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Thread: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

  1. #106
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    They are excluded from ever entering God presence found in the NJ.
    What if they wash their robes?

    I will agree that the tree of Life is mentioned in Ezekiel 47
    So is Ezekiel 47 DURING the MK or not?

    No, you're still not presenting problems for my position. My position is that death still exist during the MK in Jerusalem and in the world, but that in the NHNE death does not exisit in the NJ or in the World basically NO Death at all. The last enemy Jesus defeats is death so this must happen at the End of the MK then he returns the Kingdom of God to the father and God is All in All (1 Cor 15:24-28) so once more my position is that Isaiah 65:20 applies to the City during the MK not the NJ. Also i still don't get how the above helps your position that there is No death in Jersulem but death in the world.
    OK. So what you are arguing is that the NHNE in Isaiah is NOT the NHNE in Revelation?
    So you are arguing for TWO NHNEs.
    OK.
    Yes at the GWToJ is death final given the boot.

    We disagree about the temple during the MK you believe it is the Lamb and Godhead in the NJ, but i believe that the temple during the MK is *Christ + Church* (Ephesians 2:21).
    No, the temple is the Throne of God. We are pillars in His temple in a figurative sense, just as He is figuratively the temple in the NJ in that there is nothing between Him and us, we have no need for priests for we are a royal priesthood.
    Ephesians 2 is a figurative used using the reality of a real temple. We don;t literally become a temple, the same in Rev 3.

  2. #107
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    What if they wash their robes?
    Then they can enter by the Gates


    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    So is Ezekiel 47 DURING the MK or not?
    I'm not sure, Ezekiel 40-48 is a weak point of mine.


    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    OK. So what you are arguing is that the NHNE in Isaiah is NOT the NHNE in Revelation?
    So you are arguing for TWO NHNEs.
    OK.
    Nope none of the above are my arguments once more i believe everything stated from Isaiah 65:19- Isaiah 66:22 is NOT speaking about events during the NHNE. IOW the only things mentioned about the NHNE to me in those passages is Isaiah 65:18 & Isaiah 66:22 and those passages do indeed refer to the same thing as Rev 21-22.
    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Yes at the GWToJ is death final given the boot.
    But you believe the Godhead is on Earth with Jesus during this time(His period of Rule for 1k Years called the MK) in the NJ just not in a position of Rulership correct?


    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    No, the temple is the Throne of God. We are pillars in His temple in a figurative sense, just as He is figuratively the temple in the NJ in that there is nothing between Him and us, we have no need for priests for we are a royal priesthood.
    Ephesians 2 is a figurative used using the reality of a real temple. We don't literally become a temple, the same in Rev 3.
    I disagree i believe we literally become the temple on Earth during the MK.

  3. #108
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm not sure whether you mean Ezek 40:48 or Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48?
    Ezekiel Chapter 40 through Ezekiel Chapter 48. (the last 8 chapters of the book)

  4. #109
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    No the LoF is NOT without the city.
    I know some take Isaiah 66 as being the LoF and this speaks of a place outside the city, so I do get why some people think that.
    However the point here is that this speaks of WHEN there is a city to be outside of, which therefore speaks of during the MK.

    Verse 6 - 12 speaks of what IS with verse 11 speaking of continuing UNTIL He comes, which is verse 12, which then leads to verse 13 speaking of who He is, and verse 14 speaking of the reward which He will bring which therefore speaks of the MK, which verse 15 also speaks of.
    Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
    24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

    Verse 22 appears to establish that the timing in verse 23 and 24 involve the NHNE. In verse 24, why can't that be meaning the LOF? Obviously this scene would not be taking place inside the NJ, but would be taking place outside of it.

