Page 29 of 31 FirstFirst ... 1819202122232425262728293031 LastLast
Results 421 to 435 of 460

Thread: Raptured to heaven?

  1. #421
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,342
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.

    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.

  2. #422

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.

    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.
    I agree totally!

    What event prompts beginning of the Millennium?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.

    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.
    I agree totally!

    What event prompts beginning of the Millennium?

  3. #423

    Cool Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.

    The Last trumpet will sound at the Great White Throne Judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:52 All the dead will rise to stand before God, Revelation 20:11-15, and only then will Death be no more.
    Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality, those not found will go into the Lake of Fire. These things do not and cannot happen before the end of the Millennium.
    Okay then, tell me who this scripture is speaking of:

    Rev. 20:4, 5 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  4. #424
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,342
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Okay then, tell me who this scripture is speaking of:

    Rev. 20:4, 5 [I]"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
    Revelation 20 takes place after Jesus has Returned and disposed of the armies at Armageddon and chained up Satan.
    The Judges mentioned here may be the 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4. Anyway; they judge those martyrs killed during the last 3 1/2 years, when the AC has world control. They are pronounced worthy and are brought back to life, to reign with Jesus for the next 1000 years. Note that they do not receive immortality yet. But if they do die again, then that second death has no power over them, as their names are Written in the Book of Life and they will be made immortal for Eternity at the GWT Judgment.


    Thanks, TMarcum.
    We await all the events prophesied in Revelation from the Sixth Seal until the glorious Return.
    The Sixth Seal will be the world changer that will set the scene for it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Okay then, tell me who this scripture is speaking of:

    Rev. 20:4, 5 [I]"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
    Revelation 20 takes place after Jesus has Returned and disposed of the armies at Armageddon and chained up Satan.
    The Judges mentioned here may be the 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4. Anyway; they judge those martyrs killed during the last 3 1/2 years, when the AC has world control. They are pronounced worthy and are brought back to life, to reign with Jesus for the next 1000 years. Note that they do not receive immortality yet. But if they do die again, then that second death has no power over them, as their names are Written in the Book of Life and they will be made immortal for Eternity at the GWT Judgment.


    Thanks, TMarcum.
    We await all the events prophesied in Revelation from the Sixth Seal until the glorious Return.
    The Sixth Seal will be the world changer that will set the scene for it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Okay then, tell me who this scripture is speaking of:

    Rev. 20:4, 5 [I]"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
    Revelation 20 takes place after Jesus has Returned and disposed of the armies at Armageddon and chained up Satan.
    The Judges mentioned here may be the 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4. Anyway; they judge those martyrs killed during the last 3 1/2 years, when the AC has world control. They are pronounced worthy and are brought back to life, to reign with Jesus for the next 1000 years. Note that they do not receive immortality yet. But if they do die again, then that second death has no power over them, as their names are Written in the Book of Life and they will be made immortal for Eternity at the GWT Judgment.


    Thanks, TMarcum.
    We await all the events prophesied in Revelation from the Sixth Seal until the glorious Return.
    The Sixth Seal will be the world changer that will set the scene for it all.

  5. #425

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Revelation 20 takes place after Jesus has Returned and disposed of the armies at Armageddon and chained up Satan.
    The Judges mentioned here may be the 24 Elders of Revelation 4:4. Anyway; they judge those martyrs killed during the last 3 1/2 years, when the AC has world control. They are pronounced worthy and are brought back to life, to reign with Jesus for the next 1000 years. Note that they do not receive immortality yet. But if they do die again, then that second death has no power over them, as their names are Written in the Book of Life and they will be made immortal for Eternity at the GWT Judgment.


    Thanks, TMarcum.
    We await all the events prophesied in Revelation from the Sixth Seal until the glorious Return.
    The Sixth Seal will be the world changer that will set the scene for it all.

    Consider what John saw in vs 4 and 5.

    In vs 4, he saw "the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    These were dead saints that were beheaded and martyred and awaiting the resurrection of their bodies. Their souls reigned with Christ the whole period. This is a true statement. The soul of the saved does live on after death. To be absent from the body is to be present with Christ. So, these were living souls with dead bodies still in the grave. Waiting for the resurrection of their bodies, which did not happen until the end of the 1000 years were finished.

    In vs 5, he saw the souls of the rest of the dead, the rest of the dead are the sinners that died without Christ. They lived not again until the thousand years were finished. They too were awaiting the resurrection of their bodies. But they did not live and reign with Christ. After the 1000 years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    We see that those that did have part in the first resurrection: Christ is the 1st resurrection and to have part in the 1st resurrection is to have part with Christ. On such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    But those who did not have part in Christ and died sinners, They did not have a 1st resurrection (which is being born again). And at the end of when the thousand years were finished. This is their first resurrection and the second death hath power over them as they were thrown in the lake of fire.


    Rev 20
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

  6. #426
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    C
    In vs 4, he saw "the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    These were dead saints that were beheaded and martyred and awaiting the resurrection of their bodies. Their souls reigned with Christ the whole period. This is a true statement.
    No, that's not what the verse says. They were dead, then lived and only after that living again, which is a bodily resurrection, did they begin to reign. The first resurrection is the first of two mass bodily resurrections. The "rest of the dead lived not" proves the first group resurrected and the second group doesn't resurrect until after a thousand years.

    The first group of resurrected dead are Christians and that only happens after Christ has returned according to Paul. That places Rev 20:4 at the second coming when resurrections first happen. The second resurrection is anyone not saved at the second coming.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  7. #427

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, that's not what the verse says. They were dead, then lived and only after that living again, which is a bodily resurrection, did they begin to reign. The first resurrection is the first of two mass bodily resurrections. The "rest of the dead lived not" proves the first group resurrected and the second group doesn't resurrect until after a thousand years.

    The first group of resurrected dead are Christians and that only happens after Christ has returned according to Paul. That places Rev 20:4 at the second coming when resurrections first happen. The second resurrection is anyone not saved at the second coming.
    I totally agree with you regarding the doctrine of both groups resurrection is after and only after the 1000 years. But I am a little lost where you state, They were dead, then lived and only after that living again which is a bodily resurrection, did they begin to reign.

    Now let me say this, I do believe and agree totally with what you are saying. I believe we do reign with Christ after our body and soul is resurrected at his one and only coming.

    But I don't believe that was what John was seeing in his vision. I think he was seeing the souls of the dead in a good state being in the presence of the Lord until his coming in the resurrection. And the rest of the dead being in a terrible state and not living at all (in fact, chained in outer darkness) until their body and soul resurrects to the 2nd death.


    But believe me, I have no contention at with you in what you are saying, because it is strong doctrine based on truth. Other scriptures back up and support what you are saying. And I give away to the fact I could be wrong. I am not arrogant regarding needing to be correct for the sake of argument. I will concede as I come to new revelations of truth.

  8. #428
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I totally agree with you regarding the doctrine of both groups resurrection is after and only after the 1000 years.
    No, both groups don't resurrect after the thousand years. One is before it, one resurrects after:
    "I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus" "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    That's one group resurrecting before the thousand years begin.


    "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

    That's the second ground resurrecting AFTER the thousand years.


    I believe we do reign with Christ after our body and soul is resurrected at his one and only coming.

    But I don't believe that was what John was seeing in his vision.
    Well, that is exactly what John is describing. Some of the dead live again to reign with Christ. The rest of the dead did not get to have this blessed opportunity and lived again after the thousand years.


    But believe me, I have no contention at with you in what you are saying, because it is strong doctrine based on truth. Other scriptures back up and support what you are saying. And I give away to the fact I could be wrong. I am not arrogant regarding needing to be correct for the sake of argument. I will concede as I come to new revelations of truth.
    It is good that you are trying to figure all this out. All I can do is tell you how and why I believe what I do and hopefully that will help. If you have any questions or want me to explain anything more, just ask.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  9. #429

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, both groups don't resurrect after the thousand years. One is before it, one resurrects after:
    "I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus" "and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

    That's one group resurrecting before the thousand years begin.


    "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

    That's the second ground resurrecting AFTER the thousand years.




    Well, that is exactly what John is describing. Some of the dead live again to reign with Christ. The rest of the dead did not get to have this blessed opportunity and lived again after the thousand years.




