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Thread: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

  1. #31
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    But that's just it.....he didn't receive the promise during his exaltation, he received it during his earthly ministry and said -it is necessarily that I go away, because if i don't go away the comforter will not come. He didn't receive the promise during his exaltation. The promise was that it would not be until he went away (ascended) the Spirit would be given to all believers. You've referenced this several times. So the verse basically say that the promise is being fulfilled. He was raised, exalted, and the Spirit is being poured out.

    Personally, I don't find anything reasonable in saying he had to receive the Spirit of promise after glorification in order to distribute Him.

  2. #32
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    But that's just it.....he didn't receive the promise during his exaltation, he received it during his earthly ministry and said -it is necessarily that I go away, because if i don't go away the comforter will not come. He didn't receive the promise during his exaltation. The promise was that it would not be until he went away (ascended) the Spirit would be given to all believers. You've referenced this several times. So the verse basically say that the promise is being fulfilled. He was raised, exalted, and the Spirit is being poured out.

    Personally, I don't find anything reasonable in saying he had to receive the Spirit of promise after glorification in order to distribute Him.
    And yet that is precisely how some translators have it. It is the "promise of the Spirit" that Jesus received during his exaltation. This is saying that Jesus received something during his exaltation. He did not receive the promise at that time, but rather, the thing that was promised, namely the Holy Spirit.

    But it's a good question. What "promise" is being referenced here? If we both agree that the promise occurred earlier, when was it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    But that's just it.....he didn't receive the promise during his exaltation, he received it during his earthly ministry and said -it is necessarily that I go away, because if i don't go away the comforter will not come. He didn't receive the promise during his exaltation. The promise was that it would not be until he went away (ascended) the Spirit would be given to all believers. You've referenced this several times. So the verse basically say that the promise is being fulfilled. He was raised, exalted, and the Spirit is being poured out.

    Personally, I don't find anything reasonable in saying he had to receive the Spirit of promise after glorification in order to distribute Him.
    And yet that is precisely how some translators have it. It is the "promise of the Spirit" that Jesus received during his exaltation. This is saying that Jesus received something during his exaltation. He did not receive the promise at that time, but rather, the thing that was promised, namely the Holy Spirit.

    But it's a good question. What "promise" is being referenced here? If we both agree that the promise occurred earlier, when was it?

  3. #33
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    And yet that is precisely how some translators have it. It is the "promise of the Spirit" that Jesus received during his exaltation. This is saying that Jesus received something during his exaltation. He did not receive the promise at that time, but rather, the thing that was promised, namely the Holy Spirit.

    But it's a good question. What "promise" is being referenced here? If we both agree that the promise occurred earlier, when was it?
    Therefore is there_for what was previously said. Jesus was approved of God, but you crucified him anyway, then God raised him from the dead. Therefore, now in power and exalted, and having been told by the Father that the Spirit would be given to believers after his return to heaven, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.*

  4. #34
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Therefore is there_for what was previously said. Jesus was approved of God, but you crucified him anyway, then God raised him from the dead. Therefore, now in power and exalted, and having been told by the Father that the Spirit would be given to believers after his return to heaven, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.*
    John 14.15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth."

    Do you see the progression? Jesus wanted his people to be able to keep his commands and to have his love in them. To do this he had to ask the Father for the Spirit, and the Spirit would have to be given to him to distribute to all of his disciples. This wasn't just a local gift to a few men, but a universal application of his love to all of his people everywhere.

    So when did Jesus ask the Father to give him the Spirit? It was when he had accomplished redemption and was ready to distribute the Spirit universally, which was at his exaltation in heaven.

    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    This was where Jesus showed his lordship, when mankind had been fully conquered by the judgment and spiritual resuscitation of men.

  5. #35

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Along the same thought, what about Eph 1:13,14?

    KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    ἐσφραγίσθητε ye were sealed to τῷ the πνεύματι spirit τῆς of the ἐπαγγελίας promise τῷ the ἁγίῳ holy

    What promise are we sealed to, that the spirit is the earnest of inheritance thereof? Is it the same, promise, Jesus received from the Father?

    More food for thought.

    For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 2 Cor 5:4,5

    The spirit, the earnest of inheritance, we wrought for selfsame thing, that mortality might be swallowed up in life. --- the hope of eternal life. Titus 1:2 Who is the heir of God, who has inherited all things? Who has inherited life to die no more, incorruptible? Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2

    Who has inertited the promise of that we are yet heirs thereof? Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

  6. #36
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Do you see the progression?
    Do you?

    Joh 15:26* But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:*

    Joh 16:13* Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.*

    Was there any question? The OT said the Spirit would be given. So when Jesus said he would ask, do you think he really needed to ask? Are you looking for a formality? Just going through the motions? Are the Father, Son, and Spirit in unison or not? Was there any chance of a "no"? Any question? Did he really ask? Just gong through the motions? How can a promise for something prophesied hundreds of years before be given and received? At some point we have to realize this is God talking.

  7. #37
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Along the same thought, what about Eph 1:13,14?

    KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    ἐσφραγίσθητε ye were sealed to τῷ the πνεύματι spirit τῆς of the ἐπαγγελίας promise τῷ the ἁγίῳ holy

    What promise are we sealed to, that the spirit is the earnest of inheritance thereof? Is it the same, promise, Jesus received from the Father?

    More food for thought.

    For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 2 Cor 5:4,5

    The spirit, the earnest of inheritance, we wrought for selfsame thing, that mortality might be swallowed up in life. --- the hope of eternal life. Titus 1:2 Who is the heir of God, who has inherited all things? Who has inherited life to die no more, incorruptible? Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:2

    Who has inertited the promise of that we are yet heirs thereof? Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
    Yes, that's my thought too. I see that the Holy Spirit was given to Jesus to give to his people as a down payment on our eternal inheritance. That could not be asked for and distributed until after Jesus had risen from the dead, and had ascended into the place of universal authority. His redemption had to be applied universally, and not just locally.

  8. #38
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Do you?

    Joh 15:26* But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:*

    Joh 16:13* Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.*

    Was there any question? The OT said the Spirit would be given. So when Jesus said he would ask, do you think he really needed to ask? Are you looking for a formality? Just going through the motions? Are the Father, Son, and Spirit in unison or not? Was there any chance of a "no"? Any question? Did he really ask? Just gong through the motions? How can a promise for something prophesied hundreds of years before be given and received? At some point we have to realize this is God talking.
    This just begs the question: why does the Trinity operate the way it does? It is simply because each Person has His own role to play. Jesus operates dually, as the Lord who has authority to give God's Spirit to us, and as man, who is our example of dependence upon the Holy Spirit.

    So the answer is, Yes, the operations of the Trinity are a formality, dictated by the Creator, who sees a need for a particular set of circumstances in which the Spirit of God can be given, permanently, to Man in a redemptive way. And that's because Man has sinned, and must receive the Spirit through a process of redemption, through the Son, who enables us to have the Spirit of God permanently.

    Jesus must formally ask for the Spirit on our behalf because only he is qualified to get this for us. And as man, he is showing us his regular dependence upon the Spirit. But in receiving the Spirit anew, in heaven, he is receiving the Spirit in order to give Him to us in a redemptive way. This could only take place after the Cross and after Jesus has ascended on high, where he can distribute this in his omnipotence.

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