Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    In His Service
    Posts
    3,327

    Post Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?


    “So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly,
    and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”
    Nehemiah 8:8


    “Every word of God is pure … Add thou not unto his words,
    lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”
    Proverbs 30:5-6


    “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”
    Luke 4:4



    If you love the words of the living God, please take a few minutes to delight in His precision and accuracy in giving you the Holy Scriptures in the English language. The blessed God promised to preserve His words (Ps 12:6-7). If the Lord Jesus Christ was concerned about every jot (smallest Hebrew letter) and tittle (small Hebrew mark), then surely He was concerned about the pronouns He chose for the Bible (Matt 5:18). There is a Bible version far more accurate than the others, and it requires thee's and thou's! Yet it is these "archaic" words that are the most popular reason for modern Bible versions.

    When buying a new Bible, many Christians ask for a new version without thee’s and thou’s. They are tired of old words that they no longer use in everyday speech. Many of them want to read the Bible like a novel, in the street language of modern America. They prefer the Readers’ Digest condensed versions of books, including the Bible! And they can easily find a Christian bookstore that will criticize the out-of-date language of the King James Version to sell them a modern Bible reading like a newspaper.

    What most Christians do not know is that the thee’s and thou’s in the King James Version reflect a form of English far superior to that of modern English in two ways. First, these older pronouns are necessary to show whether the second person personal pronoun is singular or plural. And second, they are far more reverent and conducive to prayer and worship than the gender-neutral, street-talk of the modern versions that refer to the great and dreadful God of heaven as the reader’s buddy or copilot.

    http://www.letgodbetrue.com/bible/sc...e-and-thou.php


    A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.

    ~ Charles Spurgeon


  2. #2

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    If the Lord Jesus Christ was concerned about every jot (smallest Hebrew letter) and tittle (small Hebrew mark), then surely He was concerned about the pronouns He chose for the Bible (Matt 5:18).
    Well, actually, the pronouns God chose for the New Testament were Greek pronouns, not English ones.

    And the English "thee" and "thou" are simply the 2nd person singular. They are accurately replaced by "you" in modern English (although I would certainly support retaining "thou" and "thine" in old hymns).

    It is, as you correctly point out, the plural "you" that is a problem. And the solution is perhaps obvious: we could use "y'all" for the plural.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Many of them want to read the Bible like a novel, in the street language of modern America.
    Well, the New Testament was written in the "street language" of the former Greek empire, so that's not entirely unreasonable.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    In His Service
    Posts
    3,327

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    Well, actually, the pronouns God chose for the New Testament were Greek pronouns, not English ones.

    And the English "thee" and "thou" are simply the 2nd person singular. They are accurately replaced by "you" in modern English (although I would certainly support retaining "thou" and "thine" in old hymns).

    It is, as you correctly point out, the plural "you" that is a problem. And the solution is perhaps obvious: we could use "y'all" for the plural.



    Well, the New Testament was written in the "street language" of the former Greek empire, so that's not entirely unreasonable.
    Here is where the word of God stands alone, no matter what the street language of any given generation may be the word of God never changes..

    Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.

    ~ Charles Spurgeon


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,828
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    And second, they are far more reverent and conducive to prayer and worship than the gender-neutral, street-talk of the modern versions that refer to the great and dreadful God of heaven as the reader’s buddy or copilot.
    Jude, This is what I found to be the most saddest thing about that article. The man really believe that saying, "I thank Thee, Lord" is reverent and "I thank You, Lord" is coarse and reduces God to a co-pilot.

    I know you have your mind made up about this, Jude, and I won't try to argue with you. I'll just tell you that men like this person, Jonathan Crosby, and Jack Chick aren't the kind of authors I gravitate to. There's too much sensationalism and well,.....hatred for people.

    I did some snooping around on this guy as he sounds like the typical hyper-fundamentalist who teaches wrong things. Here's some sermons I found from him.

    [1] "Christian Charity: The Godly Response to the 2010 Earthquake in Haiti". CLICK HERE His basic premise on this is to let Haiti and it's people rot. They weren't spiritually good enough for charity He claims that earthquakes are judgement by God upon wicked sinners of which Haiti is one of. He says that we should look at the destruction of Haiti the way that Israel looked at the destruction of the Philistine god, Dagon, when God caused it to fall and break. He says that because Haiti has Catholics and people who practice voodoo that Christians should not question God's destruction of the country and should not lend aid to them. Besides, says Crosby, "God created the poor and the rich - it's his right". "The poor will always be here. We can't eliminate it". "At no time in the Bible were pagans given charity".

    I skimmed a few others. He's a hyper-Calvinist and there one where he preaches about God's hatred of sinners and how he will not save them. And that the Elect are not legally sinners in the first place. All I know is that I am part of God's elect and I was SURELY a sinner when Jesus saved me! That's what I was saved from!!

    Before we start quoting people, I truly feel we should "vet" them as to what their beliefs are on a larger scale. I found a LOT on this man and found none of it fruitful.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    17,414
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?
    No. We don't. We need Jesus.
    This IGNORE button is by far one of the most useful tools I've used to keep my peace while navigating through some of the madness.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    11,959

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Yes we do, if we want to know who is being addressed.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,547

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    What most Christians do not know is that the thee’s and thou’s in the King James Version reflect a form of English far superior to that of modern English in two ways. First, these older pronouns are necessary to show whether the second person personal pronoun is singular or plural. And second, they are far more reverent and conducive to prayer and worship than the gender-neutral, street-talk of the modern versions that refer to the great and dreadful God of heaven as the reader’s buddy or copilot.
    So what you are saying, is we need a southern Appalachian Modern English version.
    No need for Thee, Thou, Thine....or second person confusion.

    Southern Appalachian covers all forms of 2nd person:

    1) you - second person singular
    2) y’all - second person plural (small group)
    3) all y’all - second person plural (great multitude)

  8. #8

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    In the original, that read Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ἐχθὲς καὶ σήμερον ὁ αὐτός, καὶ εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. If you've translated it, you've changed it slightly.

  9. #9

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    So what you are saying, is we need a southern Appalachian Modern English version.
    No need for Thee, Thou, Thine....or second person confusion.

    Southern Appalachian covers all forms of 2nd person:

    1) you - second person singular
    2) y’all - second person plural (small group)
    3) all y’all - second person plural (great multitude)
    I understand that the word "y'all" is fairly widespread in the South. But I guess we're not quite ready to use it in Bible translation.

    The most common solution for now seems to be footnotes when there's a danger of misunderstanding.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    13,420
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?
    I believe you meant, Dost needeth we Thee andeth Thoueh?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    we could use "y'all" for the plural.
    No thanks. I'll stick with "yous".
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  11. #11

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No thanks. I'll stick with "yous".
    To me, "y'all" sounds beautiful, and "yous" is like fingernails on a blackboard.

    But you put your finger on the problem: we all agree that we need a 2nd person plural, but we can't agree on what it should be.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    13,420
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    To me, "y'all" sounds beautiful, and "yous" is like fingernails on a blackboard.

    But you put your finger on the problem: we all agree that we need a 2nd person plural, but we can't agree on what it should be.
    Actually the word "you" does just fine to address a group of people. It's used that way in scripture many times.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  13. #13

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Actually the word "you" does just fine to address a group of people. It's used that way in scripture many times.
    But it isn't always 100% obvious whether an individual or a group is being addressed (which is why many Bible translations have footnotes).

    Some versions of the NASB used a spaced-out "y o u" for the 2nd person plural, which also worked.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    32,508
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Jesus never said “thee” and “thou.”

    Not once.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    32,508
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do We Need Thee and Thou? Thy and Thine?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    So what you are saying, is we need a southern Appalachian Modern English version.
    No need for Thee, Thou, Thine....or second person confusion.

    Southern Appalachian covers all forms of 2nd person:

    1) you - second person singular
    2) y’all - second person plural (small group)
    3) all y’all - second person plural (great multitude)
    Of course all y’all know the op has hatched yet another thinly veiled KJVO thread.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 47
    Last Post: Jan 23rd 2016, 09:25 PM
  2. Trust in the Lord with All Thine Heart
    By alewiscii in forum Growing in Christ
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Mar 4th 2015, 01:40 PM
  3. Replies: 18
    Last Post: Jan 21st 2014, 08:52 PM
  4. Doth Thou Sayeth Unto Thee Thus
    By VerticalReality in forum Christian Fellowship
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: Aug 11th 2009, 06:14 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •