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Thread: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

  1. #1
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    Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?" I have my own inclinations, which I may share later, if there is some good input on this.

    I do find that there are many Christians who have been ignorant of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and that includes me. I've been a Pentecostal for many years, but was raised up in the Lutheran Church. So the change in theology, from the classic "salvation of Jesus" to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" brought about some confusion in my mind. Pentecostals, raised up in the Pentecostal tradition, simply accepted the "Spirit Baptism" without thought. But more traditional Christian thought has had to challenge some of their assumptions, as have I.

    One thing I agree with my Pentecostal brethren, however. And that is on the importance of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. We are to be "filled with the Spirit," making melody in our hearts to the Lord and praying continually. We are to walk in the light, and make the most of every opportunity. This is the "Spirit-filled life."

    What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation.

    Christian salvation, therefore, should always be characterized by spiritual living. But we should also rely on the power of the Spirit to proclaim our testimony. We do not need to wait for another Pentecost, however, since the Spirit has already been given both to Jesus and to the Church. What we do need, though, is to be led by the Spirit when we are proclaiming the Gospel, so that it will be carried out in power.

    Any thoughts?

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Since I'm not getting a lot of input, let me add my own. I believe that Jesus was the 1st to receive the Promised Spirit after his resurrection because he was given a special anointing to lead his people into the NT era. Like Moses, who gave Israel the Law to guide them, Jesus received the Spirit, like a prophet of old, to lead his people in NT truths and to proclaim the Gospel of salvation.

    The only thing to recognize, I believe, is that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is like that of a prophet of old. It was a ministry of judgment, hoping that men will repent before judgment falls on them. The world is evil, and the age is evil. Therefore, Jesus would preach to the world in the present age to warn them of coming judgment, just as Jonah warned Nineveh in his own day.

    Yes, the Gospel is all about coming judgment. But it contains the promise that if men repent they will be saved. That is the purpose of the Gospel, to save men by the work that Jesus did for us.

    The reason Jesus gave the Spirit to his Church, then, is both to give us the life of Jesus to live as he did, and to minister in power the truths about the coming judgment. We need to be anointed, like the prophets of old, to carry out a ministry in Jesus' name.

    Rest assured that if you begin to follow Jesus' word, to live as he did, and to declare his word, you will be filled with power to represent him. Men will be convicted, and will be judged by their response. Those who receive your word will be saved. Those who reject your word will be judged. You have tremendous power. Use it, but always try to be a good example.

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?" I have my own inclinations, which I may share later, if there is some good input on this.

    I do find that there are many Christians who have been ignorant of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and that includes me. I've been a Pentecostal for many years, but was raised up in the Lutheran Church. So the change in theology, from the classic "salvation of Jesus" to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" brought about some confusion in my mind. Pentecostals, raised up in the Pentecostal tradition, simply accepted the "Spirit Baptism" without thought. But more traditional Christian thought has had to challenge some of their assumptions, as have I.

    One thing I agree with my Pentecostal brethren, however. And that is on the importance of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. We are to be "filled with the Spirit," making melody in our hearts to the Lord and praying continually. We are to walk in the light, and make the most of every opportunity. This is the "Spirit-filled life."

    What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation.

    Christian salvation, therefore, should always be characterized by spiritual living. But we should also rely on the power of the Spirit to proclaim our testimony. We do not need to wait for another Pentecost, however, since the Spirit has already been given both to Jesus and to the Church. What we do need, though, is to be led by the Spirit when we are proclaiming the Gospel, so that it will be carried out in power.

    Any thoughts?

    First I would like to make a categorical statement. The Holy Spirit, Third Person of the Tri-une God, is God and is, and was, COMPLETE from eternity past. So please, if the following thesis seems un-understandable and seems to contradict this, just scratch the posting as that of a man unable to put forward his understanding intelligibly.

