Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 LastLast
Results 166 to 180 of 225

Thread: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

  1. #166
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,290
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    There is a similarity yes.
    But there is a huge difference.

    The similarity is non-premillers views do have sinners on the Earth during the 1000 year period like premillers.
    So it doesn't make sense to say it's somehow weird or wrong that Premill says there are sinners during the thousand years since Amil does as well. Amil always uses that sinners exist in the thousand years as if that's evidence against premill when clearly it is simply hypocrisy.


    However, non-premillers do not have surviving sinners on the Earth, in Christ’s Kingdom ***after*** His Return when He has defeated death and ***while*** He is reigning in the Earth.

    And Premills also have no sinners in the eternal kingdom. So we both agree there are sinners in the thousand year reign, but not after the GWTJ and the eternal kingdom.





    Non-premill (a or post), are the only endtime views where Christ’s Earthly Kingdom is truly perfect, peace, righteous, and filled with the knowledge and glory of His people.
    That's not true. That is the same in Premill as well. As I said above, the Millennial kingdom (reign during the thousand years) has a beginning and end and includes sinners and this is on the Earth. The one that never ends comes after the GWTJ and there are no sinners and is perfect as you describe. The difference is when the thousand years starts and ends, and when Christ returns to the Earth.

    The Premill Kingdom If Christ after His return, is same-ole-same ole; sin still existing, wickedness abounding, even adding in animal sacrifices, physical circumcision, ethnic divisions, culminating in a concluded Kingdom reign mustering a throng if billions of Christ hating mortals, numbering the sands of the sea.
    Actually no because Premill's kingdom doesn't have any of those things existing in it but those bad things do exist during the Amil reign of Christ that supposedly is happening now with his saints yet that reign is "is same-ole-same ole; sin still existing, wickedness abounding, even adding in animal sacrifices, physical circumcision, ethnic divisions, culminating in a concluded Kingdom reign mustering a throng if billions of Christ hating mortals, numbering the sands of the sea."


    This to me is a picture of a failed Kingdom reign in the Earth, as compared to the non-premill reign of Christ on the earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    Again, it can also be said that the supposed current Millennial kingdom of Amil is a "failed Kingdom reign in the Earth"

    But Premill has an advantage here as I explained above.

    Amil's Millennial kingdom is now and it's a disaster with rebellion and evil but not so in Premill.

    Premill's Millennial kingdom is strictly ruled and no rebellion is allowed, no sin or murders...none of the things happening now in Amils Millennial kingdom. The only rebellion that happens is only after the Millennial kingdom ends and God allows Satan one last rebellion.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #167
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,900

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    And Premills also have no sinners in the eternal kingdom. So we both agree there are sinners in the thousand year reign, but not after the GWTJ and the eternal kingdom.
    True

    Amills are warned that we are sheep sent out amongst the wolves , as God doesn't want anyone to perish , but all peoples over the world to come to repentance before the end comes. Today is the day. The ministry of reconciliation is given to us now until Christ comes again. We successfully preach the Gospel to all peoples saving some of them from all nations.


    Premill with their abilities of a glorified body and Christ present on earth after his coming, make no impact whatsoever to those outside the glorified camp of the saints...leaving billions like the sand of the sea to receive the punishment they should of received at his second coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    And Premills also have no sinners in the eternal kingdom. So we both agree there are sinners in the thousand year reign, but not after the GWTJ and the eternal kingdom.
    True

    Amills are warned that we are sheep sent out amongst the wolves , as God doesn't want anyone to perish , but all peoples over the world to come to repentance before the end comes. Today is the day. The ministry of reconciliation is given to us now until Christ comes again. We successfully preach the Gospel to all peoples saving some of them from all nations.


    Premill with their abilities of a glorified body and Christ present on earth after his coming, make no impact whatsoever to those outside the glorified camp of the saints...leaving billions like the sand of the sea to receive the punishment they should of received at his second coming.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  3. #168
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,290
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    True

    Amills are warned that we are sheep sent out amongst the wolves , as God doesn't want anyone to perish , but all peoples over the world to come to repentance before the end comes. Today is the day. The ministry of reconciliation is given to us now until Christ comes again. We successfully preach the Gospel to all peoples saving some of them from all nations.
    Premills do the same but we don't attempt to portray others as not doing this just to make our own position seem more righteous.

