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Thread: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

  1. #16
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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Six times sacrifice is used in Dan. Five of the six are prefaced by the word "daily". The verses which denoted "daily" sacrifice are clearly pertaining to the Beast and him taking doing away with it. There is one verse which does not is in Dan 9.
    Are you talking in Hebrew or English?
    In Dan 9 the word used is:
    H2077
    זבח
    zebach

    In Dan 8 there is NO word sacrifice used, ONLY the word "daily":
    H8548
    תּמיד
    tâmı̂yd

    The same in 8:11, 12 and 13.
    Also in Dan 11:31 and 12:11 it also only uses the word for "daily" and no actual usage of sacrifice.
    Dan 8 and 11 clearly refer to Antiochus 4 Epiphanes.
    Dan 9 though mentions sacrifice and offerings:
    H4503
    מנחה
    minchâh

    This does NOT support the idea that it is not sacrifice by Jews.
    Why not?
    Jer 33:18* and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever.”

    Here the sacrifices mentioned is the same word as that in Dan 9:27.

    Isa 19:21* And the LORD will make himself known to the Egyptians, and the Egyptians will know the LORD in that day and worship with sacrifice and offering, and they will make vows to the LORD and perform them.

    Again this matches Dan 9:27, with sacrifice and offering.

    Of course we find it here:
    Exo 20:24* An altar of earth you shall make for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen. In every place where I cause my name to be remembered I will come to you and bless you.

    This verse combines the sacrifice mentioned in Dan 9 with the idea of the other offerings for God.

    Furthermore, the "he" in the text needs to be constant noun. Thus the one which confirms the covenant is the same which causes the sacrifice to cease. God confirms the covenant to Israel in which was Daniel's prayer in the first part of the chapter. In addition, even if you wrongly conclude the AC signs some peace treaty and make the AC the constant noun you then have the AC making it desolate due to his own abominations?
    The AC does make things desolate UNTIL God makes the desolator desolate.

    When studied without previous bias towards the text the evidence is clear.
    Actually when studied with the USAGE as found throughout scripture we find that the evidence is clear.
    This is speaking about the sacrifices made at the temple.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually when studied with the USAGE as found throughout scripture we find that the evidence is clear.

    Could you provide your full interpretation of verse 27. Thanks.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Could you provide your full interpretation of verse 27. Thanks.
    Dan 9:27* And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”*(ESV)

    I will substitute as an explanation:

    Dan 9:27* And the prince of the people shall make a strong covenant with the ten kings for seven years, after around 3 and a half years the prince of the people will kill the two witnesses and enter the temple and declare himself as god and shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come the prince who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the prince who has made desolate.”*

    Hopefully this is clear enough.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    But, Dan. 9:27 actually says « And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one seven ... », so this is neither of the Covenants God made with Israel, hence a new different — false if you will — covenant. Please note the words of the Lord Jesus which He says in John 5:43 « I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive ».

    Aristarkos
    Even if it is not the Abrahamic Covenant in view, it is still only with the Hebrew people. But given the tensions of today, the Abrahamic Covenant is the best candidate, especially as it pertains to the land. I am convinced that the AC will be providing a protection guaranty that the Hebrew people will have the land as promised to Abraham and protection from their enemies. If one looks at almost all the so-called "peace in the middle east" stuff, it always seems to center around land and Jerusalem. Especially Jerusalem being divided, which YHVH abhors.

    Daniel 11:39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.

    Ezekiel 36:5 therefore thus says the Lord God: “Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a possession, with wholehearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.

    Again...it is for Daniel's people, the Hebrews....

    Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined
    For your people and for your holy city,
    To finish the transgression,
    To make an end of sins,
    To make reconciliation for iniquity,
    To bring in everlasting righteousness,
    To seal up vision and prophecy,
    And to anoint the Most Holy.

    Some have speculated that the 3 nations that are subdued by the AC early on is Egypt, Ethiopia, and Jordan. If that is the case, the AC would be able to provide protection from south and west. And it has been speculated that the AC is from the tribe of Dan and the Danite territory was the area of Golan Heights and Syria. If that is His main area of control, then that would mean a complete encirclement of control around Israel and the guarantee of protection.

    But I am sure we will all find out soon enough.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    Even if it is not the Abrahamic Covenant in view, it is still only with the Hebrew people. But given the tensions of today, the Abrahamic Covenant is the best candidate, especially as it pertains to the land. I am convinced that the AC will be providing a protection guaranty that the Hebrew people will have the land as promised to Abraham and protection from their enemies. If one looks at almost all the so-called "peace in the middle east" stuff, it always seems to center around land and Jerusalem. Especially Jerusalem being divided, which YHVH abhors.

    Daniel 11:39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.

    Ezekiel 36:5 therefore thus says the Lord God: “Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a possession, with wholehearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.

    Again...it is for Daniel's people, the Hebrews....

    Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks are determined
    For your people and for your holy city,
    To finish the transgression,
    To make an end of sins,
    To make reconciliation for iniquity,
    To bring in everlasting righteousness,
    To seal up vision and prophecy,
    And to anoint the Most Holy.

    Some have speculated that the 3 nations that are subdued by the AC early on is Egypt, Ethiopia, and Jordan. If that is the case, the AC would be able to provide protection from south and west. And it has been speculated that the AC is from the tribe of Dan and the Danite territory was the area of Golan Heights and Syria. If that is His main area of control, then that would mean a complete encirclement of control around Israel and the guarantee of protection.

    But I am sure we will all find out soon enough.
    Thank you for your reply Cliff. Not sure what to think of it, especially since I never even hinted the covenant the Antichrist will make was with any other nation then the Israelite. Covenants can be made between two of any groups, or made between two individuals. To see examples of this see Gen. 15:8 where the Lord makes a covenant with Abraham, Gen. 21:27 where Abraham makes a covenant with Abimelech and Exo. 24:8 where the Lord makes a covenant with the whole nation of Israel. All three are called a « covenant », all three are different.

    The « antichrist » is he who comes in Christ's name, you are well aware « anti » in Greek means « in [the] place of », he will come in place of Christ. Since the Israelite at that time will believe he is the christ, with him they will make a covenant. The fact it says it is for one seven, should tell you it can not be the Abrahamic covenant which is « for ever », or in other words in the aion to come. I'll re-quote my post for you, maybe it makes more sense now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    But, Dan. 9:27 actually says « And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one seven ... », so this is neither of the Covenants God made with Israel, hence a new different — false if you will — covenant. Please note the words of the Lord Jesus which He says in John 5:43 « I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive ».
    Aristarkos

  6. #21
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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    Even if it is not the Abrahamic Covenant in view, it is still only with the Hebrew people. But given the tensions of today, the Abrahamic Covenant is the best candidate, especially as it pertains to the land.
    Yes. agree.

    I am convinced that the AC will be providing a protection guaranty that the Hebrew people will have the land as promised to Abraham and protection from their enemies. If one looks at almost all the so-called "peace in the middle east" stuff, it always seems to center around land and Jerusalem. Especially Jerusalem being divided, which YHVH abhors.

    Some have speculated that the 3 nations that are subdued by the AC early on is Egypt, Ethiopia, and Jordan. If that is the case, the AC would be able to provide protection from south and west. And it has been speculated that the AC is from the tribe of Dan and the Danite territory was the area of Golan Heights and Syria. If that is His main area of control, then that would mean a complete encirclement of control around Israel and the guarantee of protection.
    Do the horns of the beasts give us a clue? In Rev 13 there are a total of 12 horns, 10 in the first and 2 in the second....um. Red flag! Not only 12 horns to represent the 12 tribes of Israel, but divided 10/2. The second beast has two horns so would he not be a lamb from the tribe of Judah?

