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Thread: Is Satan really the god of this world?

  1. #16

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    The Devil *blinds* men, brother! The Devil also postures as a god. The Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God!

    There is no question that God controls Satan, including his deceptions and wickedness. It doesn't mean God *is* wicked--it only means that as an all-powerful Being every freedom we have is controlled and allowed by Him.

    So when Satan deceives men, it is simultaneously a blindness God is allowing to be used against men who pursue that by their own rebellion against the truth of God!

    2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
    Isaiah 29:10 10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

    Isaiah 6: 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
    9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
    10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    John 12
    37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
    38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
    39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them

    Romans 117 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
    8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
    9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
    10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Should I keep going? Please show me scripture saying the devil blinded Israel...I know the emotional argument attached to the Satan interpretation, the idea of “God would never blind someone he is good”. But we must understand this in context. First off, this is NOT saying Yahuwah is the author of their unbelief. I make sure to establish that point in my video, Yahuwah gives man freewill. He is not the author of their unbelief, instead it is because of their unbelief that Yahuwah gives them over to unbelief and hardens their heart. Because of their unbelief he hids the mysteries of the kingdom from them, as Yahuwshuwa tells his disciples the mysteries are not for the world, but for his people (those who put their faith in him).
    I’m not saying these things in a mean attitude I’m just trying to help you understand where I’m coming from.
    Shaluwm

  2. #17
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    Question Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Hello all May grace and shaluwm be upon you in the name of Yahuwshuwa our Savior.
    I know that the predominate interpretation of 2 Corinthians 4:4 is speaking of Satan, but after studying it in depth I have a problem with that interpretation.
    For the first 15 centuries of the early assembly the predominate interpretation of the Orthodox Church was that this verse is speaking about the Most High, not Satan. Only after John Calvin did this new interpretation become really poplular.
    I have a video making an argument for the older interpretation would love to start a discussion on this topic.
    https://youtu.be/w-UNDy62yA4

    When looked at in context with chapter 3, 2 Corinthians 4:4 is talking about the unbelieving Jews, and a strong argument can be made through a lot of scripture that it wasn’t the devil that blinded them, but it was the Most High.
    Do you think satan is the god of this world ?

  3. #18

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Do you think satan is the god of this world ?
    No I don’t. I believe 2 Corinthians 4:4 is speaking of Yahuwah not Satan.

  4. #19
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post

    [...]

    When looked at in context with chapter 3, 2 Corinthians 4:4 is talking about the unbelieving Jews, and a strong argument can be made through a lot of scripture that it wasn’t the devil that blinded them, but it was the Most High.
    So according to your logic, the Most High wanted blindness, they became blind (what else could they do), so they did His will, therefore they did not sin.

    For your information 2 Cor. 4:4 does not say « god of this world », but « god of this aion », the next aion he will no longer be a « god ».

    Aristarkos

  5. #20

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Do you think satan is the god of this world ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    So according to your logic, the Most High wanted blindness, they became blind (what else could they do), so they did His will, therefore they did not sin.

    For your information 2 Cor. 4:4 does not say « god of this world », but « god of this aion », the next aion he will no longer be a « god ».

    Aristarkos
    I understand that it means “age”, I clarify that in my video. And to answer your assumption, that is not my logic. I explain my logic in this thread. Yahuwah does not cause their unbelief, but gives them over to their unbelief and hardens their heart, and hids the mysteries of the kingdom from them. It is because of their unbelief that Yahuwah blinds them from seeing the light. I prove this through a lot of scripture. Please read my messages in this thread I go through this.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Do you think satan is the god of this world ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    So according to your logic, the Most High wanted blindness, they became blind (what else could they do), so they did His will, therefore they did not sin.

    For your information 2 Cor. 4:4 does not say « god of this world », but « god of this aion », the next aion he will no longer be a « god ».

    Aristarkos
    Romans 9 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

    12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

    15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

    18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

    19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

    23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

  6. #21

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    And you give way too much power to the devil by saying he is the God of this whole age. It is not biblical

  7. #22

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    And also your view lines up with the ancient gnostic interpretation, saying there was an inferior god of this age , but the true God is God of the Age to come

  8. #23

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Proclaiming, I watched your video and understand your position; I guess I'm just not as convinced as you.

    I believe the correct translation should be "god of this age," not world.

    I don't believe interpreting it as Satan bestows any kind of "deity" status upon him; on the contrary Paul is simply calling out the enemy and warning the Corinthians.

    Paul's example of the Jews in Ch. 3 doesn't say it was God or anyone else who blinded them, it simply says there's a veil over their minds. He uses the Jews as an type and example of all unbelievers, who likewise have a veil of unbelief over their minds.

    I recognize that scripture says in places that God does blind people or harden their hearts; however, I don't believe that's the case in 2 Cor. 4:4.

    Lastly, you seem to rely on the argument that the verse should be read "In whom the god (pause) of this world has blinded. . ." I'm having difficulty understanding this part of your case. How exactly does that demonstrate that the translation should be "God" rather than "god?"

  9. #24
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    And you give way too much power to the devil by saying he is the God of this whole age. It is not biblical
    Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

    6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

    7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
    A man is in a great place when he has no one to turn to but God.

    ~ Smith Wigglesworth


  10. #25
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    No I don’t. I believe 2 Corinthians 4:4 is speaking of Yahuwah not Satan.
    This text is clearly speaking of Satan as the god of this world blinding the minds of all unbelievers..

    II Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

    God the Father didn't send His Son into this darkened world so that He might blind the minds of the ones He is trying to save it just doesn't wash..
    A man is in a great place when he has no one to turn to but God.

    ~ Smith Wigglesworth


  11. #26
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Isaiah 29:10 10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

    Isaiah 6: 8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
    9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
    10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    John 12
    37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
    38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
    39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them

    Romans 117 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
    8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
    9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
    10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Should I keep going? Please show me scripture saying the devil blinded Israel...I know the emotional argument attached to the Satan interpretation, the idea of “God would never blind someone he is good”. But we must understand this in context. First off, this is NOT saying Yahuwah is the author of their unbelief. I make sure to establish that point in my video, Yahuwah gives man freewill. He is not the author of their unbelief, instead it is because of their unbelief that Yahuwah gives them over to unbelief and hardens their heart. Because of their unbelief he hids the mysteries of the kingdom from them, as Yahuwshuwa tells his disciples the mysteries are not for the world, but for his people (those who put their faith in him).
    I’m not saying these things in a mean attitude I’m just trying to help you understand where I’m coming from.
    Shaluwm
    You must've missed my argument. In it, I argued that God is equally part of the blinding of men. I'm very aware of the passages that speak of God blinding men. As I said above, God is all-powerful, and controls even Satan's methodology, when he lies and deceives men. I consider "deceiving men" the same as "blinding them." And so, I have already shown you how Satan blinds men in the Scriptures, when I quoted 2 Thes 2 above.

    It is not an emotional argument for me--it is just a traditional argument. I accept the reasonableness of your argument--I just don't agree with it for the reason stated, that the language used is similar to language used elsewhere with regard to Satan.

    The deceptiveness of Satan, which in effect "blinds" men...
    2 Cor 11.14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
    2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie.
    Rev 12.9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.
    John 8.44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
    2 Tim 2.26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
    Heb 2.14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
    1 John 5.19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

    Satan is described as the "god of this age," and Paul describes the present age as "evil"...
    2 Cor 4.4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
    1 Cor 2.6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
    Gal 1.4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father

    Satan is called the "prince of demons." As such, he appears as a kind of demonic "god"...
    Matt 9.34 But the Pharisees said, “It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons.”
    John 12.31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

    Satan is referred to as a power and authority in this world, in the present age. This spiritual authority is like an evil "god," exerting power over men to deceive them and to lead them into wickedness and rebellion against God...
    Eph 6.12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
    2 Thes 2.7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work.
    Eph 2.2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.


    If Satan is described as a heavenly prince, who rules over men in the world, within the present evil age, deceiving them and captivating them, how can he not be seen as a "god" figure who blinds men and renders them imprisoned by sin?

    Angels certainly were given authority to render judgments and to make decisions. The cherubim in the Garden enforced the ban of men from that garden, as long as they remain tainted by sin. They were carrying out God's verdict.

    Satan, likewise, uses the guilt of men to bind them to God's judgments against sinners. Unless men lay hold of a word from God that delivers them from the guilt of sin, they are captured by the maliciousness of Satan, who wants men to follow him in his rebellion against God.

    It's certainly right to say that God uses Satan to blind men. But it is Satan who is evil, and only that God is using Satan to give men what they choose and what they deserve. God blinds men, but He uses Satan to do that. He uses an "evil god," in a sense, to give sinful men what they want and deserve.

  12. #27

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Do you think satan is the god of this world ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Proclaiming, I watched your video and understand your position; I guess I'm just not as convinced as you.

    I believe the correct translation should be "god of this age," not world.

    I don't believe interpreting it as Satan bestows any kind of "deity" status upon him; on the contrary Paul is simply calling out the enemy and warning the Corinthians.

    Paul's example of the Jews in Ch. 3 doesn't say it was God or anyone else who blinded them, it simply says there's a veil over their minds. He uses the Jews as an type and example of all unbelievers, who likewise have a veil of unbelief over their minds.

    I recognize that scripture says in places that God does blind people or harden their hearts; however, I don't believe that's the case in 2 Cor. 4:4.

    Lastly, you seem to rely on the argument that the verse should be read "In whom the god (pause) of this world has blinded. . ." I'm having difficulty understanding this part of your case. How exactly does that demonstrate that the translation should be "God" rather than "god?"
    In the video I teach the earliest interesting which said it should be translated as “ in whom God (not the god), then a break/pause, then the rest of the verse should be read together sayin” of this world, has blinded the minds of those that believe not” saying he blinds the unbelievers of this world.

    But I also show that it is very biblical to even translate is as “the God of this world (age)”.
    So I didn’t just rely on the earliest interpretation.

    I used chapter 3 to identify the unbelievers in 4:4 to be specifically talking about the Jews, then proved the Bible unanimously declares Yahuwah blinded them from seeing the gospel, not Satan.

    But thank you for watching the video and giving me your feedback, i appreciate it.

  13. #28

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    And about the question of o theos being the Most High In 4:4, did you read the link I sent you?

  14. #29

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Do you think satan is the god of this world ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

    6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

    7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
    You really believed the father of lies when he said he had the authority to give kingdoms to whom ever he wants ? He lied In the beginning in the garden and he lied at the end. I suggest you read Romans 13 and see it it Yahuwah that appoints Kings and rulers, and this is why we should pay our taxes, don’t fall for the tricks of the devil

  15. #30

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkman View Post
    Do you think satan is the god of this world ?
    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You must've missed my argument. In it, I argued that God is equally part of the blinding of men. I'm very aware of the passages that speak of God blinding men. As I said above, God is all-powerful, and controls even Satan's methodology, when he lies and deceives men. I consider "deceiving men" the same as "blinding them." And so, I have already shown you how Satan blinds men in the Scriptures, when I quoted 2 Thes 2 above.

    It is not an emotional argument for me--it is just a traditional argument. I accept the reasonableness of your argument--I just don't agree with it for the reason stated, that the language used is similar to language used elsewhere with regard to Satan.

    The deceptiveness of Satan, which in effect "blinds" men...
    2 Cor 11.14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
    2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie.
    Rev 12.9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.
    John 8.44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
    2 Tim 2.26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
    Heb 2.14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
    1 John 5.19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

    Satan is described as the "god of this age," and Paul describes the present age as "evil"...
    2 Cor 4.4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
    1 Cor 2.6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
    Gal 1.4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father

    Satan is called the "prince of demons." As such, he appears as a kind of demonic "god"...
    Matt 9.34 But the Pharisees said, “It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons.”
    John 12.31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

    Satan is referred to as a power and authority in this world, in the present age. This spiritual authority is like an evil "god," exerting power over men to deceive them and to lead them into wickedness and rebellion against God...
    Eph 6.12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
    2 Thes 2.7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work.
    Eph 2.2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.


    If Satan is described as a heavenly prince, who rules over men in the world, within the present evil age, deceiving them and captivating them, how can he not be seen as a "god" figure who blinds men and renders them imprisoned by sin?

    Angels certainly were given authority to render judgments and to make decisions. The cherubim in the Garden enforced the ban of men from that garden, as long as they remain tainted by sin. They were carrying out God's verdict.

    Satan, likewise, uses the guilt of men to bind them to God's judgments against sinners. Unless men lay hold of a word from God that delivers them from the guilt of sin, they are captured by the maliciousness of Satan, who wants men to follow him in his rebellion against God.

    It's certainly right to say that God uses Satan to blind men. But it is Satan who is evil, and only that God is using Satan to give men what they choose and what they deserve. God blinds men, but He uses Satan to do that. He uses an "evil god," in a sense, to give sinful men what they want and deserve.
    Why do you equate blinding with deception? In Isaiah 6 did Yahuwah tell Isaiah to go deceive them? No. What in the context of 2 for 4:4 says the god of this age deceives? The context says he is hardening their hearts not deceiving them.

    And yours is not the traditional interpretation, as I show in my video yours is the more modern interpretation, mine was the traditional one for the first 15 centuries

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