    It is good that you are trying to figure all this out. All I can do is tell you how and why I believe what I do and hopefully that will help. If you have any questions or want me to explain anything more, just ask.
    I do not believe in this belief of eschatology. The term "first resurrection" is applied to both groups. If Jesus came back before the thousand years and raised the saints and John called it the "first resurrection". Then the other resurrection would have been termed the "second resurrection" in verse 5. You will notice that verse 4 does not mention a single thing about the souls being resurrected. It says he saw the souls that were beheaded.... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Nothing is mentioned about a resurrection in either group until after the thousand years were finished and is termed the "first resurrection".

    And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and shall go out to deceive the nations. And how is he going to deceive if the saints are already resurrected? Who is his target? Who is he gone to deceive? The sinners cannot be deceived because they are already lost and living a life of deception.

    Then notice in verse 9 that Satan compassed the camp of the saints? How did they get there if they were resurrected before the 1000 year?


    Rev 12
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    So no my brother, I do not see what your saying anywhere written in the text.

  10. #430
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I do not believe in this belief of eschatology. The term "first resurrection" is applied to both groups.
    No, it is applied to the first group only. The second group obviously cannot be part of the first resurrection because they aren't.


    If Jesus came back before the thousand years and raised the saints and John called it the "first resurrection". Then the other resurrection would have been termed the "second resurrection" in verse 5.
    Exact wording is never required. It says the rest of the dead lived not until...that is a second resurrection.

    You will notice that verse 4 does not mention a single thing about the souls being resurrected.
    It does. Dead people are said to live, and a second group would not live again until some time passed. Living in both cases is a reference to resurrection.

    It says he saw the souls that were beheaded.... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Nothing is mentioned about a resurrection in either group until after the thousand years were finished and is termed the "first resurrection".
    It's not termed the first resurrection. A person made up the verse numbers. It only makes it look like the second resurrection is called the first but reading the text makes it clear it's not saying any such thing.

    And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and shall go out to deceive the nations. And how is he going to deceive if the saints are already resurrected?
    Who is his target? Who is he gone to deceive?
    The people he deceives weren't dead. They are the living nations that survive the second coming.


    The sinners cannot be deceived because they are already lost and living a life of deception.
    They can and will still be deceived. Remember, Satan was gone for a thousand years and wasn't deceiving them so it is not until he is released that they become deceived again.


    Then notice in verse 9 that Satan compassed the camp of the saints? How did they get there if they were resurrected before the 1000 year?
    They weren't resurrected before the 1000 years. They are mortals, and are killed by fire then resurrected for judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I do not believe in this belief of eschatology. The term "first resurrection" is applied to both groups.
    No, it is applied to the first group only. The second group obviously cannot be part of the first resurrection because they aren't.


    If Jesus came back before the thousand years and raised the saints and John called it the "first resurrection". Then the other resurrection would have been termed the "second resurrection" in verse 5.
    Exact wording is never required. It says the rest of the dead lived not until...that is a second resurrection.

    You will notice that verse 4 does not mention a single thing about the souls being resurrected.
    It does. Dead people are said to live, and a second group would not live again until some time passed. Living in both cases is a reference to resurrection.

    It says he saw the souls that were beheaded.... and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Nothing is mentioned about a resurrection in either group until after the thousand years were finished and is termed the "first resurrection".
    It's not termed the first resurrection. A person made up the verse numbers. It only makes it look like the second resurrection is called the first but reading the text makes it clear it's not saying any such thing.

    And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and shall go out to deceive the nations. And how is he going to deceive if the saints are already resurrected?
    Who is his target? Who is he gone to deceive?
    The people he deceives weren't dead. They are the living nations that survive the second coming.


    The sinners cannot be deceived because they are already lost and living a life of deception.
    They can and will still be deceived. Remember, Satan was gone for a thousand years and wasn't deceiving them so it is not until he is released that they become deceived again.


    Then notice in verse 9 that Satan compassed the camp of the saints? How did they get there if they were resurrected before the 1000 year?
    They weren't resurrected before the 1000 years. They are mortals, and are killed by fire then resurrected for judgment.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  11. #431

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, it is applied to the first group only. The second group obviously cannot be part of the first resurrection because they aren't.


    Exact wording is never required. It says the rest of the dead lived not until...that is a second resurrection.


    It does. Dead people are said to live, and a second group would not live again until some time passed. Living in both cases is a reference to resurrection.

    It's not termed the first resurrection. A person made up the verse numbers. It only makes it look like the second resurrection is called the first but reading the text makes it clear it's not saying any such thing.

    The people he deceives weren't dead. They are the living nations that survive the second coming.

    They can and will still be deceived. Remember, Satan was gone for a thousand years and wasn't deceiving them so it is not until he is released that they become deceived again.


    They weren't resurrected before the 1000 years. They are mortals, and are killed by fire then resurrected for judgment.

    Exact wording is never required? Come on, lets at least be in the same ball park here. The text is not even close to what your saying. He saw souls that were killed as martyrs reign with Christ. If you die today in Christ, you will reign with him too until the resurrection. Your soul never dies until Christ destroys it.

    Dead people are said to live. No my friend he saw "souls" of those who died live. and a second group would not live again until some time passed. Living in both cases is a reference to resurrection.. "Living" in this passage does not apply to the resurrection of their bodies. This is a far stretch to make it fit the belief of a pre-millennial rapture. You are taking the text out of context and making assumptions that are not written.

    It's not termed the first resurrection. A person made up the verse numbers. It only makes it look like the second resurrection is called the first but reading the text makes it clear it's not saying any such thing. Again, the text is what the text is. And this exactly what you would have to do is say to make it fit your belief; "yeah the text says this, but it really means altogether something else".

    The people he deceives weren't dead. They are the living nations that survive the second coming. I'm sorry my friend, no one will survive the 2nd coming of the Lord. When our Lord cries out with a loud voice at the last trump of God and swears by him that liveth forever that time should be no longer. That is exactly what he means, "time no longer". The end of time, is the end of time. No buts and no excuses. People are not going to survive his wrath at his 2nd coming. And this 2nd coming will not be before the millennial.

    Rev 10
    1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
    2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
    3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
    4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
    5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
    6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:


    They can and will still be deceived. Remember, Satan was gone for a thousand years and wasn't deceiving them so it is not until he is released that they become deceived again. No, they were not deceived because Satan was gone a thousand years. They were deceived because they didn't believe the truth. And God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. This is exactly why they were deceived. Paul directly teaches the Christians in the Church (in verse 3), "Let no man deceive you by any means". That day will not come until man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition is revealed. So your belief of a resurrection before the millennial does not at all support Paul's teaching. Yet you are one of those being deceived in this belief.

    2 Thessalonians 2
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    They weren't resurrected before the 1000 years. They are mortals, and are killed by fire then resurrected for judgment. No they were not resurrected before the 1000 years, because there is no Resurrection before the millennial.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, it is applied to the first group only. The second group obviously cannot be part of the first resurrection because they aren't.


    Exact wording is never required. It says the rest of the dead lived not until...that is a second resurrection.


    It does. Dead people are said to live, and a second group would not live again until some time passed. Living in both cases is a reference to resurrection.

    It's not termed the first resurrection. A person made up the verse numbers. It only makes it look like the second resurrection is called the first but reading the text makes it clear it's not saying any such thing.

    The people he deceives weren't dead. They are the living nations that survive the second coming.

    They can and will still be deceived. Remember, Satan was gone for a thousand years and wasn't deceiving them so it is not until he is released that they become deceived again.


    They weren't resurrected before the 1000 years. They are mortals, and are killed by fire then resurrected for judgment.

    Exact wording is never required? Come on, lets at least be in the same ball park here. The text is not even close to what your saying. He saw souls that were killed as martyrs reign with Christ. If you die today in Christ, you will reign with him too until the resurrection. Your soul never dies until Christ destroys it.

    Dead people are said to live. No my friend he saw "souls" of those who died live. and a second group would not live again until some time passed. Living in both cases is a reference to resurrection.. "Living" in this passage does not apply to the resurrection of their bodies. This is a far stretch to make it fit the belief of a pre-millennial rapture. You are taking the text out of context and making assumptions that are not written.

    It's not termed the first resurrection. A person made up the verse numbers. It only makes it look like the second resurrection is called the first but reading the text makes it clear it's not saying any such thing. Again, the text is what the text is. And this exactly what you would have to do is say to make it fit your belief; "yeah the text says this, but it really means altogether something else".

    The people he deceives weren't dead. They are the living nations that survive the second coming. I'm sorry my friend, no one will survive the 2nd coming of the Lord. When our Lord cries out with a loud voice at the last trump of God and swears by him that liveth forever that time should be no longer. That is exactly what he means, "time no longer". The end of time, is the end of time. No buts and no excuses. People are not going to survive his wrath at his 2nd coming. And this 2nd coming will not be before the millennial.

