Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 95

Thread: What and when is the thousand years?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    4,519
    Blog Entries
    2

    What and when is the thousand years?


    This is a study I did a few years ago it looks longer than it is

    Introduction

    There is a popular belief within the church that Christians in the future will reign with Jesus for 1000 years of peace upon the earth because satan is bound. Is this biblical? Does the bible actually say that? If this is true there are so many unanswered questions and assumptions, for example…

    Does the 1000 year binding of satan and the 1000 year reign of the saints start and end at the same times?

    If Jesus is living on the earth during the 1000 years, why is it not mentioned anywhere in the Bible including in the book of Revelation.

    Where does Jesus go when satan is released?

    Why do so many people turn against Jesus when satan is released?

    Wouldn’t this mean that Jesus reign failed as at the end of his 1000 year earthly reign millions of people turn against him within a short period of time?

    There are many more questions but we first need to investigate what the reigning and binding actually are and when they happen to get to those answers.

    Are the time lines of each 1000 years the same?
    Revelation chapter 20 does not mention Jesus living on the earth or even that it is a time of peace. These assumptions are added to the text because people don’t understand what the reigning and binding are. Is the reigning only because of the binding of satan? If so we must see if both timelines match up.

    The 1000 year binding
    Satan’s binding for 1000 years starts in Revelation chapter 20:2
    2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

    Satan’s 1000 year binding ends in verse 7.
    7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

    The 1000 year reign starts in verse 4
    4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years

    The 1000 year reign ends in verse 12
    . 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

    We know that the reign ends here in verse 12 because verse 5 tells us
    5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection

    These are not the same timelines they don’t match up. Satan is released from his binding just before he deceives the nations again and makes his last attempt to wipe out the church before being cast into hell. The reign ends on the judgment day when the rest of the dead comes back to life (see verse 5 above) which is after satan is finally dealt with by God. We clearly see here that the reigning isn’t because of the binding of satan because they are not the same timelines.

    What is the binding of Satan?
    The bible only says that Satan is bound from deceiving the nations it doesn’t say he is bound from doing any evil. I believe that Satan is bound spiritually by the power of the Holy Spirit from deceiving the nations because of the proclamation of the gospel to the world .When people hear who Jesus is and what He did for them through the gospel and accept Jesus as their savior the Holy Spirit enters them.
    When the day of Pentecost came, the church grew at a great rapid speed for hundreds of years and millions of people were saved from all of the nations. Paul stated more than once that the gospel was spread throughout the whole earth during his time which was only about 20 to 30 years after the day of Pentecost. Doesn’t that sound like satan was bound from deceiving the nations as he was losing ground?

    2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 tells us that Satan’s power is held back during Paul’s time.

    6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

    I believe that Satan was bound on the day of Pentecost as the Holy Spirit came into the world through the saints. Jesus now reigns over heaven and earth as satan was cast out of heaven. The nations would now learn that they are co heirs with Israel, we are all one body in Christ.

    Revelation 12:10-12

    10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
    “Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
    For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.
    11 They triumphed over him
    by the blood of the Lamb
    and by the word of their testimony;
    they did not love their lives so much
    as to shrink from death.
    12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
    and you who dwell in them!
    But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
    He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short.”

    Satan can no longer accuse us before the throne because Christ has made us perfect

    Hebrews 10:14
    For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

    In Luke 4:5-6 Satan declares that the nations are his. This was before the death and resurrection of Jesus
    .
    5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.

    The nations of the world had not heard about Jesus until the gospel was spread by the apostles. Now they can choose not to be deceived by Satan anymore because the gospel was preached to the whole world.

    We are told that the gospel is preached to the whole world in Colossians 1:23

    23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

    Titus 3:3-7 shows us that we were once deceived but now the Holy Spirit has saved us.

    3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

    Colossians 1:24-27

    24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people.

    Paul states above that a great mystery has been revealed which is Christ in us. This mystery was hidden for ages and generations but now satan is bound from deceiving us if we choose because of the gospel which reveals this mystery.

    Ephesians 3:2-11
    2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

    7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord

    In Ephesians 3:1-11 Paul teaches us that he is to reveal a mystery that was kept from past generations which is that the gentile nations are also heirs together with Israel. This mystery was revealed by the Holy Spirit through the gospel. It was hidden in the past ages but now it is to be made known to the rulers and authorities of the heavenly realms.

    Matthew 16:15-20
    15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
    17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hades] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

    In Matthew 16:15-20 Peter declares that Jesus is the Christ the son of God. Jesus then tells Peter that He will build His on church on Himself and hell will not overcome it. Peter is given the keys to heaven and told that whatever he binds or loosed on earth will also be bound and loosed in heaven. The church also has this same power we have the same Holy Spirit. This shows us that the binding is spiritual and so is the loosened from our sins. I think this shows us that the great chain in Revelation 20:1 is the power of the Holy Spirit through the spreading of the gospel through the church.

    The 1000 year reign of the saints

    I believe that the 1000 year reign starts as each individual Christian dies and it is not limited to the ones who were beheaded. If we take the 1000 year reign literally in Revelation chapter 20 then only the saints beheaded will come back to life and reign. Stephen the first martyr would not come back to life and reign because he was stoned to death either would Peter who was crucified. John, who this vision was given to, would not reign either as we believe that he died of natural causes but Paul would come back to life and reign because he was beheaded. The literal interpretation would not make sense in this case.

    I believe that this resurrection in Revelation chapter 20 shows us that we will reign with Jesus after death and it was given to encourage the church.

    When are we resurrected?

    I believe that we are spiritually resurrected when we accept Jesus as our savior and also resurrected when we die as Christians as Paul taught below in

    Romans 6:3-13
    3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

    5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin

    8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

    11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.

    Paul also taught us that we are already alive with Christ in the first spiritual resurrection even when we were dead in sin and that we have been (past tense) raised up with Christ in

    Ephesians 2:4-6
    4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

    The bible and Jesus taught that we are alive right after we die.

    Luke 23:43
    Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

    2 Corinthians 5:8
    We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

    Matthew 22:32
    I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

    John 11:21-26
    21 “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.”
    23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
    24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
    25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

    John 5:21-25
    21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
    24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal lifeand will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

    Some people were physically reserected around the time of Jesus death and reserection

    Matthew 27:51-53
    51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

    With these examples above how could the beheaded ones in Revelation 20:4 come to back to life at the same time? We die at different times. I believe that the verses which I quoted above prove that a literal interpretation in revelation chapter 20 in wrong.

    The rest of the dead
    I believe that the rest of the dead are the ones who died and didn’t accept Jesus as there savior. They are the ones before the throne who came back to life after the 1000 year reign.

    Is 1000 years literally a 1000 years in Revelation chapter 20?
    Many times in the bible 1000 is not literally 1000 but means many. Here are some examples.

    Exodus 20:6
    but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments

    Psalms 50:10
    for every animal of the forest is mine,
    and the cattle on a thousand hills.

    Deuteronomy 1:11

    May the Lord, the God of your ancestors, increase you a thousand times and bless you as he has promised!

    2 Peter 3:8

    8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day

    Is Jesus living on the earth in during the 1000 year reign?
    Revelation chapter 20 doesn’t actually say that Jesus is living on the earth with us, could Jesus live on our earth in all his glory?

    1 kings 8:27
    27 “But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee; how much less this house that I have built?

    If Jesus was living on the earth where is He when satan is released? It says that Satan surrounds the camp of His people not that satan surrounds Jesus and the camp of His people.
    If Jesus was on the earth but not when the camp is surrounded by satans people when did He ascend back up to heaven? Would a second ascension of Jesus be missed in the bible? Wouldn’t that seem like Jesus abandoned His people? If the people satan deceives when he is released is numbered like the sand on the sea shore why would so many people turn on Jesus when this happens? That would seem like a failed physical reigning.

    These unanswered questions and the absence of Jesus being on the earth in Revelation chapter 20 is one reason that I don’t believe Jesus has a literal 1000 year reign on the earth.

    Peace on the earth
    Although the word peace is absent from Revelation chapter 20 a lot of Christians believe that there will be 1000 years of peace upon the earth because of times described in the old testament like

    Isaiah 11:6-9
    6 The wolf will live with the lamb,
    the leopard will lie down with the goat,
    the calf and the lion and the yearling[a] together;
    and a little child will lead them.
    7 The cow will feed with the bear,
    their young will lie down together,
    and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
    8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
    and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
    9 They will neither harm nor destroy
    on all my holy mountain,
    for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord
    as the waters cover the sea.

    And
    Isaiah 65:25
    The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
    and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
    and dust will be the serpent’s food.
    They will neither harm nor destroy
    on all my holy mountain,”
    says the Lord.

    At first this could describe peace in the literal sense but if we look into the proper meaning of this, we will get the true interpretation of these scriptures.

    When you read the entire chapter of Isaiah 11 you will see that the entire chapter is talking about Jesus and the first advent. But when did these animals live peacefully with each other?

    To find the answer we need to understand the meaning of the animals and we can look to Jeremiah talking about Israel’s enemies.

    Jeremiah 5:6
    Therefore a lion from the forest will attack them,
    a wolf from the desert will ravage them,
    a leopard will lie in wait near their towns
    to tear to pieces any who venture out,
    for their rebellion is great
    and their backslidings many.

    Israel’s enemies are described as Lions, leopards and wolves. Israel is always described as a clean animal and we see above in Isaiah 65 that the clean animals and the unclean animals live peacefully together also unclean animals live with other unclean animals.

    Paul confirms that Jesus’ time was the times of Isaiah 11 in

    Romans 15:12
    12 And again, Isaiah says,
    “The Root of Jesse will spring up,
    one who will arise to rule over the nations;
    in him the Gentiles will hope.”

    Since Isaiah chapter 11 was the time of Jesus’ first coming we now see that He brought the clean and the unclean animals together as the gospel went out to all the nations. In Acts chapter 10 we see what Peter was told to do

    Acts 10:11-15
    11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
    14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
    15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

    We see here that God removed the barriers and the gospel was to be shared with the gentiles they would not be deceived anymore the lion now lay with the lamb. This is the time of true peace when the rock cut out of the mountain in Daniel chapter 2 would now fill the whole earth.

    This is not to say that there were no more wars we know from history that there has always been wars but there is true inner peace and now all nations can live as one true church from every nation which is referred to in,,,

    Revelation 5:9
    9 And they sang a new song, saying:
    “You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
    because you were slain,
    and with your blood you purchased for God
    persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

    And Revelation 7:9
    9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

    Many Christians believe that Isaiah chapter 65 speaks of the time of peace on the earth I believe that this is a mistake. Isaiah 65 speaks of the times when the Lord was angry with the Jewish nation and then the gentile nations were brought into the church during the first century as they were blended in with the believing Jews.

    Isaiah 65 also mentions God blessing the believing gentiles and judging the unbelieving Jews which I believe to of happened in the year 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

    Isaiah 65 then goes on to say that what was taken away from the unbelieving Jews will not be taken away from the church and that we will have everlasting life as the Wolfe (gentiles) now lies with the lamb (Jews). They will feed together they will live in peace as one body in Christ within the church.

    When the angle announced in
    Luke 2:14
    Glory to God in the highest heaven,
    and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

    He wasn’t talking about no more wars but the true inner peace that Jesus brings us.

    Future temple and sacrifices
    Some Christians believe that there will be a future temple and a sin sacrifice during the 1000 years and believe that it was taught in the Old Testament is this biblical?

    Hebrews 10:18
    18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

    Hebrews 7:27
    27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

    Paul states above that there is no more need for a temple or sacrifices. Jesus has paid the price once and for all. A future sin sacrifice would be a rejection of Jesus and all what He has done.

    Satan’s release
    When will satan be released and when may be the time that the earth will be destroyed?

    The Holy Spirit works through the church but the church needs to be actively doing God’s work. In the book of Geneses we see how the faithful due to conforming to the unfaithful, reduced over time to just one person Noah. That was when God destroyed the earth with the flood. Two thousand years ago the church grew at an amazing speed and reached the whole earth but now the percentage of Christians seems to be dwindling over the last 100 or so years, as some of the church seems to be conforming to the ways of the world. The conforming of the faithful was the only time God destroyed the world, back in Noah’s day. It would seem to be the same reason that God will destroy the world by fire in the future.

    I don’t believe that God will destroy the world just because it’s so evil, it has always been evil, even now over one million babies are aborted each year by their parents for selfish reasons. I think that alone would be enough evil for God to destroy the world. I believe God will destroy the world when the number of people to be saved has been completed and the church is reduced in numbers like we see is happening today. People are having fewer children these days, including Christians, which leads to less people learning about God. In the past century or so, in what was thought to be Christian nations, most people went to church but in our time, it is about 20% and getting lower as years go by.

    I believe that we may be in the time of satan’s release, the little season, as we are being out numbered and satan’s people seems to be surrounding us, the city God loves. The church only grows when the Holy Spirit moves in the actions of His people, that is still happening today but on a smaller scale. Many Christians are conforming to the ways of the world and have become complacent in their busy lives. Could we be allowing satan to gain ground in our world? We need to study more and know our bibles better so we can share it with the people in our lives because it reveals God’s message to the world. We need to keep praying for opportunities to share the gospel with the unsaved people that God places in our lives.

    Summary
    I believe that the scriptures prove that we are in the 1000 year reign now and that we could be in the time of satans release, his little season. I believe that satan has been bound from deceiving the nations since the day of Pentecost. What would be the reason for a literal 1000 year reign on the earth with a binding of satan only to have him be released to rec havoc on the earth again? There is no purpose for it as it doesn’t seem to line up with the message of the bible which is the promise of salvation to all who believe in Christ Jesus as there lord and savior.

    Not once in the New Testament did Jesus nor any of the apostles teach that Jesus will reign literally on the earth for 1000 years in a time of peace.

  2. #2

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    I believe the following two passages correlate, timewise (starting at His Second Coming to the earth):

    --Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5

    [correlates with]

    --Isaiah 24:21-22[23] with its TWO "PUNISH" words separated by [and related time-wise to] the phrase "and AFTER MANY DAYS" [Amill-teaching has NO further "days" following His Second Coming to the earth, as is here shown to be!]; this also correlates [time-wise] with Daniel 7:27 [which follows the specific day-amounts of v.25], which states "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven..." (not "UP IN Heaven"), and again, this follows the specific day-amounts given in the text (which context altogether parallels Rev13's; compare Dan7:20-21,25 with that of Rev13:5-7)


    So, I believe both (or all 3) of these align perfectly with what Jesus Himself referred to repeatedly and in a number of different ways (phrases) about what will take place upon His return to the earth... His Olivet Discourse was almost ENTIRELY about that subject (and what immediately precedes it / leads UP TO it), every mention of "the kingdom of the heavens" and "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" spoke to that, His two mentions of "RETURN" (their contexts), His Matthew 13 parables were about this (when the angels will "REAP" and the WHEAT harvest to "My barn" [the earthly MK]), the "G347 - shall sit down [denoting, 'around a table'/'at a meal']" passages speak of it, the "12 shall sit on 12 thrones judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" pertains to this... The passages are numerous and abundant where Jesus spoke (in His earthly ministry) of the subject of their "promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom" (which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,601
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Just tried to follow your reasoning about the 1,000 years not being a thousand years. Couldn't see any logic in what you stated.
    You seem to require every prophecy to mention every thing.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    4,519
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Just tried to follow your reasoning about the 1,000 years not being a thousand years. Couldn't see any logic in what you stated.
    You seem to require every prophecy to mention every thing.
    Not sure what you mean here

    What about the scriptures which seam to confirm my points?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,826

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Not sure what you mean here

    What about the scriptures which seam to confirm my points?
    I agree with FHG about there being no logic to some of your conclusions in the OP.

    There is only one 1000 year period and that the text plainly and clearly tells us when it begins and when it ends. And once it ends it can't still also be ongoing, that is a contradiction. That would be like saying when Friday ends and that it is now Saturday, it is still also Friday. No logic to that.

    When it begins...Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    When it ends...Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


    The thousand years begin with the binding of satan and the first resurrection of the saints. The thousand years end when satan is loosed from the bottomless pit. This also indicates the reigning with Christ a thousand years are over as well. What I tend to think the latter means though, it is the manner in which they had been reigning with Christ that ends. As in they would no longer be co-ruling with a rod of iron at this point(Revelation 2:26-27). Why? In order to test those that have been living during the thousand years. Meaning the ones who end up coming up against the camp of the saints and the holy city.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    4,519
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I agree with FHG about there being no logic to some of your conclusions in the OP.

    There is only one 1000 year period and that the text plainly and clearly tells us when it begins and when it ends. And once it ends it can't still also be ongoing, that is a contradiction. That would be like saying when Friday ends and that it is now Saturday, it is still also Friday. No logic to that.

    When it begins...Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    When it ends...Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


    The thousand years begin with the binding of satan and the first resurrection of the saints. The thousand years end when satan is loosed from the bottomless pit. This also indicates the reigning with Christ a thousand years are over as well. What I tend to think the latter means though, it is the manner in which they had been reigning with Christ that ends. As in they would no longer be co-ruling with a rod of iron at this point(Revelation 2:26-27). Why? In order to test those that have been living during the thousand years. Meaning the ones who end up coming up against the camp of the saints and the holy city.
    Actually the context is quite clear.

    The binding is the context from verse 1 too verse 3.

    The reigning is the context from verse 3 too verse 6.

    Verse 7 too verse 10 takes us back to the binding.

    Verse 12 then refers back to verse 5 and the reigning is the context.

    They are two separate time periods I don't understand why people can't see this why would they have to go together?

    Satan is released to attack the church and the reigning continues until Jesus comes back

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,601
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Not sure what you mean here
    What about the scriptures which seam to confirm my points?
    I couldn't follow what scriptures was meant to be showing what logic or point.
    Perhaps if I put how I think you are arguing or saying and how I see it also?:

    Rev 20:1* Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.*
    Rev 20:2* And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,*
    Rev 20:3* and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

    Here we have a period of 1,000 years.
    It starts with the angel seizing Satan and binding him and then throwing him into the bottomless pit.
    We then have 1,000 years.
    It ends with Satan being released for a little while.

    Rev 20:4* Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.*
    Rev 20:5* The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.*
    Rev 20:6* Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.*

    Here we have an event which may be in parallel with verse 1 and 2.
    It speaks of a resurrection from the dead and a period of 1,000 years.
    It starts with the resurrection.
    It lasts 1,000 years with reigning with Christ - the MK.
    It ends after the 1,000 years.

    Now here is possible where the confusion comes in:
    Rev 20:7* And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
    Rev 20:8* and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
    Rev 20:9* And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
    Rev 20:10* and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    This clearly refers to the 1,000 years ending of Satan being in the pit. However it is written after verse 6 so some may take it to mean after the 1,000 year reign.
    Now you could have the 1,000 years matching up to the EXACT day, so day 1 of Satan incarcerated is day 1 of the MK. This then leads to the end of the 1,000 year incarceration, and therefore a conclusion that the MK is also finished.

    This is a possible understanding. Another view though is that whereas Satan is incarcerated for no longer than 1,000 years, the MK might last a few months longer, so 1,000 years and 5 months and 22 days for example. This would basically mean that the MK lasts UNTIL the little while (little season) of Satan is complete.

    You see the clear termination of all this is found in the NEXT verses:
    Rev 20:11* Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.*
    Rev 20:12* And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.*
    Rev 20:13* And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.*
    Rev 20:14* Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.*
    Rev 20:15* And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    This is the END of the MK, but it is NOT the end of Jesus' reign, nor of His Kingdom. His Kingdom was assaulted by Satan but won the final battle, and with it the war is now come to an end and judgement ensues.
    Whether these saints reign while Satan is deceiving the nations and gathering them for battle is rather irrelevant.

    So very easily we have an MK which fits with the period of Satan being bound.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,826

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Another view though is that whereas Satan is incarcerated for no longer than 1,000 years, the MK might last a few months longer, so 1,000 years and 5 months and 22 days for example. This would basically mean that the MK lasts UNTIL the little while (little season) of Satan is complete.

    You see the clear termination of all this is found in the NEXT verses:
    Rev 20:11* Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.*
    Rev 20:12* And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.*
    Rev 20:13* And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.*
    Rev 20:14* Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.*
    Rev 20:15* And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    This is the END of the MK, but it is NOT the end of Jesus' reign, nor of His Kingdom. His Kingdom was assaulted by Satan but won the final battle, and with it the war is now come to an end and judgement ensues.
    Whether these saints reign while Satan is deceiving the nations and gathering them for battle is rather irrelevant.

    So very easily we have an MK which fits with the period of Satan being bound.

    This appears to be pretty much Marty's take on these things. I thought you indicated that you weren't following his logic? This indicates there are two, and not one, period of a thousand years. Yet the text indicates there is only one period of a thousand years and even shows when it begins and when it ends.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,601
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    This appears to be pretty much Marty's take on these things. I thought you indicated that you weren't following his logic? This indicates there are two, and not one, period of a thousand years. Yet the text indicates there is only one period of a thousand years and even shows when it begins and when it ends.
    What I have highlighted is that there are TWO periods of 1,000 years stated.
    What we have to do is see if they are covering the SAME period of time or different.
    I then (thought I) showed that one ends with the release of Satan and the other ends by the time of the defeat of Satan which points to a comparable period of time. This puts them into the same overlapping period of 1,000 years. There may be a few months difference, but that is pretty much irrelevant.
    Both have ended when Satan is defeated for the final time.
    I thought I comprehensively went through it verse by verse, so there is a little bit of leeway in how to understand it.

    I have not said that they are two completely separate periods of time, but overlapping.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    4,519
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I couldn't follow what scriptures was meant to be showing what logic or point.
    Perhaps if I put how I think you are arguing or saying and how I see it also?:

    Rev 20:1* Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.*
    Rev 20:2* And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,*
    Rev 20:3* and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.

    Here we have a period of 1,000 years.
    It starts with the angel seizing Satan and binding him and then throwing him into the bottomless pit.
    We then have 1,000 years.
    It ends with Satan being released for a little while.

    Rev 20:4* Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.*
    Rev 20:5* The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.*
    Rev 20:6* Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.*

    Here we have an event which may be in parallel with verse 1 and 2.
    It speaks of a resurrection from the dead and a period of 1,000 years.
    It starts with the resurrection.
    It lasts 1,000 years with reigning with Christ - the MK.
    It ends after the 1,000 years.

    Now here is possible where the confusion comes in:
    Rev 20:7* And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
    Rev 20:8* and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.
    Rev 20:9* And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,
    Rev 20:10* and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

    This clearly refers to the 1,000 years ending of Satan being in the pit. However it is written after verse 6 so some may take it to mean after the 1,000 year reign.
    Now you could have the 1,000 years matching up to the EXACT day, so day 1 of Satan incarcerated is day 1 of the MK. This then leads to the end of the 1,000 year incarceration, and therefore a conclusion that the MK is also finished.

    This is a possible understanding. Another view though is that whereas Satan is incarcerated for no longer than 1,000 years, the MK might last a few months longer, so 1,000 years and 5 months and 22 days for example. This would basically mean that the MK lasts UNTIL the little while (little season) of Satan is complete.

    You see the clear termination of all this is found in the NEXT verses:
    Rev 20:11* Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.*
    Rev 20:12* And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.*
    Rev 20:13* And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.*
    Rev 20:14* Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.*
    Rev 20:15* And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

    This is the END of the MK, but it is NOT the end of Jesus' reign, nor of His Kingdom. His Kingdom was assaulted by Satan but won the final battle, and with it the war is now come to an end and judgement ensues.
    Whether these saints reign while Satan is deceiving the nations and gathering them for battle is rather irrelevant.

    So very easily we have an MK which fits with the period of Satan being bound.
    But isn't the reigning with Jesus because satan is bound? Isn't that suppose to be the reason we reign? If not why do they seam to be at the same time?

    I do think that we still reign with Jesus after satans release

    It starts with the resurrection
    If literal this can't be the resurrection as it is only for the ones who were beheaded by the beast.

    What about all of the other martyred saints?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,826

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    What I have highlighted is that there are TWO periods of 1,000 years stated.
    What we have to do is see if they are covering the SAME period of time or different.
    I then (thought I) showed that one ends with the release of Satan and the other ends by the time of the defeat of Satan which points to a comparable period of time. This puts them into the same overlapping period of 1,000 years. There may be a few months difference, but that is pretty much irrelevant.
    Both have ended when Satan is defeated for the final time.
    I thought I comprehensively went through it verse by verse, so there is a little bit of leeway in how to understand it.

    I have not said that they are two completely separate periods of time, but overlapping.
    But if the thousand years start at roughly the same time though, give or take a day or two, how can it then not end at the same time as well? Does it really make sense that satan would be bound before the time of the first resurrection? Does not the first resurrection involve the dead in Christ who rise first? Doesn't that event precede Jesus and His army confronting the beast and it's armies? Until these things happen first, satan can't yet be bound, right?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    17,826

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post

    I do think that we still reign with Jesus after satans release


    I'm not certain if you read a post of mine addressed to you yet, one I posted on another thread? What I said in that post seems relevant here as well. Here's what I said in that post then.



    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    As to reigning with Christ a thousand years. IMO it's the manner in which they have been reigning that ends. Even Christ at some point has to end the manner in which He had been reigning, unless one doesn't want to agree with and believe what 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 indicates. This doesn't mean Christ no longer reigns after this then. It means He no longer reigns in this manner, as in He has no reason to judge anyone after this because the GWTJ would now be in the past. No more wicked people on the earth at that point.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    4,519
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I'm not certain if you read a post of mine addressed to you yet, one I posted on another thread? What I said in that post seems relevant here as well. Here's what I said in that post then.
    I believe that we reign with Christ until the second coming at the end of our world right before the GWTJ

  14. #14

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    I believe Rev.20:4 shows how the followers of Jesus reigned on earth.

    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev.12:11

    Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Rom.8:37

    For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 1Jn.5:4

    To conquer principalities and powers is to reign over them and this occurs before we die.

  15. #15

    Re: What and when is the thousand years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I believe that we reign with Christ until the second coming at the end of our world right before the GWTJ
    So do I. The judgment seat of Christ is going to reveal who the strong really were on earth.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. If a Day is as a Thousand Years
    By Partaker of Christ in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: Jul 27th 2011, 12:19 AM
  2. The Thousand Years
    By markedward in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: Jun 6th 2010, 09:24 PM
  3. We are not in the thousand years.
    By vinsight4u8 in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Nov 20th 2009, 11:57 PM
  4. End of the Thousand years
    By Beckrl in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: Aug 8th 2009, 11:39 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •