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Thread: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

  1. #16
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    This isn't actually correct. The ruling was a declaratory judgment not an injunction. The government doesn't have to make any changes at all to Selective Service ( The Draft ) because of it.
    That's why no one is saying it will have to go to the Supreme Court. Even the lawyer for the group who brought this to court admitted that it's nothing but a symbolic gesture.
    But you wrote earlier that you didn't have a problem with women being drafted (against their will)! So long as exceptions were made, i.e. with young children.
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    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
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  2. #17
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    But you wrote earlier that you didn't have a problem with women being drafted (against their will)! So long as exceptions were made, i.e. with young children.
    I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as their were exceptions on who could be drafted and what roles they could be drafted into. That doesn't change the fact that this ruling was a declaratory judgment not an injunction.
    The problem those who don't agree with it have is that if they contest it legally they run the risk of it going to the S.C. and having them rule that excluding women from the draft is unconstitutional.

    If that happened the government would have to make changes to Selective Service and draft women - if - another draft was ever needed.
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  3. #18
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as their were exceptions on who could be drafted and what roles they could be drafted into. That doesn't change the fact that this ruling was a declaratory judgment not an injunction.
    The problem those who don't agree with it have is that if they contest it legally they run the risk of it going to the S.C. and having them rule that excluding women from the draft is unconstitutional.

    If that happened the government would have to make changes to Selective Service and draft women - if - another draft was ever needed.
    I have a big problem with any woman being forced to enter a draft. IMO, it is not what this country has ever been about, nor what our constitution is about, nor what scripture is about.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I have a big problem with any woman being forced to enter a draft. IMO, it is not what this country has ever been about, nor what our constitution is about, nor what scripture is about.
    I'm perfectly fine with you having that position and I fully understand why you would have it.

    Let's get to the meat of it. The Military Selective Service Act specifically states that it is males who will be required to register for the draft and makes no mention ( that I can see ) of females whatsoever.
    The Supreme Court would have to rule that excluding females from a draft would be somehow unconstitutional before any changes would be made. I don't really see that happening do you?
    If RGB dies or retires before Trump is out of office ( and hopefully he gets elected again ) he'll get yet another S.C. justice and that will virtually guarantee that it won't happen.

    I honestly wouldn't get too worked up over this brother.
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  5. #20
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    The implications that forming co-ed combat units could have would be impossible to calculate until you actually did it and I could almost guarantee you that it would reduce the effectiveness of a combat unit. Not necessarily because of a woman's lessened strength either. There are social and psychological reasons that wouldn't be discovered until it was actually done. This is my opinion of course and there isn't any real data to back it up.

  6. #21
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    And I know we aren't talking combat units, but that's the end of this road.

  7. #22

    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    You donít believe the Biblical concept that man and woman are created equal but ordained to carry out specific roles?
    It depends on how you are applying this, there are definite roles defined in the bible for men and women but I do not see how this relates to a draft. Could you explain what you are talking about a little more?
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  8. #23
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    It depends on how you are applying this, there are definite roles defined in the bible for men and women but I do not see how this relates to a draft. Could you explain what you are talking about a little more?
    Doesnít your Bible inform you about who goes to war?

  9. #24
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Nu? They wanted to be equal. So now they're equal.

  10. #25

    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Doesn’t your Bible inform you about who goes to war?
    It informs me who went to war in the conflicts recorded in the bible, but i'm not aware of any scripture that prohibits women from defending themselves, their families, their homes or their country. If you are aware of these kinds of scriptures please share them with me.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  11. #26
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    It informs me who went to war in the conflicts recorded in the bible, but i'm not aware of any scripture that prohibits women from defending themselves, their families, their homes or their country. If you are aware of these kinds of scriptures please share them with me.
    I agree with self defense extended to defend the homeland. I had a friend who was born in Israel and she had to go back and serve in the IDF for two years.

    The USA is somewhat different. We deploy soldiers out of country, and while that might be purposed for national security itís not even close to defending oneís homeland.

    When I was younger I had the idea that only women should be allowed to bear arms. I still think the world would be a safer place if it were...

  12. #27

    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    I agree with self defense extended to defend the homeland. I had a friend who was born in Israel and she had to go back and serve in the IDF for two years.
    Yeah I’ve had the pleasure of serving with several foreign military service member from countries with compulsory service including a few Israelis. I was always personally ambivalent about compulsory service in peace time, but by and large I found those folks served with pride and distinction even though they didn’t volunteer.

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    The USA is somewhat different. We deploy soldiers out of country, and while that might be purposed for national security it’s not even close to defending one’s homeland.
    Well, I must say it’s complicated for sure, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say that our service men and women deployed overseas are not defending their homeland. I also think that if another draft became necessary it is probably a very serious situation....well maybe.

    I’ve gathered from context clues that you served at some point in the Cold War era, I think (and I may be wrong) but the last time the draft was implemented it was ostensibly to face down communism/socialism which was promulgated as an existential threat to the homeland, do you believe that the sentiment if not the execution was a valid attempt to defend the homeland?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    When I was younger I had the idea that only women should be allowed to bear arms. I still think the world would be a safer place if it were...
    I Couldn't really say, perhaps overall gun ownership would be lower, which would reduce access, which may well be the largest contributing factor in gun violence ...so maybe.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  13. #28

    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Oh shoot, I got sidetracked,Keck Iím still not clear about what relationship you were drawing between biblical gender roles and women being eligible for the draft?
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  14. #29
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Yeah I’ve had the pleasure of serving with several foreign military service member from countries with compulsory service including a few Israelis. I was always personally ambivalent about compulsory service in peace time, but by and large I found those folks served with pride and distinction even though they didn’t volunteer.
    It's a little different in Israel where her neighbors are perpetual existential threats to Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Well, I must say it’s complicated for sure, but I wouldn’t go as far as to say that our service men and women deployed overseas are not defending their homeland. I also think that if another draft became necessary it is probably a very serious situation....well maybe.
    I'm not say that they are not defending their homeland, but there is a huge difference in defending your homeland within your borders. You lose that and you lose everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I’ve gathered from context clues that you served at some point in the Cold War era, I think (and I may be wrong) but the last time the draft was implemented it was ostensibly to face down communism/socialism which was promulgated as an existential threat to the homeland, do you believe that the sentiment if not the execution was a valid attempt to defend the homeland?
    Even that is complicated. France cowardly forced us to take sides in Vietnam by threatening to side with the Soviets if we didn't. We had military advisors in the North actually helping the Viet Minh overcome colonialist infiltration, as it was national policy after WWII to end colonialism.

    The communist narrative was an attempt to hide the truth.


    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I Couldn't really say, perhaps overall gun ownership would be lower, which would reduce access, which may well be the largest contributing factor in gun violence ...so maybe.
    I've never seen a gun do violence, so that phrase is an oxymoron to me.

    I disagree it would reduce access. I don't believe there is any data to support that it would. Restricting rights based on a theory is oppression.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

  15. #30
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    Re: Thanks to the SSM ruling, your mother, sister or wife can be drafted

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Oh shoot, I got sidetracked,Keck I’m still not clear about what relationship you were drawing between biblical gender roles and women being eligible for the draft?
    Outside of the pattern that war was exclusively fought by men, we have some Scriptures that might help:

    Numbers 1:

    1 The LORD spoke to Moses in the tent of meeting in the Desert of Sinai on the first day of the second month of the second year after the Israelites came out of Egypt. He said: 2 “Take a census of the whole Israelite community by their clans and families, listing every man by name, one by one. 3 You and Aaron are to count according to their divisions all the men in Israel who are twenty years old or more and able to serve in the army.

    This is the pattern that Joshua held to:

    Joshua 1:
    14 Your wives, your children and your livestock may stay in the land that Moses gave you east of the Jordan, but all your fighting men, ready for battle, must cross over ahead of your fellow Israelites. You are to help them 15 until the Lord gives them rest, as he has done for you, and until they too have taken possession of the land the Lord your God is giving them

    If we jump ahead to the narrative of Devorah in Judges, note that Devorah did not wield a sword. Although I thought the tent peg thing was an interesting way to dispatch someone....but that was a one off and not really battle.
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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