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Thread: the Spirit life

  1. #16
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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Here is a question I've asked people face to face when they basically explained the same as you just did. I ask, "do you feel you were an academic religious person?" I explain some of what I wrote in the other post. I'll add, application OF the Word is fruit of a relationship with God while with some, it is more a relationship with a church, a denomination and the tenets of doctrine the denom follows, or actually, with a "God" that one wants, and not with "God who is."




    Jesus does say to be like a "child" and the academics who read this "logically reason" this in a wrong way. Jesus is telling His children that as a child one is MATURE in their dependence ON HIM! Has nothing to do with being "immature" (child-like). It's all about being LIKE Him, the Son of God who was DEPENDENT on His Father, who listened to His Father, DID what the Father told Him to do. That is what Jesus means when He says to be like a child. Submit, listen to, mind, depend, adore, etc.

    A child doesn't KNOW much at all, but what they do know, they apply (prayerfully) and in a trusting dependent relationship with God, they can apply 100% of what little they actually know. AND, always a bunch of ands... the MORE childlike one is, just means the MORE mature that they are in submission/dependence, trust, etc, with God. They have MORE experience with God, not always more knowledge and as we know, experience goes a lot farther than academic knowledge ever will. Even in the secular world, wise employers will prefer an experienced worker than any academic that has little experience.

    I bet God finds it EASIER to work with Christians who are like children and in so, are mature enough to recognize His voice in greater ways and be willing to be obedient than any academic who is actually immature in relationship with God and can't recognize His voice and won't do anything CRAZY that He tells them to do.
    Couldn't agree more. Academics can completely miss true spiritual communication with God. And, I would add, it's not enough to simply talk to God, ie prayer. What's needed is an interaction between God and us, in which we hear God's word regularly, and respond to it positively.

    Again, this is not a relationship of master to slave, but rather, as father to son. We need to be like children in obedience. But we need to be like adults in making good, free decisions.

    I can't tell Christians enough. Don't listen for voices. Listen to your conscience, and make Christianity your motive in everything you do, in caring for your family, and in caring for the world. When you do this, you make spiritual plans, and check to see how God is guiding you in the process. Keeping your character right will always keep you on track.

  2. #17
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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Interesting. Thank you for that. I think my parents were as dedicated to the church as your parents were, but your parents may have had a more intimate personal relationship with God than my parents did. That my parents believed in Christ there is no question. But the real issue for me is, How much did our parents respond to the inner voice of the Holy Spirit in their daily lives?

    I was raised from birth as *every week at church* Christians. We were 100% participants, going back to my Dad's parents, who emigrated here. My dad did everything from play the organ and lead the choir to teach adult Sunday School. They believed in tithing.

    But if you know anything about Lutheranism at all, it tends to be lifeless, spiritually. I can't remember a single sermon that impressed me, although I was quite young when I attended. A few people in the congregation did, however, impress me with their faith. In my view, this was much too little, as I understand it now. I'm glad I quit in my late teens! I am, on the other hand, extremely grateful for the discipline I learned, and for the confirmation classes! And the many years of Sunday School had to give me a foundation for my Christian faith.

    As for my own personal Christianity, I knew God and talked to God, every night and at every meal for many years. I talked to God when I had problems at school, and even later, in the midst of my rebellion. I sincerely apologized to God at Communion services. I never stopped going to church as I compromised my faith outside of the church. I felt guilty, and this helped to lead me back to God, and to a complete commitment to God.

    My point is, I missed the most important aspect of Christianity in all this, which is turning my *whole life* over to Christ, listening to God's word to my heart *continually.* I had only gone to God when I needed Him. I never thought about asking Him in making important decisions in life--perhaps I was too young? But in my latter teens, as I went through a moral crisis, I found I was unable to secure victory until I completely capitulated to God's help and guidance. I call this "living in relationship with God," being subject to His word at all times. This is not a "slavery" relationship, but rather, a consultation relationship. The Holy Spirit has become a very present reality in my life, performing a "counseling" service. However, His moral authority is absolute.

    This has come home to me personally in the last few weeks, as I've watched my daughter--my only blood child--advance to her 30th birthday, only to experience divorce and hysteria. I had thought we raised her to be a Christian, and like me, she has spent almost every week of her life in church. But recently she informed us that she had only been a "nominal Christian," and only now was learning to commit fully to God. She claims her life now is more "spiritual." And one of my pastors told my wife yesterday that our daughter has "received the Spirit." This pastor has known our daughter for many years, and insisted she had really been a Christian, but simply had not "received the Spirit."

    So I suppose this is the old Pentecostal doctrine of the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit." And this is what I'm inquiring about. Sorry about the long post, but I felt your interest required I provide greater detail. Thanks for your input!
    Personally I think we would be surprised how much our parents were led of the Spirit and that they listened to those leadings.

    Lutherans and other denominations I wouldn't call them lifeless spiritually as much as I would call them a “Solemn assembly”. The Lord did call for those in scripture. The spiritual gifts did not operate though within the church... so I know what you mean... to me it was solemn.

    See now to me that is all leading of the Holy Spirit with you as a child. To me you were being lead of the Spirit to a closer relationship to God. A new hunger for being closer to God, and the Lord was there to fill that desire and hunger. I don't think you have to be Pentecostal for that to happen.

    I am glad to hear about your daughter and the Lord. The foundation laid as a child I am sure made a difference from generation to generation.

  3. #18
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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Personally I think we would be surprised how much our parents were led of the Spirit and that they listened to those leadings.

    Lutherans and other denominations I wouldn't call them lifeless spiritually as much as I would call them a “Solemn assembly”. The Lord did call for those in scripture. The spiritual gifts did not operate though within the church... so I know what you mean... to me it was solemn.

    See now to me that is all leading of the Holy Spirit with you as a child. To me you were being lead of the Spirit to a closer relationship to God. A new hunger for being closer to God, and the Lord was there to fill that desire and hunger. I don't think you have to be Pentecostal for that to happen.

    I am glad to hear about your daughter and the Lord. The foundation laid as a child I am sure made a difference from generation to generation.
    Yes, I've known the Lord my whole life. My 1st day in Children's Sunday School, on my own, without my parents, I was filled with excitement! I saw other children putting pennies in a plastic church, counting their birthdays. I felt so proud, and enjoyed the singing collectively of "Jesus loves me, this I know." I suppose it made an impact on me, since I've never forgotten it.

    Thank you for your kind thoughts. The Lutheran Church in my town was the 1st church built there by the founder of the town--at least with his help and permission. The sign over the sanctuary door, as you entered, read: "Let the whole earth keep silence before Him." I go to a Pentecostal Church now because I need a little more noise!

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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, I've known the Lord my whole life. My 1st day in Children's Sunday School, on my own, without my parents, I was filled with excitement! I saw other children putting pennies in a plastic church, counting their birthdays. I felt so proud, and enjoyed the singing collectively of "Jesus loves me, this I know." I suppose it made an impact on me, since I've never forgotten it.

    Thank you for your kind thoughts. The Lutheran Church in my town was the 1st church built there by the founder of the town--at least with his help and permission. The sign over the sanctuary door, as you entered, read: "Let the whole earth keep silence before Him." I go to a Pentecostal Church now because I need a little more noise!
    Psalms 71:5 For thou art my hope, O Lord GOD: thou art my trust from my youth.

    Your welcome, I think they are good memories. Well had to put this scripture for you. Haha I ran into it yesterday and you wanted scriptures.

    I went to a very large Lutheran church, thousands of members and 2 times for services. We had a huge church and a smaller chapel. I was married in the chapel. We also had a school that I attended. What I remember the most about church service is the adult choir and I was part of the childrens choir. I remember the church pamphlet with the whole service and hymns to be sung and when everything was done. I remember the out loud stating of the creeds and Lords prayer. It was very loud with all those people. I also remember the end of service (benediction) each time and the pastor saying this:

    Numbers 6:24-26 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

    These were my memories more than any sermon. It was all very orderly. They are good memories though and a young start with the Lord.

    My parents did take us a couple times to a full gospel church as a child. We went to see a particular evangelist. So I was exposed to that at a young age...I remember the hand clapping while singing and I remember the evangelist did not stand still! Haha I remember the altar calls. That is what I remember about that church as a child.

    My parents did come out of the Lutheran church when all of the children were raised. They did start attending full gospel churches. I think a lot of that movement started with TV evangelists though back then. I remember my parents watching Oral Roberts on TV back then.

