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Thread: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

  1. #31
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    But that's just it.....he didn't receive the promise during his exaltation, he received it during his earthly ministry and said -it is necessarily that I go away, because if i don't go away the comforter will not come. He didn't receive the promise during his exaltation. The promise was that it would not be until he went away (ascended) the Spirit would be given to all believers. You've referenced this several times. So the verse basically say that the promise is being fulfilled. He was raised, exalted, and the Spirit is being poured out.

    Personally, I don't find anything reasonable in saying he had to receive the Spirit of promise after glorification in order to distribute Him.

  2. #32
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    But that's just it.....he didn't receive the promise during his exaltation, he received it during his earthly ministry and said -it is necessarily that I go away, because if i don't go away the comforter will not come. He didn't receive the promise during his exaltation. The promise was that it would not be until he went away (ascended) the Spirit would be given to all believers. You've referenced this several times. So the verse basically say that the promise is being fulfilled. He was raised, exalted, and the Spirit is being poured out.

    Personally, I don't find anything reasonable in saying he had to receive the Spirit of promise after glorification in order to distribute Him.
    And yet that is precisely how some translators have it. It is the "promise of the Spirit" that Jesus received during his exaltation. This is saying that Jesus received something during his exaltation. He did not receive the promise at that time, but rather, the thing that was promised, namely the Holy Spirit.

    But it's a good question. What "promise" is being referenced here? If we both agree that the promise occurred earlier, when was it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    But that's just it.....he didn't receive the promise during his exaltation, he received it during his earthly ministry and said -it is necessarily that I go away, because if i don't go away the comforter will not come. He didn't receive the promise during his exaltation. The promise was that it would not be until he went away (ascended) the Spirit would be given to all believers. You've referenced this several times. So the verse basically say that the promise is being fulfilled. He was raised, exalted, and the Spirit is being poured out.

    Personally, I don't find anything reasonable in saying he had to receive the Spirit of promise after glorification in order to distribute Him.
    And yet that is precisely how some translators have it. It is the "promise of the Spirit" that Jesus received during his exaltation. This is saying that Jesus received something during his exaltation. He did not receive the promise at that time, but rather, the thing that was promised, namely the Holy Spirit.

    But it's a good question. What "promise" is being referenced here? If we both agree that the promise occurred earlier, when was it?

  3. #33
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    And yet that is precisely how some translators have it. It is the "promise of the Spirit" that Jesus received during his exaltation. This is saying that Jesus received something during his exaltation. He did not receive the promise at that time, but rather, the thing that was promised, namely the Holy Spirit.

    But it's a good question. What "promise" is being referenced here? If we both agree that the promise occurred earlier, when was it?
    Therefore is there_for what was previously said. Jesus was approved of God, but you crucified him anyway, then God raised him from the dead. Therefore, now in power and exalted, and having been told by the Father that the Spirit would be given to believers after his return to heaven, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.*

  4. #34
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Therefore is there_for what was previously said. Jesus was approved of God, but you crucified him anyway, then God raised him from the dead. Therefore, now in power and exalted, and having been told by the Father that the Spirit would be given to believers after his return to heaven, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.*
    John 14.15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth."

    Do you see the progression? Jesus wanted his people to be able to keep his commands and to have his love in them. To do this he had to ask the Father for the Spirit, and the Spirit would have to be given to him to distribute to all of his disciples. This wasn't just a local gift to a few men, but a universal application of his love to all of his people everywhere.

    So when did Jesus ask the Father to give him the Spirit? It was when he had accomplished redemption and was ready to distribute the Spirit universally, which was at his exaltation in heaven.

    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    This was where Jesus showed his lordship, when mankind had been fully conquered by the judgment and spiritual resuscitation of men.

  5. #35

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Along the same thought, what about Eph 1:13,14?

    KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    ἐσφραγίσθητε ye were sealed to τῷ the πνεύματι spirit τῆς of the ἐπαγγελίας promise τῷ the ἁγίῳ holy

    What promise are we sealed to, that the spirit is the earnest of inheritance thereof? Is it the same, promise, Jesus received from the Father?

    More food for thought.

    For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 2 Cor 5:4,5

    The spirit, the earnest of inheritance, we wrought for selfsame thing, that mortality might be swallowed up in life. --- the hope of eternal life. Titus 1:2 Who is the heir of God, who has inherited all things? Who has inherited life to die no more, incorruptible? Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2

    Who has inertited the promise of that we are yet heirs thereof? Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

  6. #36
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Do you see the progression?
    Do you?

    Joh 15:26* But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:*

    Joh 16:13* Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.*

    Was there any question? The OT said the Spirit would be given. So when Jesus said he would ask, do you think he really needed to ask? Are you looking for a formality? Just going through the motions? Are the Father, Son, and Spirit in unison or not? Was there any chance of a "no"? Any question? Did he really ask? Just gong through the motions? How can a promise for something prophesied hundreds of years before be given and received? At some point we have to realize this is God talking.

  7. #37
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Along the same thought, what about Eph 1:13,14?

    KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    ἐσφραγίσθητε ye were sealed to τῷ the πνεύματι spirit τῆς of the ἐπαγγελίας promise τῷ the ἁγίῳ holy

    What promise are we sealed to, that the spirit is the earnest of inheritance thereof? Is it the same, promise, Jesus received from the Father?

    More food for thought.

    For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 2 Cor 5:4,5

    The spirit, the earnest of inheritance, we wrought for selfsame thing, that mortality might be swallowed up in life. --- the hope of eternal life. Titus 1:2 Who is the heir of God, who has inherited all things? Who has inherited life to die no more, incorruptible? Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2

    Who has inertited the promise of that we are yet heirs thereof? Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
    Yes, that's my thought too. I see that the Holy Spirit was given to Jesus to give to his people as a down payment on our eternal inheritance. That could not be asked for and distributed until after Jesus had risen from the dead, and had ascended into the place of universal authority. His redemption had to be applied universally, and not just locally.

  8. #38
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Do you?

    Joh 15:26* But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:*

    Joh 16:13* Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.*

    Was there any question? The OT said the Spirit would be given. So when Jesus said he would ask, do you think he really needed to ask? Are you looking for a formality? Just going through the motions? Are the Father, Son, and Spirit in unison or not? Was there any chance of a "no"? Any question? Did he really ask? Just gong through the motions? How can a promise for something prophesied hundreds of years before be given and received? At some point we have to realize this is God talking.
    This just begs the question: why does the Trinity operate the way it does? It is simply because each Person has His own role to play. Jesus operates dually, as the Lord who has authority to give God's Spirit to us, and as man, who is our example of dependence upon the Holy Spirit.

    So the answer is, Yes, the operations of the Trinity are a formality, dictated by the Creator, who sees a need for a particular set of circumstances in which the Spirit of God can be given, permanently, to Man in a redemptive way. And that's because Man has sinned, and must receive the Spirit through a process of redemption, through the Son, who enables us to have the Spirit of God permanently.

    Jesus must formally ask for the Spirit on our behalf because only he is qualified to get this for us. And as man, he is showing us his regular dependence upon the Spirit. But in receiving the Spirit anew, in heaven, he is receiving the Spirit in order to give Him to us in a redemptive way. This could only take place after the Cross and after Jesus has ascended on high, where he can distribute this in his omnipotence.

  9. #39

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?" I have my own inclinations, which I may share later, if there is some good input on this.

    I do find that there are many Christians who have been ignorant of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and that includes me. I've been a Pentecostal for many years, but was raised up in the Lutheran Church. So the change in theology, from the classic "salvation of Jesus" to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" brought about some confusion in my mind. Pentecostals, raised up in the Pentecostal tradition, simply accepted the "Spirit Baptism" without thought. But more traditional Christian thought has had to challenge some of their assumptions, as have I.

    One thing I agree with my Pentecostal brethren, however. And that is on the importance of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. We are to be "filled with the Spirit," making melody in our hearts to the Lord and praying continually. We are to walk in the light, and make the most of every opportunity. This is the "Spirit-filled life."

    What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation.

