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Thread: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

  1. #61
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    So you think that satan is bound now?
    I think that it ends at the second coming myself
    Nope, Satan most certainly is not bound now. At the moment he is in heaven accusing us before God, and Jesus is interceding on our behalf.
    Satan won't be bound until AFTER the final Beast (the 8th head) is defeated.
    2 Thess 2:9 shows that Satan STILL has power etc

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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Nope, Satan most certainly is not bound now. At the moment he is in heaven accusing us before God, and Jesus is interceding on our behalf.
    Satan won't be bound until AFTER the final Beast (the 8th head) is defeated.
    2 Thess 2:9 shows that Satan STILL has power etc
    Luke 10:18
    18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven

    Jesus quoted the above verse after the disciples came back from preaching the kingdom of God.

  3. #63
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Who says the reign ends? It is only the present period of time with Satan bound which ends. This is what he 1,000 years refers to.
    I somewhat addressed this in the thread Marty started, titled...What and when is the thousand years? If you get a chance I would be curious as to whether you might or might not agree with what I concluded in that thread in my first post to him.

  4. #64
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I think that these scriptures tells us that it doesn't end until the second coming

    Daniel 2:44 44"In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

    Rev 20:5
    5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)

    The rest of the dead come to life at the GWTJ

    rev 20:12
    12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books
    As to reigning with Christ a thousand years. IMO it's the manner in which they have been reigning that ends. Even Christ at some point has to end the manner in which He had been reigning, unless one doesn't want to agree with and believe what 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 indicates. This doesn't mean Christ no longer reigns after this then. It means He no longer reigns in this manner, as in He has no reason to judge anyone after this because the GWTJ would now be in the past. No more wicked people on the earth at that point.

  5. #65
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The little season doesn't imply a coming.
    5th seal-----> 6th seal------>coming

    12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


    Matt 24
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory


    God just does not use any words. They have meaning. "little season" would mean less than 90 days.

  6. #66
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    5th seal-----> 6th seal------>coming

    12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


    Matt 24
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory


    God just does not use any words. They have meaning. "little season" would mean less than 90 days.
    If satan's little season were to happen in this age, why not 3.5 years instead, IOW the 42 months in Rev 13?

  7. #67

    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    So you don't believe the thousand years ends exactly like Rev 20 indicates? Does it not say that it ends when satan is released a little season? Does Christ return at the beginning of satan's little season then, rather than at the end of it, that assuming the thousand years and little season occur in this age before the 2nd coming?

    Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm pretty positive myself that when the text indicates when the thousand years are expired, that obviously means the thousand years have ended. Verse 8, regardless whether that happens in this present age or the next age, either way it will involve a period of time for satan to accomplish what he is trying to accomplish there. So even if the thousand years happens in this present age, it doesn't look like to me it ends once Christ has returned though. It would have already ended prior to the 2nd coming.
    Satan's "little season" isn't being depicted as the final time he deceives and raises an army for the ultimate destruction of God's people. It's being shown as the result of his own defeat.

    The key is how (which determines when) the saints ruled with Christ and for this we look at how Jesus ruled over all the powers of darkness.

  8. #68
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    If satan's little season were to happen in this age, why not 3.5 years instead, IOW the 42 months in Rev 13?
    Good question, as myself we have been trained to believe the little season is 3.5 years. But is it?

    9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them;

    So who are these which died?

    Well it would appear they were from the first four seals. And they have white robes. So of course let's see who also has white robes in Revelation.

    In Revelation 7 we see two groups one with white robes and the other 144,000 which are still living on earth and are sealed and numbered.

    Likewise in the 5th seal we see two groups, dead, and fellow servants. Thus the fellow servants would be the 144,000 still alive and then the dead would need to be all those who opposed the beast (saved).

    Thus these saints would have been killed during the 42 months Rev 13 and then the fellow servants (144,000) afterwards during the little season. There is yet another reason and example why the saved are dead before Christ returns!!!


    and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
    So during the little season after the 42 months in which the saints are killed the 144,000 fellow servants are killed.

  9. #69
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Satan's "little season" isn't being depicted as the final time he deceives and raises an army for the ultimate destruction of God's people.

    Actually it is...

  10. #70

    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Agreed thanks and then we dwell with Him enternally
    Yes, eternally
    without the flesh body we ruled over with Christ in this world.

  11. #71

    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Actually it is...
    No it isn't. It's being shown as the short time he had throughout history to work evil, for which he's destroyed. Gog and Magog (Satan's army) is the beasts army.

