Page 15 of 31 FirstFirst ... 4567891011121314151617181920212223242526 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 460

Thread: Raptured to heaven?

  1. #211

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    [I'm assuming the EDIT feature is still on the blink? I would have added this to my previous posts, as I've done okay in the past ]

    OTOH, Matthew 24:29-31 ("AFTER" the tribulation of those days [part 1 aspect]) correlates with Isaiah 27:12-13, where it says Israel will be "gathered [verb]" (BY angels "HE SHALL SEND" to do so) "ONE BY ONE" (whereas WE are gathered "AS ONE" [the 'ONE BODY']) and for them it will be "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM"... in so many details wholly distinct from the manner (and purpose) of "our Rapture"

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,637

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Many make the erroneous claim that Christians are the just. we are NOT the just, we are the justified.
    Jesus said, "He that is not with me is against me". Mark 12:30
    There are two groups of humanity. name them anyway you want to; there are still only two groups.
    Group 1: just, faithful, redeemed, believers, brethren, Christians, followers, saints, servants, elect, sheep, wheat, good fish, my people, those written in the Lambs book of life, overcomers, etc..etc..

    Group 2: unjust, wicked, damned, lost, unbelievers, heathen, synogogue of satan, lukewarm, evil, goats, tares, bad fish, sons of the devil, those blotted out of the Lambs book of life, unrepentant, etc..etc..


    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    There is in fact at least one other resurrection and some might claim more which occurs BEFORE Jesus returns.
    The first is the resurrection of the Two Witnesses.
    This presumes the proper understanding of the two witnesses is not a symbolic personification, within a highly symbolic passage, of a highly symbolic chapter, of a highly symbolic book.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Some claim the 144K as well, though I disagree with that based on CONTEXT.
    We shouldn't heed claims. No scripture mention the 144K resurrecting at any time other than 'the resurrection of the dead'.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The Biblical expectation is NOT of one resurrection, that is the Biblical expectation for those who are to face JUDGEMENT for Eternal Life.
    Scripture tells me otherwise.

    Leaving all commentary aside below, do they say multiple resurrections at multiple times by multiple groups; or
    1 resurrection for all men, just and unjust at the same time?

    • "dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. " Isaiah 26:19
    • "Therefore in the resurrection" Matt 22:28
    • "For in the resurrection" Matt 22:30
    • "the resurrection of the dead" Matt 22:31
    • "In the resurrection" Mark 12:23
    • "the resurrection of the dead" Luke 14:14
    • "In the resurrection" Luke 20:33
    • "the resurrection from the dead" Luke 20:35
    • "of the resurrection" Luke 20:36
    • "they that have done good,the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. " John 5:29
    • "the resurrection at the last day" John 11:24
    • "the resurrection John 11:25
    • "the resurrection from the dead" Acts 4:2
    • "the resurrection John 11:25
    • "the resurrection" Acts 17:18
    • "the resurrection of the dead" Acts 17:32
    • "the resurrection of the dead" Acts 24:21
    • "the resurrection of the dead" Romans 1:4
    • "the resurrection of the dead" ICor 15:13
    • "the resurrection of the dead" ICor 15:21
    • "the resurrection of the dead" ICor 15:42
    • "the resurrection of the dead" Phi 3:10
    • "the resurrection of the dead" Phi 3:11
    • "the resurrection of the dead" 2Tim 2:18
    • "the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets" Rev 11:18
    • "I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,637

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    [I'm assuming the EDIT feature is still on the blink? I would have added this to my previous posts, as I've done okay in the past ]

    OTOH, Matthew 24:29-31 ("AFTER" the tribulation of those days [part 1 aspect]) correlates with Isaiah 27:12-13, where it says Israel will be "gathered [verb]" (BY angels "HE SHALL SEND" to do so) "ONE BY ONE" (whereas WE are gathered "AS ONE" [the 'ONE BODY']) and for them it will be "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM"... in so many details wholly distinct from the manner (and purpose) of "our Rapture"
    The only Israelites that will be gathered in the Olivet Discourse Trumpet and Coming of the Lord, are those Israelites who are born-again Christians.

    The Olivet Discourse:
    It specifically calls them those who are hated, persecuted, and imprisoned by Jesus' name.
    It specifically calls them those who are not deceived in looking for a false Messiah who is not Jesus.
    It specifically calls them Jesus' elect.
    It specifically calls them Jesus chosen ones.
    It specifically calls them those who watch for Jesus coming.
    It specifically calls them those who Jesus will give words of wisdom to against their condemers.
    It specifically calls them those who are gathered from the uttermost part of the Earth to the uttermost part of Heaven.

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,380
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Rev 20 shows two resurrections separated by a thousand years.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


    Here is the first group to be dead and resurrect ie: go from dead to living. The next verse says, "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" which is a second group of the dead that didn't resurrect with the previous group. One group resurrected before the thousand years, the other must wait to resurrect until after the thousand years is finished.

    That eliminates any possibility of all the dead being resurrected all together on one single day. No scripture contradicts this, and if it seems to, it is being misunderstood.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  5. #215

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    The only Israelites that will be gathered in the Olivet Discourse Trumpet and Coming of the Lord, are those Israelites who are born-again Christians.

    The Olivet Discourse:
    It specifically calls them those who are hated, persecuted, and imprisoned by Jesus' name.
    It specifically calls them those who are not deceived in looking for a false Messiah who is not Jesus.
    It specifically calls them Jesus' elect.
    It specifically calls them Jesus chosen ones.
    It specifically calls them those who watch for Jesus coming.
    It specifically calls them those who Jesus will give words of wisdom to against their condemers.
    It specifically calls them those who are gathered from the uttermost part of the Earth to the uttermost part of Heaven.
    I wholly agree with you that they (in this context) are "SAVED" persons (not the unbelieving!)

    ...however, we must take note of the use of the "proleptic 'you'" used in the Olivet Discourse (and elsewhere too), which [basically] means "all those in the future, of the same category" (and in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is ADDRESSING "those TO WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [as we call it] WAS PROMISED" and that was not what "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" was promised, but to Israel [faithful / faith-filled Israel, not "faithless"], and so it will be fulfilled to THEM [Acts 1 Q, where Jesus did not CORRECT them about their (proper) understanding of WHAT it is, they merely did not understand its TIMING [that was their question to Him there]). At the time of the Olivet Discourse (His words there), He had NOT YET SPOKEN anything regarding "Rapture" (that was not the SUBJECT He was covering there).

    "The Church which is His body" is considered NEITHER [Jew nor Gentile] in our standing before God "IN CHRIST" (a phrase designated solely of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints]);

    ...the thing is, the Olivet Discourse is describing [except for some 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a about the events of 70ad] ENTIRELY what WILL [futurely] take place FOLLOWING our Rapture; when thereafter the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" / "whose COMING [man of sin]" 2Th2:9a / Dan9:27(26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME") KICKS OFF the trib, with the rider of the white horse with a bow [often meaning DECEPTION], in that, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" EQUALS SEAL #1 at the START! [ALL of these are ITS BEGINNING point])

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,637

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Rev 20 shows two resurrections separated by a thousand years.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


    Here is the first group to be dead and resurrect ie: go from dead to living. The next verse says, "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" which is a second group of the dead that didn't resurrect with the previous group. One group resurrected before the thousand years, the other must wait to resurrect until after the thousand years is finished.

    That eliminates any possibility of all the dead being resurrected all together on one single day. No scripture contradicts this, and if it seems to, it is being misunderstood.
    It doesn't show two bodily resurrections.

    The First Resurrection is not described as a bodily resurrection from the grave in Revelation.

    The term First Resurrection, is used one time (Greek proto anastasis) outside of Revelation; and it is used to denote Jesus Himself as being the first resurrection.

    Acts 26:23 "That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the [Proto Anastasis], and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

    Paul likens the concept to baptism, that we die to our sinful self, and are raised to newness of life in Christ. (not a bodily resurrection), but it happens first.

    I believe that is what John also is referring to, and the First Resurrection has been occuring solely for believers, since Jesus' day. Everyone like Stephen, who was martred, or has died in the faith, is a partaker of Christ's First Resurrection.

    The unbelieving have no part in it. They only await the final resurrection of the body (as we also do) that occurs at the GWT.

    Believers are raised twice, and die once.
    Unbelievers are raised once, and die twice.

    That is why the Second Death is not a resurrection; but the final separation of the wicked from God.

    You must distinguish John's terms 'First Resurection' and 'Second Death'...they are the terms he compares and contrasts. Neither address the bodily resurrection of man at the GWT.

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,380
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    It doesn't show two bodily resurrections.
    It does actually. Both resurrections are the dead coming back to life. "the rest of the dead lived not again" proves that the first resurrection was also a group of the dead that came back to life. The second group will also come back to life. There is a thousand years inbetween.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #218

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    [lacking ability to EDIT]

    Adding...

    David Taylor:
    It specifically calls them those who are gathered from the uttermost part of the Earth to the uttermost part of Heaven.
    In this verse ^ , He is not conveying that their destination[-point] is "TO the UTTERMOST PARTS OF HEAVEN"... He is conveying that they will be gathered from the extremities, no place will be left out (from where they will all be gathered). Isaiah 27:12-13 (its parallel passage) shows the destination-point, which says "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" (this agrees with how the parallels of: Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/Rev20:5 EQUALS Isaiah 23:21-22[23--note "where], and see that Rev19 is speaking of the time slot of His Second Coming to the earth [NOT our Rapture])

  9. #219
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,637

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I wholly agree with you that they (in this context) are "SAVED" persons (not the unbelieving!)

    ...however, we must take note of the use of the "proleptic 'you'" used in the Olivet Discourse (and elsewhere too), which [basically] means "all those in the future, of the same category" (and in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is ADDRESSING "those TO WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [as we call it] WAS PROMISED" and that was not what "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" was promised, but to Israel [faithful / faith-filled Israel, not "faithless"], and so it will be fulfilled to THEM [Acts 1 Q, where Jesus did not CORRECT them about their (proper) understanding of WHAT it is, they merely did not understand its TIMING [that was their question to Him there]). At the time of the Olivet Discourse (His words there), He had NOT YET SPOKEN anything regarding "Rapture" (that was not the SUBJECT He was covering there).

    "The Church which is His body" is considered NEITHER [Jew nor Gentile] in our standing before God "IN CHRIST" (a phrase designated solely of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints]);

    ...the thing is, the Olivet Discourse is describing [except for some 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a about the events of 70ad] ENTIRELY what WILL [futurely] take place FOLLOWING our Rapture; when thereafter the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" / "whose COMING [man of sin]" 2Th2:9a / Dan9:27(26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME") KICKS OFF the trib, with the rider of the white horse with a bow [often meaning DECEPTION], in that, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" EQUALS SEAL #1 at the START! [ALL of these are ITS BEGINNING point])
    DVW,
    There are no such thing as OT saints, trib saints, MK saints.

    There are those written in the Lamb's book of Life; and those blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

    That's it.

    Jesus said, "He that is not with me is against me" Mark 12:30

    Apply this simple biblical concept to every human being from Adam until the last born person of all time.

    Your statements above, are more personal commentary and conjecture and pre-trib buzzwords than they are scripture.

    All of the personal commentary is pure speculation built on speculation built on speculation; mostly in your words, not in God's words.

    Stop following the mantra; and start just using scripture without commentary.
    Let the scripture speak simply as it is given; and you will be blessed beyond imagine.

    Spend a day, and only post scriptures alone, to validate your points, and see if it can be done, and understood by the audience, without the personal commentary that so heavily imbeds your posts.
    Just try it. Ask the Lord to give you only His scriptures, to answer peoples questions, and discussion points on the forum. See what the Lord can do with that, and where He might lead you in your walk with His word.

  10. #220
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,380
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    [lacking ability to EDIT]
    The EDIT works fine for me.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  11. #221

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I wholly agree with you that they (in this context) are "SAVED" persons (not the unbelieving!)

    ...however, we must take note of the use of the "proleptic 'you'" used in the Olivet Discourse (and elsewhere too), which [basically] means "all those in the future, of the same category" (and in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is ADDRESSING "those TO WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [as we call it] WAS PROMISED" and that was not what "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" was promised, but to Israel [faithful / faith-filled Israel, not "faithless"], and so it will be fulfilled to THEM [Acts 1 Q, where Jesus did not CORRECT them about their (proper) understanding of WHAT it is, they merely did not understand its TIMING [that was their question to Him there]). At the time of the Olivet Discourse (His words there), He had NOT YET SPOKEN anything regarding "Rapture" (that was not the SUBJECT He was covering there).

    "The Church which is His body" is considered NEITHER [Jew nor Gentile] in our standing before God "IN CHRIST" (a phrase designated solely of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints]);

    ...the thing is, the Olivet Discourse is describing [except for some 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a about the events of 70ad] ENTIRELY what WILL [futurely] take place FOLLOWING our Rapture; when thereafter the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" / "whose COMING [man of sin]" 2Th2:9a / Dan9:27(26 - "prince THAT SHALL COME") KICKS OFF the trib, with the rider of the white horse with a bow [often meaning DECEPTION], in that, the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" EQUALS SEAL #1 at the START! [ALL of these are ITS BEGINNING point])
    ...meant to add, these come to faith WITHIN the tribulation period (note Hosea 5:15-6:3 "in their affliction, they [Israel] will seek Me early/earnestly" and the "after two days" and "in the third day")… that is, AFTER our Rapture (which is one of the PURPOSES of our Rapture, in that our Rapture will be a primary impetus of their coming to faith [DURING the trib])

  12. #222

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The EDIT works fine for me.
    Thank you. I will try it next time. Sorry for all my separate posting, then. (LOL)

  13. #223

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Nope. Not working for me yet. Oh well. (ha)

  14. #224
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,637

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    [lacking ability to EDIT]

    Adding...



    In this verse ^ , He is not conveying that their destination[-point] is "TO the UTTERMOST PARTS OF HEAVEN"... He is conveying that they will be gathered from the extremities, no place will be left out (from where they will all be gathered). Isaiah 27:12-13 (its parallel passage) shows the destination-point, which says "to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" (this agrees with how the parallels of: Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/Rev20:5 EQUALS Isaiah 23:21-22[23--note "where], and see that Rev19 is speaking of the time slot of His Second Coming to the earth [NOT our Rapture])

    Again, you spend all of your energy adding your own commentary and spinning it into something the scriptures themselves do not say on their own...stop it.

    Let the word of God stand alone, to get your point across. Watch how this works. See how easily the reader can understand on their own, without tons of personal commentary otherwise.

    Example:

    "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet" Matthew 24:27

    "and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, FROM the uttermost part of the earth TO the uttermost part of heaven. " Mark 13:27


  15. #225
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,333
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    But the question, keraz, is: what will come of the saints from the distant past? Will they simply remain disembodied spirits in the presence of the Lord for another 1000 years? So, I'm seeing you say that living Christians at the time of the 2nd Coming will enter into the Millennium in their mortal bodies, and will not be caught up at that time? And those Christians in the past who have died will remain only spirits for another 1000 years? And only Christians who die in the Final Tribulation will be raised up *in their old bodies* to reign in the Millennial Kingdom? Do I have your position correct now?
    I reiterate; everyone who has ever lived will stand before God on the GWT in Judgment.
    Those OT saints and Christians who have died remain in their graves until then. Only those Christians who will be killed for their faith during the last 3 1/2 years of this era, will be brought back to life when Jesus Returns. They too, will stand before God at the end of the Millennium and as their names are Written in the Book of Life, they will then receive immortality.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pre-Trib Raptured Where???
    By DavePeace in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 172
    Last Post: May 3rd 2019, 07:02 PM
  2. Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?
    By Trivalee in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Mar 22nd 2016, 04:58 PM
  3. How will the prisoners be raptured?
    By wendy-p-marshall in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Mar 10th 2016, 09:24 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •