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Thread: Giving antichrist his due

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    Giving antichrist his due

    I know that there are many different opinions as to who antichrist might be, what might be his religion, etc. But just to illustrate my point, lets see what would happen if antichrist was the pope. Wouldn't it be great that all the atheists, satanists, etc. would turn into catholics! Sure, they would still go to hell, since catholicism is not as good as protestantism. But if we take for granted that a certain atheist or a certain satanist would never become a protestant (and, therefore, would never go to heaven) wouldn't it be at least a "better option" if he were to get converted into catholicism than if he were to stay a satanist? Thus, antichrist would accomplish both good and bad deeds: his good deeds would be converting atheists and satanists into catholicism, and his bad deeds would be converting protestants into catholicism.

    Now, as I said, I realize that not everyone believes antichrist would be a pope. But you see if antichrist was a Jew or a Muslim, I would be able to say the same thing. It would certainly be a good idea to convert satanists into Judaism, or Islam, or whatever the case might be -- although of course it would be bad to convert Protestants into those religions.

    Regardless of what religion antichrist might have, the Bible is clear on one thing: "even the most elect would be deceived if possible". This verse alone implies that the religion of antichrist would HAVE to be the religion of One True God of the Bible, with some distortions, and, therefore, the above points apply.

    In fact I have a theory. Maybe the microchip implant will create brain waves that would cause people to have spiritual experiences. If so, then some lame Christian who just warms pews on sunday would certainly benefit from having a REAL spiritual experience for ones. However, since that spiritual experience would have some elements of idloatry, it would be a bad thing to make a true Christian have it. But if you aren't dealing with a true Christian but with a false one then you can say that he is going to hell anyway so why not at least enhance his faith somewhat.

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    Re: Giving antichrist his due

    Quote Originally Posted by Subriemannian View Post
    I know that there are many different opinions as to who antichrist might be, what might be his religion, etc. But just to illustrate my point, lets see what would happen if antichrist was the pope. Wouldn't it be great that all the atheists, satanists, etc. would turn into catholics! Sure, they would still go to hell, since catholicism is not as good as protestantism. But if we take for granted that a certain atheist or a certain satanist would never become a protestant (and, therefore, would never go to heaven) wouldn't it be at least a "better option" if he were to get converted into catholicism than if he were to stay a satanist? Thus, antichrist would accomplish both good and bad deeds: his good deeds would be converting atheists and satanists into catholicism, and his bad deeds would be converting protestants into catholicism.

    Now, as I said, I realize that not everyone believes antichrist would be a pope. But you see if antichrist was a Jew or a Muslim, I would be able to say the same thing. It would certainly be a good idea to convert satanists into Judaism, or Islam, or whatever the case might be -- although of course it would be bad to convert Protestants into those religions.

    Regardless of what religion antichrist might have, the Bible is clear on one thing: "even the most elect would be deceived if possible". This verse alone implies that the religion of antichrist would HAVE to be the religion of One True God of the Bible, with some distortions, and, therefore, the above points apply.

    In fact I have a theory. Maybe the microchip implant will create brain waves that would cause people to have spiritual experiences. If so, then some lame Christian who just warms pews on sunday would certainly benefit from having a REAL spiritual experience for ones. However, since that spiritual experience would have some elements of idloatry, it would be a bad thing to make a true Christian have it. But if you aren't dealing with a true Christian but with a false one then you can say that he is going to hell anyway so why not at least enhance his faith somewhat.
    There is something to seeing both good and bad in somebody who is bad. But there isn't much merit to seeing good in the Antichrist, in Satan, or in anybody resistant and hardened to the truth.

    I personally see the "2nd Beast" as a corrupt pope who will convert Catholicism into something completely apostate. This isn't good. This is not Christianity.

    It may be that Rome will be burned to remove all vestiges of original Catholicism in order to complete the process of conversion from Catholicism to AntiChristianity? But yes, in an attempt to deceive God's elect, there has to be a claim to something nominally "Christian."

    And that's why I think the False Prophet will originate within Catholicism, and turn that Church away from orthodox Catholicism to something completely perverted. Those who follow that path remind me of liberal Christians today who are abandoning older social standards that the Church has long lived by. They are changing with the times, and adopting nonChristian practices as if they are Christian.

