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Thread: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

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    Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    As we speak, the Magnetic Nortth Pole is moving at a modest 55 kilometers per year toward Russia. If this were to continue long enough, Lake Baikal could become, conceiveably, the Magnetic North Pole. Would Russia be able to (pardon the pun) weather it? Or, would Russia become a frozen wasteland? It's military and government forced to move south, and occupy Syria?
    JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
    JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by dan View Post
    As we speak, the Magnetic Nortth Pole is moving at a modest 55 kilometers per year toward Russia. If this were to continue long enough, Lake Baikal could become, conceiveably, the Magnetic North Pole. Would Russia be able to (pardon the pun) weather it? Or, would Russia become a frozen wasteland? It's military and government forced to move south, and occupy Syria?
    I do believe Russia will be involved in that Gog war, however I don't think it will be a desperate survival thing. Ezekiel seems to point to greed. I regard that war as essentially a Muslim war, the antichrist will be Sunni Islam, being Isa (claims to be "Jesus" ). Shi-ite Islam is just using Isa to gather Jews, hoping to destroy Israel after Isa has brought peace to the Middle East. Turkey joins with the shi-ites and promises Russia wealth to join in the attack against antichrist.

    12 I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land.[d]” 13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages[e] will say to you, “Have you come to plunder? Have you gathered your hordes to loot, to carry off silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods and to seize much plunder?”’

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I do believe Russia will be involved in that Gog war, however I don't think it will be a desperate survival thing. Ezekiel seems to point to greed. I regard that war as essentially a Muslim war, the antichrist will be Sunni Islam, being Isa (claims to be "Jesus" ). Shi-ite Islam is just using Isa to gather Jews, hoping to destroy Israel after Isa has brought peace to the Middle East. Turkey joins with the shi-ites and promises Russia wealth to join in the attack against antichrist.

    12 I will plunder and loot and turn my hand against the resettled ruins and the people gathered from the nations, rich in livestock and goods, living at the center of the land.[d]” 13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages[e] will say to you, “Have you come to plunder? Have you gathered your hordes to loot, to carry off silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods and to seize much plunder?”’
    Certainly possible.

    I recall that one pundit worried that by 2050 the armed forces of Russia would be more than 50% Muslim, and that would have a negative effect on the country's ability to maintain control of it's nuclear forces.

    Keep watchin'.
    JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
    JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by dan View Post
    Certainly possible.

    I recall that one pundit worried that by 2050 the armed forces of Russia would be more than 50% Muslim, and that would have a negative effect on the country's ability to maintain control of it's nuclear forces.

    Keep watchin'.
    I think that pundit was speaking about the USSR, which at the time included a number of Muslim states, which are no longer part of it. There are a few autonomous regions, but there is no way for this to be true now.
    The percentage Muslim is 6.5%, however unlike in other countries the majority of these are unaffiliated with any branch of Islam, and only 2.4 million are affiliated as Sunni making 1.6%.

    In the USA the percentage is presently less at 1.1%, but is expected to more than double by 2050.

    However I do not see Russia as part of a Gog war.

    Quote Originally Posted by dan View Post
    Certainly possible.

    I recall that one pundit worried that by 2050 the armed forces of Russia would be more than 50% Muslim, and that would have a negative effect on the country's ability to maintain control of it's nuclear forces.

    Keep watchin'.
    I think that pundit was speaking about the USSR, which at the time included a number of Muslim states, which are no longer part of it. There are a few autonomous regions, but there is no way for this to be true now.
    The percentage Muslim is 6.5%, however unlike in other countries the majority of these are unaffiliated with any branch of Islam, and only 2.4 million are affiliated as Sunni making 1.6%.

    In the USA the percentage is presently less at 1.1%, but is expected to more than double by 2050.

    However I do not see Russia as part of a Gog war.