    So it appears the beast has control over Israel until the end whereby they rebel onto the beast.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Do the horns of the beasts give us a clue? In Rev 13 there are a total of 12 horns, 10 in the first and 2 in the second....um. Red flag!
    The ten horns are explained as ten kings and their kingdoms which exist for the time period the beast exists. The horns of the false prophet are not explained at all, and are simply not kings and kingdoms as the FP beast is a person, while the first beast is a global government made up of smaller kingdoms. It is therefore wrong to count all the horns together and given them a different significance than what Rev says they are.

    The ten king don't even have kingdoms until the beast is in power so clearly they can't represent ten tribes of Israel.

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The ten king don't even have kingdoms until the beast is in power so clearly they can't represent ten tribes of Israel.


    I am not sure your understanding the landscape of events. The global environment will not be what you picture today. So you need to get that thought straight. There will be no USA, no Russia, no China, no Israel when this kingdom of the first beast comes upon the earth. It will a kingdom rising up in the wilderness, the world is a wilderness due to world wide catastrophe (Matt 24, 6,7). After this a king will rule which will have control over the gentiles and over those whom call themselves Jews. So it is a restart aka when Christ returns there is no country just a kingdom.

    The 12 horns of the beasts in Rev 13 are to represent Israel. Now the question is are they the real 144,000 which God has then sealed who align with the beast or those claiming to be Jews whom are not, a counterfeit 144,000? requardless the 12 horns represent Israel nothing else.

    while the first beast is a global government made up of smaller kingdoms.
    The first beast represent the last future kingdom to be on earth. It is a kingdom of Satan up from the sea (hell beneath the water). It is the described in Dan 7. It will appear AFTER the world has become a wilderness, a phonix arising from the ashes.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I am not sure your understanding the landscape of events.
    How can I not when I am going by what scripture states? It shows you to be wrong. The ten horns cannot represent any of the 12 tribes because they don't even exist yet and will only exist a short time. Until your views line up with what scripture states it will continue to be wrong.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The ten horns cannot represent any of the 12 tribes because they don't even exist yet and will only exist a short time.
    It does not say they do not exist prior just that they have not yet received a kingdom. They could have existed but with no kingdom.

    And we see they are identified before this hour Rev 7!!!

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    It does not say they do not exist prior just that they have not yet received a kingdom. They could have existed but with no kingdom.
    A king isn't a king unless there is a dominion of the king and either way, that would be a singular person not an entire tribe. Your idea simply doesn't work.

    Also, they cannot exist as kings alone anyways:

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    Whoever they are, they are not kings nor have kingdoms before the beast rises. The beast makes them kings and gives them kingdoms.

    And we see they are identified before this hour Rev 7!!!
    No, those aren't the kings who only become kings with the beast. Neither the 12 tribes nor the 12k people of each tribe are remotely related to the ten horns of the beast or the lamb's horns of the FP.

    It's just a bad interpretation based solely on the number 12.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It's just a bad interpretation based solely on the number 12.
    God has 7 churches

    God has 12 tribes

    Satan has 7 heads

    Satan has 12 horns

    My dear Watson.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    God has 7 churches
    No, he has one church. Man has more due to denominations and bad teachings.

    Satan has 7 heads
    No, he is the dragon and the beast is something else he controls.

    Satan has 12 horns
    He has no horns.

    My dear Watson.
    Sherlock Holmes is not a real person nor is your interpretation real
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, he has one church. Man has more due to denominations and bad teachings.
    One church 7 parts.

    12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
    20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

    No, he is the dragon and the beast is something else he controls.
    He does not want to control the church? What else are the 7 heads?

    He has no horns.
    6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

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    Re: Did you know it will be God's sacrifice which shall cease in Dan 9:27

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    One church 7 parts.
    No. The 7 churches in Rev were just 7 well known churches which the book of Rev was to be sent to. Some were doing well, some were not.




    He does not want to control the church? What else are the 7 heads?
    The 7 heads are 7 mountains in which ten kingdoms are located. That's the government Satan controls which will rule the world for the trib.

    6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
    You are just finding the number 7 in various places and thinking that they must somehow be the same things based on the number alone. No exegesis based on that is going to produce good fruit.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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