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Thread: Raptured to heaven?

  1. #436
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    More proof. No rapture!
    There's a rapture just not a pre-trib rapture.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    More proof. No rapture!
    There's a rapture just not a pre-trib rapture.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #437

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    There's a rapture just not a pre-trib rapture.
    A rapture to heaven?

    JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    If so. Will scripture above suddenly vanish from your bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    There's a rapture just not a pre-trib rapture.
    A rapture to heaven?

    JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    If so. Will scripture above suddenly vanish from your bible?

  3. #438
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    A rapture to heaven?

    JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    If so. Will scripture above suddenly vanish from your bible?
    This is a basely question.
    The statement made by Jesus was TRUE when He said it. Does that mean it will ALWAYS be true? No.
    There is a FURTHER confusion, because the Greek word "heaven" has MULTIPLE meanings.
    It can mean the sky, the cosmos and the 3rd heaven where God is.
    In this verse Jesus is referring to the 3rd heaven where God is.

    We KNOW from scripture that Elijah ascended into the heaven (known as sky) - some claim the 3rd heaven, but I disagree based upon this verse (for one).
    There will be a rapture into the heaven (known as sky) because again scripture states this as a reality - we will meet Him in the clouds (which is in the air/sky) 1 Thess 4:17

    So the scripture doesn't vanish. It was true of that moment, but we need to see what else scripture tells us of future things.

  4. #439

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    This is a basely question.
    The statement made by Jesus was TRUE when He said it. Does that mean it will ALWAYS be true? No.
    There is a FURTHER confusion, because the Greek word "heaven" has MULTIPLE meanings.
    It can mean the sky, the cosmos and the 3rd heaven where God is.
    In this verse Jesus is referring to the 3rd heaven where God is.

    We KNOW from scripture that Elijah ascended into the heaven (known as sky) - some claim the 3rd heaven, but I disagree based upon this verse (for one).
    There will be a rapture into the heaven (known as sky) because again scripture states this as a reality - we will meet Him in the clouds (which is in the air/sky) 1 Thess 4:17

    So the scripture doesn't vanish. It was true of that moment, but we need to see what else scripture tells us of future things.
    How about this one?

    JOHN 7 [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I GO UNTO HIM THAT SENT ME.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

    I go to Him that sent me. To the Father. Heaven. Jesus said we cant go there

  5. #440
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    How about this one?
    JOHN 7 [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I GO UNTO HIM THAT SENT ME.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.
    I go to Him that sent me. To the Father. Heaven. Jesus said we cant go there
    Again that was true AT THAT TIME.
    We CANNOT meet Him in the clouds EXCEPT He brings us there.
    IOW we CANNOT go to Him without His DIVINE action bringing us to His place.
    He promised that where He will be, there we will be also.
    So the statement is true, but it is not a limited one in the way you are trying to make it.

    A similar one is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the KoG. This is TRUE, yet we, who are of flesh and blood WILL inherit the KoG? How is this so? Because we are to not only be flesh and blood, but also of His Spirit. IOW as things are these things are not possible, but with God, who changes things THEN these things become possible.

    I do NOT personally believe that any scripture shows us being raptured to the 3rd heaven. I admit however that it may happen IF God so chooses to do so.
    What we ARE shown is a rapture to the clouds, meeting Him in the air, and this is what I am looking forward to - for BOTH the living and the dead in Him will participate.

  6. #441

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    JOHN 17 [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I PRAY NOT THAT THOU SHOULDEST TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, BUT THAT THOU SHOULDEST KEEP THEM FROM THE EVIL.

    No wrath for the good guys. No need for a rapture

  7. #442

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    There's a rapture just not a pre-trib rapture.
    Who do you believe is raptured? The Bride?

  8. #443
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    JOHN 17 [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I PRAY NOT THAT THOU SHOULDEST TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, BUT THAT THOU SHOULDEST KEEP THEM FROM THE EVIL.

    No wrath for the good guys. No need for a rapture
    Indeed, no wrath on us, but we will be IN the world when the wrath falls.
    However the Rapture is not for those who are alive alone, but for those who are dead IN Christ. It is in order to bring us together IN Him, where He is, when He returns.

  9. #444
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Indeed, no wrath on us, but we will be IN the world when the wrath falls.
    However the Rapture is not for those who are alive alone, but for those who are dead IN Christ. It is in order to bring us together IN Him, where He is, when He returns.
    Very good, FHG. You have that right, Paul states it clearly in 1 Thess 4:15-17, that the dead in Christ will rise with the living and all will go to be with the Lord.
    Note first that Revelation 20:4 says that it will only be those dead who were killed for their faith during the 3 1/2 year rule of the Anti-Christ.
    Then; note that this all happens AFTER Jesus has left heaven, on His way to earth for His Millennium reign. So the 'rising' will be just a transportation between 2 earthly locations. As what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39

    Your refutations of the verses quoted by B&Q, do not hold water. Jesus made statements that apply to us just as much as to those around Him. If they were only for them, He would have said so.
    Also there are many others that say our home is the earth and only at the end will heaven come to us. Revelation 21:1-7

  10. #445
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Very good, FHG. You have that right, Paul states it clearly in 1 Thess 4:15-17, that the dead in Christ will rise with the living and all will go to be with the Lord.
    Note first that Revelation 20:4 says that it will only be those dead who were killed for their faith during the 3 1/2 year rule of the Anti-Christ.
    Then; note that this all happens AFTER Jesus has left heaven, on His way to earth for His Millennium reign. So the 'rising' will be just a transportation between 2 earthly locations. As what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39

    Your refutations of the verses quoted by B&Q, do not hold water. Jesus made statements that apply to us just as much as to those around Him. If they were only for them, He would have said so.
    Also there are many others that say our home is the earth and only at the end will heaven come to us. Revelation 21:1-7
    Where is my refutation in error?
    You claim it without highlighting why not.
    Something which was true at a certain point in history does NOT mean it is ALWAYS true in every moment in history.
    For example those who promote a rapture to heaven (the 3rd heaven) point to Jesus saying He goes to be with the Father and will prepare a place for us.
    If that statement is ALWAYS true in terms of location, then we ARE raptured to the 3rd heaven.
    However it is NOT correct,as Jesus changes location. He is on earth when saying it, then goes to heaven to do it, but crucial then returns to earth to rejoin us.

  11. #446
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    A rapture to heaven?
    No, to the clouds of Earth.




    If so. Will scripture above suddenly vanish from your bible?
    No but I made it vanish in this reply since it's out of context and not even related to any version of the rapture.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  12. #447
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    I am pretty sure that Paul, being one of the most learned Rabbi's of his time, having trained under one of the most venerated sages of Jewish history, Gamliel, that Paul had in mind Isaiah 26 when he wrote 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18. And likely Psalms 27:5. Both of which talk about the righteous being hidden with the Lord.

    Isaiah 26:19-21 Your dead will live;
    Their corpses will rise.

    You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy,
    For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
    And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
    20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms
    And close your doors behind you;
    Hide for a little while
    Until indignation runs its course.
    21 For behold, the Lord is about to come out from His place
    To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
    And the earth will reveal her bloodshed
    And will no longer cover her slain.

    Compared to....

    John 14:2-3 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

    And...

    Psalms 27:5 For in the day of trouble He will conceal me in His tabernacle; (see Jeremiah 30:7)
    In the secret place of His tent He will hide me;
    He will lift me up on a rock.

    All of these suggest that righteous are removed and hidden in the tabernacle or abode of the Lord.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

  13. #448
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    I believe that we have not much longer to wait, for the end times Plan of God to be revealed.
    Our prayer that His Kingdom comes and His will be done on earth.....will be fulfilled.

    What we must remember is to hold firm in our faith and trust for the Lord's protection, during all that must happen.

  14. #449
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I believe that we have not much longer to wait, for the end times Plan of God to be revealed.
    Our prayer that His Kingdom comes and His will be done on earth.....will be fulfilled.

    What we must remember is to hold firm in our faith and trust for the Lord's protection, during all that must happen.
    I think that has been the standard attitude believers should hold throughout history. And I will agree, time is running short. It should motivate us more to reach out to a dying world with the light of Yeshua.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

  15. #450

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, to the clouds of Earth.

    No but I made it vanish in this reply since it's out of context and not even related to any version of the rapture.
    Which scripture did you make vanish

    JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    Above scripture relates to the so called rapture

    JOHN 7 [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I GO UNTO HIM THAT SENT ME.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

    I go to Him that sent me. To the Father. Heaven. Jesus said we cant go there. This to relates

    JOHN 17 [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I PRAY NOT THAT THOU SHOULDEST TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, BUT THAT THOU SHOULDEST KEEP THEM FROM THE EVIL.

    The Word knew you guys would come along.

    So which of those scriptures do not relate to the rapture? A better question is WHY do you believe none of these scriptures would relate to your version of the rapture?

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