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Thread: The Destruction of this Planet

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    The Destruction of this Planet

    The Destruction Of This Planet. Not going to happen:

    But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
    Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the Day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 2 Peter 3:10-12

    In this prophecy, it seems that there is coming a day when God is going to destroy the Earth by fire. But is that what is really meant here? Many think these three verses say that God will totally destroy the world.
    If God is going to destroy the Earth, then it really doesn’t matter what we do with the natural resources of the planet. And if we use up a resource that causes a plant or animal species to go extinct, who cares if God is going to remove the whole planet anyway and take us to heaven, right? Well, let’s look into this:
    If it can be shown that Peter is not prophesying the literal destruction of the Earth here, then it abrogates any theological argument that God will one day actually eliminate this world, whether by fire or any other means.

    N.T. Wright gives this commentary regarding the passage in question from 2 Peter:
    ‘Here, at the end of this passage, we have a statement which in older translations of the Bible came out one way, but which, with all the biblical manuscripts we now have, certainly should be changed. In the older versions, this passage ends with the warning that ‘the earth and all the works on it will be burned up.’ A cosmic destruction: the end of the physical world! Is that really what Peter wrote?
    In some of the best manuscripts of the New Testament, including two of the very best, the word for ‘will be burned up’ isn’t there. Instead, there is a Greek word which means ‘will be found’, or ‘will be discovered’, or ‘will be disclosed’. Perhaps ‘will be found out’ would be a better way of getting at the truth of the meaning.
    What I believe has happened is this: Several early scribes, faced with ‘will be found’, thought to themselves, ‘That can’t be right! It makes no sense! Surely he meant “will be burnt up”. And so the translators put in their opinion’.

    And look at the difference it makes! In conformity with the rest of the New Testament, Peter is not saying that the present world of space, time and matter is going to be burnt up and destroyed. The REBible says: .....brought to judgment.
    What will happen, as many early Christian teachers said, is that actual literal fire will come upon the whole earth, as so comprehensively prophesied throughout the Bible, not to totally destroy, but to test everything out and to purify it by burning up the Lord’s enemies, Malachi 4:3, and to test His people; 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 The earth will remain forever; Eccl 1:4, Ephesians 3:21, Psalms 78:69, Isaiah 45:18
    Peter’s concern throughout the letter is with the judgment of humans for what they have done, not with the rest of Creation, although it seems that much will be dramatically changed on the forthcoming great and terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery vengeance and wrath and the world will never be the same again. Zephaniah 3:8

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Destruction Of This Planet. Not going to happen:

    But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
    Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the Day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 2 Peter 3:10-12

    In this prophecy, it seems that there is coming a day when God is going to destroy the Earth by fire. But is that what is really meant here? Many think these three verses say that God will totally destroy the world.
    If God is going to destroy the Earth, then it really doesn’t matter what we do with the natural resources of the planet. And if we use up a resource that causes a plant or animal species to go extinct, who cares if God is going to remove the whole planet anyway and take us to heaven, right? Well, let’s look into this:
    If it can be shown that Peter is not prophesying the literal destruction of the Earth here, then it abrogates any theological argument that God will one day actually eliminate this world, whether by fire or any other means.

    N.T. Wright gives this commentary regarding the passage in question from 2 Peter:
    ‘Here, at the end of this passage, we have a statement which in older translations of the Bible came out one way, but which, with all the biblical manuscripts we now have, certainly should be changed. In the older versions, this passage ends with the warning that ‘the earth and all the works on it will be burned up.’ A cosmic destruction: the end of the physical world! Is that really what Peter wrote?
    In some of the best manuscripts of the New Testament, including two of the very best, the word for ‘will be burned up’ isn’t there. Instead, there is a Greek word which means ‘will be found’, or ‘will be discovered’, or ‘will be disclosed’. Perhaps ‘will be found out’ would be a better way of getting at the truth of the meaning.
    What I believe has happened is this: Several early scribes, faced with ‘will be found’, thought to themselves, ‘That can’t be right! It makes no sense! Surely he meant “will be burnt up”. And so the translators put in their opinion’.

    And look at the difference it makes! In conformity with the rest of the New Testament, Peter is not saying that the present world of space, time and matter is going to be burnt up and destroyed. The REBible says: .....brought to judgment.
    What will happen, as many early Christian teachers said, is that actual literal fire will come upon the whole earth, as so comprehensively prophesied throughout the Bible, not to totally destroy, but to test everything out and to purify it by burning up the Lord’s enemies, Malachi 4:3, and to test His people; 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 The earth will remain forever; Eccl 1:4, Ephesians 3:21, Psalms 78:69, Isaiah 45:18
    Peter’s concern throughout the letter is with the judgment of humans for what they have done, not with the rest of Creation, although it seems that much will be dramatically changed on the forthcoming great and terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery vengeance and wrath and the world will never be the same again. Zephaniah 3:8
    It is always a terrible shame when men need to change scripture. What it then says is that God was unable to deliver His Word to previous generations. Much more, should we not turn to the oldest record in the sure knowledge that even Moses recorded the inspired Word properly. Do we need to change these scriptures?

    Psalm 78:69; And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

    Psalm 104:5; Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

    Psalm 119:90; Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.

    1st Chronicles 16:30; Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

    Psalm 93:1; The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

    Psalm 96:10; Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

    And if these seem to clash with 2nd Peter 3:10-12 then is it not that we have not studied the matter carefully enough? For instance the word "dissolve". Is it not a beautiful word for a substance changing its format without disappearing? I have a cup of water and a teaspoon of salt. I "dissolve" the salt in the water? Has anything been added or subtracted? No. Both are still there but the format changed. So we can then easily turn to SCRIPTURE that needs NO change:

    Psalm 102:25-26; Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

    Hebrews 1:10-12; And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

    A "Garment" in Parable is one's works (Rev.19:8, etc). So it the history of the evil works that were perpetrated on earth the shall be consumed. The context of 2nd Peter 3:10 is the world before Adam and the world before Noah - in both cases the world stayed but whatever happened before the two coverings of water is GONE.

    What we need is faithful exegesis, not men who need to change the Bible for their own agendas.

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is always a terrible shame when men need to change scripture. What it then says is that God was unable to deliver His Word to previous generations. Much more, should we not turn to the oldest record in the sure knowledge that even Moses recorded the inspired Word properly. Do we need to change these scriptures?

    Psalm 78:69; And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

    Psalm 104:5; Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

    Psalm 119:90; Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.

    1st Chronicles 16:30; Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

    Psalm 93:1; The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

    Psalm 96:10; Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

    And if these seem to clash with 2nd Peter 3:10-12 then is it not that we have not studied the matter carefully enough? For instance the word "dissolve". Is it not a beautiful word for a substance changing its format without disappearing? I have a cup of water and a teaspoon of salt. I "dissolve" the salt in the water? Has anything been added or subtracted? No. Both are still there but the format changed. So we can then easily turn to SCRIPTURE that needs NO change:

    Psalm 102:25-26; Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

    Hebrews 1:10-12; And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

    A "Garment" in Parable is one's works (Rev.19:8, etc). So it the history of the evil works that were perpetrated on earth the shall be consumed. The context of 2nd Peter 3:10 is the world before Adam and the world before Noah - in both cases the world stayed but whatever happened before the two coverings of water is GONE.

    What we need is faithful exegesis, not men who need to change the Bible for their own agendas.
    Granted all of these scriptures are true but is our definition of earth the same as the Lords definition of earth?

    Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

    9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    Because we clearly have two different trains of thought on this matter..

    II Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
    A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.

    ~ Charles Spurgeon


  4. #4

    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Jesus came to also bring another 7 more days of life on earth (7 thousand years) But Earth broke that covenant and killed Jesus. That changed all that will become of earth to the 6 days, meaning after 6 thousand years God will be finished and rest. Earth default's that of the first covenant. Jesus not for himself but for you gave His life so that earth may not be destroyed sooner then the 6 thousand years.

    25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Jude View Post
    Granted all of these scriptures are true but is our definition of earth the same as the Lords definition of earth?

    Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

    9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    Because we clearly have two different trains of thought on this matter..

    II Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
    I dare say that if the scriptures are true then they mean what they say. But let us study the full text and see what is meant. 2nd Peter 3:3-14 reads;

    3 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
    4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
    7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
    14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."


    The text at hand starts with its purpose - to silence the scoffers. Who are the scoffers? Peter's ministry is to the "circumcision" (Gal.2:7-8). So the accused are Jews who cast doubt on the authenticity of Jesus. At what do they scoff? They scoff at a coming JUDGEMENT. They say; "We can do what we like. God will do nothing. Look! This Man Jesus AND Christians teach the imminent return of the Lord. It is now nearly 40 years since this Man Jesus said He would come in glory and judgement." They are like the Jews of Jeremiah's time. He warned of Nebuchadnezzar. They scoffed and said; "the Lord will never forsake Judah and Jerusalem". How wrong they were!

    So Peter points to THREE UNIVERSAL JUDGMENTS that touched THE EARTH:
    In verse 5 the scoffers were "willingly ignorant". The record for all Jews is in the first Book of Moses - Genesis. The "CREATION" was in good order. God is not the God of confusion. But something happened and Genesis 1:2 literally reads; "But the earth BECAME a tohu bohu ... " That is, something caused a state that God would never CREATE (Isa.45:18). God could not look at the effects of Satan's rebellion and cast the earth into darkness and covered it with water. Today, no-one can says what transpired on the earth before Adam's time. The things that caused so great a judgement are so wiped out that our best archaeologists cannot fathom a single thing. But what is our conclusion in regard to our discussion? It is that IT IS STILL THE SAME EARTH.
    In verse 6 Peter calls the reader to look at God's restoring work in 6 days. That is the world "that THEN was" - Adam's world. And what was its destiny? To be covered with water again. Again, our archaeologists are stunned. There is ample proof that there was a flood. Sea fossils are on Mount Everest and many other high places. But the DOINGS of the civilization that lived then have been wiped out. Only speculation abounds - and legends of lost cities and superior peoples. But evidence? NONE! Again, what is our conclusion for the sake of the discussion? Noah's earth BEFORE the flood IS THE SAME EARTH OF AFTER THE FLOOD - just purged and made pristine.
    In verse 7 Peter makes a clear statement. Noah's earth, as he stepped out of the Ark, with summer and winter and the rainbow, IS THE SAME EARTH as we have now, BUT NOW RESERVED FOR A FUTURE JUDGEMENT. God has given the promise that He will not cover it water again, but He said nothing of not immersing it in FIRE! Water drowned the living, covered the bodies with sediment and washed the earth of proof of evil. Fire burns the living to ashes and purges the earth even of bacteria.
    In verse 8 we have the "DAYS" that Peter talks of. This is important for in verse 12 gives a "day" - the "day of God" - WHEREIN the next "washing" takes place. So when we come to the next "purging of the earth" it is said to happen "IN" the day of the Lord. The "day of the Lord" is generally the period of time that God takes to arrive and change the government of the earth. Some students of the Bible say that it is "a 24-hour-day". But is this reasonable?

    The DAY of the Lord:
    The "DAY" of the Lord contains a number of things. The Lord Jesus leaves heaven, on the way to earth, in the clouds, He meets His Church. Here He judges them at The Bema (Gk.) - the traveling throne (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10). If 2% of men who lived since 30 AD became Christians, and the total of all men who lived since 30 AD is 60 billion (all speculation of course, but it serves to give perspective) then the Lord must judge 1.2 billion Christians. If each take 5 seconds, then the time to Judge His Church will be around 6 billion seconds - without pause. If there are 31.6 million seconds in a year then the judgement of the Church alone will take 190 years. Now, these figures are just to show you that BEFORE He reaches the earth to fight Armageddon, "the DAY of the Lord" is already way more than a 24 hour day. Then comes Jerusalem's liberation, the battle of Armageddon, the battle of Bozrah (Isa.34:6, 63:1) and the judgement of the nations in Matthew 25:31-46. The figures are not important, but they serve to give perspective. What is important is that it is not reasonable, even absurd, to make the "day of the Lord" a single 24 hour period.

    So we are faced with an absurdity or we have to interpret scripture with scripture because we may not interpret scripture privately (2nd Pet.1:20). A study of the "days" of the Bible will give us FIVE DIFFERENT meanings of a "DAY". They are;
    1. A time when the sun is up (Gen.1:5; Jn.11:9, etc.)
    2. A 24-hour solar day from evening to to evening (Gen.1:8, etc.)
    3. A YEAR for a DAY in prophecy (Nu.14:34; Ezek.4:6)
    4. A THOUSAND YEARS (Ps.90:4; 2nd Pet.3:8)
    5. An Event, - the DAY of the Lord - which we now seek the length of.

    It is at once clear which "day" fits our text in 2nd Peter 3 - The "DAY" of the Lord will last MUCH LONGER than a sunny day, a 24-hour period, and even a year. The only one that fits IS RIGHT IN THE CONTEXT IN VERSE 8.

    If this is true, then we can, in the same moment, see that the one thousand years of Christ's reign, where He subdues all things, even death right at the end, then the "DAY of the Lord" encompasses the time from when our Lord leaves heaven to return to earth until the Great White Throne. This is confirmed again by the statements of our Lord Jesus concerning resurrection.
    1. In John 11:24 Lazarus, a Jew, would, ".. rise again in the resurrection AT the last day."
    2. In John 6:39-40, 44, 54 the Believers would be raised AT the last day
    3. In John 12:48 the UN-Believer will be raised IN the last day. According to Revelation 20:5 the unbeliever will only be raised at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ. But this verse says "IN" - that is, it lies WITHIN the 1,000 years.

    And so, we can now see that scripture means that the WHOLE period where our Lord Jesus changes the government of the earth, subdues ALL God's enemies, including DEATH, IS THE "DAY OF THE LORD". And if so, then Peter is absolutely correct to say that heaven and earth would pass IN the LAST DAY. Verse 10 in our text reads; "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

    The heavens and earth that were polluted by Satan and man's rebellion, are "PURGED" at the White Throne (Rev.20:11). And to seal the understanding we have now, the Greek word in "NEW" heaven and "NEW" earth means "TO MAKE PRISTINE". It is still the old earth, but the THIRD and FINAL purging leaves no memory of the old, just like the purgings by water before Adam and at Noah's time, left the earth "pristine".

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    I think that's probably true, particularly since God said He was done with creation by the end of the 6th day. While it's true He said he will create a "new heaven" and a "new earth," this is not likely to be the creation of an entirely new universe, but rather, a reform of it. I find it interesting and probably significant that God will lay the earth bare, rather than "burn it up." A massive fire burns up lots of trees and vegetation, but it doesn't destroy the planet.

    A couple of verses indicate the earth remains forever. That it must be reformed is plain by the reality of sinful humans on the planet, who abuse the world and one another. While I don't think it's critical to maintain every species of creature--indeed it seems impossible--I do think we should use our natural resources in a responsible way. It's been difficult for us to determine the "balance of nature" over many hundreds of years. We may be able to limit how we poison our atmosphere to some degree, but controlling "global warming" may be a bit out of our reach?

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I think that's probably true, particularly since God said He was done with creation by the end of the 6th day. While it's true He said he will create a "new heaven" and a "new earth," this is not likely to be the creation of an entirely new universe, but rather, a reform of it. I find it interesting and probably significant that God will lay the earth bare, rather than "burn it up." A massive fire burns up lots of trees and vegetation, but it doesn't destroy the planet.

    A couple of verses indicate the earth remains forever. That it must be reformed is plain by the reality of sinful humans on the planet, who abuse the world and one another. While I don't think it's critical to maintain every species of creature--indeed it seems impossible--I do think we should use our natural resources in a responsible way. It's been difficult for us to determine the "balance of nature" over many hundreds of years. We may be able to limit how we poison our atmosphere to some degree, but controlling "global warming" may be a bit out of our reach?
    Good reply, Randyk.
    I posted several verses that prove that the earth will remain forever.
    It will be burned over and then regenerated, but only the Middle East area will be totally depopulated, not even the birds and beasts will survive. Hosea 4:3

    There is just no way we can alter our climate, maybe by reducing emissions such as coal smoke in affected areas, but basically the whole 'Global worming' issue is scare tactics, designed to force the 'have' nations to pay the 'have not' nations. All part of the push toward a One World Government.

  8. #8

    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    These verses in Peter remind me of Rev. 6: 13, 14:

    "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

    The sky rolling up like a scroll sounds a lot like Peter's description of the heavens passing away with a great noise. 2 Peter sounds like a description of the Lord's second coming. For example Rev. 19: 11:

    "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

    Everyone who witnesses this event will be convicted of their sin, it will be made plain to everyone. This is why the kings and the great men will try to hide from the Lord (Rev. 6:16).

    Peter's description sounds like a catastrophic event associate with the second coming but not one which will destroy the earth or the universe entirely. I'm not a Greek scholar but some of the translations of 2 Peter look like they may not reflect the true meaning.

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    These verses in Peter remind me of Rev. 6: 13, 14:

    "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

    The sky rolling up like a scroll sounds a lot like Peter's description of the heavens passing away with a great noise. 2 Peter sounds like a description of the Lord's second coming. For example Rev. 19: 11:

    "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

    Everyone who witnesses this event will be convicted of their sin, it will be made plain to everyone. This is why the kings and the great men will try to hide from the Lord (Rev. 6:16).

    Peter's description sounds like a catastrophic event associate with the second coming but not one which will destroy the earth or the universe entirely. I'm not a Greek scholar but some of the translations of 2 Peter look like they may not reflect the true meaning.
    Yes, the next prophesied event will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath The Day that will 'come as a thief', unexpectedly, sudden and shocking everyone.
    It is not the Return of Jesus, but the world changer that will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before that glorious Day. Revelation 19:11-21

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Yes, the next prophesied event will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath The Day that will 'come as a thief', unexpectedly, sudden and shocking everyone.
    It is not the Return of Jesus, but the world changer that will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before that glorious Day. Revelation 19:11-21
    Just a thought. Do thieves come "unexpectedly, suddenly and by shocking everybody"? Or do they come silently and leave with precious things silently without anyone knowing they were even there? And when precious goods are around, does not everyone expect thieves? I noticed that banks and art museums have elaborate protections in place because they expect thieves. Is not the context that the "DAY" starts silently with the removal of something precious, followed by a process of subjugation and ENDS with a fire that purges the earth of its past?

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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Just a thought. Do thieves come "unexpectedly, suddenly and by shocking everybody"? Or do they come silently and leave with precious things silently without anyone knowing they were even there? And when precious goods are around, does not everyone expect thieves? I noticed that banks and art museums have elaborate protections in place because they expect thieves. Is not the context that the "DAY" starts silently with the removal of something precious, followed by a process of subjugation and ENDS with a fire that purges the earth of its past?
    The Great and terrible Day of the Lord is all to do with the destruction of His enemies, nothing about a removal of anybody.

    Isaiah 13:9 The Day of the Lord is coming, a cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to desolation and to destroy all the wicked there.
    1 Samuel 2:10 Those who oppose the Lord will be terrified, when He strikes from the heavens.
    2 Samuel 22:8-16 The earth shakes from the Lord’s burning anger. He comes, with fiery arrows.
    Psalms 11:6 He will rain fiery coals onto the wicked, scorching winds will strike them.
    Psalms 18:13 The Lord thunders from the heavens amid a hail of glowing coals.
    Psalm 21:9 The anger of the Lord will engulf His enemies in a fiery furnace, it will consume them.
    Psalms 79:5-6 Pour out Your wrath on godless nations. Your fury will blaze like fire.
    Psalms 97:2-5 Cloud enfolds Him, fire goes ahead and consumes His enemies.
    Psalm 144:5-6 Part the heavens and come down, make smoke and send Your arrows far and wide.
    Isaiah 2:12&21 The Lord has a Day of doom for the ungodly. He will arise and strike with terror.
    Isaiah 4:4b The Lord will cleanse Jerusalem, with His judgement burning like fire.
    Isaiah 9:18-19 Wicked people will burn, the land scorched and the people fuel for the fire.
    Isaiah 10:17 The Light of Israel will become a fire, in one Day it will burn up His enemies.
    Isaiah 13:6 Wail, for the Day of the Lord is at hand, devastation from the Almighty.
    Isaiah 21:1 A Day of storms, sweeping through the wilderness, from a land of terror.
    Isaiah 22:5 For the Lord has ordained a Day of tumult, a Day of woe and disaster in the world.
    Isaiah 24:1 Beware, the Lord is about to strip the earth and scatter its inhabitants.
    Isaiah 26:21 The Lord is coming from His dwelling place to punish peoples for their sins.
    Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise and storm with rage, destruction is decreed upon the earth.
    Isaiah 30:26a The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength on that Day.
    Isaiah 34:2-4 The Lord’s anger is against all the nations, they are given over to slaughter. The sky will be rolled up like a scroll and their host [satellites] will fall like ripe figs.
    Isaiah 42:13-15 The Lord will go forth like a warrior, He will lay waste to the earth.
    Isaiah 51:6...the sky will be dispersed like smoke and the people will die like flies.
    Isaiah 54:16 It was I who created the destroyer- with coals of fire, to deal out havoc.
    Isaiah 63:4-6 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, I shattered nations in My fury.
    Isaiah 64:1-2 When You tear apart the heavens, fire blazes and water boils.
    Isaiah 66:15 The Lord will judge with fire, testing all mankind and many will be slain by Him.
    Jeremiah 4:7 The Destroyer of nations has risen from His lair, cities will be waste and empty.
    Jeremiah 9:21-22 Death has come to our towns, corpses lie like dung in the streets.
    Jeremiah 12:14 I shall uproot the evil neighbours from My peoples Land, Judah too I will uproot.
    Jeremiah 25:30-31 The Lord roars from on high, heard everywhere – the godless peoples will die.
    Jeremiah 30:23 See what a scorching wind goes out, it whirls around the heads of the wicked.
    Ezekiel 20:47 I am about to light a fire, it’s fiery flame will not be put out.
    Ezekiel 21:3 & 28 I shall draw My sword of judgement and kill the righteous and wicked alike from the Negev northward. A sword drawn for slaughter, flashing like lightning.
    Ezekiel 22:20As metal is melted in the crucible, so I shall gather you in My anger and refine you
    Ezekiel 30:3-8 A Day is near, the Day of the Lord, a Day of doom and reckoning for the nations.
    Hosea 8:14 Israel and Judah have forgotten their Maker, I shall send fire to burn their cities.
    Hosea 9:7 The Day of punishment and wrath has come. Because of your guilt no one can see it.
    Hosea 10:14 The tumult of disaster will rise against peoples, fortresses will be overthrown.
    Joel 1:15 The Day is near, it comes – a mighty destruction from the Lord.
    Joel 2:11 The Lord thunders as he leads the host. Great and terrible is the Day, who can endure it?
    Amos 1:1-15 I shall send fire on Damascus, Gaza, Tyre, Edom and Ammon.
    Amos 2:1-16 I shall send fire on Moab and Judah. Of Israel- their bravest warriors will flee.
    Amos 5:17 There will be wailing in every vineyard, for I shall pass through your midst.
    Amos 8:2-3 On that Day, I shall judge Israel, so many corpses laying everywhere.
    Amos 8:8-9 On that Day, the sun will darken at noon and the earth will quake like ocean waves.
    Obadiah 15 The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the peoples, their deeds will recoil on them.
    Micah 1:3-4 Even now, the Lord is leaving His dwelling place, He comes down with fire.
    Micah 4:11-12 Now, many nations are massed against Zion, they are gathered for the threshing.
    Micah 5:10-11 On that Day, I will destroy your military and devastate your cities.
    Nahum 1:1-3 The Lord is a God of vengeance, He will not let the guilty escape punishment.
    Zephaniah 1:3 I shall destroy humans and animals, I shall bring the godless to their knees.
    Zephaniah 2:2 Seek the Lord, seek righteousness, it may be you will be sheltered on that Day.
    Zephaniah 3:8 Wait for the Day, when I stand up and accuse the nations and pour out My burning anger upon the whole world.
    Haggai 2:6 & 22 In a little while, I shall shake the heavens and the earth, I will break the power of the heathen realms.
    Zechariah 9:14 The Lord will appear over them, His arrows will flash, with trumpet and storms.
    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the godless will be as stubble, set ablaze.
    Luke 21 :25-26 Signs will appear in the sky. People will stand helpless in fear of what is coming.
    Hebrews 10:27 For the godless, there is only the terrifying expectation of judgement, of a fierce fire that will consume the Lord’s enemies.
    2 Peter 3:10 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. On that Day, the heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound, the elements dissolved in flames and the earth with all that is in it will be brought to judgement.
    Revelation 6:12-14 The Lamb broke the sixth seal. There was a violent earthquake, the sun turned black, the stars [satellites] fell to the earth like ripe figs, the sky rolled up like a scroll and every mountain and island was dislodged from its place.
    Ref: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

    These 72 Bible verses are most of those which describe the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. They are quite different and separate from what happens at the Day of the Sovereign Lord, Revelation 16:4, that is at the return of Jesus. It is obvious that this terrible Day is before the Return, as ‘He will arise, He comes down, dense cloud enfolds Him’, etc. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:7-12 It is not and cannot be a manmade event, such as a nuclear exchange, that would not cause all the effects described and would leave radiation pollution in the Land.
    This Day is the means whereby the Lord judges the nations, not individuals, as at the Great White Throne, much later and it is mainly those nations and entities that commence an attack upon the State of Israel. It is the fulfilment of Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11-12.
    All of the Land promised to the Patriarchs will be cleansed and depopulated, excepting for a protected remnant of Jews in Jerusalem. Isaiah 4:5, Isaiah 37:31-32, Daniel 12:1
    This event will allow the second Exodus to take place – all those whom the Lord will call – His people, those righteous ones who love and obey Him: every born again Christian, will travel to the new country of Beulah, to live there in peace, security and great prosperity.
    Ezekiel 36, Jeremiah 30, Romans 9:24-26
    ‘Many’ of them will agree to a seven year peace treaty with the World leader, but he will break it by coming to Jerusalem and enthroning himself in the Temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
    Half of the Christians, those who did not agree to the treaty, will be taken to a place of safety for 3˝ years – the duration of the Great Tribulation. Then the Lord Jesus Returns, to reign for 1000 years.

  12. #12
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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Great and terrible Day of the Lord is all to do with the destruction of His enemies, nothing about a removal of anybody.

    Isaiah 13:9 The Day of the Lord is coming, a cruel Day of wrath and fierce anger, to reduce the earth to desolation and to destroy all the wicked there.
    1 Samuel 2:10 Those who oppose the Lord will be terrified, when He strikes from the heavens.
    2 Samuel 22:8-16 The earth shakes from the Lord’s burning anger. He comes, with fiery arrows.
    Psalms 11:6 He will rain fiery coals onto the wicked, scorching winds will strike them.
    Psalms 18:13 The Lord thunders from the heavens amid a hail of glowing coals.
    Psalm 21:9 The anger of the Lord will engulf His enemies in a fiery furnace, it will consume them.
    Psalms 79:5-6 Pour out Your wrath on godless nations. Your fury will blaze like fire.
    Psalms 97:2-5 Cloud enfolds Him, fire goes ahead and consumes His enemies.
    Psalm 144:5-6 Part the heavens and come down, make smoke and send Your arrows far and wide.
    Isaiah 2:12&21 The Lord has a Day of doom for the ungodly. He will arise and strike with terror.
    Isaiah 4:4b The Lord will cleanse Jerusalem, with His judgement burning like fire.
    Isaiah 9:18-19 Wicked people will burn, the land scorched and the people fuel for the fire.
    Isaiah 10:17 The Light of Israel will become a fire, in one Day it will burn up His enemies.
    Isaiah 13:6 Wail, for the Day of the Lord is at hand, devastation from the Almighty.
    Isaiah 21:1 A Day of storms, sweeping through the wilderness, from a land of terror.
    Isaiah 22:5 For the Lord has ordained a Day of tumult, a Day of woe and disaster in the world.
    Isaiah 24:1 Beware, the Lord is about to strip the earth and scatter its inhabitants.
    Isaiah 26:21 The Lord is coming from His dwelling place to punish peoples for their sins.
    Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise and storm with rage, destruction is decreed upon the earth.
    Isaiah 30:26a The sun will shine with seven times its normal strength on that Day.
    Isaiah 34:2-4 The Lord’s anger is against all the nations, they are given over to slaughter. The sky will be rolled up like a scroll and their host [satellites] will fall like ripe figs.
    Isaiah 42:13-15 The Lord will go forth like a warrior, He will lay waste to the earth.
    Isaiah 51:6...the sky will be dispersed like smoke and the people will die like flies.
    Isaiah 54:16 It was I who created the destroyer- with coals of fire, to deal out havoc.
    Isaiah 63:4-6 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, I shattered nations in My fury.
    Isaiah 64:1-2 When You tear apart the heavens, fire blazes and water boils.
    Isaiah 66:15 The Lord will judge with fire, testing all mankind and many will be slain by Him.
    Jeremiah 4:7 The Destroyer of nations has risen from His lair, cities will be waste and empty.
    Jeremiah 9:21-22 Death has come to our towns, corpses lie like dung in the streets.
    Jeremiah 12:14 I shall uproot the evil neighbours from My peoples Land, Judah too I will uproot.
    Jeremiah 25:30-31 The Lord roars from on high, heard everywhere – the godless peoples will die.
    Jeremiah 30:23 See what a scorching wind goes out, it whirls around the heads of the wicked.
    Ezekiel 20:47 I am about to light a fire, it’s fiery flame will not be put out.
    Ezekiel 21:3 & 28 I shall draw My sword of judgement and kill the righteous and wicked alike from the Negev northward. A sword drawn for slaughter, flashing like lightning.
    Ezekiel 22:20As metal is melted in the crucible, so I shall gather you in My anger and refine you
    Ezekiel 30:3-8 A Day is near, the Day of the Lord, a Day of doom and reckoning for the nations.
    Hosea 8:14 Israel and Judah have forgotten their Maker, I shall send fire to burn their cities.
    Hosea 9:7 The Day of punishment and wrath has come. Because of your guilt no one can see it.
    Hosea 10:14 The tumult of disaster will rise against peoples, fortresses will be overthrown.
    Joel 1:15 The Day is near, it comes – a mighty destruction from the Lord.
    Joel 2:11 The Lord thunders as he leads the host. Great and terrible is the Day, who can endure it?
    Amos 1:1-15 I shall send fire on Damascus, Gaza, Tyre, Edom and Ammon.
    Amos 2:1-16 I shall send fire on Moab and Judah. Of Israel- their bravest warriors will flee.
    Amos 5:17 There will be wailing in every vineyard, for I shall pass through your midst.
    Amos 8:2-3 On that Day, I shall judge Israel, so many corpses laying everywhere.
    Amos 8:8-9 On that Day, the sun will darken at noon and the earth will quake like ocean waves.
    Obadiah 15 The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the peoples, their deeds will recoil on them.
    Micah 1:3-4 Even now, the Lord is leaving His dwelling place, He comes down with fire.
    Micah 4:11-12 Now, many nations are massed against Zion, they are gathered for the threshing.
    Micah 5:10-11 On that Day, I will destroy your military and devastate your cities.
    Nahum 1:1-3 The Lord is a God of vengeance, He will not let the guilty escape punishment.
    Zephaniah 1:3 I shall destroy humans and animals, I shall bring the godless to their knees.
    Zephaniah 2:2 Seek the Lord, seek righteousness, it may be you will be sheltered on that Day.
    Zephaniah 3:8 Wait for the Day, when I stand up and accuse the nations and pour out My burning anger upon the whole world.
    Haggai 2:6 & 22 In a little while, I shall shake the heavens and the earth, I will break the power of the heathen realms.
    Zechariah 9:14 The Lord will appear over them, His arrows will flash, with trumpet and storms.
    Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the godless will be as stubble, set ablaze.
    Luke 21 :25-26 Signs will appear in the sky. People will stand helpless in fear of what is coming.
    Hebrews 10:27 For the godless, there is only the terrifying expectation of judgement, of a fierce fire that will consume the Lord’s enemies.
    2 Peter 3:10 The Day of the Lord will come unexpectedly. On that Day, the heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound, the elements dissolved in flames and the earth with all that is in it will be brought to judgement.
    Revelation 6:12-14 The Lamb broke the sixth seal. There was a violent earthquake, the sun turned black, the stars [satellites] fell to the earth like ripe figs, the sky rolled up like a scroll and every mountain and island was dislodged from its place.
    Ref: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

    These 72 Bible verses are most of those which describe the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. They are quite different and separate from what happens at the Day of the Sovereign Lord, Revelation 16:4, that is at the return of Jesus. It is obvious that this terrible Day is before the Return, as ‘He will arise, He comes down, dense cloud enfolds Him’, etc. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:7-12 It is not and cannot be a manmade event, such as a nuclear exchange, that would not cause all the effects described and would leave radiation pollution in the Land.
    This Day is the means whereby the Lord judges the nations, not individuals, as at the Great White Throne, much later and it is mainly those nations and entities that commence an attack upon the State of Israel. It is the fulfilment of Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11-12.
    All of the Land promised to the Patriarchs will be cleansed and depopulated, excepting for a protected remnant of Jews in Jerusalem. Isaiah 4:5, Isaiah 37:31-32, Daniel 12:1
    This event will allow the second Exodus to take place – all those whom the Lord will call – His people, those righteous ones who love and obey Him: every born again Christian, will travel to the new country of Beulah, to live there in peace, security and great prosperity.
    Ezekiel 36, Jeremiah 30, Romans 9:24-26
    ‘Many’ of them will agree to a seven year peace treaty with the World leader, but he will break it by coming to Jerusalem and enthroning himself in the Temple. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
    Half of the Christians, those who did not agree to the treaty, will be taken to a place of safety for 3˝ years – the duration of the Great Tribulation. Then the Lord Jesus Returns, to reign for 1000 years.
    If the Bible says that that Day comes as a thief, then it means that it comes like a thief. Your scriptures all show the opposite - a loud, frightening, destructive event that is impossible to miss - the exact opposite of a thief, and the exact opposite of what the verse wants to convey. You are singularly one-sided. Am I to take it then that you must IGNORE the other verses? In 72 verses you were unable to explain the behavior of a thief. But I will tell you why. Because you take the bulk of your scriptures from the Old Testament. Is Israel warned to watch out in case a thief comes? No. They have the prophets who continuously warned them of destruction - a fact you have just shown. But what of the Church? It is not revealed in the Old Testament. Not a single Old Testament verse you gave applies to the Church. THESE apply to the Church;
    • Matthew 24:43; "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up." The implication is that the "Goodman" of the House DIDN'T KNOW the time, and the House WAS BROKEN UP! Since the Lord Jesus was addressing His disciples the "House" must be the Church. How then is the Church broken up? By some being taken and some left! That is the context.
    • Luke 12:39; "And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through." Luke echoes Matthew. No comment is needed.
    • 1st Thessalonians 5:2; "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." Who are the "yourselves"? Christians of course. That is who the letter is written to. What is the context? RAPTURE!
    • 1st Thessalonians 5:4; "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief." Is this scripture not condemning to you. A Christian who waits for the loud noisy destruction in daylight is "in darkness". The Christian who is ready for the stealthy silent Thief quietly searching the House for precious goods like Overcomers and diligent and faithful self-denying Christians will be "stolen".
    • 2nd Peter 3:10; "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." Here, the thief comes first. It sneaks up on the Christian. Some are "stolen" if they are precious. The "day" is "AS a thousand years" (v.8). The thief comes at the BEGINNING of the day. The Hebrew day starts with the onset of darkness - perfect for hiding a thief. The passing of the earth is only at the end of the "thousand-year-DAY" (Rev.20)
    • Revelation 3:3; "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." This speaks for itself. It addresses Christians!
    • Revelation 16:15; "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." And here we have it. The watchful are not caught naked. Does this not perturb you? You IGNORE the scriptures about the thief. Are you ready to be caught naked and be shamed? Have you ever asked yourself why this verse says that "they" will see your nakedness? If you are raptured to the clouds NOBODY sees you? You have to left behind to be seen! Have you ever asked yourself why this verse is placed where it is? It seems, at first reading to be totally out of place. The setting is the close of the Great Tribulation. Kings are being seduced to gather at Armageddon. What has this to do with a "thief"?

    The answer lies in Revelation 1:1! "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly (suddenly - "en-tachos") come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John." This seemingly out of place verse addresses HIS SERVANTS. What does it say? It says that if you miss the thief you will see the preparations for Armageddon. That means "your nakedness and shame" is caused by you being there. The one who meets the thief must GO with the thief. He is "TAKEN". The Greek is "paralambano" - to take an intimate companion with". The Thief is our Lord Jesus. He comes for what is precious in the "House" (of the living God). The House is broken up because some are "taken as intimate companions" and some are "left" because they missed the Thief. And to be "LEFT" declares to your SHAME that you were not precious. They Thief thought you NOT WORTHY and NOT WORTH TAKING as an intimate companion.

  13. #13
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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    coming as a thief, is understood as something unexpected and unprepared for.
    The Day of the Lord's fiery wrath will be just like that most people, obviously including you.

    I looked up 'parlambarno'; Strongs G3880. It is somewhat ambiguous, but for sure it does NOT mean removed to heaven, as you try to make it.
    Your attempts to put shame on me, are pathetic and just go to show how far you have gone in your attempts to support your unscriptural beliefs.

  14. #14
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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    coming as a thief, is understood as something unexpected and unprepared for.
    The Day of the Lord's fiery wrath will be just like that most people, obviously including you.
    What you should have noted is that 1 Thess 5:1 - 4 highlight that it is like a thief for those who walk in darkness, but NOT for those who walk in the light.
    When the Day comes they will KNOW they have been robbed (as it were), they simply don;t recognise the signs beforehand (the shifty individuals casing the place beforehand - stretching the analogy).

  15. #15
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    Re: The Destruction of this Planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    coming as a thief, is understood as something unexpected and unprepared for.
    The Day of the Lord's fiery wrath will be just like that most people, obviously including you.

    I looked up 'parlambarno'; Strongs G3880. It is somewhat ambiguous, but for sure it does NOT mean removed to heaven, as you try to make it.
    Your attempts to put shame on me, are pathetic and just go to show how far you have gone in your attempts to support your unscriptural beliefs.
    My grammar was not correct. The last sentences should have read;

    "The House is broken up because some are "taken as intimate companions" and some are "left" because they missed the Thief. And to be "LEFT" declares to THEIR SHAME that THEY were not precious. They Thief thought THEM NOT WORTHY and NOT WORTH TAKING as an intimate companion."

    I apologize unreservedly for this lapse and the following misunderstanding. At no time did I mean you. How could I? I am not allowed to judge. Mea Culpa.

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