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Thread: The Grreat Commission warning

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    The Grreat Commission warning

    Following is a portion of the Olivet Discourse from the 3 synoptic gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke. They refer to the proclamation of Christ's Gospel, which at that time had been limited to Israel. But now it apparently was to go out to the whole word, not just because Jews had been scattered out among the nations in the diaspora, but also because the Gospel was going to be given to the Gentile nations, as well.

    Often it is thought that this proclamation of an international Gospel was to be the measure of time leading to Christ's Coming and the end of the age. But it was more than that. It was a clear mandate to expand the gospel from Israel to other nations. It was to be a universal application of the Gospel, and not just a 2000 year effort to reach every person in the world. The focus was more on the immediate applicability of the Gospel to all nations, rather than an age-long effort to reach the world with the good news.

    Even more, this was a message styled after the ministry of Jonah, who did not bring good news to Nineveh, but rather, was sent to warn that city of imminent judgment. In the same way, Jesus was sending his apostles out to warn the world of approaching judgment, not just for Israel but for all nations, who would not respond to the warnings contained in the Gospel.

    How do I know this? One, Jonah was sent out with a warning to a wicked civilization. And the Gentile nations, to whom Jesus sent his apostles, were likewise wicked and pagan. The Gospel was designed to warn them that this wickedness, if continued, would lead to judgment, just as it would happen to Israel in 70 AD.

    Secondly, consider the context of these gospel versions, and you will notice that the nations are viewed as guilty of persecuting God's apostles. Not only would Jews persecute Jesus' disciples, but foreign nations would do the same. The Gospel they preached provided a means of repentance, should they be willing to participate in it, just as Nineveh did.

    Matt 24.9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    Mark 13.9 You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.

    Luke 21.12 But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13 And so you will bear testimony to me. 14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

    So, you see that the Gospel was a message of judgment, repentance, and salvation. If salvation and repentance were rejected, judgment would follow.

    And this judgment could take place at any time in a nation's history, when the sins were filled up. Israel's sin were full in the time of Christ, and their nation was destroyed within a generation. Roman civilization suffered a mortal wound in 476 AD, even though many in that civilization had become Christians. There was still serious corruption in the Empire.

    And for the nations that have risen in history, the same fate awaits, when nations fail to take heed to the Gospel. But there is clearly an end date for this process of the Gospel, and that is at the Coming of Christ. That is when opportunity to repent for nations in the present age will come to an end.

    If you see this differently, let me know?

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Following is a portion of the Olivet Discourse from the 3 synoptic gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke. They refer to the proclamation of Christ's Gospel, which at that time had been limited to Israel. But now it apparently was to go out to the whole word, not just because Jews had been scattered out among the nations in the diaspora, but also because the Gospel was going to be given to the Gentile nations, as well.

    Often it is thought that this proclamation of an international Gospel was to be the measure of time leading to Christ's Coming and the end of the age. But it was more than that. It was a clear mandate to expand the gospel from Israel to other nations. It was to be a universal application of the Gospel, and not just a 2000 year effort to reach every person in the world. The focus was more on the immediate applicability of the Gospel to all nations, rather than an age-long effort to reach the world with the good news.

    Even more, this was a message styled after the ministry of Jonah, who did not bring good news to Nineveh, but rather, was sent to warn that city of imminent judgment. In the same way, Jesus was sending his apostles out to warn the world of approaching judgment, not just for Israel but for all nations, who would not respond to the warnings contained in the Gospel.

    How do I know this? One, Jonah was sent out with a warning to a wicked civilization. And the Gentile nations, to whom Jesus sent his apostles, were likewise wicked and pagan. The Gospel was designed to warn them that this wickedness, if continued, would lead to judgment, just as it would happen to Israel in 70 AD.

    Secondly, consider the context of these gospel versions, and you will notice that the nations are viewed as guilty of persecuting God's apostles. Not only would Jews persecute Jesus' disciples, but foreign nations would do the same. The Gospel they preached provided a means of repentance, should they be willing to participate in it, just as Nineveh did.

    Matt 24.9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    Mark 13.9 You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. 10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.

    Luke 21.12 But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13 And so you will bear testimony to me. 14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

    So, you see that the Gospel was a message of judgment, repentance, and salvation. If salvation and repentance were rejected, judgment would follow.