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Why do you think that the north magnetic poles would have anything to do with the weather in Russia?
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by dan View Post
    As we speak, the Magnetic Nortth Pole is moving at a modest 55 kilometers per year toward Russia. If this were to continue long enough, Lake Baikal could become, conceiveably, the Magnetic North Pole. Would Russia be able to (pardon the pun) weather it? Or, would Russia become a frozen wasteland? It's military and government forced to move south, and occupy Syria?
    I doubt if any external factors in, or on the earth, will play a role in the rebellion of God and Magog. According to the direct statements of Revelation Chapter 20, and the internal evidence of Ezekiel Chapter 38 and 39, we have the whole Millennium BEFORE this rebellion (Rev.20:7-9). During the Millennium we will have a dramatic weather shift. The prophets predict a clement climate and bumper crops from it (Amos.9:13 etc.). The deserts (except Edom) will bloom (Isa.35:1-2). The real reason for the rebellion of Magog and Gog is Jerusalem.

    At the end of this age, the destiny of Jerusalem is settled. It is the City of the Great King, and Emanuel, God with with us, will dwell there and the rule of the whole earth will go out from there. For the Millennium, it is a rule of the rod of iron (Ps.2:9; Rev.19:15), for the first 1,000 years of an everlasting Kingdom, will be on the earth as we know it now. In His infinite wisdom, God never allows anything to continue until it is tested. He allows a man's morals to be tested, He allows a religion to be tested, He allows nations to be tested and even allowed His beloved Son Jesus to be tested to the uttermost. So, that Kingdom which Christ is given, must be tested. It will have provided a safe, war-free, crime-suppressant, evil-eradicating, prosperous reign with the immediate death sentence for those who deserve it, and long life for the rest of men (Isa.65:20). But the Nations are still in the flesh of Adam. And true to all men, they will fawn over Christ the King for favor, but secretly hate Him.

    So, having grown tired of the "rule of the rod of iron", they will be ripe for a rebellion. Satan, bound in an Abyss for these thousand years, is loosed (Rev.20:1-2, 7). Satan has no power over men and the earth, but he is a master of deception. He convinces men - the nations of Gog and Magog - that Jerusalem, the Seat of World rule, is unprotected and vulnerable. There has been peace for a thousand years. No weapons have been manufactured for a thousand years (Isa.2:4; Joel.3:10; Mic.4:3), so weapons for this conquest are scarce - thus the motley armor of Ezekiel 38:4. But the God of Heaven is jealous over His Kingdom. Adam failed to institute this Kingdom and so, at great cost - the life and death of His Son Jesus - was this Kingdom set up after 6,000 years. Men do not need weapons to defend Jerusalem and the Throne of Emmanuel when the God of Heaven watches over it. The God of Heaven does not need men's defenses. Jerusalem, for a thousand years, has had no wall (Ezek.38:11). It has lived in peace and prosperity because the New Covenant made with Israel is in effect. The end of this rebellion is quick and bloody. God causes a massive confusion against the mighty but motley army. Comrades slay comrades and brother slays brother. And as this bloody confusion sweeps the great army of Gog and Magog, fire comes from heaven and devours them (Ezek.38:21-22; Rev.20:9).

    All kingdoms set up by men have failed when tested. Adam failed when tested. But now we have MAN Who never failed as King of kings. And now, under the severest of tests, His Kingdom does not fail though the land be rocked (Ezek.38:19). Satan's kingdom was one of despotism and bondage. Men's kingdoms were plagued by corruption and ultimately failed. Now the Kingdom of God on earth, led by the MAN Jesus, shows what this earth needs - an equitous and benign kingdom of righteousness that can never be moved. I doubt if the magnetic north pole has anything to do with it.

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    I wish you would all use scripture to interpret prophesy not science, false teachers, or CNN.

    Gog is not Russia. (and there is no Russian collusion ).

    The reason why Russia is not Gog is at the time of these events Russia does not exist!!!

    Prior to these events the cities of the world have been destroyed and the world is a wilderness.

    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    Is Russia and the USA around when Christ returns? No, so neither will they when the AntiChrist returns.

    So who are the hooks drawing out? Satan not Putin.

    Job 41
    1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
    31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
    32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
    33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
    34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I wish you would all use scripture to interpret prophesy not science, false teachers, or CNN.

    Gog is not Russia. (and there is no Russian collusion ).

    The reason why Russia is not Gog is at the time of these events Russia does not exist!!!

    Prior to these events the cities of the world have been destroyed and the world is a wilderness.

    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    Is Russia and the USA around when Christ returns? No, so neither will they when the AntiChrist returns.

    So who are the hooks drawing out? Satan not Putin.

