Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 114

Thread: Is Satan really the god of this world?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    854

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

    6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

    7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
    What about these scriptures:

    Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

    Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    And Jesus said
    John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    Satan was a liar:
    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

  2. #32

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Proclaiming, I had a look at the PDF; it's the one you used in your presentation. I've seen and heard enough to know what side of this I come down on. When you have to write a 300+ page document to interpret one verse something seems amiss. To me the meaning of the verse is obvious and I have no desire to continue a pointless debate.

  3. #33

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Proclaiming, I had a look at the PDF; it's the one you used in your presentation. I've seen and heard enough to know what side of this I come down on. When you have to write a 300+ page document to interpret one verse something seems amiss. To me the meaning of the verse is obvious and I have no desire to continue a pointless debate.
    It’s not 300 pages of interpreting it, it shows the history, the background of the Corinthians, 2nd temple rabbinical teachings of satan ( which modern scholars use in a deceptive way to try to prove the Satan interpretation), the Greek and pauls use of theos, and then finally an interpretation using context. So there is a lot of good info meant to prove that the ancient interpretation has a lot more credit than John Calvin and modern scholars give it.
    I give the ancient bishops thoughts on it, modern scholarship on it, and I break it down on my own, I wanted to show that from all angles that this is a correct interpretation.
    Like I said thank you for giving my argument a chance and watching it all the way through, grace and shaluwm into you in the name of Yahuwshuwa

  4. #34

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    What about these scriptures:

    Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

    Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

    And Jesus said
    John 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    Satan was a liar:
    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
    Exactly, men are believing Satans words, Yahuwshuwa didn’t believe them nor give him honor. Romans 13 is a good chapter to add along with the verses you gave. People today give Satan way too much power. He is a defeated foe running to and fro in anger because he knows his time is almost done.

  5. #35

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Proclaiming, I had a look at the PDF; it's the one you used in your presentation. I've seen and heard enough to know what side of this I come down on. When you have to write a 300+ page document to interpret one verse something seems amiss. To me the meaning of the verse is obvious and I have no desire to continue a pointless debate.
    I have other teachings on my YouTube channel also , subscribe and I would love for you to give me your thoughts on the other teachings as well.
    What I strive to do is teach the doctrine of the early church from the first 3 centuries, so whether you agree with them or not you could at least hear from their perspective

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,451
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    I understand that it means “age”, I clarify that in my video. And to answer your assumption, that is not my logic. I explain my logic in this thread. Yahuwah does not cause their unbelief, but gives them over to their unbelief and hardens their heart, and hids the mysteries of the kingdom from them. It is because of their unbelief that Yahuwah blinds them from seeing the light. I prove this through a lot of scripture. Please read my messages in this thread I go through this.
    No, aion doesn't mean age, their isn't a good English word for it. But again you say that their was unbelief and because of that God hardened them. Why? Unbelief in itself hardens the heart as we see stated in the O.T. for example Eze. 11:19 « And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh », this was not because God hardened them, but because of their own choice. If God hardens them they are lost, because no one can act against a decision God makes, we can only act against His desire and that happens every day. In 2 Pet. 3:9 we read « ... not willing (Greek: boulomai) that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance ». Your logic is in conflict with this Scripture for starters.

    Unbelief is a choice as many now do not belief what Scripture says, it gets more or less spiritualized, this is by choice as well. Not understanding the aions is a big reason for this.

    Of cours it is biblical, it just doesn't fit your explanation of it, just read what Paul says about it in 2 Cor. 4:4 « In whom the god of this aion hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them ». It is Satan who tries to keep as many away from God's truth (Christ), it is preposterous to make God the source of the evil of Satan. God doesn't have to harden those who believe not, they have hardened themselves as Pharaoh did.

    In Luke 20:34, 35 we can see the Lord makes the difference between this aion (of which Satan is god) and that aion: « And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this aion marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that aion, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage ».

    Aristarkos

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Sandmountain Alabama
    Posts
    544
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    And you give way too much power to the devil by saying he is the God of this whole age. It is not biblical
    A few years ago I thought the devil was just a bad influence on mankind and that was the big problem . I will say this my eyes have been opened to things that devil is doing that blew my mind !

    You need to be wearing the full armor of God at all times . " Prince of the power of the air "

    Ephesians 2:2
    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    I am not afraid of the devil but I am watchful for his attacks . I am protected by the grace of God !

  8. #38

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    No, aion doesn't mean age, their isn't a good English word for it. But again you say that their was unbelief and because of that God hardened them. Why? Unbelief in itself hardens the heart as we see stated in the O.T. for example Eze. 11:19 « And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh », this was not because God hardened them, but because of their own choice. If God hardens them they are lost, because no one can act against a decision God makes, we can only act against His desire and that happens every day. In 2 Pet. 3:9 we read « ... not willing (Greek: boulomai) that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance ». Your logic is in conflict with this Scripture for starters.

    Unbelief is a choice as many now do not belief what Scripture says, it gets more or less spiritualized, this is by choice as well. Not understanding the aions is a big reason for this.

    Of cours it is biblical, it just doesn't fit your explanation of it, just read what Paul says about it in 2 Cor. 4:4 « In whom the god of this aion hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them ». It is Satan who tries to keep as many away from God's truth (Christ), it is preposterous to make God the source of the evil of Satan. God doesn't have to harden those who believe not, they have hardened themselves as Pharaoh did.

    In Luke 20:34, 35 we can see the Lord makes the difference between this aion (of which Satan is god) and that aion: « And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this aion marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that aion, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage ».

    Aristarkos
    Sounds like you just want to argue, Sion doesn’t mean age? Well that’s the predominate choice among scholars, you knew what I meant by age but you seem to always have to know better than the next person.
    Your long arguement is based off emotion, the argument that “God would ever do something like that, he doesn’t blind people”, but that logic doesn’t line up with scripture nor the way the early church saw it.
    I suggest you read the book of Romans it refuted your doctrine:

    Romans 9 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calls
    12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger
    13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
    14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
    15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
    23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
    24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


    Romans 11 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
    8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
    9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
    10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
    12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?


    Shaluwm

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    10,839

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Why do you equate blinding with deception? In Isaiah 6 did Yahuwah tell Isaiah to go deceive them? No. What in the context of 2 for 4:4 says the god of this age deceives? The context says he is hardening their hearts not deceiving them.

    And yours is not the traditional interpretation, as I show in my video yours is the more modern interpretation, mine was the traditional one for the first 15 centuries
    I am considering your viewpoint. It's possible. If you're right, that the traditional viewpoint is that it is God who blinded, then that's a very strong argument for somebody like me, who places a lot of stock on ancient interpretations. I did notice, as I reviewed your argument, that the majority of statements dealing with blindness in the Scriptures refer to God blinding men--not Satan! So that is also a good argument.

    I suppose you're right that I'm arguing out of a more "emotional argument" in the sense I'm defending what I believed to be the more traditional viewpoint. But if you're right, I'll give your argument more consideration. I haven't listened to the video yet. I'm asked to watch a lot of material, so I hesitate to get caught up in anything that doesn't warrant the investment of time. Sorry, I'll try to fit it in...

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    12,003

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    I've always taken 'god of this world has blinded' as follows....

    Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    3,101
    Blog Entries
    69

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Hello all May grace and shaluwm be upon you in the name of Yahuwshuwa our Savior.
    I know that the predominate interpretation of 2 Corinthians 4:4 is speaking of Satan, but after studying it in depth I have a problem with that interpretation.
    For the first 15 centuries of the early assembly the predominate interpretation of the Orthodox Church was that this verse is speaking about the Most High, not Satan. Only after John Calvin did this new interpretation become really poplular.
    I have a video making an argument for the older interpretation would love to start a discussion on this topic.
    https://youtu.be/w-UNDy62yA4

    When looked at in context with chapter 3, 2 Corinthians 4:4 is talking about the unbelieving Jews, and a strong argument can be made through a lot of scripture that it wasn’t the devil that blinded them, but it was the Most High.
    8 min in, looks very interesting. I will try and finish it. If true, then just as I suspected, we are giving Satan far too much power than he actually has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Hello all May grace and shaluwm be upon you in the name of Yahuwshuwa our Savior.
    I know that the predominate interpretation of 2 Corinthians 4:4 is speaking of Satan, but after studying it in depth I have a problem with that interpretation.
    For the first 15 centuries of the early assembly the predominate interpretation of the Orthodox Church was that this verse is speaking about the Most High, not Satan. Only after John Calvin did this new interpretation become really poplular.
    I have a video making an argument for the older interpretation would love to start a discussion on this topic.
    https://youtu.be/w-UNDy62yA4

    When looked at in context with chapter 3, 2 Corinthians 4:4 is talking about the unbelieving Jews, and a strong argument can be made through a lot of scripture that it wasn’t the devil that blinded them, but it was the Most High.
    8 min in, looks very interesting. I will try and finish it. If true, then just as I suspected, we are giving Satan far too much power than he actually has.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    3,101
    Blog Entries
    69

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    And you give way too much power to the devil by saying he is the God of this whole age. It is not biblical
    Agree. This mindset is very prevelant in dispensationalism.

    We are not giving the Spirt enough power/credit, and we give the enemy too much.
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    3,101
    Blog Entries
    69

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

    6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

    7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
    This happened pre-cross tho....
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  14. #44

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I am considering your viewpoint. It's possible. If you're right, that the traditional viewpoint is that it is God who blinded, then that's a very strong argument for somebody like me, who places a lot of stock on ancient interpretations. I did notice, as I reviewed your argument, that the majority of statements dealing with blindness in the Scriptures refer to God blinding men--not Satan! So that is also a good argument.

    I suppose you're right that I'm arguing out of a more "emotional argument" in the sense I'm defending what I believed to be the more traditional viewpoint. But if you're right, I'll give your argument more consideration. I haven't listened to the video yet. I'm asked to watch a lot of material, so I hesitate to get caught up in anything that doesn't warrant the investment of time. Sorry, I'll try to fit it in...
    If you place a lot of stock in the early church, as much as I do, then you will definitely agree with this interpretation. I prove in the video that this was the predominate view for the first 15 centuries until John Calvin popularized the Satan interpretation.
    Let me know what you think about the video if you ever get the chance to see it thank you would appreciate your feedback.

  15. #45

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    8 min in, looks very interesting. I will try and finish it. If true, then just as I suspected, we are giving Satan far too much power than he actually has.



    8 min in, looks very interesting. I will try and finish it. If true, then just as I suspected, we are giving Satan far too much power than he actually has.
    Thank you for checking it out let me know what you think of it when you finish it I would appreciate your feedback. And send me a comment on one of my videos if you ever want to discuss scripture

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Live in the world but do not conform to the world.
    By Trivalee in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Sep 21st 2016, 11:56 PM
  2. Binding of Satan : Further Proof Satan in Chains
    By aMill in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: Feb 11th 2015, 06:09 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jan 11th 2014, 04:49 PM
  4. Does spirit world trump material world?
    By BrckBrln in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Mar 9th 2009, 09:58 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •