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Thread: Is salvation possible after death?

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    Is salvation possible after death?

    When do you see this happening?


    Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


    Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


    Why I am asking is this...I mean when this happens are those still thrown into the LoF?


    Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


    Is this to you talking after death...that souls will see the light?


    Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.


    Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.


    I realize this is a lot of questions but they all tie together...I am a believer in “all things are possible with God”. So the reason I am asking is are we being told in scriptures...that hell could be a penalty and that it is possible to pay that debt....see the light after death...and still be saved? What are your thoughts on what I laid out?


    Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    When do you see this happening?


    Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


    Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
    Paul places it at Judgment.

    Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.*
    Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.*
    Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.*


    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Why I am asking is this...I mean when this happens are those still thrown into the LoF?
    Depends....

    Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.*
    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.*
    Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.*
    Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.*



    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.


    Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.
    Elihu is saying if you repent and confess you will be delivered and continue living.


    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    I realize this is a lot of questions but they all tie together...I am a believer in “all things are possible with God”. So the reason I am asking is are we being told in scriptures...that hell could be a penalty and that it is possible to pay that debt....see the light after death...and still be saved? What are your thoughts on what I laid out?
    I think it depends on what's in the books and whether or not a persons name is in the BoL.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    When do you see this happening?


    Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


    Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


    Why I am asking is this...I mean when this happens are those still thrown into the LoF?


    Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


    Is this to you talking after death...that souls will see the light?


    Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.


    Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.


    I realize this is a lot of questions but they all tie together...I am a believer in “all things are possible with God”. So the reason I am asking is are we being told in scriptures...that hell could be a penalty and that it is possible to pay that debt....see the light after death...and still be saved? What are your thoughts on what I laid out?


    Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
    Salvation is during out mortal life.

    Their is a hertical doctrine call 'Universalism' that teaches all humans will be saved and gain eternal life, regardless of their rejection of Christ during their lives on the earth; or that they will get a second-change for salvation after death.

    This is an untendable teaching from scriptures.

    During our mortal lives, is when we are accountable to repent or face the judgment.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post

    I think it depends on what's in the books and whether or not a persons name is in the BoL.
    Thanks for the info on Job...I guess the rest depends on the book of life.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Salvation is during out mortal life.

    Their is a hertical doctrine call 'Universalism' that teaches all humans will be saved and gain eternal life, regardless of their rejection of Christ during their lives on the earth; or that they will get a second-change for salvation after death.

    This is an untendable teaching from scriptures.

    During our mortal lives, is when we are accountable to repent or face the judgment.
    I did not realize there was teaching of that, I am just going by what I have seen in scriptures.

    So to you when Lazarus and the rich man died...the rich man saw Lazarus, ask for mercy and recognized his errors. Plus the scriptures:

    Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

    Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

    You don't see any possibility?

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    In a word, no. Hebrews 9:27 addresses this. "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die ONCE and after this the judgment." This verse also does away with "reincarnation."

    IN GOD THE SON,
    maverick

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    I did not realize there was teaching of that, I am just going by what I have seen in scriptures.

    So to you when Lazarus and the rich man died...the rich man saw Lazarus, ask for mercy and recognized his errors. Plus the scriptures:

    Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

    Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

    You don't see any possibility?
    'Hell' used in Psalm's 139, is meaning the grave, tomb, place the dead body is stored in the ground.

    The story of Lazurus and the rich man, is showing that there is no salvation after death.
    The Rich man was told, when he was concerned his brothers would come to his place of torment, that they have the moses and the prophets to listen to (during their lives), and even the example of Jesus rising from the dead (foreshadow).
    That is their time of salvation; not after death when they are in the torments. At that point, there is no water, no relief, no return.

    As for Isaiah, some of Israel will be saved; and will be saved eternally.
    Jacob, Daniel, Peter, Paul, etc...are representatives of those of Israel who have received eternal salvation.

    However; there are also those of Israel, who preferred sin and rejection of the Lord; who's place is the eternal punishment. (Ahab, Jereboam, Herod, Judas Iscariot, etc....)

    Only those who repent and seek the Lord during their lives, have the opportunity of salvation.

    We also must be careful in assuming people's destiny; we never truly know someone's heart; or someone's outreach with the Lord at the time preceeding their deaths.
    There can be unknown deathbed repentence. Had someone in the hometown of the theif on the cross been asked if he would inherit heaven, they would likely have said, no way, based on his life of wickedness and leachery; not knowing at all of the conversation, repentance, and change of heart the theif had with Jesus during his final moments hanging on the cross.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    'Hell' used in Psalm's 139, is meaning the grave, tomb, place the dead body is stored in the ground.

    The story of Lazurus and the rich man, is showing that there is no salvation after death.
    The Rich man was told, when he was concerned his brothers would come to his place of torment, that they have the moses and the prophets to listen to (during their lives), and even the example of Jesus rising from the dead (foreshadow).
    That is their time of salvation; not after death when they are in the torments. At that point, there is no water, no relief, no return.

    As for Isaiah, some of Israel will be saved; and will be saved eternally.
    Jacob, Daniel, Peter, Paul, etc...are representatives of those of Israel who have received eternal salvation.

    However; there are also those of Israel, who preferred sin and rejection of the Lord; who's place is the eternal punishment. (Ahab, Jereboam, Herod, Judas Iscariot, etc....)

    Only those who repent and seek the Lord during their lives, have the opportunity of salvation.

    We also must be careful in assuming people's destiny; we never truly know someone's heart; or someone's outreach with the Lord at the time preceeding their deaths.
    There can be unknown deathbed repentence. Had someone in the hometown of the theif on the cross been asked if he would inherit heaven, they would likely have said, no way, based on his life of wickedness and leachery; not knowing at all of the conversation, repentance, and change of heart the theif had with Jesus during his final moments hanging on the cross.
    Thanks for taking the time to answer...I do see what you are saying.

    Do you have scriptures for this belief of repent and seeking God for salvation OT? I guess I see more people receiving life (salvation) than most people. To me this scripture covers a lot of people. Your thoughts?

    Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

    To me calling upon the name of the Lord is seeking Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    'Hell' used in Psalm's 139, is meaning the grave, tomb, place the dead body is stored in the ground.

    The story of Lazurus and the rich man, is showing that there is no salvation after death.
    The Rich man was told, when he was concerned his brothers would come to his place of torment, that they have the moses and the prophets to listen to (during their lives), and even the example of Jesus rising from the dead (foreshadow).
    That is their time of salvation; not after death when they are in the torments. At that point, there is no water, no relief, no return.

    As for Isaiah, some of Israel will be saved; and will be saved eternally.
    Jacob, Daniel, Peter, Paul, etc...are representatives of those of Israel who have received eternal salvation.

    However; there are also those of Israel, who preferred sin and rejection of the Lord; who's place is the eternal punishment. (Ahab, Jereboam, Herod, Judas Iscariot, etc....)

    Only those who repent and seek the Lord during their lives, have the opportunity of salvation.

    We also must be careful in assuming people's destiny; we never truly know someone's heart; or someone's outreach with the Lord at the time preceeding their deaths.
    There can be unknown deathbed repentence. Had someone in the hometown of the theif on the cross been asked if he would inherit heaven, they would likely have said, no way, based on his life of wickedness and leachery; not knowing at all of the conversation, repentance, and change of heart the theif had with Jesus during his final moments hanging on the cross.
    Thanks for taking the time to answer...I do see what you are saying.

    Do you have scriptures for this belief of repent and seeking God for salvation OT? I guess I see more people receiving life (salvation) than most people. To me this scripture covers a lot of people. Your thoughts?

    Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

    To me calling upon the name of the Lord is seeking Him.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to answer...I do see what you are saying.

    Do you have scriptures for this belief of repent and seeking God for salvation OT? I guess I see more people receiving life (salvation) than most people. To me this scripture covers a lot of people. Your thoughts?

    Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

    To me calling upon the name of the Lord is seeking Him.
    Here are a couple of clear and direct scriptures from Jeremiah.

    Jeremiah 18:30 "every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit...wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

    29:13 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. And I will be found of you, saith the LORD

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    When do you see this happening?


    Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


    Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


    Why I am asking is this...I mean when this happens are those still thrown into the LoF?


    Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


    Is this to you talking after death...that souls will see the light?


    Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.


    Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.


    I realize this is a lot of questions but they all tie together...I am a believer in “all things are possible with God”. So the reason I am asking is are we being told in scriptures...that hell could be a penalty and that it is possible to pay that debt....see the light after death...and still be saved? What are your thoughts on what I laid out?


    Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
    Let me ask you a question kycyd? Where did you get the idea that once you die you will get a second chance? I'm asking because this is what the Mormon church teaches. Please read the following article.

    https://www.mormon.org/site/purpose-...ns-when-we-die Please tell me your not going to believe what this cult teaches? And btw, they also baptize for the dead. I also ask you to take heed to 2 Corinthians 6:1-2. Now is the day of salvation.

    IN GOD THE SON,
    james

  11. #11

    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    The way anyone understands this will depend on the way he views the 1,000 years, whether its literal, or not?

    I view the 1,000 years as literal. The first resurrection is those who died in Christ, and occurs at the end of the age, when He sends His angels to gather His elect at the last trumpet, immediately prior to His return to earth.

    Zechariah 14 compared with Revelation says there will be s few survivors left when God's wrath is poured out upon the world (it's still 1,000 years before the final Great White Throne judgment), and they will produce offspring during the millennium. The same cycle of birth, life and death will contimue for man until the final resurrection.

    The 2nd resurrection is all the others who have "fallen asleep" and were not raised with Christ at the close of this age - Great White Throne judgment (final judgment).

    Those who are not found in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire - notice that the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire at the start of the 1,000 years, but the 2nd death when all not found written in the book of life also go there, is only found at the close of the 1,000 years:

    "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. " (Rev 21:8).

    "And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur." (Rev 19:20).

    The Revelation clearly makes a separation of 1,000 years between the casting into the lake of fire of the beast and false prophet, and all the resurrected dead and the dragon at the close of the 1,000 years and Great White Throne judgment.

    .. and nowhere is there the slightest hint that anyone whose name is not found in the book of Life will escape.

    Every knee shall bow to Jesus.

    Why?

    Because He is the judge at the time of the Great White Throne judgment.

    He will subdue all His enemies. "The last enemy to be subdued is death" simply means that those who are found in the book of Life will never die a second death. The 2nd death is the final death, when death is destroyed in the case of those whose names are found written in the book of Life.

    In other words, death is destroyed at the time of the 2nd death, because Christ is the resurrection and the Life and those IN HIM will never die once they have been resurrected:

    "Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. " (Rev 20:6).

    Notice it does not say they will reign with Him forever and ever:

    "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
    For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.

    For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

    (all will be made alive at the close of the 1,000 years according to Revelation - but those not found in the BoL will die a 2nd death).

    But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

    (the 1st resurrection)

    Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
    For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

    The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

    For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when it says, all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.

    When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all." (I Cor 15:20-28).

    Nowhere does it say that those whose names are not in the book of Life will live forever. It's says they will die a 2nd death, and this will be the end of death.

    To me the question is only, "will they still have a consciousness, making them aware of their eternal death"?

    It's a more horrible thought than I could ever think of, and I prefer to leave it up to God.

    I've known of incredible evil and cruelty committed by human beings who have no conscience against other human beings, and they do it over and over, taking pleasure in their cruelty. On one hand, I don't like the idea of people like that getting off "scott-free". On the other hand, someone being eternally aware of his eternal death is more ghastly than anything else I could imagine. Also, what about the pleasant, "good" people who rejected God all their lives?

    I trust God. I trust His judgments. I don't concern myself too much with things that have not yet come. I concern myself with the here and now, and with how to share the gospel to a world full of people whose ears are blocked and who don't want to take the earphones out their ears for long enough to hear anything except the music they are listening to.

    The only time that exists in the universe right now, is right now. The future is not here yet, and even when it comes it will be just as short-lived as right now. The past has floated away into the universe and been sucked into whichever black hole it is that sucks time into non-existence when it has passed.

    Time only exists right now. The rest is an illusion. The Great White Throne Judgment has already happened, and it will happen - but it's happening right now. Eternal Life is right now. It started when you believed, but you only live now.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Here are a couple of clear and direct scriptures from Jeremiah.

    Jeremiah 18:30 "every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit...wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

    29:13 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. And I will be found of you, saith the LORD
    Thanks for the scriptures...you didn't reply to the scripture I posted though and curious of your thoughts regarding this and people prior to Abraham.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Here are a couple of clear and direct scriptures from Jeremiah.

    Jeremiah 18:30 "every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit...wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."

    29:13 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. And I will be found of you, saith the LORD
    Thanks for the scriptures...you didn't reply to the scripture I posted though and curious of your thoughts regarding this and people prior to Abraham.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by maverick View Post
    Let me ask you a question kycyd? Where did you get the idea that once you die you will get a second chance? I'm asking because this is what the Mormon church teaches. Please read the following article.

    https://www.mormon.org/site/purpose-...ns-when-we-die Please tell me your not going to believe what this cult teaches? And btw, they also baptize for the dead. I also ask you to take heed to 2 Corinthians 6:1-2. Now is the day of salvation.

    IN GOD THE SON,
    james
    No I am not Mormon and did not know that they even taught this. I asked simply because of things I had noticed in scriptures. That was the only reason I asked. Seeing others different looks at certain scriptures I had brought up helped. Just wondering about all the people and people in OT before even Abraham. To me there had to be something that gave some of those life. Jesus said all that was the Fathers was His. God said “all souls are mine”. So just wondering on these things.

    My lack of understanding of the Job scriptures didn't help either. So it helped having others understandings. This was a place to ask the questions. There are many knowledgeable people here.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by m'lo goy View Post

    I trust God. I trust His judgments. I don't concern myself too much with things that have not yet come. I concern myself with the here and now, and with how to share the gospel to a world full of people whose ears are blocked and who don't want to take the earphones out their ears for long enough to hear anything except the music they are listening to.

    The only time that exists in the universe right now, is right now. The future is not here yet, and even when it comes it will be just as short-lived as right now. The past has floated away into the universe and been sucked into whichever black hole it is that sucks time into non-existence when it has passed.

    Time only exists right now. The rest is an illusion. The Great White Throne Judgment has already happened, and it will happen - but it's happening right now. Eternal Life is right now. It started when you believed, but you only live now.
    I take the 1000 years as literal. However, I will say this, I wouldn't be surprised if I am wrong. Only the Lord knows for sure. I always have 2Pe 3:13 that I am aware of. So I just trust the Lord and look for His coming. We were told to watch and I do.

    I don't believe the Great White Throne Judgment has happened, I believe that happens after the 1000 years. I agree about the book of life...therein lay if people have life or not.

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    Re: Is salvation possible after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by maverick View Post
    Let me ask you a question kycyd? Where did you get the idea that once you die you will get a second chance? I'm asking because this is what the Mormon church teaches. Please read the following article.

    https://www.mormon.org/site/purpose-...ns-when-we-die Please tell me your not going to believe what this cult teaches? And btw, they also baptize for the dead. I also ask you to take heed to 2 Corinthians 6:1-2. Now is the day of salvation.

    IN GOD THE SON,
    james
    PS re your link: I don't agree with the link you sent about death...they use no scriptures too.. this is what happens to the spirit. I believe it is the soul that keeps living...it is the soul that goes to heaven or hell.

    Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

    Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

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