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Thread: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

  1. #31
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The BOL could simply be opened showing that none of their names can be found in it. Apparently the names found written in the BOL have already been written in it before this judgment even commences. So it's not like if their works pass the test, God will then at that time add their names to the BOL.
    All names are written from the foundation of the world no one is added later.

    The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire

  2. #32
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Are we not all judged and our works there also? Why can't the "judgement seat" be the same as the GWT? It is.
    No, we are not judged there for our works.
    The GWToJ occurs AFTER the MK, but we are judged when we meet Jesus.

    But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
    For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
    Yes, it is a question of chronology and purpose.
    The chronology is wrong, and also the purpose. The GWToJ is for judgement for eternal life, NOT for rewards.

    If the GWT was only for the wicked why then the BOL? Also no names are added to the book. The book is complete at the foundation with all names then those are blotted out from there.
    If you read what I put in full you would note I am not saying it is for the wicked.
    After all how is someone characterised as wicked EXCEPT they are judged, so the GWToJ is for determining WHO is wicked and who is righteous.
    We do NOT get our righteousness from our works, but through the sacrifice of Jesus, and so are NOT judged as to whether we are wicked or righteous.

  3. #33
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    All names are written from the foundation of the world no one is added later.
    Is that correct?
    Your scripture does NOT say no one is added DURING the judgement, only that when the judgement is over then if they have not been written.
    Rev 20:15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    However your quote from Rev 13 could either mean that the judgement is known beforehand, and therefore they are written already or it (which is predestination) or it simply means that those who have not come to Christ are not yet written in the Book of Life (which has existed since the foundation of the world) and therefore they will worship him. As I don;t see predestination as a correct view of the world I go for the second meaning.

  4. #34
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Maybe there is more than one judgment that takes place at different times but that you are concluding there is only one total, that being the GTWJ. Have you ever thought that is why what you are concluding is not adding up?
    It does add up to me. Many scriptures strongly suggest one Final judgment.

    Rom 2
    5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:

    7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

    8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation


    2Thess1

    This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,

    8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

    10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

    2Pet 3
    “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


    10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
    11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

    Matt 25
    31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne
    32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  5. #35
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    It does add up to me. Many scriptures strongly suggest one Final judgment.

    Rom 2
    5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:

    7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;

    8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation


    2Thess1

    This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,

    8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

    10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

    2Pet 3
    “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


    10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
    11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

    Matt 25
    31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne
    32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
    But it's not adding up though. At the GWTJ all who are present there are bodily raised from the dead, from literal graves. The saved still alive when Christ returns don't physically die, they become instant immortals instead, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. If everyone is supposed to be at this judgment though, it would also have to include them as well. So how do they get there when the only way to get there is to first be physically dead then literally rise from the dead? So like I indicated it doesn't add up that the GWTJ is the only judgment then.

  6. #36
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    The context of ‘the twinkling of an eye’ is the resdurection.

    To put on the immortal and incorruptible bodies spoken of in that chapter death must occur, even if it is only for a twinkling.
    The entire chapter is about how through resurrection, we inherit our glorified bodies.

  7. #37
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    But it's not adding up though. At the GWTJ all who are present there are bodily raised from the dead, from literal graves. The saved still alive when Christ returns don't physically die, they become instant immortals instead, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump. If everyone is supposed to be at this judgment though, it would also have to include them as well. So how do they get there when the only way to get there is to first be physically dead then literally rise from the dead? So like I indicated it doesn't add up that the GWTJ is the only judgment then.

    it will make sense when you understand that there are no saved still alive and that in conjunction they are resurrected in a twinkling of an eye. And yes all have to die physically it is a requirement.

  8. #38
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    It does add up to me. Many scriptures strongly suggest one Final judgment.

    Amen Jeff, keep at it!!!!

    No 1000 years between judgments all are judged on the last day!!!!

  9. #39
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    As I don;t see predestination as a correct view of the world I go for the second meaning.
    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


    I guess predestination is too conservative view and not a with the mainstream liberal theology being taught today..

  10. #40
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    But it's not adding up though. At the GWTJ all who are present there are bodily raised from the dead, from literal graves. The saved still alive when Christ returns don't physically die, they become instant immortals instead, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump.

    Jn 5
    28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

    That's one judgment for both at the hour of his coming.


    1cor 15
    53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”



    Putting on immortality is a putting off of a death filled mortal body in a twinkling of an eye. It dies.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Per Premil though, this judgment would be a thousand years and a little season post the 2nd coming. Who would be the ones putting on immortality that late in the game? My Bible indicates immortality is initially accomplished at the last trump, in the twinkling of an eye. That of course happens at the 2nd coming, regardless that Keraz appears to disagree.
    I disagree with the idea that anyone will receive immortality when Jesus Returns, because it will not be conferred until after the Millennium. The prophesies about the Return do not state it and the prophesies about the GWTJ and the Eternity afterward, describe the Eternal state of those who have earned their place in the Book of Life.
    This truth is logical and a common sense view of how God has planned His whole dealings with mankind, from start to finish.

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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Jn 5
    28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

    That's one judgment for both at the hour of his coming. .
    Please provide a scripture that proves John 5:28 will occur at the Return of Jesus.
    If you can't, then it is plainly obvious that John is referring to the GWTJ. Where it is plainly stated that ALL the people who have ever lived will stand before God in the final Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

  13. #43
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I disagree with the idea that anyone will receive immortality when Jesus Returns, because it will not be conferred until after the Millennium. The prophesies about the Return do not state it and the prophesies about the GWTJ and the Eternity afterward, describe the Eternal state of those who have earned their place in the Book of Life.
    This truth is logical and a common sense view of how God has planned His whole dealings with mankind, from start to finish.

    Rom 8
    18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.


    Lk 21
    27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  14. #44
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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Please provide a scripture that proves John 5:28 will occur at the Return of Jesus.
    If you can't, then it is plainly obvious that John is referring to the GWTJ. Where it is plainly stated that ALL the people who have ever lived will stand before God in the final Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
    John is referring to the GWT. The resurrection to life occurs at his coming. He will raise us the last day. We are glorified in him having a body like his body when we see him as he is at his coming.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: Do anyone receive immortality at the GWTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    John is referring to the GWT. The resurrection to life occurs at his coming. He will raise us the last day. We are glorified in him having a body like his body when we see him as he is at his coming.
    Your replies are somewhat confused.
    The Last Day will be the final day of God's experiment with humans. He will keep those who have proved they are worthy into Eternity. The rest go into the Lake of fire.

    Your scriptures in #43 do not prove that Christians will receive a spiritual body at Jesus' Return. Like John 3:16, they give the Promise of immortality and when that will happen is clearly stated to be at the GWTJ.

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