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Thread: Raptured to heaven?

  1. #76
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yes that's where the one taken is taken to. They come with Christ to that Armageddon battle.
    really Jesus is obviously saying that the ones taken are dead

  2. #77
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    really Jesus is obviously saying that the ones taken are dead


    No, he is answering where the one taken is taken to. To the place where the dead will be fed upon by birds. But, in the decades of discussing this I have never seen one person ever see it in a different way so not expecting that to happen now.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  3. #78
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, he is answering where the one taken is taken to. To the place where the dead will be fed upon by birds. But, in the decades of discussing this I have never seen one person ever see it in a different way so not expecting that to happen now.
    Do you really think that Jesus would answer the question like that?

    Remember you are looking at this after revelation was written when Jesus said this in the Olivit discourse revelation wasn’t written yet so the deciples would have no idea what Jesus was talking about

    Wouldn’t Jesus of just answered to be with Him if that was where they went?

  4. #79
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    John 14:1-3
    14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
    Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

  5. #80
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Do you really think that Jesus would answer the question like that?
    Yes. He sure isn't going to take the dead from one place to another. Naturally he is taking the living with him where he is going. Those that die go to Armageddon themselves and they are already there when Christ arrives with his raptured/taken saints.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  6. #81
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Matthew 24:37-41
    37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    In verse 39 Jesus states that the flood came and took them away. The ones caught in the flood were taken in judgment as they drowned in the flood

    Jesus then goes onto say " That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

    Thus the ones taken are taken (killed) in judgment. The ones left behind were Noah and his family they were saved in the ark. Like the saints are saved in the new ark which is Jesus

    Jesus uses the same word "taken" in bother verses
    Don't know how one can argue against this.
    Good post Marty.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  7. #82
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    John 14:1-3
    14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
    Is this prepared place any different to the NJ all prepared,.....or the place we inherit from the foundation of the world at his coming??
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  8. #83
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Matthew 24:37-41
    37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    In verse 39 Jesus states that the flood came and took them away. The ones caught in the flood were taken in judgment as they drowned in the flood

    Jesus then goes onto say " That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

    Thus the ones taken are taken (killed) in judgment. The ones left behind were Noah and his family they were saved in the ark. Like the saints are saved in the new ark which is Jesus

    Jesus uses the same word "taken" in bother verses
    Don't know how one can argue against this.
    Good post Marty.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  9. #84
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Don't know how one can argue against this.
    Good post Marty.
    Thanks for telling me twice LOL

    One day this site may be fixed hopefully

  10. #85
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Is this prepared place any different to the NJ all prepared,.....or the place we inherit from the foundation of the world at his coming??
    One way to look at what CBH posted is to view John 14:1-3 in light of Isaiah 26. The entire chapter is relevant, but specifically....

    Isaiah 26:19-21 Your dead will live;
    Their corpses will rise.
    You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy,
    For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
    And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
    20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms
    And close your doors behind you;
    Hide for a little while
    Until indignation runs its course.

    21 For behold, the Lord is about to come out from His place
    To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
    And the earth will reveal her bloodshed
    And will no longer cover her slain.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

  11. #86
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    One could also throw in this little nugget from King David......

    Psalms 27:5 For in the day of trouble He will conceal me in His tabernacle;
    In the secret place of His tent He will hide me;
    He will lift me up on a rock.

    Which ties into......

    Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it:
    it is even the time of Jacob's trouble;
    but he shall be saved out of it.
    Israel.... the Believer's insurance policy!

  12. #87
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    John 14:1-3
    14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
    Doesn't say we go to heaven, but that we go to Jesus.
    SO the KEY question is WHERE is Jesus?
    The answer is He has descended from heaven and meets us in the clouds.
    So the place first of all we are with Him is in the clouds (which is A heaven - some call it the first).
    But then where does Jesus go?
    Any decision is then based on other passages. This is true for BOTH pre-trib and post-trib views, for a rapture to heaven or not.

    Now it is clear from this passage that BEFORE Jesus descends, the NJ is in heaven (the third), but what happens to the NJ? It descends from heaven to earth.
    So it is a question of timing.

    What is important though is that THIS passage does NOT state we are raptured to heaven. In fact there are NO passages which actually state we are raptured to heaven. Instead it has to be argued with a certain viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    John 14:1-3
    14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
    Doesn't say we go to heaven, but that we go to Jesus.
    SO the KEY question is WHERE is Jesus?
    The answer is He has descended from heaven and meets us in the clouds.
    So the place first of all we are with Him is in the clouds (which is A heaven - some call it the first).
    But then where does Jesus go?
    Any decision is then based on other passages. This is true for BOTH pre-trib and post-trib views, for a rapture to heaven or not.

    Now it is clear from this passage that BEFORE Jesus descends, the NJ is in heaven (the third), but what happens to the NJ? It descends from heaven to earth.
    So it is a question of timing.

    What is important though is that THIS passage does NOT state we are raptured to heaven. In fact there are NO passages which actually state we are raptured to heaven. Instead it has to be argued with a certain viewpoint.

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    John 14:1-3
    14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
    Sounds more like the death of an individual believer, and their spirit uniting with Christ, rather some group resurrection pretrib rapture bodily gathering.

    John 14’s passage is much more aligned of Paul’s writings, since John 14 provided no eschatology references or context.

    “For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.”
    2 Corinthians 5

    “According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you”
    Philippians 1

  14. #89
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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Sounds more like the death of an individual believer, and their spirit uniting with Christ, rather some group resurrection pretrib rapture bodily gathering.
    It was said directly to Peter after Jesus told Peter that he would deny Himself.

    John 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later." 37 Peter said to Him, "Lord, why can I not follow You right now? I will lay down my life for You." 38 Jesus answered, "Will you lay down your life for Me? Truly, truly, I say to you, a rooster will not crow until you deny Me three times.

    14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 "And you know the way where I am going."

    There's a chiasm there too that centers around 14:1.

    It's a wonderful passage where Jesus is telling Peter to not let his heart be troubled by the denial. Jesus was and has, taken care of it on the cross. While Peter could not lay down his life for Jesus, Jesus could and would lay down His life for Peter.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greeny View Post
    Raptured to heaven? Yes. But I believe it's after the tribulation. I think the Bible is pretty clear that Jesus has a second coming where he will a) "rapture" us and b) defeat the enemy once and for all. While Revelation doesn't explicitly say when we will be raptured we do know when Jesus comes down to earth and that is after the tribulation. I could only see someone thinking it's pre-tribulation (which for some reason is the most common belief I see nowadays) if they think Jesus is coming back more than just one more time. But you'd think Revelation would take note of that. It doesn't and nowhere does it say that Jesus is coming back more than once. So in my opinion, it's pretty safe to say Jesus is coming back once more after the tribulation to rapture us and defeat the enemy.
    I agree. And the worst thing about the Pretrib Rapture teaching is that it completely undoes the value of the book of Revelation. That book is all about encouraging Christians to persevere in times of Tribulation. But if we're taught that we can escape the Tribulation, we will derive no benefit from this book at all. It will be all about escapism, and not endurance. Thanks for your bold statement of belief!

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