    Premill with their abilities of a glorified body and Christ present on earth after his coming, make no impact whatsoever to those outside the glorified camp of the saints...leaving billions like the sand of the sea to receive the punishment they should of received at his second coming.

    This isn't true in the slightest. That's just Amil nonsense propaganda. All Christians are doing the same now regardless of being Amil or Premil and in Premill there is no such thing as them making "no impact whatsoever to those outside the glorified camp of the saints". The saints in the thousand years are priests that reign with Christ over those people so they are well taken care of and many believe people are saved during that time and I agree with that. Let's stop falsely portraying Premil's with untrue things like this. It only sullies the position you are representing when this type of tactic is employed.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    True

    Amills are warned that we are sheep sent out amongst the wolves , as God doesn't want anyone to perish , but all peoples over the world to come to repentance before the end comes. Today is the day. The ministry of reconciliation is given to us now until Christ comes again. We successfully preach the Gospel to all peoples saving some of them from all nations.
    Premills do the same but we don't attempt to portray others as not doing this just to make our own position seem more righteous.

    Premill with their abilities of a glorified body and Christ present on earth after his coming, make no impact whatsoever to those outside the glorified camp of the saints...leaving billions like the sand of the sea to receive the punishment they should of received at his second coming.

    This isn't true in the slightest. That's just Amil nonsense propaganda. All Christians are doing the same now regardless of being Amil or Premil and in Premill there is no such thing as them making "no impact whatsoever to those outside the glorified camp of the saints". The saints in the thousand years are priests that reign with Christ over those people so they are well taken care of and many believe people are saved during that time and I agree with that. Let's stop falsely portraying Premil's with untrue things like this. It only sullies the position you are representing when this type of tactic is employed.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #169

    Cool Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Not defending Amil since I'm still Premil, yet your question raises yet another question.

    Let's look at the following text.

    Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
    4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
    5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    It seems to me the 'them' and the 'they' in verse 5 are still referring to His servants per verse 3. And if so, eventually the GWTJ has to occur, and that all of the wicked will be cast into the LOF, leaving nothing but saved immortals at that point. The fact the text says they shall reign for ever and ever, who do they reign over for ever and ever then?

    Rev 22:3-5 is describing New Jerusalem and not Christ's millennial Kingdom. Isaiah speaks of a remnant of people left after the return of Christ.

    Isa. 24:6 "Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

    We are given a picture of mortal humans during the millennium in Zechariah 14:8: "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be." Use this as a time frame reference. Next:

    Zechariah 14:17-19 "And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. *And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles."

    Who do we reign over forever? Does God not have a whole universe to rule? You won't be bored.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  5. #170
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,900

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The saints in the thousand years are priests that reign with Christ over those people so they are well taken care of and many believe people are saved during that time and I agree with that.
    Well taken care of??? So you believe that these once Christ rejecters who lacked faith at his coming ,come into the blessed hope due to what they see.? ( being the Glorified Christ and saints during your millennium?)


    Never gonna happen. Who hopes for something that he can already see? Isnt faith the substance of things hoped for and the things not yet seen.


    Today can only be the day of salvation, before you see him come again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The saints in the thousand years are priests that reign with Christ over those people so they are well taken care of and many believe people are saved during that time and I agree with that.
    Well taken care of??? So you believe that these once Christ rejecters who lacked faith at his coming ,come into the blessed hope due to what they see.? ( being the Glorified Christ and saints during your millennium?)


    Never gonna happen. Who hopes for something that he can already see? Isnt faith the substance of things hoped for and the things not yet seen.


    Today can only be the day of salvation, before you see him come again.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  6. #171
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,615

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    So it doesn't make sense to say it's somehow weird or wrong that Premill says there are sinners during the thousand years since Amil does as well. Amil always uses that sinners exist in the thousand years as if that's evidence against premill when clearly it is simply hypocrisy.





    And Premills also have no sinners in the eternal kingdom. So we both agree there are sinners in the thousand year reign, but not after the GWTJ and the eternal kingdom.







    That's not true. That is the same in Premill as well. As I said above, the Millennial kingdom (reign during the thousand years) has a beginning and end and includes sinners and this is on the Earth. The one that never ends comes after the GWTJ and there are no sinners and is perfect as you describe. The difference is when the thousand years starts and ends, and when Christ returns to the Earth.



    Actually no because Premill's kingdom doesn't have any of those things existing in it but those bad things do exist during the Amil reign of Christ that supposedly is happening now with his saints yet that reign is "is same-ole-same ole; sin still existing, wickedness abounding, even adding in animal sacrifices, physical circumcision, ethnic divisions, culminating in a concluded Kingdom reign mustering a throng if billions of Christ hating mortals, numbering the sands of the sea."





    Again, it can also be said that the supposed current Millennial kingdom of Amil is a "failed Kingdom reign in the Earth"

    But Premill has an advantage here as I explained above.

    Amil's Millennial kingdom is now and it's a disaster with rebellion and evil but not so in Premill.

    Premill's Millennial kingdom is strictly ruled and no rebellion is allowed, no sin or murders...none of the things happening now in Amils Millennial kingdom. The only rebellion that happens is only after the Millennial kingdom ends and God allows Satan one last rebellion.
    Your entire post missed the boat.
    I am not sure if it was by intent or by carelessness.

    Use the 2nd Advent of Christ as the point of difference.
    Not until then, does the Amill/Postmill earthly reign of Christ begin.


    Premill after the return of Christ has an earthly kingdom with sin still existing, wickedness abounding, even adding in animal sacrifices, physical circumcision, ethnic divisions, culminating in a concluded Kingdom reign mustering a throng if billions of Christ hating mortals, numbering the sands of the sea."

    Amill/Postmill after the return of Christ is a reign of Christ over the Earth filled with glorified believers where the curse of sin and death are removed, in perfect peace and harmony, forevermore.

    There is no comparison between the two expectations of what the Earth and Christís Kingdom reign will be like AFTER the 2nd Advent.

    Amill/Postmillís Kingdom reign of Christ on the Earth, is AFTER His Return, forevermore!

  7. #172
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,290
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Your entire post missed the boat.
    I am not sure if it was by intent or by carelessness.

    Use the 2nd Advent of Christ as the point of difference.
    Not until then, does the Amill/Postmill earthly reign of Christ begin.
    Every Amil I have ever talked to says the reign is now with Christ in heaven and saints here on Earth for the Amil thousand year reign.

    Premill after the return of Christ has an earthly kingdom with sin still existing, wickedness abounding, even adding in animal sacrifices, physical circumcision, ethnic divisions, culminating in a concluded Kingdom reign mustering a throng if billions of Christ hating mortals, numbering the sands of the sea."
    That's not true in Premill. There is no sin or wickedness In the Premill thousand years, but there is in the Amil thousand years.

    Amill/Postmill after the return of Christ is a reign of Christ over the Earth filled with glorified believers where the curse of sin and death are removed, in perfect peace and harmony, forevermore.
    Except the people that are killed by fire from God in heaven...and except those who receive the second death...



    There is no comparison between the two expectations of what the Earth and Christ’s Kingdom reign will be like AFTER the 2nd Advent.

    Amill/Postmill’s Kingdom reign of Christ on the Earth, is AFTER His Return, forevermore!
    Clearly I was comparing Amil's thousand years with Premil's thousand years and clearing up mistaken beliefs of what exists during Premil's thousand years.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Your entire post missed the boat.
    I am not sure if it was by intent or by carelessness.

    Use the 2nd Advent of Christ as the point of difference.
    Not until then, does the Amill/Postmill earthly reign of Christ begin.
    Every Amil I have ever talked to says the reign is now with Christ in heaven and saints here on Earth for the Amil thousand year reign.

    Premill after the return of Christ has an earthly kingdom with sin still existing, wickedness abounding, even adding in animal sacrifices, physical circumcision, ethnic divisions, culminating in a concluded Kingdom reign mustering a throng if billions of Christ hating mortals, numbering the sands of the sea."
    That's not true in Premill. There is no sin or wickedness In the Premill thousand years, but there is in the Amil thousand years.

    Amill/Postmill after the return of Christ is a reign of Christ over the Earth filled with glorified believers where the curse of sin and death are removed, in perfect peace and harmony, forevermore.
    Except the people that are killed by fire from God in heaven...and except those who receive the second death...



    There is no comparison between the two expectations of what the Earth and Christís Kingdom reign will be like AFTER the 2nd Advent.

    Amill/Postmillís Kingdom reign of Christ on the Earth, is AFTER His Return, forevermore!
    Clearly I was comparing Amil's thousand years with Premil's thousand years and clearing up mistaken beliefs of what exists during Premil's thousand years.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #173
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,615

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Again you are purposefully misleading my point.

    My point is what is the state of Christís kingdom on the Earth, after His second coming.

    You try to confuse and alter the point to compare Amill before the 2nd Advent to Premill after the second advent...apples and oranges.

    Look at the characteristics of the earth and who the people on earth are and what the people on earth are doingare doing in Christís earthly kingdom.

    In Amill/Postmill while we do reign with Christ in heaven during the symbolic thousand years between the 1st and 2nd Advent....we do not reign with Him in His kingdom on Earth until after His Return, and that earthly reign is after the resurrection and GWT judgment, when the NJ has come down, and the Earth is filled with righteousness.

    Premillís earthly kingdom reign after the second coming is no better if not worse, than the conditions on the earth before the 2nd coming (by adding animal sacrifices, circumcision, ethnic divisions and subjugation into their earthly kingdom reign)

  9. #174
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,954
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Not defending Amil since I'm still Premil, yet your question raises yet another question.

    Let's look at the following text.

    Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
    4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
    5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

    It seems to me the 'them' and the 'they' in verse 5 are still referring to His servants per verse 3. And if so, eventually the GWTJ has to occur, and that all of the wicked will be cast into the LOF, leaving nothing but saved immortals at that point. The fact the text says they shall reign for ever and ever, who do they reign over for ever and ever then?
    Fair question.
    Who is they in verse 3? Surely it is God and the Lamb. Note that verse 3 has us as their servants.
    Now in verse 4 it speaks of us, and call us "they" and therefore it is possible to think that verse 5 is "they" from verse 4. However verse 5 reintroduces the Lord God who gives them light. Therefore is it them or us who is in view as reigning forever?

    The word in the Greek is βασιλεύσουσιν.
    This is a Verb - Future Indicative Active - 3rd person.
    That it is 3rd person is why "they" is stated.
    The FIA shows it as a continual action.
    This unfortunately does not clarify for us whether it is God and the Lamb who reign for ever or us.

    Personally I think it means God as this is His position and we are His servants.
    However, who knows what God might do in the future. He may make other worlds and other creations over which we will rule.
    It could be a referral back to having dominion over the world that He made, even as Adam was given authority and dominion.

    So let's assume it means a dominion such as Adam had, is that the case now? If not then it means the Millennium cannot be now.
    Fair question though.

  10. #175
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,954
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Whether Premill, or Amill, or Postmill; we all will be reigning in Christ's kingdom 50,000; 100,000, 1million, 1 billion years from now.
    So what does reigning with Christ mean then?
    Obviously it cannot mean only reigning over subjegated mortal sinners who have not yet been judged and cast into the fire yet.....limited to only 1000 or 1007 years in the premill kingdom reign.
    So what does reign mean, when it is extend beyond the GWT and into eternity future?
    Premill is stuck with that as a difficult answer; but not the other mill-views.
    When you answer who or what the redeemed are reigning over with Christ 5 million years from now; you have answered your own question.
    Actually, I have answered divaD's question on that.
    There are two separate things in your question.
    1) You assume that we will be reigning in 1 million years from now. Apart from Rev 22:5 do you have any other verse which suggests this?
    2) As the focus in CONTEXT is mortals, then this is not an issue, yet you are making the CONTEXT to be different, based on circular arguments.

    Yes, they are all the redeemed, and the kings are among the redeemed, walking in the city. (kinda like the 3 kings of orient are, who were a pre-type example who also were found walking around in the present Jerusalem 2000 years ago)
    The wicked are cast out. (I'll tell you where in a minute, but it isn't Nebraska or Bolivia)
    The wicked are OUTSIDE the city.

    No, I apply the scriptures consistently.
    Christ's kingdom is the entire world, and beyond.
    Christ's kingdom is not limited to only inside the N.J.

    Luke 1:33 "And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. "
    Daniel 7:26 "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Hitherto is the end of the matter"
    Rev 5:9 "Afor thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. "
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    2 Peter 1:11 "the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. "

    You ask for where the unclean and liars are who are outside the NJ? That is easy; they are described to be in the Lake of Fire; not in Christ's Kingdom.
    He is declared King of Kings and Lord of Lords and that is His position BEFORE He comes to reign.
    His kingdom will indeed be MORE THAN the NJ.
    Nothing you have put above contradicts what I have stated.
    The unclean and liars are NOT in the LoF though DURING the MK. This actually we agree on. The problem is that the MK and NHNE is at the same time, and this is where almost ALL Amils and most Premils have a problem.

