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Thread: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

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    Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Dan 9
    4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

    Dan 9
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

    In verse 4 Daniel is speaking to the promised Abrahamic covenant to Israel and his concern God would forgo this with his people Israel but know somehow verse 27 speaks of a different covenant? The two must be the same. Daniel's prayers will be fulfilled at a future date will the confirming the said covenant in verse 4 in verse 27.

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Dan 9
    4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

    Dan 9
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

    In verse 4 Daniel is speaking to the promised Abrahamic covenant to Israel and his concern God would forgo this with his people Israel but know somehow verse 27 speaks of a different covenant? The two must be the same. Daniel's prayers will be fulfilled at a future date will the confirming the said covenant in verse 4 in verse 27.
    No; it would not be the same.

    In Daniel 9:4, it is the Mosaic Covenant referred to. In Daniel 9:27, it isn't a covenant but a treaty, an agreement for peace between two parties on earth, for an agreed time period of seven years.
    It is between the leader of the world government of the end times and the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5 Isaiah 28:14-15 refers to it as the Treaty of Death, because the leaders of Beulah have not kept their trust in the Lord for their protection.

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Dan 9
    4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

    Dan 9
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

    In verse 4 Daniel is speaking to the promised Abrahamic covenant to Israel and his concern God would forgo this with his people Israel but know somehow verse 27 speaks of a different covenant? The two must be the same. Daniel's prayers will be fulfilled at a future date will the confirming the said covenant in verse 4 in verse 27.
    There is no requirement for them to be the SAME covenant, and the very wording in Dan 9:27 suggests a different covenant. What is the same is that BOTH are covenants, that is an agreement between more than one party.

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    the very wording in Dan 9:27 suggests a different covenant.
    How is that?...………………….

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    How is that?...………………….
    Well in Dan 9:4 Daniel refers to an EXISTING covenant.
    However Dan 9:27 speaks of MAKING a covenant, which means a new covenant of some kind.
    Some argue it isn't made but strengthened, yet this covenant in 9:27 only lasts 1 week, which for me is 7 years, but for you is but 7 days.

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Well in Dan 9:4 Daniel refers to an EXISTING covenant.
    However Dan 9:27 speaks of MAKING a covenant, which means a new covenant of some kind.
    Why do you think the text should be translated "to make a firm" and not "to confirm" a covenant.?

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Why do you think the text should be translated "to make a firm" and not "to confirm" a covenant.?
    The word used is ONLY used once in the entire Bible in this passage.
    wə·hiḡ·bīr
    Has as its root "strong" or "mighty"
    The prefix speaks of entering "into" that mighty thing.
    The following word of course is covenant.
    Therefore the idea shown is that of entering "into strong covenant".
    Some think maybe this is simply making the covenant strong, but I side with those translators who see the prefix as denoting a "going in", therefore when you go into agreement with others then this means you are making a covenant, and not simply affirming one.

    This is supported by it being stated as being done for one week.

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    In verse 25 God promised an Anointed One at year 483. When Jesus arrived in year 483, Jesus affirmed that promise. Simple

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The word used is ONLY used once in the entire Bible in this passage.
    wə·hiḡ·bīr
    Has as its root "strong" or "mighty"
    The prefix speaks of entering "into" that mighty thing.
    Therefore the idea shown is that of entering "into strong covenant".
    It is more like "prevailed".

    Therefore the idea of a previous covenant prevailing...….not making another covenant

    Note not all translations have it "to make". The KJV translates "to confirm" (prevailed)

    Again does not make sense to have another covenant in view. Daniel is concerned with a previous covenant to Israel that is what the whole chapter is about and pleads with God not to forget his promise. In the vision then he is informed God will confirm the covenant. Makes absolutely no sense then to introduce a covenant by the AC to Israel.

    I guess God did not hear Daniel's prayer!

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    Re: Would not the covenant Dan 9:4 be same covenant as in Dan 9:27?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    It is more like "prevailed".

    Therefore the idea of a previous covenant prevailing...….not making another covenant

    Note not all translations have it "to make". The KJV translates "to confirm" (prevailed)

    Again does not make sense to have another covenant in view. Daniel is concerned with a previous covenant to Israel that is what the whole chapter is about and pleads with God not to forget his promise. In the vision then he is informed God will confirm the covenant. Makes absolutely no sense then to introduce a covenant by the AC to Israel.

    I guess God did not hear Daniel's prayer!
    Most important to understand that God heard and so responded to Daniel's prayer. We are told that God did, so we should accept that.
    Secondly, there is no "prevail" in the word. Someone who is strong or mighty may prevail against someone who isn't, but the root of the word is that of strength and the prefix is about entering into.

    The KJV may be using the word confirm in the old fashioned sense of making. Someone who goes through confirmation is made as much as agreed.

    It does make a lot of sense to have an entirely different covenant in view, not only because of the sense of this going into a covenant, nor just because it is entered for ONLY one week, but also because of who makes the covenant, which is the prince of the people to come, and who makes things desolate ending sacrifice and offerings to God. Also the many doesn't refer to Israel.
    So what we have is a CONTRAST, a Covenant with God that was broken by Daniel's people, and a Covenant made by the prince of the people which will bring about an end to sacrifice and offering.

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