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    Re: Giving antichrist his due

    Quote Originally Posted by Subriemannian View Post
    I know that there are many different opinions as to who antichrist might be, what might be his religion, etc. But just to illustrate my point, lets see what would happen if antichrist was the pope. Wouldn't it be great that all the atheists, satanists, etc. would turn into catholics! Sure, they would still go to hell, since catholicism is not as good as protestantism. But if we take for granted that a certain atheist or a certain satanist would never become a protestant (and, therefore, would never go to heaven) wouldn't it be at least a "better option" if he were to get converted into catholicism than if he were to stay a satanist? Thus, antichrist would accomplish both good and bad deeds: his good deeds would be converting atheists and satanists into catholicism, and his bad deeds would be converting protestants into catholicism.
    I don't know what kind of Bible background you have or what kind of Christian background you have, but I don't know ANY Christian who thinks it is "great" that people go to hell.

    Also, being a protestant is not your ticket into heaven. Being a Catholic is not your ticket into hell.

    What saves a person and ergo allows them into heaven is to submit themselves to Jesus Christ as Savior and LORD and to be washed clean by his blood. Because this is true and one must be saved by the name of Jesus Christ.....
    • There are people who attend protestant churches who are lost and hellbound.
    • There are Catholics who are heavenbound.


    Yes, we believe here that Catholics do teach certain dogma that is very wrong, but we do not believe that BEING a Catholic all by itself makes you lost.

    In the end - all that's going to matter is what you have done with the gift of grace via Jesus Christ. That's all.

    n fact I have a theory. Maybe the microchip implant will create brain waves that would cause people to have spiritual experiences. If so, then some lame Christian who just warms pews on sunday would certainly benefit from having a REAL spiritual experience for ones. However, since that spiritual experience would have some elements of idloatry, it would be a bad thing to make a true Christian have it. But if you aren't dealing with a true Christian but with a false one then you can say that he is going to hell anyway so why not at least enhance his faith somewhat.
    The only ones that can bring about a "REAL" spiritual experience is the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, and God the Father - not a microchip.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  4. #4

    Re: Giving antichrist his due

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    I don't know what kind of Bible background you have or what kind of Christian background you have, but I don't know ANY Christian who thinks it is "great" that people go to hell.
    You didn't read carefully what I wrote. I didn't say "its great they are going to hell". I said "IF we know they are going to hell, THEN its great that they are going to less severe level of hell" (if we assume catholics go to less severe level than atheists and satanists). Note the words if and then, they are important.

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    Also, being a protestant is not your ticket into heaven. Being a Catholic is not your ticket into hell.
    Once again note the word "if". I was talking about "what if antichrist will be catholic". In this case catholicism "will" be a ticket to hell. During the time of antichrist the salvation concept would be different than today.


    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    The only ones that can bring about a "REAL" spiritual experience is the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ, and God the Father - not a microchip.
    What I was trying to say is that not all Christians have those REAL spiritual experiences as you put them. So, when it comes to the Christians that don't have those real experiences, microchip is better than nothing. Kind of like when it comes to atheists, catholicism is better than nothing. Thats why antichrist would do good to the faithless ones while he would do a lot of damage to the faithful ones.

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    Re: Giving antichrist his due

    Quote Originally Posted by Subriemannian View Post
    You didn't read carefully what I wrote. I didn't say "its great they are going to hell". I said "IF we know they are going to hell, THEN its great that they are going to less severe level of hell" (if we assume catholics go to less severe level than atheists and satanists). Note the words if and then, they are important.

    Once again note the word "if". I was talking about "what if antichrist will be catholic". In this case catholicism "will" be a ticket to hell. During the time of antichrist the salvation concept would be different than today.

    What I was trying to say is that not all Christians have those REAL spiritual experiences as you put them. So, when it comes to the Christians that don't have those real experiences, microchip is better than nothing. Kind of like when it comes to atheists, catholicism is better than nothing. Thats why antichrist would do good to the faithless ones while he would do a lot of damage to the faithful ones.
    There is NO less severe level of hell.
    Also because you are Catholic does not mean you go to hell either.
    Jayne highlighted that the question is whether you KNOW Jesus or not. If you do then you don't go to Hell for you are a Christian.
    If you don't then you will face judgement.
    This is the ONLY IF that matters.

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