    And this judgment could take place at any time in a nation's history, when the sins were filled up. Israel's sin were full in the time of Christ, and their nation was destroyed within a generation. Roman civilization suffered a mortal wound in 476 AD, even though many in that civilization had become Christians. There was still serious corruption in the Empire.

    And for the nations that have risen in history, the same fate awaits, when nations fail to take heed to the Gospel. But there is clearly an end date for this process of the Gospel, and that is at the Coming of Christ. That is when opportunity to repent for nations in the present age will come to an end.

    If you see this differently, let me know?
    I see things a little differently. God's purpose with man was fourfold.
    1. He was to be in the image and likeness of God
    2. He was to be a subduer and ruler of this earth and its environs
    3. He was to fence about and bring to order a Separated Garden of fellowship between God and man
    4. He was to be Companion up to the standard of the Son of God to be His Bride

    The purpose of the Gospel is to announce to men that despite Adam's fall, and the present miserable set of circumstances on this earth, God has put in motion a plan to recover man to this high and glorious standing.
    1. ALL the gospels show Jesus as a worthy Substitute for putting away the main hindrance to these four above - our sin and sins
    2. John's gospel shows Jesus as Emmanuel - God with us - for getting God into man to make man God's House, and to impart God's Life so that man can be up to the standard of Jesus for both ruling and intimate companionship
    3. Matthew's gospel shows Jesus the King looking for co-kings because as seed of Abraham He will inherit the earth, and as Seed of David will be King of Israel. The REBIRTH is ASSUMED in Matthew and the KINGDOM is in the forefront.
    4. Mark's gospel shows Jesus setting the pace as God's Servant, setting aside temporal gratification for an eternal reward
    5. Luke's gospel shows that God's plan does not revolve around angels, but men
    6. Acts shows the Holy Spirit infusing Christ into men for God's House and God's purpose
    7. The Letters deal with problems inside God's House because of the flesh and religious background

    The gospel was NEVER to reform the Nations. It was to announce a NEW MAN with a NEW BIRTH having a NEW LIFE for God's ORIGINAL plan. The gospel is to declare this HIGH purpose for fallen men, and warn men of a sad ending if they refuse this GRAND RECOVERY.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I see things a little differently. God's purpose with man was fourfold.
    1. He was to be in the image and likeness of God
    2. He was to be a subduer and ruler of this earth and its environs
    3. He was to fence about and bring to order a Separated Garden of fellowship between God and man
    4. He was to be Companion up to the standard of the Son of God to be His Bride

    The purpose of the Gospel is to announce to men that despite Adam's fall, and the present miserable set of circumstances on this earth, God has put in motion a plan to recover man to this high and glorious standing.
    1. ALL the gospels show Jesus as a worthy Substitute for putting away the main hindrance to these four above - our sin and sins
    2. John's gospel shows Jesus as Emmanuel - God with us - for getting God into man to make man God's House, and to impart God's Life so that man can be up to the standard of Jesus for both ruling and intimate companionship
    3. Matthew's gospel shows Jesus the King looking for co-kings because as seed of Abraham He will inherit the earth, and as Seed of David will be King of Israel. The REBIRTH is ASSUMED in Matthew and the KINGDOM is in the forefront.
    4. Mark's gospel shows Jesus setting the pace as God's Servant, setting aside temporal gratification for an eternal reward
    5. Luke's gospel shows that God's plan does not revolve around angels, but men
    6. Acts shows the Holy Spirit infusing Christ into men for God's House and God's purpose
    7. The Letters deal with problems inside God's House because of the flesh and religious background

    The gospel was NEVER to reform the Nations. It was to announce a NEW MAN with a NEW BIRTH having a NEW LIFE for God's ORIGINAL plan. The gospel is to declare this HIGH purpose for fallen men, and warn men of a sad ending if they refuse this GRAND RECOVERY.
    So, to be clear, you do not think the Gospel was anything like Jonah's prophetic message, which was a message of judgment for the city of Nineveh?

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So, to be clear, you do not think the Gospel was anything like Jonah's prophetic message, which was a message of judgment for the city of Nineveh?
    I think Walls has a lot of things correct, but he does miss that ALONGSIDE the message of Hope and restoration, there is a background message of judgement also.

    Jonah did NOT bring a message of repentance but only of disaster. We however have a message of repentance and restoration, as well as that of disaster.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I think Walls has a lot of things correct, but he does miss that ALONGSIDE the message of Hope and restoration, there is a background message of judgement also.

    Jonah did NOT bring a message of repentance but only of disaster. We however have a message of repentance and restoration, as well as that of disaster.
    I think God intended Jonah's message of disaster to bring repentance to the people of Nineveh. It makes no difference how Jonah viewed it. He got a response he didn't immediately want.

    But yes, the fact Jonah focused on the disaster, and not on the repentance, is part of the story. Jesus, however, had a better attitude than Jonah. When he taught the coming disaster upon Jerusalem, for example, he intended to bring repentance to those who were willing to change. Even though the disaster did happen, and was not averted, I have to assume that some people accepted the apostles' message, and repented.

    I think the difference between Jonah's story and Jesus' Gospel is significant, but not essentially different. The message, from God's pov, is intended to bring mercy to those who do not appear to be worthy of it. We need to preach the gospel of judgment with an eye to bringing mercy to the wicked, if they are willing to repent.

    But the important thing here is to note that the Gospel takes place in an age of evil, when men are wicked and are in danger of judgment. We preach not just salvation to the worthy, but rather, salvation to those who are willing to repent of the evil in the world in which we live. If we don't see the evil in our world, we will not repent and will be judged along with the world.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I think God intended Jonah's message of disaster to bring repentance to the people of Nineveh. It makes no difference how Jonah viewed it. He got a response he didn't immediately want.
    As you say it makes (at first sight) little difference to how Jonah viewed. However what we are told in Jonah is that Jonah did NOT preach a message of repentance. His message was much shorter and simpler. It was "In 40 days and Nineveh will be overturned." He was told to preach against their wickedness.

    But yes, the fact Jonah focused on the disaster, and not on the repentance, is part of the story. Jesus, however, had a better attitude than Jonah. When he taught the coming disaster upon Jerusalem, for example, he intended to bring repentance to those who were willing to change. Even though the disaster did happen, and was not averted, I have to assume that some people accepted the apostles' message, and repented.
    Their was NO repentance for Jonah to focus on. Jonah knew God was a God who wants repentance, but he didn't preach about this. Jesus conversely did NOT preach about repentance in order to avoid disaster.

    I think the difference between Jonah's story and Jesus' Gospel is significant, but not essentially different. The message, from God's pov, is intended to bring mercy to those who do not appear to be worthy of it. We need to preach the gospel of judgment with an eye to bringing mercy to the wicked, if they are willing to repent.
    Judgement is NOT a Gospel. Gospel means "good news" and Judgement certainly is NOT good news.
    So in the ESSENTIAL it is COMPLETELY different.
    We are told to bring Good News, noting the reality of judgement, but with the emphasis of repentance and restoration. The judgement WILL happen, and there is no avoiding that fact, but through repentance and belief in Jesus we can avoid it.

    But the important thing here is to note that the Gospel takes place in an age of evil, when men are wicked and are in danger of judgment. We preach not just salvation to the worthy, but rather, salvation to those who are willing to repent of the evil in the world in which we live. If we don't see the evil in our world, we will not repent and will be judged along with the world.
    People have ALWAYS been wicked, just read Genesis 6 if you are unsure.
    People have ALWAYS been in danger of judgement, there has always been a Last Day when people will be judged.

    However for all we disagree about on this, I do agree that preach salvation to those who are willing to repent.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So, to be clear, you do not think the Gospel was anything like Jonah's prophetic message, which was a message of judgment for the city of Nineveh?
    I would phrase it like this. Jonah was sent to God's enemies to preach imminent judgement for their ways unless they repented. They listened and judgement was averted for a 100 years. The word "repent" means turn 180° and go that way. In this you could say that it "Good News". But two things are every prominent;
    1. Israel, who had the father's miraculous experiences and the Law and the prophets, heard this message every day and refused to repent and were destroyed
    2. Nineveh only changed their ways temporarily and then reverted back again and were destroyed

    Is this the Good News? Was anybody reformed? Was there an intrinsic change in men? And finally, both Israel and Nineveh's reprieve, or lack of it, was a matter of WORKS. They had to change their BEHAVIOR. Is this the gospel?

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    As you say it makes (at first sight) little difference to how Jonah viewed. However what we are told in Jonah is that Jonah did NOT preach a message of repentance. His message was much shorter and simpler. It was "In 40 days and Nineveh will be overturned." He was told to preach against their wickedness.
    More semantics games, huh? I could say Jonah's message was a message of repentance because it did bring repentance. Or, I could say it was not a message of repentance because it did not include a request for repentance. As I said, God intended the message of judgment, given to Jonah, to bring repentance. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    Their was NO repentance for Jonah to focus on. Jonah knew God was a God who wants repentance, but he didn't preach about this. Jesus conversely did NOT preach about repentance in order to avoid disaster.
    The point, brother, was that God had Jonah preach a message of judgment in order to elicit repentance from the Ninevites! Can't you agree on anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    Judgement is NOT a Gospel. Gospel means "good news" and Judgement certainly is NOT good news.
    That's true. However, the word "gospel" also refers to the message that Jesus brought. His message, apart from the good news, also contained an element of judgment. In fact, my argument is that a major component of Jesus' message, apart from the good news/gospel was a prediction of certain and imminent judgment for the Jewish People. This is then transferred over to Gentiles who convert to Christianity. Christian nations face the same threat if they don't repent at Jesus' message.

    Again, you are quibbling over words. I'm using the word "gospel" for "message." It is a synonym, although technically you're correct. The gospel originated with the idea of Jesus bringing good news that the Kingdom of God was imminent. It was imminent in the sense that Jesus was about to let men into the Kingdom via salvation. But there was also a message of imminent judgment for the Jewish People. Before the Kingdom of God could fully come in the eschatological sense, judgment would fall upon Israel and upon the wicked world.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    So in the ESSENTIAL it is COMPLETELY different.
    We are told to bring Good News, noting the reality of judgement, but with the emphasis of repentance and restoration. The judgement WILL happen, and there is no avoiding that fact, but through repentance and belief in Jesus we can avoid it.
    So are you completely blind to the fact we are in agreement on that? That's exactly what I've been saying, that without repentance there is only the prospect of imminent judgment. But with repentance there is salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    People have ALWAYS been wicked, just read Genesis 6 if you are unsure.
    If I'm unsure? What kind of baloney is that? Do you think I don't believe the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    People have ALWAYS been in danger of judgement, there has always been a Last Day when people will be judged.

    However for all we disagree about on this, I do agree that preach salvation to those who are willing to repent.
    I have no idea where we are disagreed on this, brother, except that you seem to try to semantically change how we are individually applying words in order to disagree with me?

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I would phrase it like this. Jonah was sent to God's enemies to preach imminent judgement for their ways unless they repented. They listened and judgement was averted for a 100 years. The word "repent" means turn 180° and go that way. In this you could say that it "Good News". But two things are every prominent;
    1. Israel, who had the father's miraculous experiences and the Law and the prophets, heard this message every day and refused to repent and were destroyed
    2. Nineveh only changed their ways temporarily and then reverted back again and were destroyed

    Is this the Good News? Was anybody reformed? Was there an intrinsic change in men? And finally, both Israel and Nineveh's reprieve, or lack of it, was a matter of WORKS. They had to change their BEHAVIOR. Is this the gospel?
    It is only ForHisglory who is making an issue out of the word "Gospel!" I've not been making any point about this at all in terms of denying that the Gospel is about both Salvation and Judgment. The Gospel is good news in the sense that Jesus legally liberated men from the condemnation of sin and death. Jesus provided a way for us to get into the Kingdom of Heaven. That's the good news.

    My point was more along the lines of, How does Salvation and Judgment relate in the proclamation of Jesus' Gospel/Message? I'm here using "Gospel" as a synonym for "Message." How does Salvation and Judgment relate in Jesus' Message?

    And I'm saying that Salvation involves not just the legal abrogation of the curse of sin, but also the expansion of the Gospel to the nations from Israel. And so, it is not just the *preaching* of the Gospel, but more, the declaration of a *universal Gospel,* which includes all nations.

    Beyond this, it is a message of salvation only by repentance because the age is evil. The Gospel, therefore, requires repentance from sin, in order to enter into God's Kingdom. This is just what happened in Jonah's day, when Nineveh averted disaster by repenting of their sins.

    I do believe men in Nineveh truly repented of their sins, and are now able to enter into the Kingdom of God. Yes, this became salvation for them after Christ's unlocked the door of salvation. The fact the next generation fell back into sin has no bearing on this.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I would phrase it like this. Jonah was sent to God's enemies to preach imminent judgement for their ways unless they repented.
    Please provide the verses in the book of Jonah which say that Jonah preached "repent or else in 40 days..."
    It is NOT there. Jonah was given the simple message "Nineveh will be destroyed in 40 days". There was NO call for repentance in Jonah's message.
    Jonah himself KNEW that if people repented then God would relent, but that is because Jonah was a prophet of God and so had a relationship with Him.
    It is one of those errors which is taught that Jonah preached a message of repentance.
    The people did repent, but not because Jonah called them to repent.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    More semantics games, huh? I could say Jonah's message was a message of repentance because it did bring repentance. Or, I could say it was not a message of repentance because it did not include a request for repentance. As I said, God intended the message of judgment, given to Jonah, to bring repentance. Period.
    You wish to go into semantics again??
    You CANNOT argue it was a message of repentance because people repented.
    You CAN say it is a message of repentance IF the message is "repent". This however is ENTIRELY absent from what God asked Jonah to say, or what Jonah said, and even more Jonah wasn't going to say it because He knew that God would relent IF the people repented and that was NOT what Jonah wanted.
    Now God ALWAYS wants repentance and for none to perish - that is who God is, so yo could argue that God telling him to take a message of disaster was in the hope tha they would repent. This does NOT change the FACT that Jonah's message did NOT offer the hope a message of repentance would bring.

    The point, brother, was that God had Jonah preach a message of judgment in order to elicit repentance from the Ninevites! Can't you agree on anything?
    I can agree on things which are ACTUALLY found in scripture.
    When we read in Revelation about various disasters that will happen, the purpose is also that people will repent, but we are told they will not.
    So though God wanted them to turn in repentance the message that Jonah was to give did NOT contain the offer of repentance.

    That's true. However, the word "gospel" also refers to the message that Jesus brought. His message, apart from the good news, also contained an element of judgment. In fact, my argument is that a major component of Jesus' message, apart from the good news/gospel was a prediction of certain and imminent judgment for the Jewish People. This is then transferred over to Gentiles who convert to Christianity. Christian nations face the same threat if they don't repent at Jesus' message.

    Again, you are quibbling over words. I'm using the word "gospel" for "message." It is a synonym, although technically you're correct. The gospel originated with the idea of Jesus bringing good news that the Kingdom of God was imminent. It was imminent in the sense that Jesus was about to let men into the Kingdom via salvation. But there was also a message of imminent judgment for the Jewish People. Before the Kingdom of God could fully come in the eschatological sense, judgment would fall upon Israel and upon the wicked world.
    If you want to change the meaning of the word "gospel" to mean what non-Christians choose to change it to, then that is up to you.
    I am using it in the meaning given it in the Bible, which is how I prefer to use words. It means we can ALL use the SAME terminology as it is found in scripture.
    I agree (notice I agreed!) that the Good News contains an element of judgement. Without that judgement the good news is actually meaningless. The good news is "this judgement which is going to happen, don't worry I have taken the judgement on myself!".
    For the Jews, and in fact for MOST people, the idea of judgement was KNOWN and accepted. Everyone held that world view. It is only in modern times that people have questioned it, and some refuse it.

    So are you completely blind to the fact we are in agreement on that? That's exactly what I've been saying, that without repentance there is only the prospect of imminent judgment. But with repentance there is salvation.
    It is a matter of emphasis.

    If I'm unsure? What kind of baloney is that? Do you think I don't believe the Bible?
    You were the one making out as if this is something new.

    I have no idea where we are disagreed on this, brother, except that you seem to try to semantically change how we are individually applying words in order to disagree with me?
    I told you where and how I disagreed with you. These are not BIG things, but simple points. They were to give clarity to your idea.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I think God intended Jonah's message of disaster to bring repentance to the people of Nineveh. It makes no difference how Jonah viewed it. He got a response he didn't immediately want.

    But yes, the fact Jonah focused on the disaster, and not on the repentance, is part of the story. Jesus, however, had a better attitude than Jonah. When he taught the coming disaster upon Jerusalem, for example, he intended to bring repentance to those who were willing to change. Even though the disaster did happen, and was not averted, I have to assume that some people accepted the apostles' message, and repented.

    I think the difference between Jonah's story and Jesus' Gospel is significant, but not essentially different. The message, from God's pov, is intended to bring mercy to those who do not appear to be worthy of it. We need to preach the gospel of judgment with an eye to bringing mercy to the wicked, if they are willing to repent.

    But the important thing here is to note that the Gospel takes place in an age of evil, when men are wicked and are in danger of judgment. We preach not just salvation to the worthy, but rather, salvation to those who are willing to repent of the evil in the world in which we live. If we don't see the evil in our world, we will not repent and will be judged along with the world.
    I agree with your view on both Jonah's commission to Nineveh and Jesus Christ' warning of impending judgment on Jerusalem. In both cases, even though judgment and doom were prophecied, God still had an eye out for those willing to repent. This is more evident in the exchange between Jonah and God in the last chapter of the Book of Jonah. In a classic case of mans' idea of judgment, Jonah couldn't conceive why Nineveh was spared irrespective of their repentance and was indeed, "angry" with God for backtracking on his promise of destruction (Jonah 4:1).

    God's mercy is also mirrored in his saving of many of the 1st-century believers living in Jerusalem at the time the city fell in 70 AD.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    In Rev 14:6-8, two angels are seen. The first is seen flying in midheaven carrying an eternal gospel to all nations and tribes. The second one follows and says, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great."

    Babylon the Great drinks of God's wrath at the pouring out of the 7th bowl in Rev 16, when the 7th angel pours out his bowl and shouts, "It is done!"

    Could this mean that there is an angel sent by God to carry the gospel to all nations just before the seventh bowl is poured out? Jesus never said in Matt 24:14 that the church accomplishes the Great Commission before the end. This is just a possibility to consider.

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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    It is only ForHisglory who is making an issue out of the word "Gospel!" I've not been making any point about this at all in terms of denying that the Gospel is about both Salvation and Judgment. The Gospel is good news in the sense that Jesus legally liberated men from the condemnation of sin and death. Jesus provided a way for us to get into the Kingdom of Heaven. That's the good news.

    My point was more along the lines of, How does Salvation and Judgment relate in the proclamation of Jesus' Gospel/Message? I'm here using "Gospel" as a synonym for "Message." How does Salvation and Judgment relate in Jesus' Message?

    And I'm saying that Salvation involves not just the legal abrogation of the curse of sin, but also the expansion of the Gospel to the nations from Israel. And so, it is not just the *preaching* of the Gospel, but more, the declaration of a *universal Gospel,* which includes all nations.

    Beyond this, it is a message of salvation only by repentance because the age is evil. The Gospel, therefore, requires repentance from sin, in order to enter into God's Kingdom. This is just what happened in Jonah's day, when Nineveh averted disaster by repenting of their sins.

    I do believe men in Nineveh truly repented of their sins, and are now able to enter into the Kingdom of God. Yes, this became salvation for them after Christ's unlocked the door of salvation. The fact the next generation fell back into sin has no bearing on this.
    But ENTRY into the Kingdom is by rebirth and Baptism (Jn.3:3-5), and rebirth is by FAITH in Jesus. But I'm probably missing the point. Would you care to post the scriptures that cause the question. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Re: The Grreat Commission warning

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Please provide the verses in the book of Jonah which say that Jonah preached "repent or else in 40 days..."
    It is NOT there. Jonah was given the simple message "Nineveh will be destroyed in 40 days". There was NO call for repentance in Jonah's message.
    Jonah himself KNEW that if people repented then God would relent, but that is because Jonah was a prophet of God and so had a relationship with Him.
    It is one of those errors which is taught that Jonah preached a message of repentance.
    The people did repent, but not because Jonah called them to repent.
    Jonah 3:2-4;
    2 "Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
    3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
    4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."

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