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Thread: Hate

  1. #1

    Hate

    I know over the years there has been a lot of talk about this. My question is rather difficult to answer but here it is:

    When searching the hate (including all forms such as hates and hated) I come up with different number results from different versions of the Bible, ie. New American Standard, King James and so on. I expected the numbers to vary but not in the range of double-digits. The reason I didn't expect such a big margin is because the word hate is very difficult to debate. It's pretty clear how the Bible defines hate as well as how people define it. In other words, hate doesn't have a "grey" area...I think we can all agree that even if there is a fine line between love and hate, there is still a line; a difference.

    So when I searched "hate," the N.I.V. version has 127 results. But the N.A.S.B. version has 163 results...and I checked to make sure all tenses of the word were included. I haven't cross-referenced yet to see the differences. But with that many more versions of hate, can someone tell me why one version included that many more/less depending on your point of view? Having just a few like 5 would be confusing. But having 36 seems like a big margin to have with a such a strong word.

  2. #2

    Re: Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamdweller View Post
    So when I searched "hate," the N.I.V. version has 127 results. But the N.A.S.B. version has 163 results...
    But for "detest," the NIV has 130 uses, and the NASB only 42.

    There are many English words with a similar meaning to "hate," and some translators might disagree on how the Hebrew or Greek words are best rendered in English. There is actually a grey area between "hate," "detest," "loathe", "despise," and similar English words.

    For a concrete example, see Revelation 18:2, which uses a perfect passive participle of the verb μισέω (G3404, "to hate"):

    NASB: And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.

    NIV: With a mighty voice he shouted: “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’ She has become a dwelling for demons and a haunt for every impure spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

    CSB: He called out in a mighty voice: It has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen! She has become a home for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, and a haunt for every unclean and despicable beast.

    ESV: And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.

    KJV: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

    Side issue: there is also a translation difference here on whether the hateful/despicable/detestable adjective applies to the birds, or to other creatures with them. That's because a Greek adjective can also work as a noun, with the word "things" implied. Modern translations are also influenced by Jeremiah 50:39 etc.

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    Re: Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamdweller View Post
    I know over the years there has been a lot of talk about this. My question is rather difficult to answer but here it is:

    When searching the hate (including all forms such as hates and hated) I come up with different number results from different versions of the Bible, ie. New American Standard, King James and so on. I expected the numbers to vary but not in the range of double-digits. The reason I didn't expect such a big margin is because the word hate is very difficult to debate. It's pretty clear how the Bible defines hate as well as how people define it. In other words, hate doesn't have a "grey" area...I think we can all agree that even if there is a fine line between love and hate, there is still a line; a difference.

    So when I searched "hate," the N.I.V. version has 127 results. But the N.A.S.B. version has 163 results...and I checked to make sure all tenses of the word were included. I haven't cross-referenced yet to see the differences. But with that many more versions of hate, can someone tell me why one version included that many more/less depending on your point of view? Having just a few like 5 would be confusing. But having 36 seems like a big margin to have with a such a strong word.
    That is what I would do . At least it works for me .

  4. #4

    Re: Hate

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    But for "detest," the NIV has 130 uses, and the NASB only 42.

    There are many English words with a similar meaning to "hate," and some translators might disagree on how the Hebrew or Greek words are best rendered in English. There is actually a grey area between "hate," "detest," "loathe", "despise," and similar English words.

    For a concrete example, see Revelation 18:2, which uses a perfect passive participle of the verb μισέω (G3404, "to hate"):

    NASB: And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.

    NIV: With a mighty voice he shouted: “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’ She has become a dwelling for demons and a haunt for every impure spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

    CSB: He called out in a mighty voice: It has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen! She has become a home for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, and a haunt for every unclean and despicable beast.

    ESV: And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.

    KJV: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

    Side issue: there is also a translation difference here on whether the hateful/despicable/detestable adjective applies to the birds, or to other creatures with them. That's because a Greek adjective can also work as a noun, with the word "things" implied. Modern translations are also influenced by Jeremiah 50:39 etc.
    Thanks for the reply. If there is one thing I learned over the years of studying the Bible it is that there are so many differences between our languages (English in my example) and what they represent. With the hate and grey I mentioned...I could have been more descriptive. I suppose a better way of saying it would be if you were to say you "liked" someone. Like covers a pretty big area...basically you can like a little or a lot; no way to know. But if you say you hate someone, then there is no grey area. So you can't hate someone or "detest," "loathe", "despise" a little bit. It's always "a lot"--or say that these words all make up the worst of how to feel about another person.

    One of the other reasons I bring up hate is because it fits perfectly with the Westboro Baptist Church. They always mention how "God hates...." this and that. Yet every time I look up the verses they use, it always talks about how God hated how someone acted. It even says that God cannot hate His own creation. He doesn't even hate Lucifer, He hates Satan or you could say, what became of Lucifer. I'm not surprised they used hate as their weapon. It's Satan's perfect weapon to use on us. They just took note and used it to spread their message.

    In my opinion Satan doesn't care about how many people worship or do things in his name. Satan hates God the most. He can't challenge God in a confrontation. But he can hurt Him by turning His own creation against Him. It's pretty much how any enemy would attack with no other options.

    So now you see why I'm so focused on this one word. It holds quite a bit of power and is seldomly used for anything good.

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