  11. #176
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,954
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    I see no mortals surviving Matthew 25. All of the wicked are cast into the fire at Christ's coming from Heaven with the angels.
    That is their final destination.

    I see no sinners within the Everlasting Kingdom in Daniel 7.
    So you disagree with Dan 7:12?
    As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.*

    Maybe your interpretation of some of those OT prophecies are incorrect?
    They are quite straight forward:
    Zec 14:16* Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.*
    Zec 14:17* And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.

    Notice it speaks of survivors in verse 16 and it has the possibility that some of those survivors might not go up to worship Jesus at that time, which means they are NOT Christians, nnor righteous immortals.
    However if you choose to ignore CONTEXT and make everything symbolic when it is given in plain language?

    Again, Jesus said all the wicked are destroyed and cast into the fire at His return.
    Nope, He NEVER says that. None of your quotes say that either.

    How many times does Jesus Himself, have to tell you that, to reconsider your notions about how you might be mis-interpretting a handful of OT prophecies?
    I take ALL of scripture and not a portion, and especially not a portion out of CONTEXT.

    I have no problem changing my view when a better, more tendable view comes along. The Lord leads us there, on His time.
    I used to think that there would be 144K jewish evangelists taking the gospel to billions during a time when the Holy Spirit was removed from the earth, and the church and all Christians had vanished into thin air.
    God changed my of that, corrected me at a time that was right, and showed me better, more sound understanding.
    Good. So continue to be open to Him as he leads you further.
    We ALL (myself included) need to continue learning and growing.
    The most tenable view (which matches ALL scripture) without hyper-literalising, nor symbolicating everything is take the CONTEXT and get what it says and means in that, and go from there.

    I still think if you focus on what Jesus taught, and really grab hold deeply of His words; they will lead you to best properly understand other passages, or passages that are more highly contested and argued related to endtime events.
    I do note and take in what Jesus says, but I don't find the same interpretation that you do as the CONTEXT shows me otherwise.
    When Jesus speaks of Christians He shows something different to those who are NOT Christians.
    Jesus EXPLICITLY states in John 5:24 that those who believe in Him (Christians) do NOT come into judgement.
    Therefore when He continues on to speak about judgement He is then NOT speaking about those who believe in Him, but for those who do not.
    The GWToJ is NOT for a single Christian as Jesus UNEQUIVOCALLY stated, and is a KEY part of the glorious Gospel we have. This is why we wait for His appearing with Hope, for we are NOT destined to be judged for eternal life, having already been given the down payment, the seal of the Holy Spirit.

    If ANY passage speaks of judgement for eternal life then you KNOW immediately it is NOT about Christians.

  12. #177
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,615

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The unclean and liars are NOT in the LoF though DURING the MK. This actually we agree on. The problem is that the MK and NHNE is at the same time, and this is where almost ALL Amils and most Premils have a problem.
    I don't agree with this.
    Since your interpreation of what the thousand years are, and when it occurs, is different than mine, it cannot really be the point of focus we can agree on (as you say).

    However, we can agree that the 2nd Coming of Christ will occur, and we can talk about that point in time; what will occur at it, and what will the state of Christ's Kindom on the Earth thereafter be like.

    Im focusing on when Christ returns, and reigns over His Kingdom on the earth; from that point forward.

    What will the Earth be like when Christ is post-2ndAdvent here, and reigning in person.

    as for the judgment; Christians do not fall under His judgment nor condemnation; but we participate in the final judgment; and we do give account for things done in the body; whether good or bad.
    Once it is over, we do not get thrown into the LOF; because we have the mediator and advocate on our side, pardoning our sentence. But to think that Christians are not present in all of the passages discussing the final judgment, it letting the conflict that brings to your doctrine, influence your doctrine.

    The entire idea that you think Christians are missing from this passage, is just to me absolutely untendable.

    "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. "

  13. #178
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,954
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    I don't agree with this.
    Since your interpreation of what the thousand years are, and when it occurs, is different than mine, it cannot really be the point of focus we can agree on (as you say).
    However, we can agree that the 2nd Coming of Christ will occur, and we can talk about that point in time; what will occur at it, and what will the state of Christ's Kindom on the Earth thereafter be like.
    Im focusing on when Christ returns, and reigns over His Kingdom on the earth; from that point forward.
    What will the Earth be like when Christ is post-2ndAdvent here, and reigning in person.
    Yes we can discuss those, even if we have a different chronology, though having the MK and the NHNE at the same time.

    as for the judgment; Christians do not fall under His judgment nor condemnation; but we participate in the final judgment; and we do give account for things done in the body; whether good or bad.
    Once it is over, we do not get thrown into the LOF; because we have the mediator and advocate on our side, pardoning our sentence. But to think that Christians are not present in all of the passages discussing the final judgment, it letting the conflict that brings to your doctrine, influence your doctrine.
    Nope we do NOT participate in the final judgement. You make this claim but NOT a single scripture states this. Instead we are told that we do NOT fall under this judgement. Moreover the GWToJ is a judgement for Eternal Life.
    I am NOT going to be judged for that as Jesus has ALREADY died in my place.
    Those who take part int he first resurrection can not be harmed in the second.

    The entire idea that you think Christians are missing from this passage, is just to me absolutely untendable.
    "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. "
    Actually the idea that a SINGLE Christian is involved in this is UNTENABLE. It is CONTRARY to the Gospel we are called to preach.
    We do NOT have a resurrection of life BECAUSE we have done good, nor do we have part in a resurrection to damnation. We are resurrected when Jesus returns BEFORE this general resurrection happens. You see you underlined the word ALL. And you are correct to do that, for it is CERTAINLY ALL who are resurrected. What you miss is the words immediately afterwards, though you put them in bold - "that are in the graves". Christians will NOT be in the graves, we will have ALREADY been resurrected, having met Him in the clouds.
    Therefore as Christians are NOT in the graves, so this statement does NOT include us, for it is for ALL who are IN the graves, but we are IN Christ, and NOT the graves.

  14. #179
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,615

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Yes we can discuss those, even if we have a different chronology, though having the MK and the NHNE at the same time.


    Nope we do NOT participate in the final judgement. You make this claim but NOT a single scripture states this. Instead we are told that we do NOT fall under this judgement. Moreover the GWToJ is a judgement for Eternal Life.
    I am NOT going to be judged for that as Jesus has ALREADY died in my place.
    Those who take part int he first resurrection can not be harmed in the second.


    Actually the idea that a SINGLE Christian is involved in this is UNTENABLE. It is CONTRARY to the Gospel we are called to preach.
    We do NOT have a resurrection of life BECAUSE we have done good, nor do we have part in a resurrection to damnation. We are resurrected when Jesus returns BEFORE this general resurrection happens. You see you underlined the word ALL. And you are correct to do that, for it is CERTAINLY ALL who are resurrected. What you miss is the words immediately afterwards, though you put them in bold - "that are in the graves". Christians will NOT be in the graves, we will have ALREADY been resurrected, having met Him in the clouds.
    Therefore as Christians are NOT in the graves, so this statement does NOT include us, for it is for ALL who are IN the graves, but we are IN Christ, and NOT the graves.
    your eschatology is affecting your soteriology.

    You are creating different groups of humans divided by different reasons, race, time, whatever....to then apply to different resurrections, jugdmnets, destinies, etc....all because of your eschatology.
    It is ruining your understanding of what Christ came for, for all men; uniting all together in one; and ending divisions in Him.

    All humans will be at the final judgment.

    Those who belong to Christ, will inherit eternal life, and glorified bodies.
    Those who reject Christ, will inherit the lake of fire.

    There are no other groups.

    But we all will be resurrected; and we will all be present at the final judgment; where everyone will given an account.

    I have given you the scriptures, time and time again; they conflict your view and your groupings, so you dismiss them.

    I can't help that.
    I am more concerned about how you are allowing your eschatology view, to muck up your view of Christ, and salvation, and how all men are united in that together; not divided.

  15. #180
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,290
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    The issues here for Amil:

    1. It shows the righteous are all resurrected first before the unrighteous are. That disproves what Amil claims regarding all being resurrected at the same time.

    2. It also does not state how much time passes between the first resurrection and the second resurrection. Rev 20 provides that info as being a thousand years since "the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years are finished" which is the second resurrection of a group of the dead found in Rev 20. The first group is the first resurrection, the second group a thousand years later is the second resurrection.

    3. Amil denies there is a first and second resurrection yet this verse and Rev 20 does prove it.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. GWTJ - Judgement of the Dead or the Living?
    By Soldier_of_Faith in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 269
    Last Post: Jun 11th 2019, 01:29 AM
  2. Was creation created for immortality?
    By clormond in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Nov 24th 2016, 07:27 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •