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Thread: Raptured to heaven?

  1. #1

    Raptured to heaven?

    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    I'm not Pretrib Rapture, but I believe we are caught up into the air. That seems to be the equivalent of heaven. In Daniel 7 and in places in the NT, it is described as coming with the clouds. So it is more a being obtained by Christ at his return from heaven. We have to go to where he is in order to return with him.

    It is said in 1 Cor 15 that we put on spiritual bodies, which is comparable to a heavenly body. In order to do so we go to be with Christ in heaven before we return with him from heaven.

    But it all takes place in a second. So it is hardly a vacation trip. And it is not a destination. Rather, it is a means to an end. We are instantly changed so that we may participate with Christ in his 2nd Coming to earth.

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    The problem is that scripture uses the same word for heaven, whether it means the atmosphere, or space or where God is. It also often uses the plural form.
    I don't believe we are raptured to the 3rd heaven (where God is), as the clearest statements speak of meeting Jesus in the clouds (which is therefore the sky/atmosphere).
    We then go where He goes and He comes down to earth, so we do too.

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    We are raptured to change our bodies so we can enter the current heaven while God destroys the earth then come down as the new Jerusalem the holy City

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    We are raptured to change our bodies so we can enter the current heaven while God destroys the earth then come down as the new Jerusalem the holy City
    False idea.
    We CANNOT be in the CURRENT heaven while God supposedly destroys the earth, because God is ALSO destroying the current heaven AT THAT TIME.

  6. #6

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    My view:

    Paul talked about "IN THAT DAY"...

    2Tim4:8 [blb] -

    "From now on the crown [G4735 - stephanos] of righteousness is laid up for me, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me in that day; but not only to me, but also to all those loving His appearing."

    Also, where he speaks of the Church which is His body having the task of "we shall judge angels" 1Cor6:3[14; where in v.14 the verb pertaining to US (the Church which is His body) is used only one other place (with a view to a specific "PURPOSE")]; so...


    in view of these two [3?] things (and a number other things not named here), I believe "the 24 elders" (sitting on "24 thrones") represent "the Church which is His body" (up there) BEFORE He opens the FIRST/INITIAL "SEAL" (which starts the events of a very specific time period, unfolding upon the earth), when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Lam2:3-4 [which is similar to the wording of 2Th2:7b-8a]; Rev5:6...)

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    The answer is simple; you can't find any proof of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, because such a thing is not in the Bible.
    Some quote 1 Corinthians 15:30-34, that tells about a spiritual transformation. That this refers to people who are Judged worthy to go into Eternity with God, after the Millennium, is proved by Revelation 20:11-15, where it is only then that the Book of Life is opened.

    Delusions:
    Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, no one answered; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before My eyes, and chose what displeased Me. Ezekiel 20:25
    The prevalent error is in thinking that the Israel visible today is still the chosen of God. Wrong; they un-chose themselves, Matthew 27:25 and now it is every born again Christian, who belongs to the new nation of God's people. Matthew 21:43

    With the rapture cult, the initial error is that of separating Israel and the Church, so they could still look for salvation to come to ethnic Israel, as a major tenet of their doctrine: Israel on earth, the Church in heaven. The pre-Trib rapture teaches removal to ensure survival from tribulation, but salvation has always been stated to redeem us from our fallen sinful state, in our earthly situation.
    Acts 20:21 I know that when I am gone, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 2 Peter 2:1-3, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

    The rapture idea is that God will “save us” from that which must occur – thus equating this supposed removal with salvation. After so many Christians saw the inadequacy and misappropriation of the verses used to promote Pre-Trib, the Post-Trib alternative was then built around surviving the tribulation – thus sustaining the illusion that survival is somehow related to salvation.
    A strong delusion is mentioned in the New Testament: 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this reason God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

    This delusion has people looking forward to the 2nd Coming (in the so called rapture to heaven, Pre, Mid, or Post) believing in a rapture removal from the earth. The reality is: we experience His glorious salvation when we enter in to the blessed assurance that Christ’s Death means the penalty for our sin has been paid because of His sacrifice on the Cross. Ever since then, believers must trust in Jesus for their salvation and for their protection during the testing times to come. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 31:23-24
    And if the Lord does not save them, just as has happened to the millions of martyrs in the last 2 centuries, then we must die trusting in His promise of resurrection. Revelation 12:11, Revelation 13:10 Our souls will be kept under the heavenly Altar, Revelation 6:9-11, and Jesus will bring them with Him at His Return, then bring us to life again, to reign with Him for 1000 years. Revelation 20:4

    Jesus said: take care that you be not deceived..... Seems that many have been rather careless!

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    False idea.
    We CANNOT be in the CURRENT heaven while God supposedly destroys the earth, because God is ALSO destroying the current heaven AT THAT TIME.
    Sure if you want to be technical but I'm meaning in the presence of God who is in heaven

  9. #9

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    My view:

    Paul talked about "IN THAT DAY"...

    2Tim4:8 [blb] -

    "From now on the crown [G4735 - stephanos] of righteousness is laid up for me, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me in that day; but not only to me, but also to all those loving His appearing."

    Also, where he speaks of the Church which is His body having the task of "we shall judge angels" 1Cor6:3[14; where in v.14 the verb pertaining to US (the Church which is His body) is used only one other place (with a view to a specific "PURPOSE")]; so...


    in view of these two [3?] things (and a number other things not named here), I believe "the 24 elders" (sitting on "24 thrones") represent "the Church which is His body" (up there) BEFORE He opens the FIRST/INITIAL "SEAL" (which starts the events of a very specific time period, unfolding upon the earth), when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Lam2:3-4 [which is similar to the wording of 2Th2:7b-8a]; Rev5:6...)
    So... Paul speaks of "in that day / that day" some 5x in 2 Timothy (1:9-18 [vv.12,18 esp.]; 4:8... note the words "IN CHRIST" and "before the world began" words of 1:9, which pertain to "the Church which is His body"). This refers to [the future] "in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (and similar) which I believe are ALL [contexts referring to] set IN HEAVEN (Phil1:6,10;2:16; 1Cor1:8; 2Cor1:14); whereas [by contrast] the phrase "the Day of the Lord" is wholly set ON THE EARTH (unfolding on the earth over time: SEAL #1 through to the end of the earthly MK age; all "earthly" located), 1Th5:2-3,10b; 2Th2:2-3; 2Pet3:10-12.

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Sure if you want to be technical but I'm meaning in the presence of God who is in heaven
    Which according to your interpretation is destroyed as is the earth. Therefore it shows your interpretation is wrong.

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    A number of other posters have already alluded to it, but 1st Thessalonians 4 says that we are raptured to the air and the clouds. But this could be heaven. According to Genesis 1:6-7 heaven is BETWEEN water ON the earth and water ABOVE the earth. Clouds are water. So the heavens spoken of could be in the region of the clouds. But we do not have to settle this. We have another proof of the place we are raptured to.

    In Revelation Chapter 4 John is raptured to heaven (v.1). In verse 2 the throne is set in heaven. In verse 4 we are shown the 24 Elders and in verse 6 we are shown the 4 Creatures. The setting is heaven, so these 24 Elders and 4 Creatures are heavenly. In Revelation 7, starting in verse 9, we have a great multitude from every nation associated with Christ and His blood. And in verses 10-11 the setting again has the 24 Elders and the 4 Creatures PLUS the angels. It must be heaven.

    Again, in Revelation 14:1-5 we have a select group of people associated with Jesus. Their description makes them the best of Christians. They also stand before the throne and the 24 Elders and 4 Creatures are present. It must be heaven. Added to this, this select Company were "redeemed FROM the earth" (v.3).

    Finally, The last four of five men raptured were raptured to heaven - Elijah, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Apostles Paul and John. Philip was raptured horizontally to Azotus though.