    Christian salvation, therefore, should always be characterized by spiritual living. But we should also rely on the power of the Spirit to proclaim our testimony. We do not need to wait for another Pentecost, however, since the Spirit has already been given both to Jesus and to the Church. What we do need, though, is to be led by the Spirit when we are proclaiming the Gospel, so that it will be carried out in power.

    Any thoughts?

    the Holy Ghost, is what makes us children of God, we receive his spirit, like Jesus did at baptism.

    “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
    **Ezekiel‬ *36:26-27‬ *KJV‬‬


    people will explain how this is only for Israel, but the truth is first it was sent to Israel, and those who received Jesus and the Holy Ghost, then were sent with the same doctrine to all the world.


    it was the ultimate mission for him to receive the Holy Spirit, follow the spirit, and eventually commit the Holy Spirit to God at his death. He then is resurrected and taken to Gods right hand, where through him, as he promised in the gospel, we can receive the Holy Ghost. It's the power of God to change our hearts and minds bringing us into obedience where life exists.

    people miss that even from the start whenever God commands man to not do something, it's for thier good, it's never him just arbitrarily speaking random rules, he's always been warning us " this thing will cause you to die, don't do it" but because we're not holy, we tend to just see a rule against something that we desire. It's the wrong view of God , everything he does is for us, never against us.

    the Holy Spirit is about leading our spirit , healing our spirit , teaching and leading us into true repentance and bringing our spirit into obedience of the things that will keep us alive. Jesus promised this to his disciples

    " I tell you I go away and you are saddened , but I tell you it is expedient that I go away, for if I go away I will send you the comforter, the Holy Ghost" then of course he did just that we see its first effect at pentocaust. Immediately all these common men, are healing the sick, even raising the dead in the case of both Peter and Paul, driving out disease and sickness , spirits ect....doing like Jesus said the same kinds of great works as he did. But remember all along he was saying " it's not I who am doing these works, but the father who dwells on me, he's doing it"


    it's not as if when we receive the Holy Spirit, our spirit goes away, he comes and lives in us along with our spirit, guiding, teaching healing, writing Gods words on our heart, quickening us to obey not by our own determination, but by the power and provision of God. The Holy Ghost being sent to believers, is the prize of Jesus works.

  10. #40
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    the Holy Ghost, is what makes us children of God, we receive his spirit, like Jesus did at baptism.

    “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
    **Ezekiel‬ *36:26-27‬ *KJV‬‬


    people will explain how this is only for Israel, but the truth is first it was sent to Israel, and those who received Jesus and the Holy Ghost, then were sent with the same doctrine to all the world.


    it was the ultimate mission for him to receive the Holy Spirit, follow the spirit, and eventually commit the Holy Spirit to God at his death. He then is resurrected and taken to Gods right hand, where through him, as he promised in the gospel, we can receive the Holy Ghost. It's the power of God to change our hearts and minds bringing us into obedience where life exists.

    people miss that even from the start whenever God commands man to not do something, it's for thier good, it's never him just arbitrarily speaking random rules, he's always been warning us " this thing will cause you to die, don't do it" but because we're not holy, we tend to just see a rule against something that we desire. It's the wrong view of God , everything he does is for us, never against us.

    the Holy Spirit is about leading our spirit , healing our spirit , teaching and leading us into true repentance and bringing our spirit into obedience of the things that will keep us alive. Jesus promised this to his disciples

    " I tell you I go away and you are saddened , but I tell you it is expedient that I go away, for if I go away I will send you the comforter, the Holy Ghost" then of course he did just that we see its first effect at pentocaust. Immediately all these common men, are healing the sick, even raising the dead in the case of both Peter and Paul, driving out disease and sickness , spirits ect....doing like Jesus said the same kinds of great works as he did. But remember all along he was saying " it's not I who am doing these works, but the father who dwells on me, he's doing it"


    it's not as if when we receive the Holy Spirit, our spirit goes away, he comes and lives in us along with our spirit, guiding, teaching healing, writing Gods words on our heart, quickening us to obey not by our own determination, but by the power and provision of God. The Holy Ghost being sent to believers, is the prize of Jesus works.
    Lot of truth in this, but doesn't really address where my personal confusion has been. As I said, men have always had a spiritual relationship with God. Without the Holy Spirit such a relationship would never have been possible.

    And so we see the Holy Spirit in the OT and we see Him in the NT, as well, particularly now that we've received final atonement for our sins. But the question is, how can we differentiate between a living in the Spirit of God, and an empowerment from the Holy Spirit for a specific ministry?

    We read, in the OT, how priests were "anointed" for ministry on behalf of God. They were anointed with oil as a symbol of God's spiritual anointing of them as His ambassadors.

    In the same way, Jesus placed spiritual authority upon his apostles so that when they were sent out they could act with his own spiritual authority. They were spiritually anointed for service and spiritually empowered to act in that ministry.

    Do you see a differentiation, therefore, between people who simply live and relate with God and those who are specially called as priests and prophets, to act for God? And, do you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, on the Day of Pentecost, was a special call to the whole Church to be ambassadors for Christ? Was this simply the deposit guaranteeing our salvation, or was it a special call to ministry, or both?

  11. #41

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[fn] of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Gal 4:4-6 MKJV

    But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will (vi Fut Act 3 Sg) also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
    Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
    Rom 8:11-16,23 NKJV

    “But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; “nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35,36 NKJV

    But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[fn] of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Gal 4:4-6 MKJV

    But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will (vi Fut Act 3 Sg) also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
    Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
    Rom 8:11-16,23 NKJV

    “But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; “nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35,36 NKJV

  12. #42

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    When the fulness of time came.


    Relative to my previous post; Does what it states relative to the Spirit of Adoption; Does the, Spirit of Christ, apply back to the dead saints of the Old Testament?

  13. #43
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    When the fulness of time came.


    Relative to my previous post; Does what it states relative to the Spirit of Adoption; Does the, Spirit of Christ, apply back to the dead saints of the Old Testament?

    When Christ spent (3) days in the tomb, his spirit was in the heart of the earth preaching to imprisoned spirits under the Law. However, that does not automatically mean that all those souls were saved. The bible teaches those (that lived by the law), what was required by law. All these that died prior to his death were judged by the law of the old covenant. Christ was their judge.

    1 Peter 3:
    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


    Matthew 12:40
    "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."


    Zechariah 14:8
    "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be."

  14. #44
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    When the fulness of time came.


    Relative to my previous post; Does what it states relative to the Spirit of Adoption; Does the, Spirit of Christ, apply back to the dead saints of the Old Testament?
    Another good reference from Apostle Paul.

    Ephesians 4
    8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
    9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    When the fulness of time came.


    Relative to my previous post; Does what it states relative to the Spirit of Adoption; Does the, Spirit of Christ, apply back to the dead saints of the Old Testament?
    Your post emphasizes the role the Holy Spirit plays in our salvation. But it completely ignores the previous question I asked about an empowerment for ministry. The Holy Spirit was already present for salvation after the resurrection, but the promise of the Holy Spirit had not yet been given on Pentecost.

    The following took place right after Jesus' resurrection, and seems to be an anointing for ministry...

    John 20.21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

    Again, this was not the "promise of the Comforter," which Jesus had promised to send to his disciples on the Day of Pentecost, after he had ascended to the right hand of God in heaven. It does seem that the Spirit, here, plays a role both in salvation and in anointing for ministry?

    Why did the "promise of the Spirit" happen *after* the resurrection, and *after* the ascension of Jesus into heaven? Was it the difference between a local event and a universal event? I think you've established that it has to do with salvation. But it also appears to be a calling into ministry. Any thoughts?

    To answer your own question, I would say that the Spirit of Adoption certainly applies *legally* to the OT saints, through the resurrection that they will experience at Christ's Coming. But in a practical sense, the coming of the Spirit has to do with living saints who are operating as ambassadors for Christ.

    In other words, the gift of the Spirit is the completed packaged promised to the OT saints. They just can't receive it in a practical way until the resurrection. They are saved, but until they are raised from the dead how can they live by the Spirit? Only living saints can live by the Spirit.

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