    Job 41
    1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
    31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
    32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
    33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
    34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.
    You have randomly selected scriptures, and even then they do not address the annihilation of nations. Magog is around in Genesis 10:2 and still there 1,000 years after Christ's return (Rev.20). Gog is the Land of Ma-Gog in Ezekiel 38:2. And it is also in Revelation Chapter 20 - 1,000 years after Christ's return. In Matthew 25:31-46 the NATIONS are judged - this AFTER Christ's return. In Zechariah 14:16 the NATIONS must go up to Jerusalem annually to worship. This is during the Millennium - the 1,000 years during which Christs rules the NATIONS with a rod of iron. On the new Earth in Revelation Chapter 21 the NATIONS would like to visit New Jerusalem. Some are allowed in, some not (Rev.21:24-27).

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    and even then they do not address the annihilation of nations. Magog is around in Genesis 10:2 and still there 1,000 years after Christ's return (Rev.20). Gog is the Land of Ma-Gog in Ezekiel 38:2. And it is also in Revelation Chapter 20 - 1,000 years after Christ's return.
    There is no literal 1000 years so your debate that the nations still exist is not valid. Gog and Magog are finished like every one else opposed to God at the 2nd coming

    In Matthew 25:31-46 the NATIONS are judged
    ?? These nations are raised from the dead to be judged.

    the 1,000 years during which Christs rules the NATIONS with a rod of iron. On the new Earth in Revelation Chapter 21 the NATIONS would like to visit New Jerusalem. Some are allowed in, some not (Rev.21:24-27).
    [/QUOTE]

    Christ will rule for eternity. This is what occurs during eternity.

    You have randomly selected scriptures,
    Job 41
    1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
    2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

    Is 37
    29 Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest.

    EZ 29
    4 But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

    EZ 38
    And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    There is no connection?

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    There is no literal 1000 years so your debate that the nations still exist is not valid. Gog and Magog are finished like every one else opposed to God at the 2nd coming



    ?? These nations are raised from the dead to be judged.


    Christ will rule for eternity. This is what occurs during eternity.



    Job 41
    1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
    2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

    Is 37
    29 Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest.

    EZ 29
    4 But I will put hooks in thy jaws, and I will cause the fish of thy rivers to stick unto thy scales, and I will bring thee up out of the midst of thy rivers, and all the fish of thy rivers shall stick unto thy scales.

    EZ 38
    And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    There is no connection?
    Job 41:1-2 is an argument by God that No man can control a great beast but that He can. Nothing about the nations there.

    Isaiah 37:29 deals with ONE Nation - Assyria. Sennacherib is defeated but Syria is still here today.

    Ezekiel 29:4 is about Pharaoh of Egypt. Pharaoh is gone but Egypt is till here.

    Ezekiel 38 is about the NATION of Magog, which you say does not exist by this time. Revelation 20 says that Magog rises up to battle AFTER Christ has reigned a thousand years. How could it if, as you say, it is annihilated at Christ's coming?

    You stated, quote; Christ will rule for eternity. How would you like it if the rest of the people on the Forum said that you did NOT mean it literally? You did mean it literally. And so does the Holy Spirit mean that the thousand years of Revelation 20 is literal. There is absolutely no reason to take it any other way, especially when dozens of scriptures say that Christ will come back to set up a Kingdom. The thousand years is a reasonable time for Satan to be bound, then loosed, then cast into the Lake of Fire, and for God to "make pristine" (lit. Gk.) the old earth. And the thousand years is reasonable to let those NOT IN Christ be resurrected later than the Christians. All prophecy up to now that has been fulfilled, has been fulfilled literally and accurately. Why not this one?

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Job 41:1-2 is an argument by God that No man can control a great beast but that He can. Nothing about the nations there.

    Isaiah 37:29 deals with ONE Nation - Assyria. Sennacherib is defeated but Syria is still here today.

    Ezekiel 29:4 is about Pharaoh of Egypt. Pharaoh is gone but Egypt is till here.
    Magog is the kingdom ruled by Satan. Assyria and Egypt in those verses were typologies of this in the past and what to come.

    Ezekiel 38 is about the NATION of Magog, which you say does not exist by this time.
    Not sure why you say this,???? Magog of course has to exist in EZ 38...