  12. #72
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    1. I believe the Kingdom will Cover the whole earth. I base this on Passages such as Daniel 2:21-45, Daniel 7:14,26-27. 2. I still find FHG to be the only person on this boards who agrees with you on the timing of the NJ (Glad he is here to confirm that you 2 share this belief). 3. Death and Sorrow will not be found in the NHNE at all much less in the NJ.
    1. This is the error of your position. You said that death and sorrow will not be found in the NHNE which is true. But where you placed it is impractical. Unfortunately, you forget that unlike the NJ that is limited to the enclave of Jerusalem, the NHNE will traverse the whole earth and heaven just as the present earth and heaven cover everywhere.

    2. Because you don't think these through, you keep conflating separate unrelated events (NJ and NHNE) into one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Do you believe that there will be no more death in the NHNE?
    To answer your question, we must first understand why it is necessary for God to destroy this present heaven and earth and replace them. The scriptures say that the world lies in wickedness (1 John 5:19). And the first rebellion against God occurred in heaven. Since the eschaton is the culmination of God's plans for humanity and the restructuring of all things, it follows that as every form of wickedness and things that offend God are eternally destroyed at the GWTJ, this present polluted/defiled heaven and earth too, will be replaced by the NHNE.

    It is, therefore, ludicrous to argue that the NHNE starts at the beginning of the MK when sin, death and wickedness still prevail. This view is akin to what Jesus said about putting new wine into an old wineskin - you'll find that Jesus said it's a no-no!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    I think you've misunderstood this passage the seperation is between those who can enter the city and those who cannot, the fact of the matter is you have not personally addressed your beliefs of the state of the World into the eschaton. If you believe that after the NHNE there is no more death (Rev 21:4) then it is clear that the NJ is not the only place where death is No more. If this is the case those described as *outside the city* would mean all those who did not recieve christ that they may enter it.
    See above for explanation.

  13. #73
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Yes, I believe FHG convinced him to Change his view on the NJ, while they continued to disagree on the timing of the NHNE. It was a sad day(to me) when he accepted FHG views on the timing of the NJ(believing wrongly in my opinion that Rev 22:15 created a contradiction that could only be reconciled by moving up the timing of the arrival of the NJ). Still, FHG Still believes the NJ & NHNE come at the same time so Trivalee chronology is unique to the views expressed by anyone else on these boards from what I've seen, with the Belief that the NJ comes down during the start of the MK and that the NJ and NHNE do not share the same timing.
    For once you expressed my position accurately and I appreciate that. Thanks a lot, brother. And while we are at it, my position aligns with scripture. The NJ is not the NHNE and there's nothing in scripture to suggest they occur at the same time.

  14. #74
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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. This is the error of your position.
    Once more I'm not sure where you see the error.




    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    You said that death and sorrow will not be found in the NHNE which is true.
    Ok.




    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Because you don't think these through, you keep conflating separate unrelated events (NJ and NHNE) into one!
    Ok but think this through logically, if the NJ continues into the NHNE, will death and sorrow still be found *OUTSIDE the City* during the NHNE?




    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    To answer your question, we must first understand why it is necessary for God to destroy this present heaven and earth and replace them. The scriptures say that the world lies in wickedness (1 John 5:19). And the first rebellion against God occurred in heaven. Since the eschaton is the culmination of God's plans for humanity and the restructuring of all things, it follows that as every form of wickedness and things that offend God are eternally destroyed at the GWTJ, this present polluted/defiled heaven and earth too, will be replaced by the NHNE. It is, therefore, ludicrous to argue that the NHNE starts at the beginning of the MK when sin, death, and wickedness still prevail. This view is akin to what Jesus said about putting new wine into an old wineskin - you'll find that Jesus said it's a no-no! See above for explanation.
    Correct it is Ludicrous to argue that the NHNE starts at the beginning of the MK but it is also Ludacris to argue the same for the NJ, the main reason is that there clearly is a temple during the MK(see Ezekiel's temple) and there is None in the NJ or more accurately Godhead and the Lamb are the temples. So clearly you have the Godhead on earth before the GWTJ and Before the NHNE(see Rev 21:22) when wickedness and death still exist. Also Clearly, if the NJ is present during the NHNE there is no death Anywhere in or out the city right??

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    Re: Re-examining the Millennial Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    For once you expressed my position accurately and I appreciate that. Thanks a lot, brother. And while we are at it, my position aligns with scripture. The NJ is not the NHNE and there's nothing in scripture to suggest they occur at the same time.
    Besides the fact that they're found in the same passage you mean? Clearly, the NHNE is mentioned immediately before the coming of the NJ in Rev 21:1-7. I'm just saying again the contradiction you believe exist still isn't solved by moving up the timing of the NJ so i don't think you should do it at all it's not needed.

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