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Thread: Is Satan really the god of this world?

  1. #61

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Well then it's my mistake, I thought this was a Bible discussion forum, silly me... It is BTW aion, not sion...



    Which is an old argument of those who are cornered, just say a whole book refutes something, it doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

    [...]

    I'm not sure why you're quoting Romans here, we were talking about aions (or olamim in Hebrew) and you quote this? Well thank you for your time.

    Aristarkos
    I obviously meant aion but auto correct changed it to Sion . Again, proving you just love to argue. Your the type of person that always has to be right, Even when their wrong. The passages I quote refuted your false premise of ďGod doesnít harden hearts, people harden their own heartsĒ. If you want more proof read ewq1938ís excellent explanation, proving you to be wrong. If you still want to argue then refute ewq1938ís excellent argument.

  2. #62
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Yea most modern commentaries will make that connection. But on my opinion itís not a strong connection, especially in comparison to the argument that can be made for Yahuwah the Most High being the subject of 2 corinthians 4:4. Have you read through the list of scripture I provided showing that Yahuwah is the one that blinded Israel? And again he did not cause their unbelief , but because of their unbelief he blinded them from seeing the mysteries of the kingdom (as can be proven through a lot of scripture).
    If it is because of their unbelief then how do you explain these scriptures?

    John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Wouldn't you then ask the question: Is their unbelief part of God's plan to save the world?

  3. #63
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    The how are we to interpret this..

    Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    Don't we see in v 5 and 7 that power was given him?

  4. #64
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Yea most modern commentaries will make that connection. But on my opinion itís not a strong connection, especially in comparison to the argument that can be made for Yahuwah the Most High being the subject of 2 corinthians 4:4. Have you read through the list of scripture I provided showing that Yahuwah is the one that blinded Israel? And again he did not cause their unbelief , but because of their unbelief he blinded them from seeing the mysteries of the kingdom (as can be proven through a lot of scripture).
    I was just stating what I've always thought in passing by this verse. I never gave it much thought, although I did see the context with Israel in chapter 3, and of course was aware of all the other passages that say the same. I've also done a lot of reading on Gnosticism/Original Sin/Sin Nature so I've seen what the ECF's had to say on this. I've always just left it there and kinda like Pelagius just let it go because of the similarity with Eph 2:2 and other statements like prince of this world etc.

    I watched most of the video, combed through the ECF's, and of course already know all the scriptures on the subject, and have to conclude God is the correct subject of 2Cor 4:4. ewq1938's post #56 is spot on, except I will say I only ever apply this to Israel, since that's all scripture ever does. God doesn't have any reason to blind Gentiles who have rejected the gospel. A lot of people do that but eventually come around. Not opening eyes of those that do not believe seems to be something God only does, and needs to do, with Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles.

    After John preached repentance and was rejected and thrown in prison, and Jesus preached repentance and was rejected as Messiah, Jesus was asked why he started speaking in parables? He said to keep them from coming to repentance. Speaking in parables was a method of blinding those that would not believe. He was also quite the instigator, doing and saying things that got under their skin. Another method of blinding. God could open Israel's eyes just as he has to do for some Gentiles but he doesn't. That's blinding. Religion is another thing that blinds. They have Moses. This of course is true for any religion.

    The video? My only suggestion would be maybe a few rehearsals or more takes and video editing to eliminate back stepping/repeating reading wording mistakes? Could knock 10 minutes off the video time and it would flow better. Those of us that have read these verses 100x can keep up and fix the errors but some of the verses are hard enough for some people to understand when read fluently.

  5. #65
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post

    Amen Noeb, this is the same god of 2 Cor. 4:4. Satan is the god of this world system. He runs things by influencing man with powerful thoughts that he transmits through the air. Most men don't even know where those thoughts originate, but they play well to their flesh. Those fiery darts are enough to make him god of the world system. But our heavenly Father is reigning supreme, and the devils know that and tremble (James 2:19). God had given mankind dominion (Gen. 1:28) so he is letting things play out right now before He intervenes to save us from ourselves.
    I don't take Eph 2:2 to that level. There's a big difference between satan trying to prevent the gospel and "influencing man with powerful thoughts that he transmits through the air". I don't subscribe to the latter. Paul is describing what he sums up later in the chapter as "in the world without God" and saying we pretty much do what we want to do, and that's exactly what satan wants.

  6. #66
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    No im definitely not an amillennialist, I strive to line my self up with the early church and they were pre-millennial.
    shhhh.....you're gonna start another fire.

  7. #67
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    If it is because of their unbelief then how do you explain these scriptures?

    John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    "they shall all be taught of God" but only those that learn (hear and learn=drawn) come to Christ. Whether or not one learns (hears and learns=drawn) is up to them.

    As I mentioned earlier, Jesus was an instigator. Eat my flesh and drink my blood? Hard saying. At the end of this chapter who was left standing with Jesus? The disciples. Go back to the beginning. Where were they? Some with John, all of them expecting the arrival of Messiah and looking for him. Where was their heart? With the Father. They were taught, heard, and learned. When Christ showed up, they came to him. Being drawn is connected to hearing and learning. It is not a flick of the switch/eyes opened moment when the gospel is preached. That just doesn't fit in the context or flow with the preceding verse.


    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Wouldn't you then ask the question: Is their unbelief part of God's plan to save the world?
    In the beginning no. Afterward yes. What I mean is, I believe they that rejected Jesus did so on their own initially. Then God used it to accomplish saving the world through faith until the fullness of the Gentiles.

  8. #68
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    The video? My only suggestion would be maybe a few rehearsals or more takes and video editing to eliminate back stepping/repeating reading wording mistakes? Could knock 10 minutes off the video time and it would flow better. Those of us that have read these verses 100x can keep up and fix the errors but some of the verses are hard enough for some people to understand when read fluently.
    Oh and a failed to mention this is true when reading the ECF's as well.

    Blessings

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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    "they shall all be taught of God" but only those that learn (hear and learn=drawn) come to Christ. Whether or not one learns (hears and learns=drawn) is up to them.

    As I mentioned earlier, Jesus was an instigator. Eat my flesh and drink my blood? Hard saying. At the end of this chapter who was left standing with Jesus? The disciples. Go back to the beginning. Where were they? Some with John, all of them expecting the arrival of Messiah and looking for him. Where was their heart? With the Father. They were taught, heard, and learned. When Christ showed up, they came to him. Being drawn is connected to hearing and learning. It is not a flick of the switch/eyes opened moment when the gospel is preached. That just doesn't fit in the context or flow with the preceding verse.

    In the beginning no. Afterward yes. What I mean is, I believe they that rejected Jesus did so on their own initially. Then God used it to accomplish saving the world through faith until the fullness of the Gentiles.
    Thanks Noeb, I think I see what you are saying and it does make sense. So basically you are saying the learning has to be an effort on our part? This is basically seeking God. You should give me your thoughts on the new thread I posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    "they shall all be taught of God" but only those that learn (hear and learn=drawn) come to Christ. Whether or not one learns (hears and learns=drawn) is up to them.

    As I mentioned earlier, Jesus was an instigator. Eat my flesh and drink my blood? Hard saying. At the end of this chapter who was left standing with Jesus? The disciples. Go back to the beginning. Where were they? Some with John, all of them expecting the arrival of Messiah and looking for him. Where was their heart? With the Father. They were taught, heard, and learned. When Christ showed up, they came to him. Being drawn is connected to hearing and learning. It is not a flick of the switch/eyes opened moment when the gospel is preached. That just doesn't fit in the context or flow with the preceding verse.

    In the beginning no. Afterward yes. What I mean is, I believe they that rejected Jesus did so on their own initially. Then God used it to accomplish saving the world through faith until the fullness of the Gentiles.
    Thanks Noeb, I think I see what you are saying and it does make sense. So basically you are saying the learning has to be an effort on our part? This is basically seeking God. You should give me your thoughts on the new thread I posted.

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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Thanks Noeb, I think I see what you are saying and it does make sense. So basically you are saying the learning has to be an effort on our part? This is basically seeking God. You should give me your thoughts on the new thread I posted.
    Right. Look at the whole chapter. Few were there for manna from heaven. Most were not. All were taught. I'll check out your other thread.

  11. #71

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I was just stating what I've always thought in passing by this verse. I never gave it much thought, although I did see the context with Israel in chapter 3, and of course was aware of all the other passages that say the same. I've also done a lot of reading on Gnosticism/Original Sin/Sin Nature so I've seen what the ECF's had to say on this. I've always just left it there and kinda like Pelagius just let it go because of the similarity with Eph 2:2 and other statements like prince of this world etc.

    I watched most of the video, combed through the ECF's, and of course already know all the scriptures on the subject, and have to conclude God is the correct subject of 2Cor 4:4. ewq1938's post #56 is spot on, except I will say I only ever apply this to Israel, since that's all scripture ever does. God doesn't have any reason to blind Gentiles who have rejected the gospel. A lot of people do that but eventually come around. Not opening eyes of those that do not believe seems to be something God only does, and needs to do, with Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles.

    After John preached repentance and was rejected and thrown in prison, and Jesus preached repentance and was rejected as Messiah, Jesus was asked why he started speaking in parables? He said to keep them from coming to repentance. Speaking in parables was a method of blinding those that would not believe. He was also quite the instigator, doing and saying things that got under their skin. Another method of blinding. God could open Israel's eyes just as he has to do for some Gentiles but he doesn't. That's blinding. Religion is another thing that blinds. They have Moses. This of course is true for any religion.

    The video? My only suggestion would be maybe a few rehearsals or more takes and video editing to eliminate back stepping/repeating reading wording mistakes? Could knock 10 minutes off the video time and it would flow better. Those of us that have read these verses 100x can keep up and fix the errors but some of the verses are hard enough for some people to understand when read fluently.
    Yea for those well grounded in scripture like yourself then connecting all the right verses together makes it prettt obvious who the subject of 2 Corinthians 4:4 is, Iím glad you see it the same way I do now.
    And thank you for your feedback on my video I really appreciate, I want to make my videos enjoyable to watch so I will definitely work on editing it better and not repeating myself. Thank you

  12. #72

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    The video? My only suggestion would be maybe a few rehearsals or more takes and video editing to eliminate back stepping/repeating reading wording mistakes? Could knock 10 minutes off the video time and it would flow better. Those of us that have read these verses 100x can keep up and fix the errors but some of the verses are hard enough for some people to understand when read fluently.
    Can you please explain what you mean by wording errors and mistakes?

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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Hopefully it wasnít my presentation that put you to sleep lol and yea I already expected to get some resistance when I posted this because I know We have been indoctrinated by the Satan interpretation from preachers and bias translations. But surprisingly Iím getting a few people with open minds to hear me out.
    Iíve been studying the early church for years so you and I probably have a lot in common in our doctrines.
    No, I didn't fall asleep due to your presentation, unless it was the length. I found it interesting, and enjoyed the video...until I fell asleep. This has become a habit of mine in my retirement, particularly when I only get about 4 or 5 hours of sleep at night!

    Don't let me discourage you. Whether I agree with you or not, you have a strong argument with me so far. I'm just letting the argument play out a little longer. Yes, we probably share a lot in common with our reliance upon early historical testimonies. They are sometimes falling short. But overall, the Church Fathers are a tremendous source, as well as an encouragement. I wish I knew them better!

  14. #74

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No, I didn't fall asleep due to your presentation, unless it was the length. I found it interesting, and enjoyed the video...until I fell asleep. This has become a habit of mine in my retirement, particularly when I only get about 4 or 5 hours of sleep at night!

    Don't let me discourage you. Whether I agree with you or not, you have a strong argument with me so far. I'm just letting the argument play out a little longer. Yes, we probably share a lot in common with our reliance upon early historical testimonies. They are sometimes falling short. But overall, the Church Fathers are a tremendous source, as well as an encouragement. I wish I knew them better!
    You should definitely try to get more sleep if that is possible. Have you read ewq1938ís post yet? He makes a very good argument as well.
    Send me a comment on one of my videos anytime and we can talk about the church fathers. All my videos teach what the early church taught.

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    Cool Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Well done, very beautifully explained. Much better than my explanations. Thank you for sharing that I enjoyed reading it
    Does it really matter who the god of the world is? I mean: if the people are blinded, our heavenly Father has allowed it. It does not matter if God allowed something, it is the same as Him doing something. So Satan's false gospel is believed with God's permission. David had the same mindset of God's hand in his affairs:

    Psalms 39:9, 10 "I was dumb, I opened not my mouth; because thou didst it. Remove thy stroke away from me: I am consumed by the blow of thine hand."
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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