Page 24 of 31 FirstFirst ... 13141516171819202122232425262728293031 LastLast
Results 346 to 360 of 460

Thread: Raptured to heaven?

  1. #346
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,632

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Obviously Jesus had His mortal body after He was resurrected. It still had holes in it! John 20:27 He was able to appear suddenly, but there are other ways of explaining that.

    We do have a firm basis for understanding that no one will become immortal until the GWTJ, because it is only then; the Book of Life will be opened and eternal life will be conferred upon those whose names are Written there.

    The 'Church' of every faithful Christian do not come back with Christ, because they will never leave this earth. Jesus Returns, accompanied by the armies of heaven. Matthew 16:27 & 25:31
    I appreciate the acknowledgement that Jesus was actually healed in his resurrection, and not yet glorified as an immortal. What you've said is exactly what I've said, that Jesus still had wounds, indicating he had been "healed!"

    But I do think we will be made immortal at the 2nd Coming. The poor souls waiting under the altar in the book of Revelation were anxious to get new bodies, and I think they anticipated it would happen at the 2nd Coming--not at the GWTJ. That's way too long to wait in these circumstances!

  2. #347
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,632

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I'm afraid that isn't evidence nor have you provided any. It cannot be denied that people will be immortal and will reign over the mortal nations for a thousand years...that's what the scriptures present and what they do not present is ruling from heaven. I already mentioned the rebel mortals after the thousand years that surround the city and camp of the saints. The saints are immortal and their camp is near Jerusalem, on the Earth where the immortals lived during the thousand years. The immortals don't have mortals in their camp but all do reside upon the Earth.
    Wouldn't that be insane for mortal armies to come up against a city of immortals?

  3. #348
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I appreciate the acknowledgement that Jesus was actually healed in his resurrection, and not yet glorified as an immortal. What you've said is exactly what I've said, that Jesus still had wounds, indicating he had been "healed!"
    He had no wounds which is the result of being "healed" which is the resurrection. Scars are healed wounds. Christ had no wounds when he arose. Christ rose in an immortal body.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #349
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Wouldn't that be insane for mortal armies to come up against a city of immortals?
    It was "insane" for mortal armies to face Christ and his army in Rev 19 also, so they didn't learn that time why expect them to be wiser after the thousand years? Don't forget Satan DECEIVED them...his deceptions are strong.

    Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  5. #350
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,342
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post

    But I do think we will be made immortal at the 2nd Coming. The poor souls waiting under the altar in the book of Revelation were anxious to get new bodies, and I think they anticipated it would happen at the 2nd Coming--not at the GWTJ. That's way too long to wait in these circumstances!
    All very well to think that, but the truth is that immortality cannot be given until the Book of Life is opened and that only happens at the GWTJ.

    The souls of all the martyrs, excepting those killed during the Great Trib, Revelation 20:4, will have to wait, like all the OT saints and all the Christian dead, until the Millennium is over. It won't be a hardship, as the dead know nothing and time means nothing.

  6. #351
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,001
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    All very well to think that, but the truth is that immortality cannot be given until the Book of Life is opened and that only happens at the GWTJ.
    Really, immortality CANNOT be given until the Book of Life is opened?
    It doesn't say that in my Bible anywhere.
    What it tells me is that Jesus can give immortality to whomever He chooses:
    John 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

    If you make a claim which is NOT based on Biblical FACT then don;t be surprised when no one agrees with you.

  7. #352
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,001
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    There is no Jew fold. There is one fold now containing both Jew and Gentile, and it continues to be filled, as long as the Lord tarries.
    The reason Jesus said there were two folds in that passage, AT THAT TIME, is because the Lord had not yet started to bring the Gentiles out of the shadow of darkness, and into the family of God en-masse yet.
    That started at Pentecost. God's single fold, continues to grow, with sheep from every tongue, tribe, and nation joining in togther as living stones.
    There certainly was more than one fold when Jesus said His words:
    John 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
    Notice there is a PRESENT REALITY of sheep who are not part of this fold, and a FUTURE REALITY of when they will be one.
    So the question is, when in time will they be one.
    Now you have a valid point about Pentecost, yet you miss what is stated at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.
    You further miss that we CANNOT be united with those who are dead UNTIL those who are dead are raised to life.

    Every single human being will be raised, and given an account on the Final day of Judgment (GWT).
    Daniel and David and you and I will all be in the uncountable throng on judgement day, according to the scriptures.
    [I][COLOR="#FF0000"]
    "we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
    OK, so you DO say that the Jews will be at raised at the GWToJ, which was my question.
    Where you err is that you say that any Christians will be in that throng of the dead.
    You see scripture states we (who are IN Christ) will face judgement, but this is NOT for eternal life, but for reward, and it does NOT state that this is at the GWToJ. In fact it states this is when Jesus returns.
    As you FAIL to recognise there is more than one resurrection, so you also FAIL to recognise more than one judgement.

    God's word solves all bad-doctrinal positions, like those who say the final judgment is only for this group or that group; but not group abc or group xyz.
    God's word above tells you who will be there giving an account to Him on Judgment Day.
    If you doctrine is conflicting with the verses, it's a good time to consider adjusting it.
    God's Word does indeed solve all the bad doctrinal issues, when you submit to ALL that they state.
    We are SPECIFICALLY told who will be at the GWToJ, and they are called "the dead", but we who are IN Christ are NOT part of "the dead" but are of the living.
    We have ALREADY been made alive in Christ, or do you disagree with this fact?
    We have ALREADY had the judgement for eternal life passed, with Jesus taking our place.
    We are NOT judged according to our works for eternal life UNLIKE everyone who is at the GWToJ.

    Perhaps if you paid attention to the Gospel as taught by Paul, especially Romans 2, then it would clarify that EVERYONE who is IN Christ is a NEW Creation, no longer in condemnation, and we will not face any judgement for works to gain eternal life. This is the glorious gospel we should be preaching. Aren't you sharing this incredible news?
    Anyone who claims that a Christian will be judged according to works for eternal life really has not got a clue about the gospel.

  8. #353
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,001
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The huge problem with your idea that the wicked and the righteous will be judged separately, is that those of either side can only be established by a Judgment.
    Your premise is impossible, as well as unscriptural.
    You are 100% correct that the just and the unjust are judged at the SAME time. This is the scriptural FACT.
    Where you, and many others err, is confusing "the just" with those who are "In the Just". "In the Just" are those who are In Christ, He is their justification and He has ALREADy paid the price , in order to justify them, not according to works, but according to His Grace.

  9. #354
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,342
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Really, immortality CANNOT be given until the Book of Life is opened?
    It doesn't say that in my Bible anywhere.
    What it tells me is that Jesus can give immortality to whomever He chooses:
    John 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

    If you make a claim which is NOT based on Biblical FACT then don;t be surprised when no one agrees with you.
    No, But the only time that Immortality is given, is at the GWTJ, when the Book of Life is opened and Death is no more.
    It is incumbent upon you to prove it can be given before then.

    There are many prophesies like John 3:16, John 5:21, 1 Cor 15:50-56, + that promise Eternal life, to the faithful believer, but it is quite illogical that people are actually made immortal before Eternity kicks in.

  10. #355
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,001
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    No, But the only time that Immortality is given, is at the GWTJ, when the Book of Life is opened and Death is no more.
    It is incumbent upon you to prove it can be given before then.
    Actually you are the one claiming it CANNOT be given at another time, so it is incumbent on YOU to prove that immortality is given by the Book of Life being opened.
    In Rev 20 it makes no statement that the Book of Life imparts immortality. It states those who are IN it receive immortality, for the Book is simply a record of those who are to live.

    There are many prophesies like John 3:16, John 5:21, 1 Cor 15:50-56, + that promise Eternal life, to the faithful believer, but it is quite illogical that people are actually made immortal before Eternity kicks in.
    The question as you note is WHEN does it kick in.
    1 Thess 4 has it kick in, as does very clearly 1 Cor 15:50 - 56. Rev 20:4 is another place. Intriguingly ALL 3 of these speak of the SAME time, which is when Jesus returns.

  11. #356
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    862

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    All very well to think that, but the truth is that immortality cannot be given until the Book of Life is opened and that only happens at the GWTJ.

    The souls of all the martyrs, excepting those killed during the Great Trib, Revelation 20:4, will have to wait, like all the OT saints and all the Christian dead, until the Millennium is over. It won't be a hardship, as the dead know nothing and time means nothing.
    I understand where you are coming from, and have often wondered the same thing. Mainly because of Jesus words....this makes it sound like it happens all at the same time:
    John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    This then to me means it is the “last day”...so when is the last day..the GWT?
    John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    This to me then puts the rapture at the “last day” when all are raised. Then we have the NHNE. This also seems to fit as it will truly be the last trump...as I see the feasts still happening when Jesus is here, so the last trump would be at the GWT. Plus Peter said this is what we should be looking for 2Pe 3:13 and Jesus prayed that they not be taken out of the world Joh 17:15.

  12. #357
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,638

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    I understand where you are coming from, and have often wondered the same thing. Mainly because of Jesus words....this makes it sound like it happens all at the same time:
    John 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    This then to me means it is the “last day”...so when is the last day..the GWT?
    John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    This to me then puts the rapture at the “last day” when all are raised. Then we have the NHNE. This also seems to fit as it will truly be the last trump...as I see the feasts still happening when Jesus is here, so the last trump would be at the GWT. Plus Peter said this is what we should be looking for 2Pe 3:13 and Jesus prayed that they not be taken out of the world Joh 17:15.
    Exactly!

    Jesus also tells us that is when the final judgment will occur.

    John 12:48 “He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him.
    The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day”

    Clear scriptures should never be dismissed in favor of speculative theories.

  13. #358
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,632

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    He had no wounds which is the result of being "healed" which is the resurrection. Scars are healed wounds. Christ had no wounds when he arose. Christ rose in an immortal body.
    I agree, but that wasn't my point. I was talking about *healed wounds* that were still visible. That is evidence of the old body having been resurrected. An entirely new body could've been created to appear as if it had been wounded. But these seems senseless to me.

  14. #359
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,342
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually you are the one claiming it CANNOT be given at another time, so it is incumbent on YOU to prove that immortality is given by the Book of Life being opened.
    In Rev 20 it makes no statement that the Book of Life imparts immortality. It states those who are IN it receive immortality, for the Book is simply a record of those who are to live.


    The question as you note is WHEN does it kick in.
    1 Thess 4 has it kick in, as does very clearly 1 Cor 15:50 - 56. Rev 20:4 is another place. Intriguingly ALL 3 of these speak of the SAME time, which is when Jesus returns.
    It is obvious to most here that immortality is only given to those whose names are Written in the Book of Life. That Book must be opened for those names to be read and immortality conferred and the only time that happens, is at the GWTJ, after the Millennium. Daniel 12:1b-3 describes this and Eternity. John 5:28-29 as well.

    Your 2 quotes are all about the Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. This is 1000 years before the GWTJ and Eternity and only 1 Cor 15:50-56 mentions immortality or Eternity, so it is a prophecy about the GWTJ, proved by how Death is no more then. There will be death during the Millennium. Isaiah 65:20

  15. #360
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,632

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It was "insane" for mortal armies to face Christ and his army in Rev 19 also, so they didn't learn that time why expect them to be wiser after the thousand years? Don't forget Satan DECEIVED them...his deceptions are strong.

    Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    Armageddon is, I believe, an indirect attack on Christ and on his angelic armies. Antichrist is armed to annihilate Christianity and Christian nations on earth. In this way he will precipitate WW3, I believe. This is a battle against an invisible God--not the same thing as going against a visible immortal.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 6 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pre-Trib Raptured Where???
    By DavePeace in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 172
    Last Post: May 3rd 2019, 07:02 PM
  2. Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?
    By Trivalee in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Mar 22nd 2016, 04:58 PM
  3. How will the prisoners be raptured?
    By wendy-p-marshall in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Mar 10th 2016, 09:24 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •