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Thread: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

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  1. #1

    What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    We see this verse in Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

    "27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

    Christ refers to it in Matthew 24:15(KJV)

    "15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"

    The Jewish Rabbis have pushed the view that it was when in 167 B.C. a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus Epiphanies set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offerings in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. He also sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Temple in Jerusalem.

    But it doesn't fit, as Jesus declared it looking forward in time, not backwards, and the Jewish nation continued along with the sacrifices as we see at the beginning of Matthew 24 as Jesus was telling the disciples what was going to happen:

    Matthew 24 King James Version (KJV)1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
    2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    So lets start with what was this desolation that would befall them?



    desolation


    • a state of complete emptiness or destruction.
      "the stony desolation of the desert"
      synonyms: barrenness, bleakness, starkness, bareness, dismalness, grimness; Morearidity, sterility;
      wildness;
      isolation, solitude, solitariness, loneliness, remoteness
      "the arid, stony desolation of the Gobi desert"



      antonyms: fertility



      • anguished misery or loneliness.
        "in choked desolation, she watched him leave"
        synonyms: misery, sadness, unhappiness, melancholy, gloom, gloominess, glumness, despondency, sorrow, depression, grief, mournfulness, woe; More







  2. #2

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Now Jesus was talking about something that had happen before, and now was repeating again. We find what Daniel was talking about in the destruction of the first temple that caused desolation in the time of Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, who took Daniel and his three friends prisoners back to Babylon.

    Jeremiah 25 King James Version (KJV)

    1 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that was the first year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon;
    2 The which Jeremiah the prophet spake unto all the people of Judah, and to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying,
    3 From the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, even unto this day, that is the three and twentieth year, the word of the Lord hath come unto me, and I have spoken unto you, rising early and speaking; but ye have not hearkened.
    4 And the Lord hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.
    5 They said, Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the Lord hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever:
    6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt.
    7 Yet ye have not hearkened unto me, saith the Lord; that ye might provoke me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt.
    8 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts; Because ye have not heard my words,
    9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.
    10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.
    11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

    So we get a clue as to what caused the desolation and the severity of it on the whole land. The Temple was destroyed and the people killed or taken prisoners, and the worship in Jerusalem severely affected. So what "abomination" made this "desolation" then and in the time of Jesus that would again cause the rebuilt Temple to again be destroyed, and how long would it be as we see the "seventy years" the first one lasted.

  3. #3
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    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    I've been posting a quite a bit on this lately. I see the AoD as a term applied to both Antiochus 4 and the Roman Army in 66-70 AD. We read about Antiochus in Dan 8 and 11-12. We read about the Roman Army, destroying the city and the sanctuary, in Dan 9. When Jesus gave his Olivet Discourse he was referring not to Antiochus 4, but rather, to the Roman Army. This is very, very clear in Luke 21.

    I've had a number of detractors, who claim that although Luke 21 talks about the Roman Army, they think the synoptic authors said something very different, that the AoD in Matt 24 and Mar 13 refers to the Antichrist. But this would contradict Luke 21, and render the Olivet Discourse a confused array of views! Not only so, but Antichrist is not even mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

    Clearly, I'm on safe ground to claim that the AoD is the Roman Army. Jesus said it would all take place in his own generation. That couldn't be clearer. However, the fact Jesus was also asked about his 2nd Coming at the same time has tended to confuse things for many of us. I believe Jesus was not emphasizing eschatology as much as showing how future prophecy related to his own day. The way they behaved in their own day would reflect upon their future place in God's Kingdom.

  4. #4

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I've been posting a quite a bit on this lately. I see the AoD as a term applied to both Antiochus 4 and the Roman Army in 66-70 AD. We read about Antiochus in Dan 8 and 11-12. We read about the Roman Army, destroying the city and the sanctuary, in Dan 9. When Jesus gave his Olivet Discourse he was referring not to Antiochus 4, but rather, to the Roman Army. This is very, very clear in Luke 21.

    I've had a number of detractors, who claim that although Luke 21 talks about the Roman Army, they think the synoptic authors said something very different, that the AoD in Matt 24 and Mar 13 refers to the Antichrist. But this would contradict Luke 21, and render the Olivet Discourse a confused array of views! Not only so, but Antichrist is not even mentioned in the Olivet Discourse.

    Clearly, I'm on safe ground to claim that the AoD is the Roman Army. Jesus said it would all take place in his own generation. That couldn't be clearer. However, the fact Jesus was also asked about his 2nd Coming at the same time has tended to confuse things for many of us. I believe Jesus was not emphasizing eschatology as much as showing how future prophecy related to his own day. The way they behaved in their own day would reflect upon their future place in God's Kingdom.
    Well, look at the time of Daniel and we see the desolation by "Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof". So it seems clear that this was going to be repeated and the destruction of Jerusalem, was to again happen. But their was also the destruction of the Temple, which was devastating and caused a complete cessation of their sacrifices and worship as they had done since the time they left Egypt. So we see the 'desolation' but what caused the 'abomination' of the whole nation of the Jews that caused that destruction. They were doing everything they could in fact I would say obsesses to prevent that the Romans should come and take away both their place and nation.

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    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Well, look at the time of Daniel and we see the desolation by "Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof". So it seems clear that this was going to be repeated and the destruction of Jerusalem, was to again happen. But their was also the destruction of the Temple, which was devastating and caused a complete cessation of their sacrifices and worship as they had done since the time they left Egypt. So we see the 'desolation' but what caused the 'abomination' of the whole nation of the Jews that caused that destruction. They were doing everything they could in fact I would say obsesses to prevent that the Romans should come and take away both their place and nation.
    No doubt the Jews fought back against the Romans. They weren't going to roll over, as long as they believed God was still with them. At the time of the Maccabees, God was apparently with some of them. But at the time of the Romans, in 70 AD, God was clearly no longer with them.

    On both occasions, during Antiochus 4's reign, and during the invasion of the Roman Army, an "abomination of desolation" was inflicted upon the Jews. The "desolation" refers to the destruction of the Jewish People, and to their form of worship. The "abomination" refers to a pagan desecration of Jewish worship, involving a pagan encroachment upon holy territory and the imposition of emperor worship.

  6. #6

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No doubt the Jews fought back against the Romans. They weren't going to roll over, as long as they believed God was still with them. At the time of the Maccabees, God was apparently with some of them. But at the time of the Romans, in 70 AD, God was clearly no longer with them.

    On both occasions, during Antiochus 4's reign, and during the invasion of the Roman Army, an "abomination of desolation" was inflicted upon the Jews. The "desolation" refers to the destruction of the Jewish People, and to their form of worship. The "abomination" refers to a pagan desecration of Jewish worship, involving a pagan encroachment upon holy territory and the imposition of emperor worship.
    No, you have to understand it was the Jews that had rejected what God had given them and fell into a abomination that caused the desolation. Antiochus, as already made clear, doesn't fit, as Jesus declared it looking forward in time, not backwards.

    You need to compare Daniels time of the destruction of the first temple. Christ points us to Daniel, and we see in Daniel 11:31: “31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.” Daniel 11:31(KJV)

    This shows this issue is tied to the relationship between God and His people and the accompanying worship to God, their rejection first of this, being contrary to the worship God deserves which caused the ruin of that nation. We see what it was in a warning given them previosly:

    Leviticus 26 King James Version (KJV)

    1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.
    2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.
    3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
    4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
    5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
    6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land....

    ...14 But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
    15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
    16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
    17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
    18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
    19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
    20 And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
    21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
    22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
    23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
    24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
    25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
    26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
    27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
    28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
    29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
    30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
    31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
    32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it."

    At the time of Daniel they had what Solomon built for God what’s probably been the most magnificent sanctuary on earth. Yet Solomon also added worship places for his wives’ false gods in the start of what the Bible refers to as an “abomination.”

    "For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites."1 Kings 11:5.

    "Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon." 1 Kings 11:7.

    Putting another god in place of the true God is abominable, it is a detestable act which leads to desolation when Gods protecting power is withdrawn. When Daniel wrote about the “abomination of desolation,” the first sanctuary or Solomons Temple in Jerusalem had been destroyed in the attack of the Babylonians. But Daniel also wrote about the sanctuary being restored which was fulfilled by the rebuilding of the second temple, and they could again come and worship God.

    But because of their sin and with the rejection of the Son of God, Christ the Messiah, they again reached a level of "Abomination" that was detestable to God. It led to the destruction of the Second Temple and thus the “Desolation” is the result of what you get without God.

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    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    No, you have to understand it was the Jews that had rejected what God had given them and fell into a abomination that caused the desolation. Antiochus, as already made clear, doesn't fit, as Jesus declared it looking forward in time, not backwards.

    You need to compare Daniels time of the destruction of the first temple. Christ points us to Daniel, and we see in Daniel 11:31: “31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.” Daniel 11:31(KJV)

    This shows this issue is tied to the relationship between God and His people and the accompanying worship to God, their rejection first of this, being contrary to the worship God deserves which caused the ruin of that nation. ...
    Some interpret the "abomination of desolation" to be a rebellion committed by the Jewish People. Indeed, during Antiochus 4's exploits he utilized Jewish rebellion against the religious orthodoxy of the day to paganize Jewish religion.

    My own view is that this "rebellion" referred more, in Antiochus' time, to what Antiochus himself was doing in "rebelling" against God. Although he utilized compromising Jews in this "rebellion," the rebellion was his, and he was revolting against God Himself.

    We see the same thing in 2 Thes 2, where Paul speaks of the Antichrist and his "rebellion" against God. And so, when I interpret the "abomination of desolation," mentioned by Jesus in Matt 24.15, I believe it is a reference to the attempted establishment of pagan religion in Israel, and specifically to the incursion of a pagan Roman Army into the "holy place," which was the area around Jerusalem.

    This was a Roman revolt against God, by establishing emperor worship in the very place where God had asked the Jews to worship Himself alone. It may have foreshadowed the coming of Antichrist, who likewise will take his seat in the temple of God, which is another way of saying he will put the worship of himself in the place of worship of the true God.

    Jesus specifically described this as "eagles gathering in the place of a corpse." The Romans had pagan eagle symbols, accompanied by a sign of emperor worship, upon their standards. The encirclement of these Romans troops apparently constituted, for Jesus, an incursion into the holy place, since it was an encroachment upon the territory surrounding and protecting the temple. It was, in every sense, a rebellion against God Himself, as this pagan Army thought nothing to replacing Jewish monotheism with emperor worship.

  8. #8

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Some interpret the "abomination of desolation" to be a rebellion committed by the Jewish People. Indeed, during Antiochus 4's exploits he utilized Jewish rebellion against the religious orthodoxy of the day to paganize Jewish religion.

    My own view is that this "rebellion" referred more, in Antiochus' time, to what Antiochus himself was doing in "rebelling" against God. Although he utilized compromising Jews in this "rebellion," the rebellion was his, and he was revolting against God Himself.

    We see the same thing in 2 Thes 2, where Paul speaks of the Antichrist and his "rebellion" against God. And so, when I interpret the "abomination of desolation," mentioned by Jesus in Matt 24.15, I believe it is a reference to the attempted establishment of pagan religion in Israel, and specifically to the incursion of a pagan Roman Army into the "holy place," which was the area around Jerusalem.

    This was a Roman revolt against God, by establishing emperor worship in the very place where God had asked the Jews to worship Himself alone. It may have foreshadowed the coming of Antichrist, who likewise will take his seat in the temple of God, which is another way of saying he will put the worship of himself in the place of worship of the true God.

    Jesus specifically described this as "eagles gathering in the place of a corpse." The Romans had pagan eagle symbols, accompanied by a sign of emperor worship, upon their standards. The encirclement of these Romans troops apparently constituted, for Jesus, an incursion into the holy place, since it was an encroachment upon the territory surrounding and protecting the temple. It was, in every sense, a rebellion against God Himself, as this pagan Army thought nothing to replacing Jewish monotheism with emperor worship.
    As I already pointed out, he doesn't fit as Christ was clear that it was to come as it plainly did when the Romans basically desolated the Jews and their land till 1948 and still they cant get control of the site where the Temple (and worship site) stood.

  9. #9
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    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No doubt the Jews fought back against the Romans. They weren't going to roll over, as long as they believed God was still with them. At the time of the Maccabees, God was apparently with some of them. But at the time of the Romans, in 70 AD, God was clearly no longer with them.

    On both occasions, during Antiochus 4's reign, and during the invasion of the Roman Army, an "abomination of desolation" was inflicted upon the Jews. The "desolation" refers to the destruction of the Jewish People, and to their form of worship. The "abomination" refers to a pagan desecration of Jewish worship, involving a pagan encroachment upon holy territory and the imposition of emperor worship.
    I agree in the main with your last sentence, but there is a point that might cause the events of Antiochus and Titus to have nothing to to do with what Daniel Predicted in Chapter 9.

    When Solomon's Temple was completed the glory of God filled it. But of the Temple built by Zerubbabel we have no such record. In Ezra the old men wept when they saw the new building as it was not nearly up to the standard of Solomon's. But God answers in Haggai 2:1-9 that the glory of this second House would supersede that of the first. Again we have nor record of this. But what this House had that was greater than the first House, was that our Lord Jesus entered it. Solomon's House for God housed the Almighty, Creator and God of pure justice. Was there are greater glory than this? Yes. Our Lord Jesus was the Almighty, Creator and in Him God fulfilled pure justice AND THEN HE COULD EXTEND MERCY AND RECOVERY. Thus, Christ's presence in that Temple, though He probably never went into the Holy of Holies as a Judean and not a Levite, was the GREATER GLORY OF GOD.

    If this is true, then the House that our Lord Jesus called "my Father's House" in John Chapter 2, only became that House when our Lord was presented at age 12 (Lk.2:49). And at age 33˝ years, our Lord Jesus, having been rejected and accused of acting under the inspiration of Beelzebub, told the Jews in Matthew 23:38 and Luke 13:35 ...

    "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

    This verse shows a number of things;
    • Whereas in John 2:16 our Lord Jesus called this House "MY Father's House", here He calls it "YOUR House". He no longer associates the Temple with Jehovah
    • This House is "LEFT" desolate. That is, because our Lord Jesus would grace it no more, and LEFT it, it is considered by the Holy Spirit as "desolate"
    • The glory and presence of God in this House is bound to Jesus. By Him being NOT SEEN anymore, He makes it desolate. This also confirms my theory above that Zerubbabel's Temple only enjoyed God's glory when our Lord Jesus had graced it

    Thus, the historical record of Antiochus 4 and the historical record of Titus, DO NOT MAKE ZERUBBABEL'S TEMPLE "DESOLATE" BECAUSE IT WAS DESOLATE UNTIL OUR LORD JESUS ENTERED IT AND MADE "DESOLATE" AGAIN WHEN HE DESERTED IT.

    Why do I point this out? Simply because the prophecy of Daniel in Chapter 9 points to a single event at the close of the the gospel age. Attributing a string of other events to Daniel to try to force it to have been fulfilled is not warranted.

  10. #10

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I agree in the main with your last sentence, but there is a point that might cause the events of Antiochus and Titus to have nothing to to do with what Daniel Predicted in Chapter 9.

    When Solomon's Temple was completed the glory of God filled it. But of the Temple built by Zerubbabel we have no such record. In Ezra the old men wept when they saw the new building as it was not nearly up to the standard of Solomon's. But God answers in Haggai 2:1-9 that the glory of this second House would supersede that of the first. Again we have nor record of this. But what this House had that was greater than the first House, was that our Lord Jesus entered it. Solomon's House for God housed the Almighty, Creator and God of pure justice. Was there are greater glory than this? Yes. Our Lord Jesus was the Almighty, Creator and in Him God fulfilled pure justice AND THEN HE COULD EXTEND MERCY AND RECOVERY. Thus, Christ's presence in that Temple, though He probably never went into the Holy of Holies as a Judean and not a Levite, was the GREATER GLORY OF GOD.

    If this is true, then the House that our Lord Jesus called "my Father's House" in John Chapter 2, only became that House when our Lord was presented at age 12 (Lk.2:49). And at age 33˝ years, our Lord Jesus, having been rejected and accused of acting under the inspiration of Beelzebub, told the Jews in Matthew 23:38 and Luke 13:35 ...

    "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

    This verse shows a number of things;
    • Whereas in John 2:16 our Lord Jesus called this House "MY Father's House", here He calls it "YOUR House". He no longer associates the Temple with Jehovah
    • This House is "LEFT" desolate. That is, because our Lord Jesus would grace it no more, and LEFT it, it is considered by the Holy Spirit as "desolate"
    • The glory and presence of God in this House is bound to Jesus. By Him being NOT SEEN anymore, He makes it desolate. This also confirms my theory above that Zerubbabel's Temple only enjoyed God's glory when our Lord Jesus had graced it

    Thus, the historical record of Antiochus 4 and the historical record of Titus, DO NOT MAKE ZERUBBABEL'S TEMPLE "DESOLATE" BECAUSE IT WAS DESOLATE UNTIL OUR LORD JESUS ENTERED IT AND MADE "DESOLATE" AGAIN WHEN HE DESERTED IT.

    Why do I point this out? Simply because the prophecy of Daniel in Chapter 9 points to a single event at the close of the the gospel age. Attributing a string of other events to Daniel to try to force it to have been fulfilled is not warranted.
    Read what Jesus says:

    "36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
    39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Matthew 23:36-39

    Notice He says "All these things shall come upon this generation....your house is left unto you desolate." It is repeated but with more in Luke 13:

    "32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
    33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
    34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!" Luke 13:32-34.

    Now at the time of Daniel we see that Jerusalem was told of their "abomination" and warned of the consequences. We read before the destruction of Solomon's first temple the Jews had been given a warning by Ezekiel:

    "Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye multiplied more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my judgments, neither have done according to the judgments of the nations that are round about you;8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations.9 And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations.” Ezekiel 5:5-9 (KJV)

    “11 Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord God; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.” Ezekiel 5:11 (KJV)

    Now further on in Ezekiel in Chapter 6, he prophesize the results of the abomination and in Chapter 8, laid out what it:

    "5 Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.7 And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.8 Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.9 And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the Lord seeth us not; the Lord hath forsaken the earth.13 He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.15 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them." Ezekiel 8:5-18 (KJV)

    It was the "abominations which they commit here" in the worship which even extended to worship in the Temple. The desolation of the 'abomination' of worship is found in straightforward in Daniel 1. "In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and beseiged it. And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god" (Daniel 1:1,2).

    Here Daniel reveals the abomination of desolation in his time led to Jerusalem's fall and captivity, and it even says not only the king of the land:

    "5 Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord his God.
    6 Against him came up Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and bound him in fetters, to carry him to Babylon.
    7 Nebuchadnezzar also carried of the vessels of the house of the Lord to Babylon, and put them in his temple at Babylon.
    8 Now the rest of the acts of Jehoiakim, and his abominations which he did, and that which was found in him, behold, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his stead.

    Notice Jehoiakim “did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord his God.": "Now the rest of the acts of Jehoiakim, and his abominations which he did, and that which was found in him, behold, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah:".

    But it wasn't just a misstep by one person but by the religious leaders and the people:

    "14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem. 2 Chronicles 36:14.

    Notice, "moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen".

    God's political and religious leaders, as well as the people, adopted heathen ways as their own and away from God and true worship at the expense of God's revealed truth. Notice the people "transgressed" abominations that were standing in God's consecrated holy place, the "house of the Lord."

    The religious leaders of the day had knowingly led the people to adopt heathen worship practices and incorporated them into their worship of God and it was happening again at the time of Jesus. Notice He called them out on it:

    "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9

    "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Mark 7:7.

    Notice Jesus clearly says its about worship and He was talking to the religious leaders and making clear they again had led the people to adopt heathen worship practices and incorporated them into their worship of God. In substituting for God's commandments the traditions of men, the leaders of God's people provoked the desolation at the time of Daniels and did it in Jesus time.

  11. #11

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    I believe the abomination that causes desolation is the crucifixion of Jesus, the rejection of the very Word of God by men. Men who were standing in the holy place.

  12. #12

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe the abomination that causes desolation is the crucifixion of Jesus, the rejection of the very Word of God by men. Men who were standing in the holy place.
    Yes, the rejection of the word given them by the prophets and the law in the time of Daniel, and then when Jesus came, the rejection the very Word of God along with His death on the cross.

    Not only did they reject the what God gave them but they fought the soldiers in the Temple, which they were forbidden to enter except for the High Priest, much less fight in the Temple. Look at 2 Chronicles 36:17 in the fight against the soldiers of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon...

    "17 Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand." 2 Chronicles 36:17

    At the time of Daniel the people rejected God's calls to repentance and reformation and were left to reap the consequences. The result was felt not only by the people but in the complete destruction of the city and sanctuary. The result of God's people practicing the religious abominations of the heathen was the desolation of their land, city and sanctuary for 70 years.

    Now compare to what happened with the Romans when the Jews again entered into the Temple and fought the Roman Legion coming at them..."The Zealots and the Sicarii retreated to the Temple. The Roman legion, after several attempts at breaching the walls, set fire to the Holy Temple. The site that once gave thousands of Jewish people hope was destroyed. God, it seemed, was no longer in the city. This was the most devastating Roman blow to Judaea. The rest of the city was plundered and burned to the ground soon after the Temple fell. "https://www.ancient.eu/article/823/the-great-jewish-revolt-of-66-ce/

    "The boundless riches from the Temple treasury were used to strike coins with the legend JUDAEA CAPTA ("Judaea defeated"). "https://www.livius.org/articles/concept/roman-jewish-wars/roman-jewish-wars-4/

    " The Jews' Great Revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. led to one of the greatest catastrophes in Jewish life and, in retrospect, might well have been a terrible mistake. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b).

    It is estimated that as many as one million Jews died in the Great Revolt against Rome. When people today speak of the almost two-thousand-year span of Jewish homelessness and exile, they are dating it from the failure of the revolt and the destruction of the Temple. Indeed, the Great Revolt of 66-70, followed some sixty years later by the Bar Kokhba revolt, were the greatest calamities in Jewish history prior to the Holocaust. In addition to the more than one million Jews killed, these failed rebellions led to the total loss of Jewish political authority in Israel until 1948. "
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...evolt-66-70-ce

  13. #13

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Yes, the rejection of the word given them by the prophets and the law in the time of Daniel, and then when Jesus came, the rejection the very Word of God along with His death on the cross.

    Not only did they reject the what God gave them but they fought the soldiers in the Temple, which they were forbidden to enter except for the High Priest, much less fight in the Temple. Look at 2 Chronicles 36:17 in the fight against the soldiers of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon...

    "17 Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand." 2 Chronicles 36:17

    At the time of Daniel the people rejected God's calls to repentance and reformation and were left to reap the consequences. The result was felt not only by the people but in the complete destruction of the city and sanctuary. The result of God's people practicing the religious abominations of the heathen was the desolation of their land, city and sanctuary for 70 years.

    Now compare to what happened with the Romans when the Jews again entered into the Temple and fought the Roman Legion coming at them..."The Zealots and the Sicarii retreated to the Temple. The Roman legion, after several attempts at breaching the walls, set fire to the Holy Temple. The site that once gave thousands of Jewish people hope was destroyed. God, it seemed, was no longer in the city. This was the most devastating Roman blow to Judaea. The rest of the city was plundered and burned to the ground soon after the Temple fell. "https://www.ancient.eu/article/823/the-great-jewish-revolt-of-66-ce/

    "The boundless riches from the Temple treasury were used to strike coins with the legend JUDAEA CAPTA ("Judaea defeated"). "https://www.livius.org/articles/concept/roman-jewish-wars/roman-jewish-wars-4/

    " The Jews' Great Revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. led to one of the greatest catastrophes in Jewish life and, in retrospect, might well have been a terrible mistake. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b).

    It is estimated that as many as one million Jews died in the Great Revolt against Rome. When people today speak of the almost two-thousand-year span of Jewish homelessness and exile, they are dating it from the failure of the revolt and the destruction of the Temple. Indeed, the Great Revolt of 66-70, followed some sixty years later by the Bar Kokhba revolt, were the greatest calamities in Jewish history prior to the Holocaust. In addition to the more than one million Jews killed, these failed rebellions led to the total loss of Jewish political authority in Israel until 1948. "
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...evolt-66-70-ce
    A visible invading army was of llittle concern to Jesus (see that ye be not troubled Mt.24:6, And fear not them which kill the body Mt.10:28.) His warning to us is centered on spiritual deception (For many shall come in my name (Mk.13:6.)

    In the midst of all the supposed calamity going on, Jesus says something very curious,

    "Remember Lot's wife." Lk.16:32.

    Who in their right mind would wish to return to a city on the verge of destruction, unless the destruction wasn't apparent?

  14. #14

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    A visible invading army was of llittle concern to Jesus (see that ye be not troubled Mt.24:6, And fear not them which kill the body Mt.10:28.) His warning to us is centered on spiritual deception (For many shall come in my name (Mk.13:6.)

    In the midst of all the supposed calamity going on, Jesus says something very curious,

    "Remember Lot's wife." Lk.16:32.

    Who in their right mind would wish to return to a city on the verge of destruction, unless the destruction wasn't apparent?
    It wasn't about the armies or the Roman yoke on the Jews, but about Jesus love and compassion for others doing what He could to alleviate their suffering, we see it over and over...

    "35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
    36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd" Matthew 9:35-36.

    But the people had been led full circle to disobedience and abomination again and the leaders were at the forefront. We see it as Jesus comments that in spite of their apparent religiosity they were still breaking God's law even as their forefathers had during Isaiah's and Daniel's day....

    "6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
    7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
    9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
    10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
    11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
    12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
    13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."Mark 7:6-13 King James Version (KJV)

    Notice Jesus calls them out, "Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men... full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered". Once again the Jews found themselves immersed in vain and wrong worship that led to the abomination all the way to crucifying the Son of God.

    The second temple was honored with the living presence of the Son of God in whom dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily, who was God Himself manifest in the flesh. With the presence of Christ, the second temple exceeded the first temple in glory. Jesus points out what will cause the desolation....

    "1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
    2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
    3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
    4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
    5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
    6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
    7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.......
    13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
    14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
    15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
    16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
    17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?...........
    23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
    25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
    26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
    27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
    28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
    29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
    30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
    31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
    32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
    34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
    36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
    37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
    38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Matthew 23 (Shortened a bit)

    Jesus condemned them for their abominations and one that stands out was when He cleansed the temple of the abomination they had created inside it. On these times He expressed His anger at the desecration of His holy place, and in detail He prophesized the events of the coming destruction. We see a direct connection to the coming desolation in Luke 19...

    "37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
    38 Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
    39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
    40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
    41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
    42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
    43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
    44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
    45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
    46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves." Luke 19:37-46.

    The real controversy between Jesus and the Jews was over the abomination they had made of worship, and we see what was to be the culmination of the evil which resulted, in verse 47:

    "And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him," Luke 19:47

  15. #15

    Re: What is the "Abomination of Desolation"?

    Going back to the 'Abomination of Desolation' at the time of Jesus, the Jews especially the religious leaders were into a path that eventually would destroy the nation and people by the Romans, but they were blind as Jesus said. They wanted to kill him because He was a threat to the their religious system, the false form of worship they had let creep in which allowed them power and prestige for themselves and also wealth they had accumulated. He was a threat to their way of life, and the money they had pouring into their coffers and to their false traditions they had created to set aside Gods Law. Here was someone who taught what showed what they were doing against what God intended, Jeus didn't follow their false form of worship or keep the Sabbath in the manner they had set up with their many rules, and thought it should be kept, but which actually the form of worship was a abomination they had made. So what Jesus pointed out infuriated the Jewish leaders and led them to seek Jesus' death.

    Jesus revealed to them their abomination of worship they had made and the error of their ways and pointed the way to true worship. Yet they hardened their hearts and reject it and continued in their abomination, and brought on the judgement of desolation.

    Now lets turn to Jesus that the ceremonial law and the sacrifices in Jerusalem was coming to a end, as He would fulfill what they pointed to....

    19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”John 4:24.

    In the encounter with the woman at the well, Christ tells the woman of the Samaritans’ and Jews’ misconceptions of God. God cannot be confined to this mountain or to Jerusalem as they had formed in their view, for God is omnipresent and doesn’t need a Temple to be with them, and can be worshipped anywhere in spirit and in truth. But the Jews had made a idol in their great pride of the Temple and began to worship the building instead of who deserves worship, and now the Son of God which deserved it, had come. After teaching in the temple as He left it for the last time, Jesus was grief stricken with anguish as He saw the ultimate result of their apostasy, which would lead to desolation. Look at Luke 19:41-44:

    "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side and shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation" Luke 19:41-44.

    This prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Roman armies of Titus built a trench all around the city and attacked and burned the temple to the ground. This second desolation of the temple perfectly paralleled its first destruction. On both occasions the abominations were done by the apostasy and abomination of the religious leaders and people and the desolation was judgment being done by a army which brought its own abomination coupled with devastation desolation.

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