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Thread: What will we look like?

  1. #31
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK. I didn't expect more. But maybe somebody else will profit from our exchange. I will let my posting stand, but give one more proof - of course in the expectation that you will not counter it with scripture (the purpose of this Forum). Consider this:
    Irrelevant distraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    The gospel of John is very different to the other three. Theologians call Matthew, Mark and Luke the "synoptic" gospels. They present us with Christ in all His glory as a Man. John presents our Lord Jesus in all His glory as God. And the theme of the Gospel is to take up where Adam halted - the Tree of Life and how to get God into man so that man can partake of the divine life and be a Companion to, and House for, God. John 20:30-31 gives the purpose of the record of John.
    All synoptic authors present Jesus as divine. Yes, John has his own approach. This is not relevant to any argument, since all of the authors approached Jesus as divine.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    30 "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
    31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."


    John Chapter 1 starts with seven things to end up at "Bethel" - the House of God. Chapter 2 reveals a Wedding, Bride, Groom and God's House. Chapter 3 shows how a mere human can be up to the standard of God by a second, new, heavenly and spiritual birth. And so on. When we come to Chapter 14 we our Lord Jesus prophesies that He will go away to prepare a place for the disciples and return to dwell in them (Jn.14:1-3, 20). This, our Lord Jesus does. He dies to put away sins - the stumbling block to the Tree of Life, rests in Hades three days and rises. Shortly after rising He meets some women disciples and commands them not to touch Him as He had not been to the Father. But that evening, when all the disciples were gathered in a room, He appeared to them and;
    1. commanded that they touch and handle Him, showing that He had been to the Father
    2. breathed the Holy Spirit INTO His disciples, causing the Person of the Holy Spirit to be "with them and IN them" - making them the House of God

    In this, our Lord Jesus PRECISELY fulfilled John 14:1-3 & 20. He had gone away. He had gone away to prepare for them to be "abodes" (not mansions), returned and breathed Himself in the Person of the holy Spirit INTO them. That this was the rebirth is indicated by John 20:17b, "... but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." One cannot be "brethren" of Jesus without having the same Father, and one cannot have God as "our" Father without being born to Him. But an often neglected CONDITION is also fulfilled in connection with the disciples RECEIVING the Holy Spirit in John 20:22.

    In John 7:38-39 it reads;

    38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"


    That the Holy Spirit would be RECEIVED by the disciples is shown by the fact that OUT of a man who believes will flow the "rivers of living waters", which in the next verse is clearly said to be an issue of the Holy Spirit. But this Holy Spirit was to be held back and NOT GIVEN until our Lord Jesus was GLORIFIED. On the morning of resurrection day no-one may touch our Lord Jesus because He had not yet presented His blood to the Father (Heb.9:12), and not yet presented Himself as the "Firstfruits of the dead" to the Father - Who claims right to all firstfruits (1st Cor.15:20-23; Col.1:18). But then, that evening the disciples RECEIVED this Holy Spirit. This could only happen if our Lord Jesus WAS GLORIFIED!
    The Holy Spirit was breathed into Adam. And the Holy Spirit fell upon the Prophets of the OT. Jesus did not pour out the Spirit as the promised "Comforter" until the Day of Pentecost. This was *after* Jesus was glorified by receiving an immortal body, and sat on the right hand of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    I respectfully submit that our Lord Jesus, on the day of resurrection, was GLORIFIED and no more changes to His Body were made after that. What happened at future events, as I submitted in my first posting, was not a new level of glorification, but an UNVEILING to a greater extent of what was already there.
    Your Scriptural approach lacks any real substance on the subject--it is just your preferred explanation of biblical events. Giving the Holy Spirit prior to the Day of Pentecost was not the fulfillment of the "Promise of the Spirit." It was just an impartation of the Spirit, which has happened throughout history to men of God. The glorification of Jesus took place when Jesus ascended to his place on the right hand of God, having assumed his immortal, glorified body.

  2. #32
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Irrelevant distraction.



    All synoptic authors present Jesus as divine. Yes, John has his own approach. This is not relevant to any argument, since all of the authors approached Jesus as divine.



    The Holy Spirit was breathed into Adam. And the Holy Spirit fell upon the Prophets of the OT. Jesus did not pour out the Spirit as the promised "Comforter" until the Day of Pentecost. This was *after* Jesus was glorified by receiving an immortal body, and sat on the right hand of God.



    Your Scriptural approach lacks any real substance on the subject--it is just your preferred explanation of biblical events. Giving the Holy Spirit prior to the Day of Pentecost was not the fulfillment of the "Promise of the Spirit." It was just an impartation of the Spirit, which has happened throughout history to men of God. The glorification of Jesus took place when Jesus ascended to his place on the right hand of God, having assumed his immortal, glorified body.
    Your answer is read and noted. Thanks.

  3. #33
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I don't see Jesus being physically glorified when he met Mary. When Jesus told her not to touch him, I think the idea is that Jesus was indicating he was still in the process of fulfilling a particular mission, namely going to heaven to receive a new glorified body. I think he wanted us to know that healing in this life is not enough--we need to be made immortal, to have our sinful bodies completely disposed of in favor of brand new bodies.

    John 20.17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

    The idea was that Jesus didn't want Mary to "hold onto," or "restrain" him, in any way. He didn't want her to cling onto his resurrection form, nor to try to keep his earthly presence there with her for any length of time. There was a mission to accomplish, and Jesus' presence had to leave his present earthly form until we likewise obtain new heavenly forms.
    Well you quote the right scripture...you are saying you don't believe Jesus did what He said He was going to do then. See now I take that literally in the fact that when Jesus was done talking to Mary He did ascend to the Father just as He said. He said as your scripture states “I am ascending to my Father”

    After this then this:
    John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    You don't believe these things happened?

  4. #34
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Well you quote the right scripture...you are saying you don't believe Jesus did what He said He was going to do then.
    Where did you get that? Of course Jesus did what he said he was going to do! What real Christian would say otherwise?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd
    See now I take that literally in the fact that when Jesus was done talking to Mary He did ascend to the Father just as He said. He said as your scripture states “I am ascending to my Father”
    Are you saying that Jesus *immediately* ascended to God, even *before* his ascension?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd
    After this then this:
    John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

    You don't believe these things happened?
    Of course I believe those things happened! I may not interpret what those things were the same way you do. Quite frankly, I don't understand at all how you're interpreting these things? Maybe you could explain how your view differs from my view? I think I've been pretty plain about what I believe. What do you believe that is different from this?

  5. #35
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Oh come on kyCyd, you are letting D. Taylor and walls philosophize you right out of being Christian. Randy is right. The glorified Christ will look nothing like an ordinary man. Here are a few of references:

    Revelation 1:12-16: “And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.”

    Matthew 16:27: “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”

    Matthew 24:30: “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

    Matt. 25:31: “When the Son of man of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:”

    Luke 21:27: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

    Mark 8:38: “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

    Mark 13:26: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.”

    John 17:5: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

    Revelation 19:11-16: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, with that it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
    Yes, for the Lord's glory to impact the mortal body of man, we must be transfigured into something immortal, in my view. We know that's true of us. But was it true of Jesus also? It seems so in the following passage...

    Luke 24.26 "Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”

    When did Jesus "enter his glory?" It wasn't at his resurrection, in my opinion. Rather, it was at his ascension, when he was seated on the right hand of God.

    Jesus did reveal the Father's glory while he was on earth. But Jesus talked about a 2nd revelation of God's glory, which I believe took place when he ascended on high, after his resurrection...

    John 7.39 Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

    This speaks of an event, following Jesus' death, in which the Spirit was given. It was either when Jesus breathed on his disciples the Holy Spirit, or it was on the Day of Pentecost. It's possible that Jesus was "glorified" in his death and resurrection. But it appears his *bodily glorification* took place when he "entered into his glory," at the right hand of God.

    For your consideration...

    John 12.16 Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that these things had been done to him.

    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Heb 1.3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

  6. #36
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Oh come on kyCyd, you are letting D. Taylor and walls philosophize you right out of being Christian. Randy is right. The glorified Christ will look nothing like an ordinary man. Here are a few of references:

    Revelation 1:12-16: “And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.”

    Matthew 16:27: “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”

    Matthew 24:30: “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

    Matt. 25:31: “When the Son of man of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:”

    Luke 21:27: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

    Mark 8:38: “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

    Mark 13:26: “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.”

    John 17:5: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

    Revelation 19:11-16: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, with that it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
    Deade, if you recall I already stated that I believe glorify and glorified belong to God, Jesus being God. I am aware of all those scriptures. I believe the form Jesus was in after resurrection that the disciples saw was the form we humans will be in, we will be clothed in different raiment as John saw. I believe when Jesus returns He will be in this form again and still be glorified. Humans will not be glorified we will be clothed in different raiment.

    Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

    Nowhere does it say humans will be glorified. Therefore when scriptures say we will be like Him to me that is talking about Jesus' form after resurrection and is the same form Jesus will return in.

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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post

    Are you saying that Jesus *immediately* ascended to God, even *before* his ascension?
    Yes I am, to me that is why Jesus waited till later to see the disciples is because He had ascended to the Father as He said.

    Of course I believe those things happened! I may not interpret what those things were the same way you do. Quite frankly, I don't understand at all how you're interpreting these things? Maybe you could explain how your view differs from my view? I think I've been pretty plain about what I believe. What do you believe that is different from this?
    In John 20:22, to me this is when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit I believe the disciples received it, so he already was glorified from seeing the Father earlier. As stated with John 7:39.

    I am having a hard time understanding why you think Jesus looks so different and what you expect to see upon His return and ruling of the world. I guess I am going by the eye witnesses. Maybe our differences is in the defining of the word "glorified" I don't know.

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    Re: What will we look like?

    Did I misunderstand the topic? This is about what WE will look like, not what Jesus is able to look like.

    Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    John could tell these people apart from each other even though they were clothed the same. To me this represents the resurrection body. So we look like ourselves. He could tell they were people of all nations. Jesus looked like himself in resurrection. We will look like ourselves with individual characteristics and tongues.

  9. #39
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Did I misunderstand the topic? This is about what WE will look like, not what Jesus is able to look like.

    Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    John could tell these people apart from each other even though they were clothed the same. To me this represents the resurrection body. So we look like ourselves. He could tell they were people of all nations. Jesus looked like himself in resurrection. We will look like ourselves with individual characteristics and tongues.
    Yeah, and there was no doubt in the minds of three Apostles that our Lord's companions on the Mount of Transfiguration were Elijah and Moses. While Elijah is not yet resurrected, Moses provides a mound of information
    1. Moses was recognized
    2. Moses was named
    3. Moses' body was fought for (Jude 1.9) for this event

    It makes one wonder what these other brothers are thinking. God made man in His image and likeness. God had a plan with man. God saves man when he fails. God resurrects this man so that he can be what he was made for in the first place. And then come a bunch of saints and say that God must scrap His plan because Satan, who had the power of death, has thwarted His plan. Perish the thought! In ALL the resurrections of the Bible up to now, those by Elijah, Elisha, Elish's bones, our Lord Jesus, Peter and Paul, IN EVERY CASE, the resurrected person was the same person - especially our Lord Jesus with His wounds.

    In closing, is it not a great proof that soon after our Lord Jesus was raised, a bunch of old Testament saints were raised as well. They went into the city and were KNOWN FOR WHO THEY WERE (Matt.27:52-53).

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    Re: What will we look like?

    MOD NOTE:

    A post with a personal attack and a question of someone's salvation has been moderated. That means the moderators can see it but no one else can. Also a post quoting that nonsense has been moderated as well.

    Continue the discussion, but those who make personal attacks will be called in for a chat with possible privileges deleted. This is a Christian forum. Behave that way.
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  11. #41
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Yes I am, to me that is why Jesus waited till later to see the disciples is because He had ascended to the Father as He said.



    In John 20:22, to me this is when Jesus gave the Holy Spirit I believe the disciples received it, so he already was glorified from seeing the Father earlier. As stated with John 7:39.

    I am having a hard time understanding why you think Jesus looks so different and what you expect to see upon His return and ruling of the world. I guess I am going by the eye witnesses. Maybe our differences is in the defining of the word "glorified" I don't know.
    Okay thanks--I understand your position more clearly now. I hadn't done much of a study on this concept of "glory" until fairly recently--maybe in the last couple of years or so--I'm not sure. I, for most of my life, believed that the resurrection body of Jesus was the glorified body of Jesus. But in recent years I began to think differently. As I studied this idea of our need to be "caught up to heaven," I asked myself, "Why did we have to be caught up to heaven? What is there in heaven that makes us need to go there before returning with Christ?"

    It was then that I realized the only reason we need to go to heaven is to meet Christ there *before* he returns. And the reason we must see him *before* returning with him is so that we may receive glorified bodies 1st, and then return with Christ in his own glory!

    A little logical deduction, and I realized that our own ascension to heaven is mirrored after Christ's own ascension to heaven. The only difference is, Christ ascended, and we are "caught up," or "seized." And so, we need help getting up there, and Christ had the Father to enable him to rise to heaven.

    And if it was our need to go to Christ before returning with him, donning glorious bodies like his glorious body, then Christ's must've received his glorious body in the same way, by ascending to the right hand of God. Only Christ ascended to the right hand of God, being God, and we ascend into heaven merely to meet with Christ. Christ himself enables us to receive, graciously, new glorified bodies.

    I do understand that Christ already had glory, from the time he appeared on earth. He was the image and glory of God. At the same time, I pointed out that there was also a future event by which Christ was to be glorified, and to further give glory to God. This involved his death, resurrection, and bodily glorification, I believe. The bodily glorification took place, as I said, after his resurrection and at his ascension, when he assumed his position on the right hand of God. It was only after this that the Spirit was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.

    You ask about the difference between the resurrected body of Jesus and the glorified body, which I feel took place at the ascension? As I said, the resurrection of Jesus was a healing of his mortal body, since he still had scars, which had shown healing took place. And he told Mary not to try to retain him for the very reason that he had not yet donned his new immortal body, which was necessary as a prerequisite to our obtaining hope for the same.

    We don't know what the glorified body of Jesus looks like, but I imagine it will still be recognizable as the human personality of Jesus. As Paul said in 1 Cor 15, we would be foolish to try to compare our present bodies with our future bodies--they will be completely different--a completely new creation. But that they will constitute a resurrection of the old person is beyond dispute. It will still be us!

    This is just my own current position, brother. I'm not argumentative about it. I just find it a fascinating topic--one that I've not yet completely explored. For example, I'm still interested in exploring the concept of "Gods' glory." And that's why I brought it up.

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    Re: What will we look like?

    Randy
    I really still am not getting your theory here.

    Even after I presented the I Corinthians 15 passages; that distinctly show there is a before and after representation of the resurrection.

    Let me ask in more clear words.

    It is of your view, that Jesus on Easter morning, was raised, recussitated, returned to normal mortal (albeit healed) life. (similar to Jairus Daughter, the Shumanite woman's son, Lazarus, Dorkas, etc...)?

    Is that what you are trying to say?

    And that Jesus did not received His 1 Corinthians 15 depicted resurrection body (immortal, incorruptible, etc) while Jesus was physically upon the Earth.

    (You believe He received it later, after the ascension, while in Heaven).

    Is that the correct summation of your view?

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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Okay thanks--I understand your position more clearly now. I hadn't done much of a study on this concept of "glory" until fairly recently--maybe in the last couple of years or so--I'm not sure. I, for most of my life, believed that the resurrection body of Jesus was the glorified body of Jesus. But in recent years I began to think differently. As I studied this idea of our need to be "caught up to heaven," I asked myself, "Why did we have to be caught up to heaven? What is there in heaven that makes us need to go there before returning with Christ?"

    It was then that I realized the only reason we need to go to heaven is to meet Christ there *before* he returns. And the reason we must see him *before* returning with him is so that we may receive glorified bodies 1st, and then return with Christ in his own glory!

    A little logical deduction, and I realized that our own ascension to heaven is mirrored after Christ's own ascension to heaven. The only difference is, Christ ascended, and we are "caught up," or "seized." And so, we need help getting up there, and Christ had the Father to enable him to rise to heaven.

    And if it was our need to go to Christ before returning with him, donning glorious bodies like his glorious body, then Christ's must've received his glorious body in the same way, by ascending to the right hand of God. Only Christ ascended to the right hand of God, being God, and we ascend into heaven merely to meet with Christ. Christ himself enables us to receive, graciously, new glorified bodies.

    I do understand that Christ already had glory, from the time he appeared on earth. He was the image and glory of God. At the same time, I pointed out that there was also a future event by which Christ was to be glorified, and to further give glory to God. This involved his death, resurrection, and bodily glorification, I believe. The bodily glorification took place, as I said, after his resurrection and at his ascension, when he assumed his position on the right hand of God. It was only after this that the Spirit was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.

    You ask about the difference between the resurrected body of Jesus and the glorified body, which I feel took place at the ascension? As I said, the resurrection of Jesus was a healing of his mortal body, since he still had scars, which had shown healing took place. And he told Mary not to try to retain him for the very reason that he had not yet donned his new immortal body, which was necessary as a prerequisite to our obtaining hope for the same.

    We don't know what the glorified body of Jesus looks like, but I imagine it will still be recognizable as the human personality of Jesus. As Paul said in 1 Cor 15, we would be foolish to try to compare our present bodies with our future bodies--they will be completely different--a completely new creation. But that they will constitute a resurrection of the old person is beyond dispute. It will still be us!

    This is just my own current position, brother. I'm not argumentative about it. I just find it a fascinating topic--one that I've not yet completely explored. For example, I'm still interested in exploring the concept of "Gods' glory." And that's why I brought it up.
    You could at least stay with things within scriptures. Maybe we are caught up because we are being called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. Maybe that happens prior to us returning with Him, we really don't know.

    Well you have an interesting imagination but your thoughts aren't really scriptural. I hope you aren't disappointed if Jesus is the only one glorified as the scripture states.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Okay thanks--I understand your position more clearly now. I hadn't done much of a study on this concept of "glory" until fairly recently--maybe in the last couple of years or so--I'm not sure. I, for most of my life, believed that the resurrection body of Jesus was the glorified body of Jesus. But in recent years I began to think differently. As I studied this idea of our need to be "caught up to heaven," I asked myself, "Why did we have to be caught up to heaven? What is there in heaven that makes us need to go there before returning with Christ?"

    It was then that I realized the only reason we need to go to heaven is to meet Christ there *before* he returns. And the reason we must see him *before* returning with him is so that we may receive glorified bodies 1st, and then return with Christ in his own glory!

    A little logical deduction, and I realized that our own ascension to heaven is mirrored after Christ's own ascension to heaven. The only difference is, Christ ascended, and we are "caught up," or "seized." And so, we need help getting up there, and Christ had the Father to enable him to rise to heaven.

    And if it was our need to go to Christ before returning with him, donning glorious bodies like his glorious body, then Christ's must've received his glorious body in the same way, by ascending to the right hand of God. Only Christ ascended to the right hand of God, being God, and we ascend into heaven merely to meet with Christ. Christ himself enables us to receive, graciously, new glorified bodies.

    I do understand that Christ already had glory, from the time he appeared on earth. He was the image and glory of God. At the same time, I pointed out that there was also a future event by which Christ was to be glorified, and to further give glory to God. This involved his death, resurrection, and bodily glorification, I believe. The bodily glorification took place, as I said, after his resurrection and at his ascension, when he assumed his position on the right hand of God. It was only after this that the Spirit was poured out on the Day of Pentecost.

    You ask about the difference between the resurrected body of Jesus and the glorified body, which I feel took place at the ascension? As I said, the resurrection of Jesus was a healing of his mortal body, since he still had scars, which had shown healing took place. And he told Mary not to try to retain him for the very reason that he had not yet donned his new immortal body, which was necessary as a prerequisite to our obtaining hope for the same.

    We don't know what the glorified body of Jesus looks like, but I imagine it will still be recognizable as the human personality of Jesus. As Paul said in 1 Cor 15, we would be foolish to try to compare our present bodies with our future bodies--they will be completely different--a completely new creation. But that they will constitute a resurrection of the old person is beyond dispute. It will still be us!

    This is just my own current position, brother. I'm not argumentative about it. I just find it a fascinating topic--one that I've not yet completely explored. For example, I'm still interested in exploring the concept of "Gods' glory." And that's why I brought it up.
    You could at least stay with things within scriptures. Maybe we are caught up because we are being called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. Maybe that happens prior to us returning with Him, we really don't know.

    Well you have an interesting imagination but your thoughts aren't really scriptural. I hope you aren't disappointed if Jesus is the only one glorified as the scripture states.

  14. #44
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    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post

    Nowhere does it say humans will be glorified.
    Overcomers will be glorified:

    1Pe_4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.


    1Pe_5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

    That is a royal glorification. Compare to this:

    Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


    Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
    Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post

    Nowhere does it say humans will be glorified.
    Overcomers will be glorified:

    1Pe_4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.


    1Pe_5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

    That is a royal glorification. Compare to this:

    Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


    Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
    Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  15. #45

    Re: What will we look like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK. I didn't expect more. But maybe somebody else will profit from our exchange. I will let my posting stand, but give one more proof - of course in the expectation that you will not counter it with scripture (the purpose of this Forum). Consider this:

    The gospel of John is very different to the other three. Theologians call Matthew, Mark and Luke the "synoptic" gospels. They present us with Christ in all His glory as a Man. John presents our Lord Jesus in all His glory as God. And the theme of the Gospel is to take up where Adam halted - the Tree of Life and how to get God into man so that man can partake of the divine life and be a Companion to, and House for, God. John 20:30-31 gives the purpose of the record of John.

    30 "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
    31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."


    John Chapter 1 starts with seven things to end up at "Bethel" - the House of God. Chapter 2 reveals a Wedding, Bride, Groom and God's House. Chapter 3 shows how a mere human can be up to the standard of God by a second, new, heavenly and spiritual birth. And so on. When we come to Chapter 14 we our Lord Jesus prophesies that He will go away to prepare a place for the disciples and return to dwell in them (Jn.14:1-3, 20). This, our Lord Jesus does. He dies to put away sins - the stumbling block to the Tree of Life, rests in Hades three days and rises. Shortly after rising He meets some women disciples and commands them not to touch Him as He had not been to the Father. But that evening, when all the disciples were gathered in a room, He appeared to them and;
    1. commanded that they touch and handle Him, showing that He had been to the Father
    2. breathed the Holy Spirit INTO His disciples, causing the Person of the Holy Spirit to be "with them and IN them" - making them the House of God

    In this, our Lord Jesus PRECISELY fulfilled John 14:1-3 & 20. He had gone away. He had gone away to prepare for them to be "abodes" (not mansions), returned and breathed Himself in the Person of the holy Spirit INTO them. That this was the rebirth is indicated by John 20:17b, "... but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." One cannot be "brethren" of Jesus without having the same Father, and one cannot have God as "our" Father without being born to Him. But an often neglected CONDITION is also fulfilled in connection with the disciples RECEIVING the Holy Spirit in John 20:22.

    In John 7:38-39 it reads;

    38 "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"


    That the Holy Spirit would be RECEIVED by the disciples is shown by the fact that OUT of a man who believes will flow the "rivers of living waters", which in the next verse is clearly said to be an issue of the Holy Spirit. But this Holy Spirit was to be held back and NOT GIVEN until our Lord Jesus was GLORIFIED. On the morning of resurrection day no-one may touch our Lord Jesus because He had not yet presented His blood to the Father (Heb.9:12), and not yet presented Himself as the "Firstfruits of the dead" to the Father - Who claims right to all firstfruits (1st Cor.15:20-23; Col.1:18). But then, that evening the disciples RECEIVED this Holy Spirit. This could only happen if our Lord Jesus WAS GLORIFIED!

    I respectfully submit that our Lord Jesus, on the day of resurrection, was GLORIFIED and no more changes to His Body were made after that. What happened at future events, as I submitted in my first posting, was not a new level of glorification, but an UNVEILING to a greater extent of what was already there.
    This verse agrees:

    who through him (Jesus) do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. 1 Peter 1:21

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