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Thread: Is Satan really the god of this world?

  1. #1

    Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Hello all May grace and shaluwm be upon you in the name of Yahuwshuwa our Savior.
    I know that the predominate interpretation of 2 Corinthians 4:4 is speaking of Satan, but after studying it in depth I have a problem with that interpretation.
    For the first 15 centuries of the early assembly the predominate interpretation of the Orthodox Church was that this verse is speaking about the Most High, not Satan. Only after John Calvin did this new interpretation become really poplular.
    I have a video making an argument for the older interpretation would love to start a discussion on this topic.
    https://youtu.be/w-UNDy62yA4

    When looked at in context with chapter 3, 2 Corinthians 4:4 is talking about the unbelieving Jews, and a strong argument can be made through a lot of scripture that it wasnít the devil that blinded them, but it was the Most High.

  2. #2

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Hi, thanks for posting your video. I haven't finished watching it yet; you may address this further along but I have a quick question.

    In the Greek of 2 Cor. 4:4, theta in theos is lowercase; in your example from 2 Cor. 4:6 theta is uppercase. If 2 Cor. 4:4 is talking about Elohim wouldn't theos be uppercase?

  3. #3

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Hi, thanks for posting your video. I haven't finished watching it yet; you may address this further along but I have a quick question.

    In the Greek of 2 Cor. 4:4, theta in theos is lowercase; in your example from 2 Cor. 4:6 theta is uppercase. If 2 Cor. 4:4 is talking about Elohim wouldn't theos be uppercase?
    Hello thanks for your question itís a good one. We must realize the KJV was translated from a revised Greek manuscript by Erasmus, as I show in the video Erasmus and John Calvin together supported the Satan interpretation. Order manuscripts show that it was common not to capitalize thoes every time itís used, so that wouldnít automatically disqualify if from talking about the Most High

  4. #4

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Older manuscripts * not order

  5. #5

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Okay, finished watching and have to say I learned a lot.

    I understand theos may not have been capitalized every time; the real question is was it typical to consistently capitalize it when the meaning is clearly to Elohim. In other words, are there other examples when the reference is clearly to Elohim but it's not capitalized in the Greek?

  6. #6
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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Hello thanks for your question itís a good one. We must realize the KJV was translated from a revised Greek manuscript by Erasmus, as I show in the video Erasmus and John Calvin together supported the Satan interpretation. Order manuscripts show that it was common not to capitalize thoes every time itís used, so that wouldnít automatically disqualify if from talking about the Most High
    What exactly do you mean by the Satan interpretation?
    A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.

    ~ Charles Spurgeon


  7. #7

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Okay, finished watching and have to say I learned a lot.

    I understand theos may not have been capitalized every time; the real question is was it typical to consistently capitalize it when the meaning is clearly to Elohim. In other words, are there other examples when the reference is clearly to Elohim but it's not capitalized in the Greek?
    Take a look at Philippians 3:19 itís talking about unbelievers who make their belly their ďTheosĒ it is capitalized on the Greek though English translations make it lower case. Showing that upper and lower case doesnít equal true or false theos. You can find older manuscripts like I said which have lower case Theos for the true Alahym.

  8. #8

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    What your seeing in the Greek in 2 Corinthians 4:4 is the editors choice of punctuation

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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    What your seeing in the Greek in 2 Corinthians 4:4 is the editors choice of punctuation
    Were you speaking to me?
    A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.

    ~ Charles Spurgeon


  10. #10

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Were you speaking to me?
    Sorry I didnít see your message. To answer your question when I said Satan interpretation I meant the interpretation that identifies the theos of this world as Satan.

  11. #11

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Okay, finished watching and have to say I learned a lot.

    I understand theos may not have been capitalized every time; the real question is was it typical to consistently capitalize it when the meaning is clearly to Elohim. In other words, are there other examples when the reference is clearly to Elohim but it's not capitalized in the Greek?
    Hey for a more scholarly answer to your question about Paulís use of theos look at this :
    https://open.uct.ac.za/bitstream/han...pdf;sequence=1

    Read pages 189-195, make sure your looking at the page numbers in the bottom right corner of the pages not on the scrolling numbers on the top left . On 189 it should be titled ďPaulís language about GodĒ

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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    Hello thanks for your question itís a good one. We must realize the KJV was translated from a revised Greek manuscript by Erasmus, as I show in the video Erasmus and John Calvin together supported the Satan interpretation. Order manuscripts show that it was common not to capitalize thoes every time itís used, so that wouldnít automatically disqualify if from talking about the Most High
    Technically, Erasmus only brought about a Greek text for printing--the KJV came much later! Just in case some don't know this. Erasmus had thousands of differences and errors from the Majority Text, and his edition has to be revised/corrected many times before it was called "the Textus Receptus." Erasmus lived a 100 years earlier than the KJV's creation. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this?

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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    2 Cor 4.4 may have been misunderstood to refer to God, but in all likelihood it refers to the Devil. The reason is, other references to Satan are similarly put. The language and application are similar. Jesus referred to Satan as the one who prevents men from responding to God's word.

    Matt 13. ďListen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart."

  14. #14

    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    2 Cor 4.4 may have been misunderstood to refer to God, but in all likelihood it refers to the Devil. The reason is, other references to Satan are similarly put. The language and application are similar. Jesus referred to Satan as the one who prevents men from responding to God's word.
    Matt 13. ďListen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart."
    If you watch my video you will see all the verses I provide that plainly say the Most High blinded Israel and hardened their heart ( John 12:37-41 romans 11:7-10, Isaiah 6:9 and 29:10) I believe the evidence is much more stronger pointing to the Most High rather than the devil.
    And addressing the verse you provided, how did Yahuwshuwa interpret that parable? He said when one hears the words and understands it not, then the devil comes and snatches away what it sown. Thatís different than blinding them from receiving the seed. And the verses I provided are much more parallel are straight forward saying Yahuwah blinded Israel.

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    Re: Is Satan really the god of this world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclaiming_Yahuwshuwa View Post
    If you watch my video you will see all the verses I provide that plainly say the Most High blinded Israel and hardened their heart ( John 12:37-41 romans 11:7-10, Isaiah 6:9 and 29:10) I believe the evidence is much more stronger pointing to the Most High rather than the devil.
    And addressing the verse you provided, how did Yahuwshuwa interpret that parable? He said when one hears the words and understands it not, then the devil comes and snatches away what it sown. Thatís different than blinding them from receiving the seed. And the verses I provided are much more parallel are straight forward saying Yahuwah blinded Israel.
    The Devil *blinds* men, brother! The Devil also postures as a god. The Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God!

    There is no question that God controls Satan, including his deceptions and wickedness. It doesn't mean God *is* wicked--it only means that as an all-powerful Being every freedom we have is controlled and allowed by Him.

    So when Satan deceives men, it is simultaneously a blindness God is allowing to be used against men who pursue that by their own rebellion against the truth of God!

    2 Thes 2.9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

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