    Interesting the things you remember as a child where the Lord was concerned. Being old now, there are still times I will say my childhood prayers as part of my prayer time with the Lord. So as I grew and my relationship became more talking with the Lord in prayer... I still now and then recite the prayers I had learned as a child, including the Lords prayer. So childhood still has an impact on me.

    I think our childhood raising is something to be happy about...it started us in a walk with the Lord. Just thought I would share my memories and the impact it still has on me to this day.

  5. #20
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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Psalms 71:5 For thou art my hope, O Lord GOD: thou art my trust from my youth.

    Your welcome, I think they are good memories. Well had to put this scripture for you. Haha I ran into it yesterday and you wanted scriptures.

    I went to a very large Lutheran church, thousands of members and 2 times for services. We had a huge church and a smaller chapel. I was married in the chapel. We also had a school that I attended. What I remember the most about church service is the adult choir and I was part of the childrens choir. I remember the church pamphlet with the whole service and hymns to be sung and when everything was done. I remember the out loud stating of the creeds and Lords prayer. It was very loud with all those people. I also remember the end of service (benediction) each time and the pastor saying this:

    Numbers 6:24-26 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

    These were my memories more than any sermon. It was all very orderly. They are good memories though and a young start with the Lord.

    My parents did take us a couple times to a full gospel church as a child. We went to see a particular evangelist. So I was exposed to that at a young age...I remember the hand clapping while singing and I remember the evangelist did not stand still! Haha I remember the altar calls. That is what I remember about that church as a child.

    My parents did come out of the Lutheran church when all of the children were raised. They did start attending full gospel churches. I think a lot of that movement started with TV evangelists though back then. I remember my parents watching Oral Roberts on TV back then.

    Interesting the things you remember as a child where the Lord was concerned. Being old now, there are still times I will say my childhood prayers as part of my prayer time with the Lord. So as I grew and my relationship became more talking with the Lord in prayer... I still now and then recite the prayers I had learned as a child, including the Lords prayer. So childhood still has an impact on me.

    I think our childhood raising is something to be happy about...it started us in a walk with the Lord. Just thought I would share my memories and the impact it still has on me to this day.
    I appreciate that. I can certainly identify! It's good to remember the good things, the eternal things...

  6. #21
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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Acts 1 & 2 use the word "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and "filled with the Holy Spirit" interchangeably. Ephesians talks about being filled with the Spirit. IMO, the baptism is real but when I am with people who don't like to call it that, I just call it "being filled" and they are fine. It happens over and over again in the Christian life or it should. It is not a one time event. But I do believe it is an event that happens after salvation.

    In John 20 (maybe it's 21 I can't remember exactly) Jesus breathed on the disciples while telling them to "receive the Holy Spirit". IMO, that was when they became indwelt. But Acts 2, is when they became filled/baptized.
    I can't stop thinking about this! Haha So I thought this was a good place to ask with the topic name, as you make it sound that this did not happen in OT. So what are your thoughts on these scriptures?

    Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

    2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    Also, what to you is this in OT and new? This link has the exact phrase “my spirit upon” these are the verses:
    https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...spirit+upon%22

    Don't you feel this is the Holy Spirit back then?

    And what about this verse, what Spirit is this talking about?
    Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

    What do you think is different about these things? Just curious as you make it sound like no one can have the Holy Spirit till after salvation.

    I would be curious to any ones thoughts on this.

  7. #22
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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    I can't stop thinking about this! Haha So I thought this was a good place to ask with the topic name, as you make it sound that this did not happen in OT. So what are your thoughts on these scriptures?

    Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

    2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    Also, what to you is this in OT and new? This link has the exact phrase “my spirit upon” these are the verses:
    https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...spirit+upon%22

    Don't you feel this is the Holy Spirit back then?

    And what about this verse, what Spirit is this talking about?
    Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

    What do you think is different about these things? Just curious as you make it sound like no one can have the Holy Spirit till after salvation.

    I would be curious to any ones thoughts on this.
    I've also had long, hard thoughts about this, since my own experience was initially Lutheran and then Pentecostal. I initially accepted, and then rejected, the Pentecostal doctrine of the necessity of speaking in tongues as being linked to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I do accept tongues, but only for those individuals so gifted.