    Revelation 20 says that Magog rises up to battle AFTER Christ has reigned a thousand years. How could it if, as you say, it is annihilated at Christ's coming?
    Only if you take a 1000 year literally. There is no 1000 years so Magog being gather occurs before the seconding coming. Ask yourself are there two great battles one before and one yet after Christ returns as would be the case in a literal 1000 years?

    You stated, quote; Christ will rule for eternity. How would you like it if the rest of the people on the Forum said that you did NOT mean it literally? You did mean it literally. And so does the Holy Spirit mean that the thousand years of Revelation 20 is literal. There is absolutely no reason to take it any other way, especially when dozens of scriptures say that Christ will come back to set up a Kingdom. The thousand years is a reasonable time for Satan to be bound, then loosed, then cast into the Lake of Fire, and for God to "make pristine" (lit. Gk.) the old earth. And the thousand years is reasonable to let those NOT IN Christ be resurrected later than the Christians. All prophecy up to now that has been fulfilled, has been fulfilled literally and accurately. Why not this one?
    Thee are soooo many reason why the 1000 years is a metaphorical phrase and not literal. Rev 20 is an overlap which the theme is judgement of all things. Actually Satan is cast into and out before Christ returns. So does this event happen twice also? Are there two little seasons? A previous thread of mine...


    So why is the number "1000" a metaphor and does not actually mean specifically 1000 years?

    John is trying to quantify a measure of time which is unmeasurable. Now why is it unmeasurable? Well outside this realm wherein the sun, moon, and stars gives us the ability to measure time there is are no instruments to measure time outside this realm. Thus John when speaking of how long Satan is in the pit uses the number 1000.

    Why does John use 1000? Why not 100 or 1 million?

    Well the number 1000 was used in scripture for the same purpose as a metaphor thus the Spirit has John use the same number for consistency. Both instances are used as a metaphor and not a literal 1000 years.

    Peter 3
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Rev 20
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


    Are there any other scriptures which may show timelessness outside this realm which would support the need to use a metaphor?

    Yes. John himself in trying to determine a length of an event has to surmise at the time prior to the 7th seal being opened. Was John not sure, did not the Spirit give him the specific time? No John could not be sure as time outside this realm is not measured. Though the time was relatively short he knew it was "about" a half hour.

    Rev 20:8
    1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    Now another support is the fact that no one not even Christ himself knows when the when the son of man will come. How is this possible? Well only because the instruments of being able to measure time have vanished, IE the sun, moon and stars.

    Mark 13
    31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
    32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


    Other events contradict the possibility of a literal 1000 years.

    The resurrection of the dead both godly and ungodly occurs on the same day and not 1000+ years apart. Actually the saved are judged also at the GWT
    Are there really two little seasons? We see one in Rev 6 before Christs returns? Are they different or really the same time?
    Are there really two instances whereby an entity comes up from the bottomless pit? We see a beast come up AFTER 3.5 years referenced in Rev 11 and Rev 17. Which beast could this possibly be? The other beasts are already on earth. Also is the pit really like a revolving door? Open and shut, and open and shut again and then opened one last time?
    Does not IS 14 already so Satan in the pit prior to the 2nd coming? Does he go down twice?
    Are there really two great battles which take place whereby the whole world is gathered?. We see the battle of the great day in Rev 16 and another in Rev 20, different or the same?
    Does not the earth burn with unquenchable fire at the presence of the Lord at his return. Does not the sun, moon, stars and old earth roll up as a scroll at the 2nd coming? Thus the old earth passes away and a new earth would replace it. Is the supposed millennium with a new earth?
    Where is there any other support in scripture for a literal 1000 year period after Christ returns?

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Magog is the kingdom ruled by Satan. Assyria and Egypt in those verses were typologies of this in the past and what to come.


    Not sure why you say this,???? Magog of course has to exist in EZ 38...



    Only if you take a 1000 year literally. There is no 1000 years so Magog being gather occurs before the seconding coming. Ask yourself are there two great battles one before and one yet after Christ returns as would be the case in a literal 1000 years?



    Thee are soooo many reason why the 1000 years is a metaphorical phrase and not literal. Rev 20 is an overlap which the theme is judgement of all things. Actually Satan is cast into and out before Christ returns. So does this event happen twice also? Are there two little seasons? A previous thread of mine...


    So why is the number "1000" a metaphor and does not actually mean specifically 1000 years?

    John is trying to quantify a measure of time which is unmeasurable. Now why is it unmeasurable? Well outside this realm wherein the sun, moon, and stars gives us the ability to measure time there is are no instruments to measure time outside this realm. Thus John when speaking of how long Satan is in the pit uses the number 1000.

    Why does John use 1000? Why not 100 or 1 million?

    Well the number 1000 was used in scripture for the same purpose as a metaphor thus the Spirit has John use the same number for consistency. Both instances are used as a metaphor and not a literal 1000 years.

    Peter 3
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Rev 20
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


    Are there any other scriptures which may show timelessness outside this realm which would support the need to use a metaphor?

    Yes. John himself in trying to determine a length of an event has to surmise at the time prior to the 7th seal being opened. Was John not sure, did not the Spirit give him the specific time? No John could not be sure as time outside this realm is not measured. Though the time was relatively short he knew it was "about" a half hour.

    Rev 20:8
    1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    Now another support is the fact that no one not even Christ himself knows when the when the son of man will come. How is this possible? Well only because the instruments of being able to measure time have vanished, IE the sun, moon and stars.

    Mark 13
    31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
    32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


    Other events contradict the possibility of a literal 1000 years.

    The resurrection of the dead both godly and ungodly occurs on the same day and not 1000+ years apart. Actually the saved are judged also at the GWT
    Are there really two little seasons? We see one in Rev 6 before Christs returns? Are they different or really the same time?
    Are there really two instances whereby an entity comes up from the bottomless pit? We see a beast come up AFTER 3.5 years referenced in Rev 11 and Rev 17. Which beast could this possibly be? The other beasts are already on earth. Also is the pit really like a revolving door? Open and shut, and open and shut again and then opened one last time?
    Does not IS 14 already so Satan in the pit prior to the 2nd coming? Does he go down twice?
    Are there really two great battles which take place whereby the whole world is gathered?. We see the battle of the great day in Rev 16 and another in Rev 20, different or the same?
    Does not the earth burn with unquenchable fire at the presence of the Lord at his return. Does not the sun, moon, stars and old earth roll up as a scroll at the 2nd coming? Thus the old earth passes away and a new earth would replace it. Is the supposed millennium with a new earth?
    Where is there any other support in scripture for a literal 1000 year period after Christ returns?
    Under every argument there is a foundation. If this foundation is correct the argument stands. If the foundation is vain the building on it collapses. Your foundation is that direct statements of Revelation 20 are not true. Let us examine what you deny. But first the reader should be aware of what you propose by defining an "allegory".

    Allegory: "a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one."

    Revelation 20:1-8 reads;

    1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."


    In verse 1 starts with "and" and so joins hat came before. Thus the battle of Revelation 19 is allegorical - that is, it does not really take place but is a story to be interpreted for hidden meaning
    In verse 1 there is no angel, key, chain or bottomless pit - for it does not really take place but is a story to be interpreted for hidden meaning
    In verse 2 there is no Satan, Serpent and/or devil - for they does not really exist but is a story to be interpreted for hidden meaning
    In verse 3 LIKEWISE, all is non-existent and is but a story to be interpreted for hidden meaning
    In verse 4 the folly of your handling of prophecy is manifested. Christ, souls, the Beast, his Mark, his idol, their hands, and reigning with Christ are but a story to be interpreted for hidden meaning ... or, NO?

    Shall I go on with this absurdity?

    You will no doubt answer, "ONLY the thousand years is allegorical!" On what basis? If ALL ELSE is literal, on what authority do you take one word out of a literal prophecy and make it "a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one." SIX TIMES IN SEVEN VERSES IS "THE" THOUSAND YEARS MENTIONED! Allegory - I think not. Will Christ rule after He returns? Will He not rule forever? If so, will there not be the first thousand years of an everlasting Kingdom? Either Christ's return to do battle at Armageddon is "a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one." Or it is fact. Either Christ's reign on earth is forever as Daniel predicted, or it is "a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one." And if the reign of Jesus on earth is forever as the Bible indicates, shall it not have a first thousand years? And if this first thousand years is bracketed by TWO NOTABLE EVENTS, is this so difficult to understand? Before Armageddon Jerusalem has a wall and is beleaguered. Before Magog Jerusalem has no wall and "dwells in safety". At Armageddon Christ and His army slaughter the enemy. At Magog God slaughters the enemy. At Armageddon Satan has been cast from heaven. At Magog he has been bound for 1,000 years in shackles in a subterranean abyss and then freed "a short while". At Armageddon spirits like frogs call the the armies of the WORLD to battle. At Magog a Hook draws them from the NORTH to battle. It is obvious from these, and more, that two different battles at two different times are fought.

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    the reader should be aware of what you propose by defining an "allegory".
    Who said I think Rev 20 is total allegory. Let's make sure the reader understands this was your interpretation and add.

    I stated that the one word "1000" is a metaphor just as used in 2 Peter the action remains.

    "a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable."

    So go back and reread my post correctly.

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Who said I think Rev 20 is total allegory. Let's make sure the reader understands this was your interpretation and add.

    I stated that the one word "1000" is a metaphor just as used in 2 Peter the action remains.

    "a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable."

    So go back and reread my post correctly.
    Exactly. You have taken the bulk of the Chapter as literal, but this ONE WORD you takes as a "metaphor". On what basis?

    And then you went further than a metaphor. You set about explaining a hidden meaning. That is allegory. But you brought not a single bit of proof. The contrary is shown to be the case. One thousand is an exact number. When John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wanted to show an UNCOUNTABLE number he said so.

    "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." (Revelation 7:9).

    So my question remains: On what basis to you take everything literally but this one word that is mentioned SIX times in seven verses and is made specific by the article before it THREE TIMES?

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    Re: Hooks In Their Jaws: God Brings Gog And Magog To The Mid-East

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    One thousand is an exact number.
    Is 1000 an exact number here?

    But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    So my question remains: On what basis to you take everything literally but this one word that is mentioned SIX times in seven verses and is made specific by the article before it THREE TIMES?

    So why is the number "1000" a metaphor and does not actually mean specifically 1000 years?

    John is trying to quantify a measure of time which is unmeasurable. Now why is it unmeasurable? Well outside this realm wherein the sun, moon, and stars gives us the ability to measure time there is are no instruments to measure time outside this realm. Thus John when speaking of how long Satan is in the pit uses the number 1000.

    Why does John use 1000? Why not 100 or 1 million?

    Well the number 1000 was used in scripture for the same purpose as a metaphor thus the Spirit has John use the same number for consistency. Both instances are used as a metaphor and not a literal 1000 years.

    Peter 2
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    Are there any other scriptures which may show timelessness outside this realm which would support the need to use a metaphor?

    Yes. John himself in trying to determine a length of an event has to surmise at the time prior to the 7th seal being opened. Was John not sure, did not the Spirit give him the specific time? No John could not be sure as time outside this realm is not measured. Though the time was relatively short he knew it was "about" a half hour.

    Rev 20:8
    1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    Other events contradict the possibility of a literal 1000 years.

    The resurrection of the dead both godly and ungodly occurs on the same day and not 1000+ years apart. Actually the saved are judged also at the GWT

    Are there really two little seasons? We see one in Rev 6 before Christs returns? Are they different or really the same time?

    Are there really two instances whereby an entity comes up from the bottomless pit? We see a beast come up AFTER 3.5 years referenced in Rev 11 and Rev 17. Which beast could this possibly be? The other beasts are already on earth. Also is the pit really like a revolving door? Open and shut, and open and shut again and then opened one last time?

    Does not IS 14 already so Satan in the pit prior to the 2nd coming? Does he go down twice?

    Are there really two great battles which take place whereby the whole world is gathered?. We see the battle of the great day in Rev 16 and another in Rev 20, different or the same?

    Does not the earth burn with unquenchable fire at the presence of the Lord at his return. Does not the sun, moon, stars and old earth roll up as a scroll at the 2nd coming? Thus the old earth passes away and a new earth would replace it. Is the supposed millennium with a new earth?

    When one looks at all the events in rev 20:1-9 they have already occurred before Christ returned.


    Satan will yet be thrown into the pit for a specific time. John uses 1000 years metaphorically as he cannot determine the length of time as time is not measured outside this realm. Satan is thrown into the pit in Rev 12 and is the beast which comes up from the pit Rev 17. Again the 1000 years is a metaphor.

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