    I have asked myself as to why verse 24 occurs during the NHNE? The only thing I can think of, satan would be bound at this point in the bottomless pit since the timing apears to be sometime soon after the 2nd coming. This serves as a warning to these that go forth in verse 24, transgress against Me, this will be your fate as well. So I take these looking upon these things to be the mortals living outside of the NJ. And if we consider Isaiah 60:12, the timing of that is during the NHNE as well, which then to me helps to further explain satan being loosed after the thousand years and the unsuccessful attempt to try and overthrow Christ and His saints ruling the earth at the time. This is what makes sense to me anyway. Maybe it doesn't make sense to anyone else though. And if that is the case, to each his own I guess.

  5. #110
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Yes, I do believe the ressurection onto life and the ressurection onto Damnation happen at the same time, so no this does not help me understand why you believe the moving of the NJ to the start of the MK is needed.
    So you believe that the resurrection of the just and that of the damned will occur at the same time? This is really unfortunate.

  6. #111
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    No, you're still not presenting problems for my position. My position is that death still exist during the MK in Jerusalem and in the world, but that in the NHNE death does not exisit in the NJ or in the World basically NO Death at all. The last enemy Jesus defeats is death so this must happen at the End of the MK then he returns the Kingdom of God to the father and God is All in All (1 Cor 15:24-28) so once more my position is that Isaiah 65:20 applies to the City during the MK not the NJ. Also i still don't get how the above helps your position that there is No death in Jersulem but death in the world.
    Your position is a classic case of contradiction. NHNE will cover the whole heaven and earth just as this present earth/heaven traverses all. It will not be limited to the holy city!!!

    Claiming that death will not occur in the NHNE suggests you are conflating it with NJ. The NHNE will not come until all that offends are judged (Rev 20:11-14). It is a restoration of the polluted earth.

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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Correct but the question is Does Rev 22:15 create a contradiction for the time when the NJ+NHNE are both active and death is Gone from Both locations?

    If no, then no need to move the NJ to the start of the MK.
    That's not what the scripture says and you know it.

  8. #113
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Scripture informs us that we will inherit what was prepared from the foundation of the world.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.



    That's a pristine - very good Hev and Earth where we dwelt with God.

    So it will be again when he restores all things and dwells among us again.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  9. #114
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    So you believe that the resurrection of the just and that of the damned will occur at the same time? This is really unfortunate.
    Yes, I do and I don't believe this happens at the GWTJ.

  10. #115
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Your position is a classic case of contradiction. NHNE will cover the whole heaven and earth just as this present earth/heaven traverses all. It will not be limited to the holy city!!!


    Claiming that death will not occur in the NHNE suggests you are conflating it with NJ. The NHNE will not come until all that offends are judged (Rev 20:11-14). It is a restoration of the polluted earth.
    Sorry you're the one who seems confused.


    1. You agree that in the NHNE no death.
    2. You agree that in the NJ no death.
    3. You agree that the NJ + NHNE will be occurring at the same time (Death No more)

    We agree, on the First 3 but you keep trying to claim that number 3. "IS IMPOSSIBLE because is contradicts Rev 22:14 but like I said even adding in position number 4 won't deal with the contradiction you believe is presented by Rev 22:14."

    4. You believe that the NJ+ NHNE, do not start are the same time.




    None of the first 3 present any form of contradiction to me, and adding in number 4 does nothing to solve the contradiction you seem to be trying to solve.

  11. #116
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
    24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

    Verse 22 appears to establish that the timing in verse 23 and 24 involve the NHNE. In verse 24, why can't that be meaning the LOF? Obviously this scene would not be taking place inside the NJ, but would be taking place outside of it.
    This is indeed during the time of the NJ and NHNE. However is it the LoF, some have claimed it is? I don;t think so. The LoF is a place "away from the presence of the Lamb".

    I have asked myself as to why verse 24 occurs during the NHNE? The only thing I can think of, satan would be bound at this point in the bottomless pit since the timing apears to be sometime soon after the 2nd coming. This serves as a warning to these that go forth in verse 24, transgress against Me, this will be your fate as well. So I take these looking upon these things to be the mortals living outside of the NJ. And if we consider Isaiah 60:12, the timing of that is during the NHNE as well, which then to me helps to further explain satan being loosed after the thousand years and the unsuccessful attempt to try and overthrow Christ and His saints ruling the earth at the time. This is what makes sense to me anyway. Maybe it doesn't make sense to anyone else though. And if that is the case, to each his own I guess.
    Now you are getting close to my thinking.
    Who are these dead?
    Is it those who trangress DURING the NHNE? My thinking is that it actually speaks of that time of those who took the Mark and went to war with Jesus.
    We are told elsewhere in Ezekiel 39 which I connect with that battle.

  12. #117
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Then they can enter by the Gates
    Which would then mean they have access to the Tree of Life, and this means they also have access to God who is in the NJ.

    I'm not sure, Ezekiel 40-48 is a weak point of mine.
    Just focus on Ezekiel 47 and the River of Life and then tell me you can conclude this is NOT the SAME River of Life as stated in Rev 22. I find they are the SAME River.

    Nope none of the above are my arguments once more i believe everything stated from Isaiah 65:19- Isaiah 66:22 is NOT speaking about events during the NHNE. IOW the only things mentioned about the NHNE to me in those passages is Isaiah 65:18 & Isaiah 66:22 and those passages do indeed refer to the same thing as Rev 21-22.
    Wow! Well I guess you can see how impoverished your position is.
    You correctly hold that Trivalee is wrong to divorce Rev 21:1 from Rev 21:2, yet you somehow manage to divorce Isaiah 65:17 from the verses following it, and have it a verse in isolation, until you come to Isaiah 66:22 and then have that verse also in isolation!

    Isaiah 65:17 - 20 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    How can you really separate these sentences? Is it the word "And"?

    But you believe the Godhead is on Earth with Jesus during this time(His period of Rule for 1k Years called the MK) in the NJ just not in a position of Rulership correct?
    Correct, for we read that the Father is with the Lamb.

    I disagree i believe we literally become the temple on Earth during the MK.
    You mean we turn to bricks and mortar, and become actual pillars?
    We are figuratively ALREADY the temple of God, for He dwells in us, and amongst us. This won't change EXCEPT we will see face to face, which brings it into a PHYSICAL reality.
    So what are you expecting to be different then?

  13. #118
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    So you believe that the resurrection of the just and that of the damned will occur at the same time? This is really unfortunate.
    Why. That is EXACTLY what I believe as ALL scripture points to this.
    You seem to confuse "the just" with "the justified".
    Those who are IN Christ are ALREADY justified IN Him. We are NOT "the just". get that clear and then you will find that you get the rest of it correct.

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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Sorry you're the one who seems confused.

    1. You agree that in the NHNE no death.
    2. You agree that in the NJ no death.
    3. You agree that the NJ + NHNE will be occurring at the same time (Death No more)

    We agree, on the First 3 but you keep trying to claim that number 3. "IS IMPOSSIBLE because is contradicts Rev 22:14 but like I said even adding in position number 4 won't deal with the contradiction you believe is presented by Rev 22:14."

    4. You believe that the NJ+ NHNE, do not start are the same time.

    None of the first 3 present any form of contradiction to me, and adding in number 4 does nothing to solve the contradiction you seem to be trying to solve.
    You are not paying attention to my views that why you falsely interpreted my position.

    a. I concur that there will be no death in the NHNE.
    b. The same applies to the holy city (NJ).
    c. NO, I do not agree that the NJ + NHNE will occur at the same time. My position has 1000 years between them. IOW, the NJ starts at the beginning of the MK but the NHNE at the end.
    d. Correct. I believe that NJ + NHNE do not start at the same time. I have posted many exegeses in support.

    Until you have a discerning understanding of John's Revelation prophecies you'll continue to be on the fringes.

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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Correct but the question is Does Rev 22:15 create a contradiction for the time when the NJ+NHNE are both active and death is Gone from Both locations?

    If no, then no need to move the NJ to the start of the MK.
    If the NJ doesn't start with the MK, where then is Jesus Christ' Throne during the Millennial age?

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