    My current belief is that Salvation is supposed to be linked to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but not always. I lived 17 years of my early life in a nominal, but real, Christian experience. I had little knowledge of the Holy Spirit outside of prayer and reciting creeds. It was when I learned that God actually was speaking to me regularly, and that I had to respond, that I realized the Holy Spirit would be active in me regularly.

    The Scriptures says, "I give my Spirit to those who obey Me." This was true in the OT era, and is also true in the NT era. If we want a deeper Christian experience, we have to respond to the verbal word of God to our hearts. This is largely the voice of our conscience, and not an audible word from God. For some people it is on rare occasion an audible word from God. In obeying what we hear we can be filled with God's Spirit, who blesses our obedience. We experience, in many worship services, the joy of the Lord when we praise God and thus please Him in our fellowship with Him.

    The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is like a covenant of marriage. It is an initiation ceremony into our covenant with God, just like a marriage vow. As Israel entered the wilderness, and left Egypt, they were baptized into the Red Sea, and into a walk with God through the wilderness, leading to the Promised Land. In the same way we as Christians commit to Christ and to his ways. As such, we are baptized in a public ceremony to declare to the world our intention to follow Christ. The promised Holy Spirit is then with us, enabling us to be filled when we walk in obedience.

    In my experience, we do not always feel being filled with the Holy Spirit. But we are always conscious that He is there. Sometimes we feel great joy in being filled with the Spirit, at times that God chooses. This is like a married relationship with God--an intimate and real experience of God's pleasure. Enjoy!

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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I've also had long, hard thoughts about this, since my own experience was initially Lutheran and then Pentecostal. I initially accepted, and then rejected, the Pentecostal doctrine of the necessity of speaking in tongues as being linked to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. I do accept tongues, but only for those individuals so gifted.

    My current belief is that Salvation is supposed to be linked to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, but not always. I lived 17 years of my early life in a nominal, but real, Christian experience. I had little knowledge of the Holy Spirit outside of prayer and reciting creeds. It was when I learned that God actually was speaking to me regularly, and that I had to respond, that I realized the Holy Spirit would be active in me regularly.

    The Scriptures says, "I give my Spirit to those who obey Me." This was true in the OT era, and is also true in the NT era. If we want a deeper Christian experience, we have to respond to the verbal word of God to our hearts. This is largely the voice of our conscience, and not an audible word from God. For some people it is on rare occasion an audible word from God. In obeying what we hear we can be filled with God's Spirit, who blesses our obedience. We experience, in many worship services, the joy of the Lord when we praise God and thus please Him in our fellowship with Him.

    The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is like a covenant of marriage. It is an initiation ceremony into our covenant with God, just like a marriage vow. As Israel entered the wilderness, and left Egypt, they were baptized into the Red Sea, and into a walk with God through the wilderness, leading to the Promised Land. In the same way we as Christians commit to Christ and to his ways. As such, we are baptized in a public ceremony to declare to the world our intention to follow Christ. The promised Holy Spirit is then with us, enabling us to be filled when we walk in obedience.

    In my experience, we do not always feel being filled with the Holy Spirit. But we are always conscious that He is there. Sometimes we feel great joy in being filled with the Spirit, at times that God chooses. This is like a married relationship with God--an intimate and real experience of God's pleasure. Enjoy!
    I can relate to all you mention here. You're right the Lutheran church did not focus on the Holy Spirit as there is in full gospel churches. I don't remember anything about it all the time even in school. It was more a foundation of understanding about Jesus and what He did.

    I like how Paul refers to things of the spirit as being gifts in the NT and mentioning them, it truly is a gift we were blessed with. The Holy Spirit to me has specific functions even as stated like this in the OT:

    Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    To me it is part of God being with us always.

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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    I can relate to all you mention here. You're right the Lutheran church did not focus on the Holy Spirit as there is in full gospel churches. I don't remember anything about it all the time even in school. It was more a foundation of understanding about Jesus and what He did.

    I like how Paul refers to things of the spirit as being gifts in the NT and mentioning them, it truly is a gift we were blessed with. The Holy Spirit to me has specific functions even as stated like this in the OT:

    Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    To me it is part of God being with us always.
    Amen! I now see the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as being a conscious choice to follow Jesus, which is followed by God giving us His Holy Spirit. As God blessed Israel for obeying His Law, so He blesses us who choose to follow His Son Jesus.

    So our choice to follow Christ is like Israel choosing to follow Moses when he crossed the Red Sea. We do our part by choosing to obey Christ. And God does His part by giving us His Holy Spirit.

    It was sad that I for many years had little knowledge of this reciprocal relationship of God's Holy Spirit to us. However, I have it right now, and would share with others that they only need to do their part. God will do His.

    We simply have to be aware of it, and respond not just to the words of Scripture, but also, to the word of God to our heart. This personal relationship with God is the thing that constitutes our obedience to Christ. And without it, no Holy Spirit!

    If we would be pleasing to God we need to actively obey our conscience, responding to the truths about Christ. And we will know it, because we will feel the Holy Spirit respond in our lives. It will not always be a big manifestation of spiritual glory. But deep within we will always feel God is with us to the end.

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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    A verse I use during Bible study concerning being "filled by the Holy Spirit" more than once, when the Apostles and all those present (all who have already received the Holy Spirit through belief) with them prayed for boldness, the Holy Spirit filled them AGAIN... Acts 4:31

    All one has to do is go back to v8 even. Being filled in the Holy Spirit is more about the authority of God manifesting and this manifestation doesn't always have to be a supernatural miracle. Instead, it can be just what these scriptures I posted is about... boldness, an assure comfort that God is moving within oneself and any fear or any hesitation literally vanishes and what NEEDS to be spoken, is spoken. When a servant is "led" by the Holy Spirit, the POWER is obvious and is about being filled by the Holy Spirit. This can happen many times in a servants life.

    Literally, when this happens and anyone who has had this happen, will understand what I'm about to say. It is a surprise even to the one speaking and when the Holy Spirit FILLS a person for the purpose of speaking, whatever is spoken it can be like one is listening to themselves. One of the most common experiences I personally have is when people may come to an altar call and I am praying. I usually ask if there is anything specific they may want prayed about, some answer with specifics and some don't. Usually, when a person doesn't I will be praying and then, I find myself switching to a totally different topic that (as I mentioned) surprises me and at times I've literally just listened to myself speak louder and with a firm (assured) authority I don't normally pray with. Based on the sudden bursting of crying from the person I am praying over, the Holy Spirit is filling me with the SPECIFICS that needed to be spoken in prayer.

    These prayers, are ALWAYS answered in one way or another and God's blessed me and fulfills me with joy as many have informed me later how God answered the prayer. God blesses me in this simple fact, by involving me as a servant He worked through. Some have asked, HOW did I know? To God all the credit and glory. As a servant, I can only be truthful and say it's NOT me, it was all God.

    Faith is exercises and grown also.

    Praise God for how the Holy Spirit uses you in the altar calls ! It is a surprise when the Holy Spirit speaks through you but it is a good Surprise !

    About 2 decades ago I was a member of a Christian rock band . Two of the members ask me about speaking in tongues since they knew I was pentecostal . I told them I did pray in tongues . They were both Baptists but they said they both had been praying and asking God if there was something more they could have . Turns out the Lord had given both of them the gift of praying in tongues ! This was without anyone laying on hands , they just received because they were seeking .

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    Re: the Spirit life

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Praise God for how the Holy Spirit uses you in the altar calls ! It is a surprise when the Holy Spirit speaks through you but it is a good Surprise !

    About 2 decades ago I was a member of a Christian rock band . Two of the members ask me about speaking in tongues since they knew I was pentecostal . I told them I did pray in tongues . They were both Baptists but they said they both had been praying and asking God if there was something more they could have . Turns out the Lord had given both of them the gift of praying in tongues ! This was without anyone laying on hands , they just received because they were seeking .
    Yea, if one speaks in tongues, I think that may be the way it works. Pentecostals literally forced me to try to speak in tongues. They told me to "move my lips," and "let it come out." I faked it. It tried. It wasn't real. But my wife speaks in tongues. Many others speak in tongues. I don't know how it operates because it didn't happen for me.

    I went back into a room--this was back in 1971. I asked God about it, and as I prayed, my English became very eloquent, and I felt God was telling me that He can inspire any language, including English, if He wants.

    Since that time I've seen the kind of guidance Slug talked about. God knows about everybody's problems, and guides prayers. The important thing is that we walk with God. We don't have to figure out our gifts or what He wants us to have. We simply need to be walking in His Spirit, and be listening to Him.

    I don't like to pretend anything. But if we care about people we will try to help them. God can provide the means to help them.

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