    That is the evidence. Take your choice.

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    A number of other posters have already alluded to it, but 1st Thessalonians 4 says that we are raptured to the air and the clouds. But this could be heaven. According to Genesis 1:6-7 heaven is BETWEEN water ON the earth and water ABOVE the earth. Clouds are water. So the heavens spoken of could be in the region of the clouds. But we do not have to settle this. We have another proof of the place we are raptured to.

    In Revelation Chapter 4 John is raptured to heaven (v.1). In verse 2 the throne is set in heaven. In verse 4 we are shown the 24 Elders and in verse 6 we are shown the 4 Creatures. The setting is heaven, so these 24 Elders and 4 Creatures are heavenly. In Revelation 7, starting in verse 9, we have a great multitude from every nation associated with Christ and His blood. And in verses 10-11 the setting again has the 24 Elders and the 4 Creatures PLUS the angels. It must be heaven.
    Here is where you go wrong.
    There is NO requirement for Rev 7:9 onwards to be in heaven.
    In fact there are numerous clues which tell you it is NOT in heaven but on earth.
    The first is that it is AFTER the GT has ended. This means chronologically it is about the end of things, even as the start of the chapter is before things kick off.
    The second is that it is a reenactment of when Jesus rode into Jerusalem.
    Third note the palm branches they are waving in verse 9.

    So this is NOT heaven but earth.

    Again, in Revelation 14:1-5 we have a select group of people associated with Jesus. Their description makes them the best of Christians. They also stand before the throne and the 24 Elders and 4 Creatures are present. It must be heaven. Added to this, this select Company were "redeemed FROM the earth" (v.3).
    Actually again this is not heaven.
    This is on Mount Zion when Jesus has returned to the earth.

    Finally, The last four of five men raptured were raptured to heaven - Elijah, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Apostles Paul and John. Philip was raptured horizontally to Azotus though.
    That is the evidence. Take your choice.
    Was Jesus described as raptured? The Greek is a different word simply meaning raised up or lifted up.
    Elijah didn't go to heaven, simply horizontally somewhere. They spent three days looking for him but couldn;t find him, but later he wrote a letter to a king AFTER the date of his rapture.
    Neither John or Paul was probably PHYSICALLY raptured - they possibly were, but they were returned to the earth, which is where Jesus is coming back to.

    So based on the evidence we have no one who was raptured destined to remain in heaven.
    We also don't have any scriptures showing us in heaven as the place to remain.

    The most we have is some visions where possibly some one was taken physically up to heaven for a short time.
    Was Isaiah raptured to heaven?
    How about Ezekiel?

  13. #13

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    As a pre-tribber, I also do not see Rev7:9,14,15-17 (the nations) or Rev14:4 (the 144,000 of one nation) referring to their location/destination being "IN HEAVEN" (Rev7:15-17 correlates with Isaiah 49:10, an MK passage; already covered the location/destination of the 144,000 in earlier postings), but "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19 (like in Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [see also G347 in Matt8:11 and parallel]; and Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN"... and many more references to "the age [singular] to come" variously referred to...).

  14. #14

    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    There are many places in scripture which explain this. Here is one that some might miss:

    Psalm 14:2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. 3 They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one....

    5 There they are in great fear, For God is with the generation of the righteous.


    God looks down from heaven upon the children of men and sees that are none that do good. At the same time, God is with the generation of the righteous. How can that be unless the righteous are no longer upon the earth? Doesn't a rapture also explain why those who are corrupt are in great fear?

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    Re: Raptured to heaven?

    Quote Originally Posted by BOWnQUIVER View Post
    Cant seem to find any scriptures saying we go to heaven at the rapture event. Can any of you Rapturist show me one place in scripture that actually says thats where we are going?
    Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us in his Fathers house, and that he will come again so we can be with him in the prepared place.
    This prepared place comes with him at his second coming and dwells on a NHNE.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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