    Rev 10
    1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
    2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
    3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
    4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
    5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
    6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:


    They can and will still be deceived. Remember, Satan was gone for a thousand years and wasn't deceiving them so it is not until he is released that they become deceived again. No, they were not deceived because Satan was gone a thousand years. They were deceived because they didn't believe the truth. And God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. This is exactly why they were deceived. Paul directly teaches the Christians in the Church (in verse 3), "Let no man deceive you by any means". That day will not come until man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition is revealed. So your belief of a resurrection before the millennial does not at all support Paul's teaching. Yet you are one of those being deceived in this belief.

    2 Thessalonians 2
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    They weren't resurrected before the 1000 years. They are mortals, and are killed by fire then resurrected for judgment. No they were not resurrected before the 1000 years, because there is no Resurrection before the millennial.

  12. #432
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Yet you are one of those being deceived in this belief.
    Statements like this usually belong solely to the person saying it.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  13. #433

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    More proof. No rapture!

    PSALM 110 [1] The LORD said unto my Lord, SIT THOU AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. [3] Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in THE DAY OF HIS WRATH.

    Well, ya see what the scripture says. Jesus will be at the right hand of God UNTIL His enemies are His footstool. Jesus is still there {at the fathers right hand} UNTIL His day of wrath. The Day of the Lord.

    ZEPHANIAH 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [15] THAT DAY IS A DAY OF WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, [16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. [18] Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S WRATH; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

    Yup. His day of wrath IS the Day of the Lord. Jesus will not sneak away from the Fathers right hand 7 years before the Day of the Lord and bring us to heaven as the Rapturist claim.

    More proof. No rapture!

    PSALM 110 [1] The LORD said unto my Lord, SIT THOU AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. [3] Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in THE DAY OF HIS WRATH.

    Well, ya see what the scripture says. Jesus will be at the right hand of God UNTIL His enemies are His footstool. Jesus is still there {at the fathers right hand} UNTIL His day of wrath. The Day of the Lord.

    ZEPHANIAH 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [15] THAT DAY IS A DAY OF WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, [16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. [18] Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S WRATH; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

    Yup. His day of wrath IS the Day of the Lord. Jesus will not sneak away from the Fathers right hand 7 years before the Day of the Lord and bring us to heaven as the Rapturist claim.

  14. #434

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Anyone know why we are getting double posts?

  15. #435

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    More proof. No rapture!

    PSALM 110 [1] The LORD said unto my Lord, SIT THOU AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. [3] Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in THE DAY OF HIS WRATH.

    Well, ya see what the scripture says. Jesus will be at the right hand of God UNTIL His enemies are His footstool. Jesus is still there {at the fathers right hand} UNTIL His day of wrath. The Day of the Lord.

    ZEPHANIAH 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [15] THAT DAY IS A DAY OF WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, [16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. [18] Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S WRATH; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

    Yup. His day of wrath IS the Day of the Lord. Jesus will not sneak away from the Fathers right hand 7 years before the Day of the Lord and bring us to heaven as the Rapturist claim.

    More proof. No rapture!

    PSALM 110 [1] The LORD said unto my Lord, SIT THOU AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE THINE ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOL. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. [3] Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in THE DAY OF HIS WRATH.

    Well, ya see what the scripture says. Jesus will be at the right hand of God UNTIL His enemies are His footstool. Jesus is still there {at the fathers right hand} UNTIL His day of wrath. The Day of the Lord.

    ZEPHANIAH 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [15] THAT DAY IS A DAY OF WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, [16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. [18] Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S WRATH; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

    Yup. His day of wrath IS the Day of the Lord. Jesus will not sneak away from the Fathers right hand 7 years before the Day of the Lord and bring us to heaven as the Rapturist claim.
    Excellent post. I agree with your viewpoints.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pre-Trib Raptured Where???
    By DavePeace in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 172
    Last Post: May 3rd 2019, 07:02 PM
  2. Will the raptured be mortal or immortal?
    By Trivalee in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Mar 22nd 2016, 04:58 PM
  3. How will the prisoners be raptured?
    By wendy-p-marshall in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Mar 10th 2016, 09:24 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •