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Thread: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Won't bother to reply to your rant, Walls.
    You accuse me of much in your determination to stick to the 'Two Peoples, Two Promises' doctrine. Dreamed up solely to support the false 'rapture to heaven' of the Church fable.

    Sure; there are two peoples; those who love God and accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and the majority of the world who don't.
    Those people who call themselves Jews today; Jesus clearly says who they belong to, Revelation 3:9, and what they will be forced to do to the true people of God. Those who survive their forthcoming Judgment, that is. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Romans 1:18, +

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Won't bother to reply to your rant, Walls.
    You accuse me of much in your determination to stick to the 'Two Peoples, Two Promises' doctrine. Dreamed up solely to support the false 'rapture to heaven' of the Church fable.

    Sure; there are two peoples; those who love God and accept the atoning sacrifice of Jesus and the majority of the world who don't.
    Those people who call themselves Jews today; Jesus clearly says who they belong to, Revelation 3:9, and what they will be forced to do to the true people of God. Those who survive their forthcoming Judgment, that is. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Romans 1:18, +
    You were presented with arguments in courteous factual fashion concerning the context and grammar of Galatians 6. These, not for the first time, you have chosen to ignore. If you are unable to counter them, you should at least CONSIDER them. When our Lord Jesus' fame spread, and His works were obviously from a higher power, all the Pharisees had to do was to check the tax records of the time that Jesus was born and they would have seen that far from being from Nazareth, He was a Bethlehemite. And because nothing escapes the taxman, our Lord's genealogy from David would have at once been apparent. Likewise, you are presented with grammatical ramifications that any high school student will confirm. But you choose to ignore them.

    You wee presented with a Israel, the seed of Jacob, and the Church, the seed of the Holy Spirit. Two Peoples each with their origin - one by corruptible seed and one by incorruptible seed. One has the Law from God and one has grace from God. One has circumcision from God and one has Baptism from God. One has the Passover from God and one has the Lord's Table, equally from God. One is earthly and one is heavenly, yet both chosen and beloved of God. One persecutes the other, so great is the difference. One is under bondage of Law and the other is free. All these, and more, are set before your eyes, and yet you deny TWO PEOPLES both connected to God but totally different. Woe to the intelligent man who is shown something and refuses it because it is uncomfortable. If a doctor warned you of cancer, you would do something. If your wife warned you of smoke coming out of your car you would investigate. But when someone points out the DUALITY of God's people, you refuse all the facts because your cherished ideas are worth more than the truth.

    There is always a chance that I am wrong. But I present you with a compelling argument. As an intelligent and intellectual being, the least you are challenged to do is refute the arguments. But you ignore them. Remember then just one thing. God made a promise to Abraham and his seed, and this promised is confirmed with Abraham's seed according to the flesh - Isaac, Jacob and Jacob's seed after him (Genesis 12:7, 17:7-8, 26:3, 28:13-14, 35:12). God attached nothing else but circumcision as Abraham's, and later, Israel's part of this Covenant. It is ratified in blood and made with God's oath. If you say that this seed will NOT inherit this Land, irrespective of behavior, you make God a liar. The only single thing that can stop an Israelite from finally inheriting the Land of Canaan is if circumcision is refused. As to their behavior, have you not read in the prophets that you so liberally quote, that God will put away Israel's sins (Isa.1:18, 43:24-26, 44:22, Mic.7:18-19 and many more). You preach a God that will annihilate Israel's sinners, the Bible preaches a God Who has put away their sins by a "redeeming" Christ (Lk.1:68-69).

    It is one thing to be wrong about a given scripture. It is another to say that God will not bring the seed of Abraham according to the flesh into Canaan "for an everlasting possession", WHEN THIS GREAT GOD HAS PROMISED IT WITH AN OATH AND WALKED BETWEEN THE DIVIDED BLOOD SACRIFICES (Gen.15:17).

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is one thing to be wrong about a given scripture. It is another to say that God will not bring the seed of Abraham according to the flesh into Canaan "for an everlasting possession", WHEN THIS GREAT GOD HAS PROMISED IT WITH AN OATH AND WALKED BETWEEN THE DIVIDED BLOOD SACRIFICES (Gen.15:17).
    Please explain who exactly are the seed of Abraham now.
    You postulate, without scriptural support pertaining to todays situation, that there are two 'seeds'. One ethnic, the other Spiritual. This is in total conflict with the Words of Jesus:.... May they all be one, as we are one......John 17:20-22, Ephesians 4:4-6
    Plus we are the children of Abraham by our faith, Galatians 3:26-29 and the unbelieving Jews are cut off, Romans 11:7, because of their lack of faith and rejection of Jesus. Matthew 21:43

    The prophesies are quite clear; the holy Land will be occupied by the faithful Christian peoples only. A vast multitude of people from every tribe, race, nation and language. They will live there soon after all that area is cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Isaiah 35:1-10, Revelation 6:12-17- Revelation 7:1-14
    It is our destiny to be the people God always wanted in His Land and this time there will be no evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14

    Renounce the unscriptural notion of a 'rapture' and realize the great Promises of God will all be fulfilled thru Jesus, 1 Cor 1:20 We Christians are the inheritors, Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 3:6, Psalms 37:29 We will face testing, but those who remain firm in their faith, will be made shining white, Daniel 11:35, and will go with God into Eternity. Revelation 21:2

    We will be called the beloved, Romans 9:24-26, and our nation Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, and we will be given an new language, Zephaniah 3:9

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    There is always a chance that I am wrong. But I present you with a compelling argument. As an intelligent and intellectual being, the least you are challenged to do is refute the arguments. But you ignore them.
    Far from me ignoring the Bible truths, I write hundreds of articles about the truths of scripture. Check out; logostelos.info

    Here is one truth that you conveniently ignore: Those who were born to the Kingdom will be thrown out into the darkness, where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 8:12
    And the verse before it: Many will come from all parts of the earth to sit with the Patriarchs in the Kingdom, with the Lord. You cannot deny, that those people must be all the faithful believers; all born again Christians. John 3:3

    The 'chance that you are wrong', would make fantastic odds against you, for a betting man!

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Please explain who exactly are the seed of Abraham now.
    You postulate, without scriptural support pertaining to todays situation, that there are two 'seeds'. One ethnic, the other Spiritual. This is in total conflict with the Words of Jesus:.... May they all be one, as we are one......John 17:20-22, Ephesians 4:4-6
    Plus we are the children of Abraham by our faith, Galatians 3:26-29 and the unbelieving Jews are cut off, Romans 11:7, because of their lack of faith and rejection of Jesus. Matthew 21:43

    The prophesies are quite clear; the holy Land will be occupied by the faithful Christian peoples only. A vast multitude of people from every tribe, race, nation and language. They will live there soon after all that area is cleared and cleansed. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Isaiah 35:1-10, Revelation 6:12-17- Revelation 7:1-14
    It is our destiny to be the people God always wanted in His Land and this time there will be no evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14

    Renounce the unscriptural notion of a 'rapture' and realize the great Promises of God will all be fulfilled thru Jesus, 1 Cor 1:20 We Christians are the inheritors, Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 3:6, Psalms 37:29 We will face testing, but those who remain firm in their faith, will be made shining white, Daniel 11:35, and will go with God into Eternity. Revelation 21:2

    We will be called the beloved, Romans 9:24-26, and our nation Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, and we will be given an new language, Zephaniah 3:9
    I must commend you on your business-like answer. Here are my answers.

    John 17:20-23 does not talk of Israel. It talks of the Church. In verse 20 it is, "... them also which shall believe on me through their word". This is confirmed in verse 23; "I in them, and thou in me, ... ." The Church, as you have said, is made of every tribe and tongue and nation and culture. The Lord created these at Babylon to DIVIDE men. They must be OVERCOME if the Church is to testify of God and Christ's ONENESS.

    Whether you like it or not, there are TWO seeds. 1 Peter 1:23 says; "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." Because of Adam's transgression the male sperm is corrupted. This is ONE BIRTH by ONE specific seed. The verse then says that a man must be born AGAIN - indicating an-OTHER birth. The verse above shows it to be by an incorruptible seed. You can twist and turn as much as you like but there are two births, two seeds and two destinies. Added to this, the first birth is by the WOMB (Jn.3:4) and the second is by the Spirit (Jn.3.6). Finally, the birth is effected by the "WORD of God" and God's WORDS are "spirit and life" (Jn.6:63). The birth by the incorruptible seed is a birth by the Spirit - Spiritual.

    We are seed of Abraham by the vehicle of FAITH. But it is FAITH IN someone - Jesus. This faith causes us to proceed OUT OF HIM like Eve out of Adam. Thus, we gain our POSITION IN Christ by Faith and our POSITION IN Christ makes us seed of Abraham by default - just as Charles of England was IN his mother, and she was the sovereign. Charles, even before he was born was in line for the throne without having done a single thing. So too those IN Christ. Because Christ is seed of Abraham, so also are those who are IN Him.

    Unbelieveing Israel are cut out of the Olive Tree BUT WILL BE GRAFTED IN AGAIN! You left that part out.

    Matthew 21:43 shows that Israel had forfeited the "Kingdom of Heaven" - NOT the Land of Canaan.

    Not once in this thread have I used the Rapture. So quit making a smoke screen. Let's stick to the argument.

    The Great multitude of Revelation 7 stand before the Lamb in HEAVEN. The Angels, the Four Creatures and the 24 Elders are HEAVENLY. See Chapter 4.

    Ezekiel Chapter 37, which we discuss, concerns "the whole House of Israel" - not the Church. The Church was not yet revealed to the prophets of old. Furthermore, in Luke 19:17-19 the overcoming Christians will be made kings over cities. How can they dwell in Canaan? The king of Santiago de Chile will have a hard time managing his city from Canaan. He will be accused of neglecting his duty.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I must commend you on your business-like answer. Here are my answers.

    John 17:20-23 does not talk of Israel. It talks of the Church. In verse 20 it is, "... them also which shall believe on me through their word". This is confirmed in verse 23; "I in them, and thou in me, ... ." The Church, as you have said, is made of every tribe and tongue and nation and culture. The Lord created these at Babylon to DIVIDE men. They must be OVERCOME if the Church is to testify of God and Christ's ONENESS.

    Whether you like it or not, there are TWO seeds. 1 Peter 1:23 says; "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." Because of Adam's transgression the male sperm is corrupted. This is ONE BIRTH by ONE specific seed. The verse then says that a man must be born AGAIN - indicating an-OTHER birth. The verse above shows it to be by an incorruptible seed. You can twist and turn as much as you like but there are two births, two seeds and two destinies. Added to this, the first birth is by the WOMB (Jn.3:4) and the second is by the Spirit (Jn.3.6). Finally, the birth is effected by the "WORD of God" and God's WORDS are "spirit and life" (Jn.6:63). The birth by the incorruptible seed is a birth by the Spirit - Spiritual.

    We are seed of Abraham by the vehicle of FAITH. But it is FAITH IN someone - Jesus. This faith causes us to proceed OUT OF HIM like Eve out of Adam. Thus, we gain our POSITION IN Christ by Faith and our POSITION IN Christ makes us seed of Abraham by default - just as Charles of England was IN his mother, and she was the sovereign. Charles, even before he was born was in line for the throne without having done a single thing. So too those IN Christ. Because Christ is seed of Abraham, so also are those who are IN Him.

    Unbelieveing Israel are cut out of the Olive Tree BUT WILL BE GRAFTED IN AGAIN! You left that part out.

    Matthew 21:43 shows that Israel had forfeited the "Kingdom of Heaven" - NOT the Land of Canaan.

    Not once in this thread have I used the Rapture. So quit making a smoke screen. Let's stick to the argument.

    The Great multitude of Revelation 7 stand before the Lamb in HEAVEN. The Angels, the Four Creatures and the 24 Elders are HEAVENLY. See Chapter 4.

    Ezekiel Chapter 37, which we discuss, concerns "the whole House of Israel" - not the Church. The Church was not yet revealed to the prophets of old. Furthermore, in Luke 19:17-19 the overcoming Christians will be made kings over cities. How can they dwell in Canaan? The king of Santiago de Chile will have a hard time managing his city from Canaan. He will be accused of neglecting his duty.
    Any commendation is nice, thanks.

    You insist on 'two Seeds'. We know how God sees His Spiritual people, but how does He differentiate true descendants of Jacob, when after 100+ generations have passed? The mathematics of genetic inheritance proves that everyone alive today has some of his genes.

    Re; the Olive Tree. This metaphoric example says that some of the branches were cut off - the Jews, just leaving the few thousand who did accept Jesus. Romans 11:17 Those removed can be grafted in again and we see that in the Messianic Jews today. v24
    But the majority of them do not convert and remain in apostasy. Many prophesies attest to their destruction. Romans 9:27
    What Paul says in Romans 11:25, ...the whole of Israel will be saved.....does not mean every Jew, but every Overcomer for God, His true Israelite people, all born again Christians.

    Matthew 21:43 plainly states that the Jews have lost their status and have lost the Kingdom. My Bible says Kingdom of God, I believe it to mean the coming Kingdom of the Millennium.

    Rapture. A very contentious issue. I know you believe it will happen and that belief colors your thinking in most other issues. It is why you must have the Jews on earth, being tried and tested, while you go to heaven. A very pretentious and contentious doctrine.

    Revelation 7 is a chapter that describes earthly events, from soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, to Eternity, v15-17, when God will dwell with mankind. Proved by the first 3 verses setting an earthly scene and by the vast multitude of Christians in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 5:9-10
    You have nothing other than speculation for thinking they are in heaven. Rev 4 is in heaven, but Rev 7 is on earth.

    The 'whole House of Israel', which includes people of the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin, is everyone who will receive the outpouring of God's Spirit in the end times. Current ethnicity has nothing to do with it. Ephesians 2:11-18
    We Christians will know the Lord is with us, in the same way as He was for ancient Israel. He will approach our leaders, as He did with Moses and David. Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Any commendation is nice, thanks.

    You insist on 'two Seeds'. We know how God sees His Spiritual people, but how does He differentiate true descendants of Jacob, when after 100+ generations have passed? The mathematics of genetic inheritance proves that everyone alive today has some of his genes.

    Re; the Olive Tree. This metaphoric example says that some of the branches were cut off - the Jews, just leaving the few thousand who did accept Jesus. Romans 11:17 Those removed can be grafted in again and we see that in the Messianic Jews today. v24
    But the majority of them do not convert and remain in apostasy. Many prophesies attest to their destruction. Romans 9:27
    What Paul says in Romans 11:25, ...the whole of Israel will be saved.....does not mean every Jew, but every Overcomer for God, His true Israelite people, all born again Christians.

    Matthew 21:43 plainly states that the Jews have lost their status and have lost the Kingdom. My Bible says Kingdom of God, I believe it to mean the coming Kingdom of the Millennium.

    Rapture. A very contentious issue. I know you believe it will happen and that belief colors your thinking in most other issues. It is why you must have the Jews on earth, being tried and tested, while you go to heaven. A very pretentious and contentious doctrine.

    Revelation 7 is a chapter that describes earthly events, from soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, to Eternity, v15-17, when God will dwell with mankind. Proved by the first 3 verses setting an earthly scene and by the vast multitude of Christians in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 5:9-10
    You have nothing other than speculation for thinking they are in heaven. Rev 4 is in heaven, but Rev 7 is on earth.

    The 'whole House of Israel', which includes people of the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin, is everyone who will receive the outpouring of God's Spirit in the end times. Current ethnicity has nothing to do with it. Ephesians 2:11-18
    We Christians will know the Lord is with us, in the same way as He was for ancient Israel. He will approach our leaders, as He did with Moses and David. Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21
    OK. Thanks for the exchange. I have nothing to add. Go well and God bless.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    We Christians ARE the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16
    Gal 6:14* But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.*
    Gal 6:15* For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.*
    Gal 6:16* And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.*

    Nowhere does this say that Christians ARE the Israel of God.
    It says that being a NEW creation, and therefore not OF Israel or any other nation is what counts.

    Not only that, but the mathematics of genetic inheritance proves that every person alive today has some of Abrahams genes.
    Actually it doesn't.
    The mathematics used to show this is akin to that used by Evolutionists to supposedly show that life comes out of non-life.
    All it proves is that it could potentially be possible.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Role Reversal:
    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    However, it is only a few of the many generations of believers since the time of Jesus, who have understood the truth of how the amazing role reversals in God’s great plan have unfolded in world history. Consider; Jacob - Esau, Joseph - Reuben.
    The majority who have been taught only part of the Gospel, now naively believe that Israel, namely the Jewish people as an ethnic group still have a place in God’s plan and the Christians will be removed to safety.
    Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Amos 2:4-5

    As everyone knows, the Jewish nation refused the leadership of Jesus Christ. Despite the fact of the free gift of the Lord’s unmerited favour being now available to all peoples, many Christians refuse to accept any termination of God’s grace towards physical Israel, instead insisting the salvation of all the Jews in Christ will happen when Jesus Returns. They do this because the separation of Israel and the Church is an immutable tenet of the rapture theory.
    But the Old Testament prophets stated the redemption of the remnant of Israel was to happen in a way that would cause the roles to reverse when it occurred.
    In the passage that speaks of Israel as the “clay” and the Lord as the “potter,” Jeremiah 18:1-6, saw how the Lord was going to reconfigure Israel from a flesh and blood family into a spiritual entity, through Jesus. John 3:16
    Romans 9:8…It isn’t the children of Abraham by natural descent who are the people of God, but all those born into God’s Promise, Jesus, who are the true children of faith.

    Isaiah 29:14-16 & Habakkuk 1:5 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a great work and a wonder…Surely Your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? You will not believe this work when you are told of it.
    The “work”, or the object of the potter’s effort, was the advent of Jesus and His atoning sacrifice for all people and it was performed to fulfill God’s promise to bring about the spiritual Israel of God, consisting of individuals from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10

    As the Apostle Paul spoke Romans 9:21 to the Jews who rejected the salvation offered by Jesus, he indicated the long prophesied role reversal, in which the Lord’s chosen people transitioned from an earthly family to a Spiritual body, had occurred in the astonishing life of the carpenter from Nazareth: Matthew 28:19
    Acts 13:26-27 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you fears God, to you is the Word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every Sabbath day, that they have fulfilled those prophesies in condemning Jesus.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Role Reversal:
    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    However, it is only a few of the many generations of believers since the time of Jesus, who have understood the truth of how the amazing role reversals in God’s great plan have unfolded in world history. Consider; Jacob - Esau, Joseph - Reuben.
    The majority who have been taught only part of the Gospel, now naively believe that Israel, namely the Jewish people as an ethnic group still have a place in God’s plan and the Christians will be removed to safety.
    Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Amos 2:4-5

    As everyone knows, the Jewish nation refused the leadership of Jesus Christ. Despite the fact of the free gift of the Lord’s unmerited favour being now available to all peoples, many Christians refuse to accept any termination of God’s grace towards physical Israel, instead insisting the salvation of all the Jews in Christ will happen when Jesus Returns. They do this because the separation of Israel and the Church is an immutable tenet of the rapture theory.
    But the Old Testament prophets stated the redemption of the remnant of Israel was to happen in a way that would cause the roles to reverse when it occurred.
    In the passage that speaks of Israel as the “clay” and the Lord as the “potter,” Jeremiah 18:1-6, saw how the Lord was going to reconfigure Israel from a flesh and blood family into a spiritual entity, through Jesus. John 3:16
    Romans 9:8…It isn’t the children of Abraham by natural descent who are the people of God, but all those born into God’s Promise, Jesus, who are the true children of faith.

    Isaiah 29:14-16 & Habakkuk 1:5 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a great work and a wonder…Surely Your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? You will not believe this work when you are told of it.
    The “work”, or the object of the potter’s effort, was the advent of Jesus and His atoning sacrifice for all people and it was performed to fulfill God’s promise to bring about the spiritual Israel of God, consisting of individuals from every race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10

    As the Apostle Paul spoke Romans 9:21 to the Jews who rejected the salvation offered by Jesus, he indicated the long prophesied role reversal, in which the Lord’s chosen people transitioned from an earthly family to a Spiritual body, had occurred in the astonishing life of the carpenter from Nazareth: Matthew 28:19
    Acts 13:26-27 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you fears God, to you is the Word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every Sabbath day, that they have fulfilled those prophesies in condemning Jesus.
    In your attempt to discredit any rapture of the Church, you have allowed it to discolor you view of the rest of the Bible. Whether there is a rapture of the Church or not, it does not touch Israel and what the prophets have predicted concerning it. Your opening verse to somehow prove a "role reversal" is a scripture that addresses who salvation by Jesus Christ is available for - that is, Jew AND Greek. But the prophets of old do not discuss this. Ezekiel 37 addresses the NATION of Israel - "the whole House of Israel" - NOT the House of God. You interject scriptures about salvation, but that is something entirely different. You purposely have left out then the destiny of the Jew who refuses Christ - as the bulk did. You have not addressed any scripture about that people who, "... blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25). You have not addressed those who Paul called, "... my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Romans 9:3-4). Concerning "the Covenants" and "the Promises", have you not read in Galatians 3:17 that, "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

    In your zeal to annihilate Israel from God's plan, you inadvertently make God a breaker of both COVENANT and PROMISE. The Covenant of Promise was not made with the SEED of the Holy Spirit. It was made with Abraham and HIS seed - that is, human seed for propagating men. This is confirmed by God confirming His Covenant of Promise to Isaac and Jacob and a nation of then 2 million strong (Ex.2:24) - human seed of Abraham. And Zacharias, under inspiration in Luke Chapter 1, confirms this Covenant again with Jesus present in Mary's womb - 2,000 years later.

    The question is NOT, is there salvation or not for Israel? The question is, "what is the destiny of those Israelites, who are under Covenant, but who refuse Christ?" Does refusal of one's King change a Covenant? Does lawlessness change a Covenant made 430 years before Law was given? Do the prophets prophesy in vain because of "partial blindness" that remains ONLY till the times of the gentiles are full? In the Millennium we have the nations (Zech.14:16, etc.). Does the leading nation, who has a Covenant of Promise, where their only duty is circumcision, cease to exist? Perish the thought! The prophets of both Testaments predict Israel restored as a whole People, with all those who have died resurrected, and all who were circumcised returned to their Land as an "everlasting possession" AS PER THE COVENANT THAT GOD MADE WITH AN OATH.

    Galatians Chapter 3, that you so like to quote, is NOT about rebirth, salvation from doom, and having eternal life. It is a Chapter that shows how ex-Gentiles who have embraced Christ are legally made "seed of Abraham" to make them eligible to inherit the earth. God does not make a New Covenant to embrace ex-Gentiles who are now IN Christ. He puts them IN Christ and because Christ is a Seed of Abraham, these ex-Gentiles become seed of Abraham by POSITION IN CHRIST.

    The modern press is the sum of all evil. Why? They report on only that which they desire. They claim a freedom to INFORM people. But by their one-sidedness, they only FORM people's opinions. Don't be like them. Address salvation by faith in Jesus, and ALSO address what happens to those people who have a binding Covenant with God, but who, through partial and temporary blindness, refused Christ. Be fair. Be honest.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Gal 6:14* But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.*
    Gal 6:15* For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.*
    Gal 6:16* And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.*

    Nowhere does this say that Christians ARE the Israel of God.
    It says that being a NEW creation, and therefore not OF Israel or any other nation is what counts.


    Actually it doesn't.
    The mathematics used to show this is akin to that used by Evolutionists to supposedly show that life comes out of non-life.
    All it proves is that it could potentially be possible.
    The meaning of the Hebrew word; Israel, is simply; an overcomer for God. As Jacob was and as we Christians are today. His Victorious ones, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation.
    It is just pedantic to demand that the appellation of Israel be confined to those few people who call themselves the Jewish State of Israel.

    Re Genetics: One thing is for sure; the Jewish people are not the only people who [may] have descent from Jacob. God's secret, is the whereabouts of the 10 Northern tribes.
    That they still exist, is plain from the prophesied Blessings they were to receive. God does know who they all are, Amos 9:9 and it is very logical to believe they are mainly the Christian peoples of today.

    Good effort, Walls!
    Just one thing; a Covenant is between two and if one party renounces their commitment, then it is annulled. The Jews did that; Matthew 27:25
    Read Matthew 8:10-12, then Luke 12:32

  12. #57
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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The meaning of the Hebrew word; Israel, is simply; an overcomer for God. As Jacob was and as we Christians are today. His Victorious ones, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation.
    It is just pedantic to demand that the appellation of Israel be confined to those few people who call themselves the Jewish State of Israel.
    I don't confine it to the Jewish State of Israel.
    However it is used as a genetic appellation, for those who are descended of the man who was given the name Israel.

    Re Genetics: One thing is for sure; the Jewish people are not the only people who [may] have descent from Jacob. God's secret, is the whereabouts of the 10 Northern tribes.
    That they still exist, is plain from the prophesied Blessings they were to receive. God does know who they all are, Amos 9:9 and it is very logical to believe they are mainly the Christian peoples of today.
    You mean can people have the blood of Jacob in the veins, who are not consider part of the tribes of Israel.
    Some would point to the Samaritans.
    However this is not the same as saying that anyone in the world can have this blood.
    It is not logical to believe they are the Christian people of the world, partly because Christians are to be of every tribe tongue and nation, and not limited to the 12 (or 10) tribes.

    Good effort, Walls!
    Just one thing; a Covenant is between two and if one party renounces their commitment, then it is annulled. The Jews did that; Matthew 27:25
    Read Matthew 8:10-12, then Luke 12:32
    Nope, one party cannot annul a Covenant. They may chose not to follow it, but most Covenants have consequences for no longer following them.
    God stated certain things in Leviticus about this.

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    Re: Ezekiel 37 fulfilled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The meaning of the Hebrew word; Israel, is simply; an overcomer for God. As Jacob was and as we Christians are today. His Victorious ones, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation.
    It is just pedantic to demand that the appellation of Israel be confined to those few people who call themselves the Jewish State of Israel.

    Re Genetics: One thing is for sure; the Jewish people are not the only people who [may] have descent from Jacob. God's secret, is the whereabouts of the 10 Northern tribes.
    That they still exist, is plain from the prophesied Blessings they were to receive. God does know who they all are, Amos 9:9 and it is very logical to believe they are mainly the Christian peoples of today.

    Good effort, Walls!
    Just one thing; a Covenant is between two and if one party renounces their commitment, then it is annulled. The Jews did that; Matthew 27:25
    Read Matthew 8:10-12, then Luke 12:32
    Keraz says; "Just one thing; a Covenant is between two and if one party renounces their commitment, then it is annulled. The Jews did that;"

    God says; "Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto." (Galatians 3:15)

    Besides which, have you ever met a Jew who would annul a Covenant for Canaan? It is their deepest aspiration!

    And I am beginning to wonder. The 10 northern Tribes are the SEED OF JACOB. Christians are BORN of the Holy Spirit. Ezekiel 37 pointedly shows the destiny of the 10 northern Tribes. They belong to the "whole House of Israel" not the Church. Do you know the difference between a man born of corruptible seed and a man born of incorruptible seed? Do you know what the rebirth is?

    Matthew 27:25 tells of Israel accepting an innocent man's blood - not annulling a Covenant that Promises them their Land.

    Matthew 8:10-12 deals with Israel refusing THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN - not a return to their Land

    Luke 12:32 addresses THE CHURCH concerning THE KINGDOM. The text starts in verse 22. "And he said unto his disciples, ... 32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."

    • God made man to be kings of the earth (Gen.1.26-28).
    • God placed man in front of the Tree of Life so that this man would eat and become organically one with God's Life.
    • By ruling with God's Life man would bring God's will to earth - the Kingdom (out) of Heaven
    • Man failed yet God gave a select nation the Kingdom of ISRAEL
    • Our Lord Jesus, seed of David is KING of the Jews
    • God offered the Kingdom of Heaven to the Kingdom of Israel. They refused it and LOST THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
    • God gave the Law to prolong the Kingdom of ISRAEL. Israel broke the Law and LOST THE KINGDOM OF ISRAEL
    • God PROMISED to give Israel Land of Canaan with a KING to rule over them. This they get in Ezekiel 37:23-25 (see also Jer.30:9, Ezek.34:23 and Hos.3:5)
    • God can legally put away Israel's sins because of their Lamb (Jn.1:29; 1st Jn.2:2)
    • God will give the KINGDOM OF ISRAEL back, but NOT the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN
    • The KINGDOM OF HEAVEN needs rebirth by the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:3-5). The KINGDOM OF ISRAEL needs birth from Jacob
    • The KINGDOM OF ISRAEL and the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN are TWO DIFFERENT KINGDOMS. One rules Israel under Law, and one rules the earth with a rod of iron
    • The KINGDOM of ISRAEL will be given to ALL ISRAEL. The KINGDOM of HEAVEN will only be given to overcoming Chrstians
    • The KINGDOM OF ISRAEL will be ruled by Christians - (i) Christ, (ii) David and (iii) the Twelve Apostles. The KINGDOM out OF HEAVEN will be ruled by (i) Christ and (ii) the Overcoming Christians. It is THIS SETUP THAT THE OLIVE TREE DEPICTS!

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