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Thread: What and when is the thousand years?

  1. #16
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe Rev.20:4 shows how the followers of Jesus reigned on earth.

    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev.12:11

    Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Rom.8:37

    For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1Jn.5:4

    To conquer principalities and powers is to reign over them and this occurs before we die.
    Yes we come to life and reign with Him when we accept Him as our saviour

  2. #17
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe Rev.20:4 shows how the followers of Jesus reigned on earth.

    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev.12:11

    Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Rom.8:37

    For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1Jn.5:4

    To conquer principalities and powers is to reign over them and this occurs before we die.
    I don't disagree with this. What begs the question then, when did they do these things? It can't be during the thousand years though. satan is in the pit at the time. It therefore has to either be before the thousand years or after the thousand years. As to the beast in Rev 13, the timing of that also can't be during the thousand years because satan is the one who gives the beast it's power, thus satan can't be bound when he does that. Unfortunately then most non Premils, so maybe not all non Premils though, typically disregard chronology when it comes to determining these kind of things.

  3. #18
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But isn't the reigning with Jesus because satan is bound? Isn't that suppose to be the reason we reign? If not why do they seam to be at the same time?
    I do think that we still reign with Jesus after satans release
    No the REASON we reign is NOT because Satan is bound. We reign because that is the promise of God.
    They are seen as the same time because they are put together in one vision with 1K as the heart of it.
    Also this is a specific period of time whilst other prophecies of the OT are fulfilled.

    If literal this can't be the resurrection as it is only for the ones who were beheaded by the beast.
    What about all of the other martyred saints?
    This is NOT stated as an EXCLUSIVE group. It doesn't say ONLY those who are martyred are resurrected. Instead it is an incentive for those who are facing martyrdom that God's knows and will reward them. We won't all reign over cities (I don't think), but have various roles based on how we responded to Him in our lives.

  4. #19
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    But if the thousand years start at roughly the same time though, give or take a day or two, how can it then not end at the same time as well? Does it really make sense that satan would be bound before the time of the first resurrection? Does not the first resurrection involve the dead in Christ who rise first? Doesn't that event precede Jesus and His army confronting the beast and it's armies? Until these things happen first, satan can't yet be bound, right?
    The end at approximately the same time. Within a year's period it would seem.
    Satan isn't bound before the 1st resurrection, but the question is whether IMMEDIATELY you are resurrected you also start reigning. Because 1,000 years is an exact figure so we want to take it as exactly that, but there is no requirement for it to be EXACTLY 1,000 years to the day, hour, minute and second.

    To look at it another way, Jesus is crowned King of Kings BEFORE He comes to earth to actually reign. After being given the title He then needs to assert His authority. We can be declared as reigning with Him, but do not do so until AFTER He has asserted His place, and then we can assert ours.

  5. #20

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I don't disagree with this. What begs the question then, when did they do these things? It can't be during the thousand years though. satan is in the pit at the time. It therefore has to either be before the thousand years or after the thousand years. As to the beast in Rev 13, the timing of that also can't be during the thousand years because satan is the one who gives the beast it's power, thus satan can't be bound when he does that. Unfortunately then most non Premils, so maybe not all non Premils though, typically disregard chronology when it comes to determining these kind of things.
    The question isn't when does it happen. The question is how does it happen.

    In Christ, our perception of time and the world around us changes. For instance,

    For our light affliction, which is but for a moment
    2Cor.4:17

    Isn't perceived as light or for a moment by people who don't know the Lord, but to us in Christ it is.

    And how reigning with Christ, or the binding and loosing of Satan, or the pit, or the beast, is no different. All these things can be seen from an earthly of heavenly view. For instance,

    And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea<---->The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit Rev.13:1, 17:8

    Does John mean the sea is a hole that has no end?

    Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.<---->And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
    Lk.10:19, Acts 12:2

    How can people who can't be hurt be killed?

    No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. Mk.3:27

    How can Satan be bound by Jesus, be plundered by Jesus, harass Jesus, kill Jesus and be defeated by Jesus at the same time?

    I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them<---->And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.an.7:21, Rev.12:11

    How can the beast defeat believers by killing them, while believers defeat the beast by being killed?

    The answer is in how what is happening is being perceived. Can you see what I'm saying? Is there any point in going on with this?

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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    The question isn't when does it happen. The question is how does it happen.

    In Christ, our perception of time and the world around us changes. For instance,

    For our light affliction, which is but for a moment
    2Cor.4:17

    Isn't perceived as light or for a moment by people who don't know the Lord, but to us in Christ it is.

    And how reigning with Christ, or the binding and loosing of Satan, or the pit, or the beast, is no different. All these things can be seen from an earthly of heavenly view. For instance,

    And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea<---->The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit Rev.13:1, 17:8

    Does John mean the sea is a hole that has no end?

    Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.<---->And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
    Lk.10:19, Acts 12:2

    How can people who can't be hurt be killed?

    No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. Mk.3:27

    How can Satan be bound by Jesus, be plundered by Jesus, harass Jesus, kill Jesus and be defeated by Jesus at the same time?

    I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them<---->And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.an.7:21, Rev.12:11

    How can the beast defeat believers by killing them, while believers defeat the beast by being killed?

    The answer is in how what is happening is being perceived. Can you see what I'm saying? Is there any point in going on with this?
    Wow fantastic post this is how we can reign now on this earth thanks. People need to start seeing things in Gods ways not our earthly ways

  7. #22
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    No the REASON we reign is NOT because Satan is bound. We reign because that is the promise of God.
    They are seen as the same time because they are put together in one vision with 1K as the heart of it.
    Also this is a specific period of time whilst other prophecies of the OT are fulfilled.
    But isn't it a time of peace because satan is bound?

    This is NOT stated as an EXCLUSIVE group. It doesn't say ONLY those who are martyred are resurrected. Instead it is an incentive for those who are facing martyrdom that God's knows and will reward them. We won't all reign over cities (I don't think), but have various roles based on how we responded to Him in our lives.
    So it is literal at times but not others when it is convenient?

    What about the ones persecuted but not martyred like John?

  8. #23
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Because 1,000 years is an exact figure so we want to take it as exactly that, but there is no requirement for it to be EXACTLY 1,000 years to the day, hour, minute and second.
    You can't have it both ways as amils are saying the same thing

    The end at approximately the same time. Within a year's period it would seem.
    Where is your scripture for that? It says a short while that could be any timeline for God

  9. #24
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    The question isn't when does it happen. The question is how does it happen.

    In Christ, our perception of time and the world around us changes. For instance,

    For our light affliction, which is but for a moment
    2Cor.4:17

    Isn't perceived as light or for a moment by people who don't know the Lord, but to us in Christ it is.
    Actually incorrect. It is perceived as light in the view of eternity.
    Christians who go through this, and who are certainly in Christ do not find it light whilst experiencing it.

    And how reigning with Christ, or the binding and loosing of Satan, or the pit, or the beast, is no different. All these things can be seen from an earthly of heavenly view. For instance,
    And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea<---->The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit Rev.13:1, 17:8
    Does John mean the sea is a hole that has no end?
    An irrelevancy. What you are trying to argue is that because one thing is symbolic, so the other is also. Yet there is no problem with the binding of Satan being a symbol. Yet that symbol, like the vision of the beast, is of a REALITY.
    When the Beats rises, he is coming from a place which is NOT of here.
    When Satan is bound and placed in the pit, it is also NOT of here.

    Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.<---->And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
    Lk.10:19, Acts 12:2
    How can people who can't be hurt be killed?
    And? What is the relevancy?

    No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. Mk.3:27
    How can Satan be bound by Jesus, be plundered by Jesus, harass Jesus, kill Jesus and be defeated by Jesus at the same time?
    More irrelevancy which aren't even logical as a question.

    I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them<---->And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.an.7:21, Rev.12:11
    How can the beast defeat believers by killing them, while believers defeat the beast by being killed?
    They don't and they can't. Rev 12:11 happens BEFORE Rev 13:7

    The answer is in how what is happening is being perceived. Can you see what I'm saying? Is there any point in going on with this?
    I can see that you think it is only a question of perception. It isn't. It is actually a question of REALITY.
    You see Satan is NOT presently bound, so whether you perceive it that way or not, he continues to roam around as a roaring lion. This simply means your perception is wrong.

  10. #25
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But isn't it a time of peace because satan is bound?
    No. It is a time of peace because Jesus reigns.

    So it is literal at times but not others when it is convenient?
    What about the ones persecuted but not martyred like John?
    I didn't say literal, I said EXCLUSIVE.
    In Matthew 28:5 it only mentions one angel, but in Luke 24:4 there are two.
    So your argument is saying that only one of these two accounts is correct. Yet we know BOTH are correct. Matthew is not making an EXCLUSIVE statement. He did NOT say there was ONLY one angel.
    So too that Rev 20:4 is NOT an EXCLUSIVE statement. It does not say that ONLY those who were martyred are raised form the dead. Rather it is a SPECIFIC statement in relation to the Great Tribulation that has been experienced and the many martyrs there will be.

  11. #26
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    You can't have it both ways as amils are saying the same thing
    When God says 1,000 years. God is NOT saying 1,000 years to the exact second, He is saying 1,000 years.
    If someone says "How old are you?" You may reply "Twenty one". Now normally that does not mean it is your birthday, but means 21 years have passed since your birth.

    Where is your scripture for that? It says a short while that could be any timeline for God
    A short while could be any timeline, but as the two are related so we seem to have a limit, which is dependent on the granularity of what God means when He says "a thousand years".
    That is the scripture we have to go on, so we need to accept it as stated. The EXACTNESS is not important, but the relationship and connectedness is.

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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Wow fantastic post this is how we can reign now on this earth thanks. People need to start seeing things in Gods ways not our earthly ways
    People should always seek to see things as God sees them. However we are not reigning now on earth. God has NOT said we have ALREADY inherited.

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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    short while could be any timeline, but as the two are related so we seem to have a limit, which is dependent on the granularity of what God means when He says "a thousand years".That is the scripture we have to go on, so we need to accept it as stated. The EXACTNESS is not important, but the relationship and connectedness is.
    Exactly and that's what I say but I'm am always being told "no it says 1000 years so it is a 1000 years"

  14. #29
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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    I didn't say literal, I said EXCLUSIVE.
    In Matthew 28:5 it only mentions one angel, but in Luke 24:4 there are two.
    So your argument is saying that only one of these two accounts is correct. Yet we know BOTH are correct. Matthew is not making an EXCLUSIVE statement. He did NOT say there was ONLY one angel.
    So too that Rev 20:4 is NOT an EXCLUSIVE statement. It does not say that ONLY those who were martyred are raised form the dead. Rather it is a SPECIFIC statement in relation to the Great Tribulation that has been experienced and the many martyrs there will be.
    Agreed and that has always been my point it isn't exclusive for the martyred ones of the beast or even the martyred ones yet I seam to always be told that it is and that I am wrong.

    This has always been my view of revelation as it was written to 7 churches of a soon coming persecution. Revelation was written to them not us so we need to read it standing in the shoes of the people that it was written to not from our point of view. Revelation was also written for us but not to us.

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    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    When God says 1,000 years. God is NOT saying 1,000 years to the exact second, He is saying 1,000 years.
    If someone says "How old are you?" You may reply "Twenty one". Now normally that does not mean it is your birthday, but means 21 years have passed since your birth.
    What you stated here confirms my point that the binding and the reigning don't start and end at the same times

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