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Thread: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

  1. #16

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I don't think he received the Spirit after the ascension, in any case.

    ESV
    Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    Many other translations are similar, just stating he had (previously) received the Spirit.

    Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
    Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
    Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
    Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Clearly, Jesus had the Spirit.

    We see 2 different things in Acts 2.33.
    1. Jesus received the Spirit of Promise
    2. What you see here

    IOW, he who received the Spirit is behind what you are seeing now.

    These are not the same thing. There is the initial receiving of the Spirit/being born again, then there is the pouring of the Spirit. They have different purposes.

    Why would the glorified Lord need to receive the Spirit of Promise? No reason at all.
    What do you think it was that glorified him, the one who in being raised no more to return to corruption Acts 13:34, the one who, being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him Rom 6:9? What brought this about?

    in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:13,14 YLT
    And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; Rom 8:23
    and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you.
    Rom 8:11 When? shall quicken vi Fut Act 3 Sg
    And He who did work us to this self-same thing is God, who also did give to us the earnest of the Spirit; 2 Cor 5:5
    What self-same thing? Self-same as Who. Who is the heir of which we are joint heirs with? Has He already inherited, that, we are still heirs thereof?
    Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I don't think he received the Spirit after the ascension, in any case.

    ESV
    Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    Many other translations are similar, just stating he had (previously) received the Spirit.

    Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
    Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
    Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
    Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Clearly, Jesus had the Spirit.

    We see 2 different things in Acts 2.33.
    1. Jesus received the Spirit of Promise
    2. What you see here

    IOW, he who received the Spirit is behind what you are seeing now.

    These are not the same thing. There is the initial receiving of the Spirit/being born again, then there is the pouring of the Spirit. They have different purposes.

    Why would the glorified Lord need to receive the Spirit of Promise? No reason at all.
    What do you think it was that glorified him, the one who in being raised no more to return to corruption Acts 13:34, the one who, being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him Rom 6:9? What brought this about?

    in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:13,14 YLT
    And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; Rom 8:23
    and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you.
    Rom 8:11 When? shall quicken vi Fut Act 3 Sg
    And He who did work us to this self-same thing is God, who also did give to us the earnest of the Spirit; 2 Cor 5:5
    What self-same thing? Self-same as Who. Who is the heir of which we are joint heirs with? Has He already inherited, that, we are still heirs thereof?
    Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

  2. #17
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I don't think he received the Spirit after the ascension, in any case.

    ESV
    Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    Many other translations are similar, just stating he had (previously) received the Spirit.

    Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
    Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
    Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
    Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Clearly, Jesus had the Spirit.

    We see 2 different things in Acts 2.33.
    1. Jesus received the Spirit of Promise
    2. What you see here

    IOW, he who received the Spirit is behind what you are seeing now.

    These are not the same thing. There is the initial receiving of the Spirit/being born again, then there is the pouring of the Spirit. They have different purposes.

    Why would the glorified Lord need to receive the Spirit of Promise? No reason at all.
    Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    It seems unnatural that this passage would speak of Jesus ascending to the right hand of God to obtain glory and then refer back to some previous time when he had received the Spirit. There is no question that the Spirit descended upon Jesus at baptism. But this is the whole reason I'm asking this question. This appears to be another occasion in which Jesus received the Spirit, and this time it seems to take place in heaven, when Jesus is seated on the right of God.

    There seems to be a direct correlation between Jesus receiving God's Spirit at that time as a man, so that he can, following his atonement, distribute that gift to his people. I believe it takes place following the atonement so that he can give the Spirit anew on behalf of the atonement.

    Consider the following passages, and you will see that Jesus planned to give the Spirit of God to his people only after he had returned to heaven. And it would be for the purpose of replacing Jesus' presence with them, indicating that the Spirit had not yet come in this way. And it would be for representing Christ in his glory and power. Finally, it would be only after people had been fully secured from their bondage to sin. This gift of the Spirit to Christ took place on the throne in heaven so that at that point the Spirit could be given to his people, representing his redemption and the ministry of reconciliation for the Church.

    John 16.7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

    John 14.16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth.

    Eph 4.8 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”

  3. #18
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    What do you think it was that glorified him, the one who in being raised no more to return to corruption Acts 13:34, the one who, being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him Rom 6:9? What brought this about?
    Corruption put on incorruption.

  4. #19
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    It seems unnatural that this passage would speak of Jesus ascending to the right hand of God to obtain glory and then refer back to some previous time when he had received the Spirit.
    Not unnatural at all. The verse starts with "therefore" and is a summary of what had already been stated. Having the Spirit and being exalted are both said in previous verses. He did the same here.

    Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: )
    Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
    Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
    Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
    Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
    Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
    Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
    Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

  5. #20
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    That is to say, he gave a summary of past events in both chapter 2 and 10.

  6. #21
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Not unnatural at all. The verse starts with "therefore" and is a summary of what had already been stated. Having the Spirit and being exalted are both said in previous verses. He did the same here.

    Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: )
    Act 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
    Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
    Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
    Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
    Act 10:41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
    Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
    Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
    Sorry, I can't see how the given references prove anything in this regard. We receive the witness, or the gospel, of Jesus about his earthly ministry, which had taken place earlier. But in the Acts 2.33 verse Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in heaven and apparently receives, at that time, the Holy Spirit of promise.

    Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    When does Jesus receive from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit? It is when he is exalted at the right hand of God. Maybe you can read it differently, but I personally don't find that natural.

    As I said, there are other related biblical passages that connect Jesus receiving the Spirit with the glorification event. The authority Jesus received in heaven seems related to his getting the Spirit from the Father so as to give that Spirit to his Church. I provided those references.

    I think that it may seem a bit odd that one Person of the Trinity receives another Person of the Trinity. They are both God! However, the roles of both the Son and the Spirit are unique in that they are located in a place and time. The Son is a human. The Spirit is active in a particular place.

    Both Persons of the Trinity, however, are also universal in their characteristics. For example, although the Spirit can be viewed as being in one place at a particular time, He is simultaneously active in all other places. So also, the Son, though appearing in one place in history, also exists universally in his Deity.

    The act of giving the Spirit to the Son, therefore, does not disunite the Trinity. Rather, these are functions by which the Spirit acts in a place and relates to men in a place.

    The Son does this so that it may be done for other men, as well. So when the Spirit was given to Jesus on high, he had to first receive the redemptive authority to bestow it upon men who qualify, by faith, for this gift. We can then receive the Spirit as an agent of all the works Christ did for us, to live in him and to minister for him.

  7. #22
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    I don't see how you are coming to this conclusion. Not logically neither does scripture say it.

  8. #23

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Corruption put on incorruption.
    And who was responsible for that taking place.

    From Gal 1:1 YLT Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead --

    Is this the same Father God, Jesus spoke of in John 4:23,24 and see how it reads in the literal Greek

    ἀλλ᾽ ἔρχεται ὥρα καὶ νῦν ἐστιν ὅτε οἱ ἀληθινοὶ προσκυνηταὶ προσκυνήσουσιν τῷ πατρὶ ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ καὶ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ τοιούτους ζητεῖ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτόν πνεῦμα ὁ θεός καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν

    That in bold reads: -- for the Father such is seeking the ones worshiping him, Spirit the God. ---------- I would like to add here. I know, no Greek. Never had a course. If there be any Greek gurus here they can address this and any statements i make. To be that comes off different than saying, God is a Spirit, the word for, "is," not being there and neither is the indefinite article, "a". I will add something else I find interesting.

    The Greek of Matt 1:20
    ταῦτα δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐνθυμηθέντος ἰδού ἄγγελος κυρίου κατ᾽ ὄναρ ἐφάνη αὐτῷ λέγων Ἰωσὴφ υἱὸς Δαβίδ μὴ φοβηθῇς παραλαβεῖν Μαριὰμ τὴν γυναῖκά σου τὸ γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου
    Literally.

    for in her being conceived out of Spirit is Holy - Verse 23 'Lo, the virgin shall conceive, and she shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel,' which is, being interpreted 'With us, The God.'

    Now put the two together and you have a little different conception or at least I do. Jesus was conceived in the virgin out of Spirit, Holy, Spirit the God.

    Now again Romans 8:11
    But if the Spirit of him (Father, Spirit the God?) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he (Father, Spirit the God?) that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Corruption put on incorruption.
    And who was responsible for that taking place.

    From Gal 1:1 YLT Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead --

    Is this the same Father God, Jesus spoke of in John 4:23,24 and see how it reads in the literal Greek

    ἀλλ᾽ ἔρχεται ὥρα καὶ νῦν ἐστιν ὅτε οἱ ἀληθινοὶ προσκυνηταὶ προσκυνήσουσιν τῷ πατρὶ ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ καὶ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ τοιούτους ζητεῖ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτόν πνεῦμα ὁ θεός καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν

    That in bold reads: -- for the Father such is seeking the ones worshiping him, Spirit the God. ---------- I would like to add here. I know, no Greek. Never had a course. If there be any Greek gurus here they can address this and any statements i make. To be that comes off different than saying, God is a Spirit, the word for, "is," not being there and neither is the indefinite article, "a". I will add something else I find interesting.

    The Greek of Matt 1:20
    ταῦτα δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐνθυμηθέντος ἰδού ἄγγελος κυρίου κατ᾽ ὄναρ ἐφάνη αὐτῷ λέγων Ἰωσὴφ υἱὸς Δαβίδ μὴ φοβηθῇς παραλαβεῖν Μαριὰμ τὴν γυναῖκά σου τὸ γὰρ ἐν αὐτῇ γεννηθὲν ἐκ πνεύματός ἐστιν ἁγίου
    Literally.

    for in her being conceived out of Spirit is Holy - Verse 23 'Lo, the virgin shall conceive, and she shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel,' which is, being interpreted 'With us, The God.'

    Now put the two together and you have a little different conception or at least I do. Jesus was conceived in the virgin out of Spirit, Holy, Spirit the God.

    Now again Romans 8:11
    But if the Spirit of him (Father, Spirit the God?) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he (Father, Spirit the God?) that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;

  9. #24
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    And who was responsible for that taking place.
    Are you suggesting Jesus did not have the Spirit before he was glorified?

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Sorry, I can't see how the given references prove anything in this regard.
    You don't see Jesus having the Spirit and being exalted in both passages?


    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    But in the Acts 2.33 verse Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in heaven and apparently receives, at that time, the Holy Spirit of promise.
    It doesn't say at that time. It reiterates what was already said.


    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    As I said, there are other related biblical passages that connect Jesus receiving the Spirit with the glorification event. The authority Jesus received in heaven seems related to his getting the Spirit from the Father so as to give that Spirit to his Church. I provided those references.
    I don't see that in those either.

  11. #26

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Are you suggesting Jesus did not have the Spirit before he was glorified?
    I am suggesting that while Jesus was dead the Spirit of him was in the hands of his Father.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Are you suggesting Jesus did not have the Spirit before he was glorified?
    I am suggesting that while Jesus was dead the Spirit of him was in the hands of his Father.

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    I am suggesting that while Jesus was dead the Spirit of him was in the hands of his Father.
    Which would be true for all, no?

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    You don't see Jesus having the Spirit and being exalted in both passages?
    It doesn't say at that time. It reiterates what was already said.
    I don't see that in those either.
    I really don't have anything more to add at this time. As I said, your version seems awkward. The passage is *not* saying that Jesus is exalted at the right hand of God in heaven, and received the Spirit of promise *earlier.* Rather, the implication, as stated, simply means that Jesus received the Spirit *at that time.* The simplest version is more likely to be right. To not have added that Jesus had received the Spirit earlier would confuse the reader. The absence of this explanation forces us to accept the more natural reading, which is that Jesus received the Spirit of promise *at that time.*

    In other words, no explanation is needed as written. But in your version we would require an explanation.

    The deeper issue for me is the notion that the Spirit came not just once, but several times to indicate different phases of divine operation. The Spirit was obviously there in the beginning, during the acts of creation. He was moving over the deep. And he was there at the prophesying of the OT Prophets. And he was there in the form of divine glory in the temple. He was also there at the baptism of Jesus, identifying him as the Son of God come to redeem man as the sinless sacrifice.

    During the earthly ministry of Jesus the Spirit was given to the apostles to minister in the power of Jesus, although it was prior to redemption. Finally, in our present example, the Spirit was promised to be given both to the Son and to the Church *after redemption.* I believe this didn't happen immediately after Jesus' resurrection, but rather, after he was exalted on high. That way Jesus could administer his redemption from heaven through the Spirit poured out on the Church on earth. But this remains somewhat speculative.

    And this was why, I believe, the Spirit was not given immediately after Jesus' resurrection, because this had to become a universal event, and not just a local event. When Jesus was on earth he "breathed on his apostles" the Spirit so that could act as ambassadors of him as the sinless Messiah. But after his work of redemption he wanted all Christians to receive the Holy Spirit to act as his ambassadors.

    And so, Jesus had to be exalted on high in order to receive the Spirit from God the Father as a new means of administration. It was to be a universal application of the Spirit to all Christians everywhere.

    John 4.1 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    The passage is *not* saying that Jesus is exalted at the right hand of God in heaven, and received the Spirit of promise *earlier.*
    I know. He who already had the Spirit, as stated in both context, and had received the promise of the Spirit (received a promise not the Spirit) from the Father (to give to believers after he was raised and ascended) is pouring forth this you see and hear. No passage says Jesus received the Spirit of promise, as I hastily and incorrectly stated in a previous post. If we had to say he did and when he did we'd have to go back to the words of John and Luke 4 as Walls and I already pointed out. We certainly can't use this verse which says he received a promise. "I don't think he received the Spirit after the ascension, in any case."
    "Why would the glorified Lord need to receive the Spirit of Promise? No reason at all."

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I know. He who already had the Spirit, as stated in both context, and had received the promise of the Spirit (received a promise not the Spirit) from the Father (to give to believers after he was raised and ascended) is pouring forth this you see and hear. No passage says Jesus received the Spirit of promise, as I hastily and incorrectly stated in a previous post. If we had to say he did and when he did we'd have to go back to the words of John and Luke 4 as Walls and I already pointed out. We certainly can't use this verse which says he received a promise. "I don't think he received the Spirit after the ascension, in any case."
    "Why would the glorified Lord need to receive the Spirit of Promise? No reason at all."
    I gave you my reason. I could just as easily ask, Why would Jesus have to receive a *promise* during his exaltation? What we see here is something that Jesus received during his exaltation, and it wasn't just a promise--it was the promise of the Spirit. In other words, he received the Spirit in order to distribute it universally, whereas before it was just locally.

    That's how I see it anyway. I suppose it's a reasonable conversation?

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