    The Holy Spirit has the main duty within the Tri-une God of APPLYING what the Father has planned and what the Son has realized of that plan. When it comes to God's plan with man, and specifically the Church, the Holy Spirit is the Owner and Possessor of all that God intends to APPLY. So when it comes to the Person of Jesus (and the Name Jesus ALWAYS applies to the Manhood of Jesus), the Holy Spirit is given to Him "without measure" (Jn 3:34) - that is "unlimited". The sum total of what God is is given to Jesus the Man (See Colossians 2:9). But our Lord Jesus was "begotten this DAY" (Ps.2:7; Act.13:33; Heb.1:5). This is a mystery that puts the Eternal God into TIME. And in TIME the Holy Spirit goes through a process. What process?

    God is a Spirit (Jn.4:24) so when Jesus is conceived a NEW THING is added to God - HUMANITY. And when Jesus is born and lives, human birth and human living become the portion of God. And so also with death and resurrection. They are things exclusive to HUMANS. God cannot die and angels cannot die, but mankind can, and do. So the Eternal God, Who is a Spirit, becomes partaker of an experience outside the realm of God - the full HUMAN experience.

    Now, when our Lord is born, His being, His Manhood is started by the Holy Spirit. He overshadows Mary and so that BEING that came forth possessed both 100% humanity and 100% divinity. The MAN Jesus was a Spiritual being from the moment of conception. And He walked His whole life void of the sin nature they we all inherit from Adam, He walked His whole life void of sins, and He walked His whole life with the intrinsic NATURE of the Holy Spirit and all that He is and possesses.

    But for the first 30 years our Lord Jesus, intrinsically God-Man, did no miracles and except for His teaching event at age 12, did not start MINISTERING the things He was sent for. At age 30 He is Baptized and receives the Holy Spirit - NOT FOR LIFE (because He already has that) but for POWER TO DO GOD'S WORK. Luke 4:14 tells us, "And Jesus returned in the POWER of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about." So now, besides the LIFE that our Lord Jesus possessed that led Him through life without sin, He now is IMBUED with the Holy Spirit for POWER.

    The came death and resurrection and the very God of Life, Who cannot die, is able, through the HUMANITY of Christ, to experience human death and human resurrection. In His ALL-POWERFUL existence, the Holy Spirit, in the Person of Jesus, has to raise a man from the dead. John 10:17-18 tells us;

    17 "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
    18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."


    But we seem to have an anomaly in Romans 8:10-11. It reads;

    10 "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."


    Who then was it that raised Jesus from the dead? Was it He, or was it the Holy Spirit? Well, the answer is ... BOTH. How? We have the answer in 1st Corinthians 15:45. "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." But this immediately raises the question I addressed in my first sentence of this posting. Was not the Holy Spirit COMPLETE in all things? How then can the inspired record say "WAS MADE". "Was made" implies that He was not capable, and then something was added to increase His functionality/capability. NO! It is not that Holy Spirit, or that our Lord Jesus, was not capable of raising Himself from the dead for John 10 above tells us He had this authority from His Father. It was more that Jesus the God-Man, added the EXPERIENCE of death, and the overturning of human death, to His repertoire. It was an intrinsic power, that had never been used before because God cannot die, that He put into action and it became His EXPERIMENTALLY.

    And why all this EXPERIENCE. Why did He add this whole human experience to His deity? It was because of His solution to man's falleness. God's solution is intimately bound up with the Tree of Life. God deemed that He would bring man to His destiny by EATING. When we eat something it becomes organically one with us. The pear I ate twenty-four hours ago cannot be identified as a pear. It is absorbed and processed by my organs to become me, nourish me, give me life-preserving vitamins and aid my metabolism. That is, my diet should contain all I need FOR LIFE. The Tree of Life was perfect and good, but now the shedding of blood had become necessary. So a LAMB is set before us. The Lamb sheds its blood and then we eat of this Lamb. And this Lamb MUST CONTAIN the FULL MENU of things that will solve my predicament. God's plan is not to ZAP me from heaven with an outward miracle from a distance. His plan to INFUSE INTO ME a Spirit that has had the TOTAL LIVING PACKAGE that contains
    1. The Substitutionary Sacrifice of Jesus for my sin and sins
    2. The blood for the perfect life of Jesus
    3. The flesh for the perfect humanity of Jesus
    4. The metabolic transformation of my soul
    5. AND the very Spirit that would one day raise me from the dead

    That is why Romans 8:11 states, "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

    And Ephesians 1:13-14 tells us;
    13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."


    That is, the Holy Spirit we receive, and Who dwells in our spirits, CONTAINS the means to raise our bodies one day. And this then brings us to the THIRD aspect of the Holy Spirit - THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT CONTAINS THE FULL HUMAN EXPERIENCE FOR MAKING US LIKE CHRIST.

    Thus, we have
    1. the Holy Spirit FOR DIVINE LIFE to turn us into the image and likeness of Christ
    2. the Holy Spirit for POWER for ministry
    3. the Holy Spirit which was PROCESSED to contain the full human experience to EQUIP the saint for all that is needed for HUMAN LIFE now, and RESURRECTION later

    And it is this THIRD aspect of the Holy Spirit that your verse in the OP addresses. This PROCESSED SPIRIT had to wait for Christ's resurrection to be fully PROCESSED. In TIME, the complete Holy Spirit had to "BE MADE" partaker of resurrection. And only when this full human experience had been added to the Holy Spirit, was it poured out on men. That is why John 7:39 says;

    "(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet (given); because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

    The word "given" is in parenthesis because it does not appear in the original text. But the verse does not mean then that Holy Spirit was not in existence. It means that the Holy Spirit, that we humans would receive, was at the TIME of writing John 7:39, not yet FURNISHED with the human death and human resurrection of Jesus. Later He was, and then the Holy Spirit is poured out for
    1. DIVINE LIFE (Jn.20:22)
    2. POWER for ministry (Lk.24:49; Act.1:8)
    3. TRANSFORMATION into the image of Christ (2nd Co.3:18)
    4. Future RESURRECTION in heavenly glory (1st Jn.3:2)

    God can work from outside. He made Balaam's donkey speak in a human tongue. But the donkey was still a donkey afterwards. For mankind, God does it in a much more clever and refined way. He allows His Son Jesus to EXPERIENCE the full human experience and then INFUSES and APPLIES this Son, in the Person of the Holy Spirit, INTO HIS CHOSEN VESSELS. The whole spiritual experience then starts from INSIDE the man and is accomplished when ALL Christians are "prepared as a Bride".

    "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Romans 8:29)

    God's plan is NOT to predestinate us to go to heaven. It is that who He foreknew, He called, and once we had received and answered the call, we are set upon a road that will lead to us humans being in the image of Christ. And this is done by an INDWELLING SPIRIT Who contains thr FULL PACKAGE of successful human life, death and resurrection.

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    First I would like to make a categorical statement. The Holy Spirit, Third Person of the Tri-une God, is God and is, and was, COMPLETE from eternity past. So please, if the following thesis seems un-understandable and seems to contradict this, just scratch the posting as that of a man unable to put forward his understanding intelligibly.

    The Holy Spirit has the main duty within the Tri-une God of APPLYING what the Father has planned and what the Son has realized of that plan. When it comes to God's plan with man, and specifically the Church, the Holy Spirit is the Owner and Possessor of all that God intends to APPLY. So when it comes to the Person of Jesus (and the Name Jesus ALWAYS applies to the Manhood of Jesus), the Holy Spirit is given to Him "without measure" (Jn 3:34) - that is "unlimited". The sum total of what God is is given to Jesus the Man (See Colossians 2:9). But our Lord Jesus was "begotten this DAY" (Ps.2:7; Act.13:33; Heb.1:5). This is a mystery that puts the Eternal God into TIME. And in TIME the Holy Spirit goes through a process. What process?
    I understand, and I agree. However, I'm referring to the use of the Holy Spirit, and not to who He is. The Holy Spirit was put into use by God in many ways. And there are, I would argue, dispensations of His use. For example, the Prophets of the OT utilized the Holy Spirit to declare their prophecies. But it is an entirely new sense for Jesus to breath upon his disciples the Holy Spirit. They are not just being given the gift of prophecy. Rather, they are being empowered with the ability to be ambassadors for himself!

    And after the resurrection, on the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was given with the intention of providing power to anoint the message of that ambassadorship. In other words, the apostles had already been made ambassadors. But now they were being sent out to proclaim the NT message. This is a new dispensational application of the use of the Holy Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    God is a Spirit (Jn.4:24) so when Jesus is conceived a NEW THING is added to God - HUMANITY. And when Jesus is born and lives, human birth and human living become the portion of God. And so also with death and resurrection. They are things exclusive to HUMANS. God cannot die and angels cannot die, but mankind can, and do. So the Eternal God, Who is a Spirit, becomes partaker of an experience outside the realm of God - the full HUMAN experience.
    I don't believe the "human experience" was outside of the realm of God. Otherwise, God could not have done that with Jesus! If God is infinite, and he is, then He can make Himself present in finite things. That is the very definition of "infinite." The infinite absorbs all finite things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    Now, when our Lord is born, His being, His Manhood is started by the Holy Spirit. He overshadows Mary and so that BEING that came forth possessed both 100% humanity and 100% divinity. The MAN Jesus was a Spiritual being from the moment of conception. And He walked His whole life void of the sin nature they we all inherit from Adam, He walked His whole life void of sins, and He walked His whole life with the intrinsic NATURE of the Holy Spirit and all that He is and possesses.

    But for the first 30 years our Lord Jesus, intrinsically God-Man, did no miracles and except for His teaching event at age 12, did not start MINISTERING the things He was sent for. At age 30 He is Baptized and receives the Holy Spirit - NOT FOR LIFE (because He already has that) but for POWER TO DO GOD'S WORK. Luke 4:14 tells us, "And Jesus returned in the POWER of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about." So now, besides the LIFE that our Lord Jesus possessed that led Him through life without sin, He now is IMBUED with the Holy Spirit for POWER.
    Though the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus as a dove at Jesus' baptism, this was not the "promised coming of the Holy Spirit," which God promised *following* his ascension in glory.

    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    The came death and resurrection and the very God of Life, Who cannot die, is able, through the HUMANITY of Christ, to experience human death and human resurrection. In His ALL-POWERFUL existence, the Holy Spirit, in the Person of Jesus, has to raise a man from the dead. John 10:17-18 tells us;

    17 "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
    18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."


    But we seem to have an anomaly in Romans 8:10-11. It reads;

    10 "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."


    Who then was it that raised Jesus from the dead? Was it He, or was it the Holy Spirit? Well, the answer is ... BOTH. How? We have the answer in 1st Corinthians 15:45. "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." But this immediately raises the question I addressed in my first sentence of this posting. Was not the Holy Spirit COMPLETE in all things? How then can the inspired record say "WAS MADE". "Was made" implies that He was not capable, and then something was added to increase His functionality/capability. NO! It is not that Holy Spirit, or that our Lord Jesus, was not capable of raising Himself from the dead for John 10 above tells us He had this authority from His Father. It was more that Jesus the God-Man, added the EXPERIENCE of death, and the overturning of human death, to His repertoire. It was an intrinsic power, that had never been used before because God cannot die, that He put into action and it became His EXPERIMENTALLY.
    This is irrelevant to the subject. The word "make" does not necessarily contain metaphysical connotations. It only implies a change, which can happen to an eternal Being as to a temporal being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    And why all this EXPERIENCE. Why did He add this whole human experience to His deity? It was because of His solution to man's falleness. God's solution is intimately bound up with the Tree of Life. God deemed that He would bring man to His destiny by EATING. When we eat something it becomes organically one with us. The pear I ate twenty-four hours ago cannot be identified as a pear. It is absorbed and processed by my organs to become me, nourish me, give me life-preserving vitamins and aid my metabolism. That is, my diet should contain all I need FOR LIFE. The Tree of Life was perfect and good, but now the shedding of blood had become necessary. So a LAMB is set before us. The Lamb sheds its blood and then we eat of this Lamb. And this Lamb MUST CONTAIN the FULL MENU of things that will solve my predicament. God's plan is not to ZAP me from heaven with an outward miracle from a distance. His plan to INFUSE INTO ME a Spirit that has had the TOTAL LIVING PACKAGE that contains
    1. The Substitutionary Sacrifice of Jesus for my sin and sins
    2. The blood for the perfect life of Jesus
    3. The flesh for the perfect humanity of Jesus
    4. The metabolic transformation of my soul
    5. AND the very Spirit that would one day raise me from the dead

    That is why Romans 8:11 states, "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

    And Ephesians 1:13-14 tells us;
    13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."
    I absolutely agree with you, but again--this is not the subject. Our intrinsic application of God's Spirit in our lives is essential to our salvation. But it doesn't explain the dispensational differences of the application of the Holy Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    That is, the Holy Spirit we receive, and Who dwells in our spirits, CONTAINS the means to raise our bodies one day. And this then brings us to the THIRD aspect of the Holy Spirit - THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT CONTAINS THE FULL HUMAN EXPERIENCE FOR MAKING US LIKE CHRIST.

    Thus, we have
    1. the Holy Spirit FOR DIVINE LIFE to turn us into the image and likeness of Christ
    2. the Holy Spirit for POWER for ministry
    3. the Holy Spirit which was PROCESSED to contain the full human experience to EQUIP the saint for all that is needed for HUMAN LIFE now, and RESURRECTION later

    And it is this THIRD aspect of the Holy Spirit that your verse in the OP addresses. This PROCESSED SPIRIT had to wait for Christ's resurrection to be fully PROCESSED. In TIME, the complete Holy Spirit had to "BE MADE" partaker of resurrection. And only when this full human experience had been added to the Holy Spirit, was it poured out on men. That is why John 7:39 says;

    "(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet (given); because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
    You see, there are 2 diverse elements that you are here joining into one, which I think is just confusing the argument. We both agree on the essential involvement of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Unless we have Him we cannot be like Christ.

    On the other hand, this does not explain how the Holy Spirit operated in men in the OT and how He operates in the NT with men! Clearly, there is a difference! And we know the difference is the difference between what I call "temporary atonement" in the OT, and final atonement in the NT. Men received the Holy Spirit to be like Jesus under the Law, but did not receive final absolution for their sin nature. But in the NT we receive the Holy Spirit as a confirmation of our full pardon.

    Again, this does not explain everything associated with Pentecost, although it certainly is part of it. So I'm not saying you're way out in left field. On the contrary, it has some relevance, but doesn't point out the essential differences in dispensations, nor does it explain why Pentecost had to follow the ascension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    The word "given" is in parenthesis because it does not appear in the original text. But the verse does not mean then that Holy Spirit was not in existence. It means that the Holy Spirit, that we humans would receive, was at the TIME of writing John 7:39, not yet FURNISHED with the human death and human resurrection of Jesus. Later He was, and then the Holy Spirit is poured out for
    1. DIVINE LIFE (Jn.20:22)
    2. POWER for ministry (Lk.24:49; Act.1:8)
    3. TRANSFORMATION into the image of Christ (2nd Co.3:18)
    4. Future RESURRECTION in heavenly glory (1st Jn.3:2)
    These things were available after the resurrection, and after the cross, were they not? And yet Pentecost did not happen until *after* Jesus was glorified on the right hand of God, right? And I'm just asking, Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls
    God can work from outside. He made Balaam's donkey speak in a human tongue. But the donkey was still a donkey afterwards. For mankind, God does it in a much more clever and refined way. He allows His Son Jesus to EXPERIENCE the full human experience and then INFUSES and APPLIES this Son, in the Person of the Holy Spirit, INTO HIS CHOSEN VESSELS. The whole spiritual experience then starts from INSIDE the man and is accomplished when ALL Christians are "prepared as a Bride".

    "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Romans 8:29)

    God's plan is NOT to predestinate us to go to heaven. It is that who He foreknew, He called, and once we had received and answered the call, we are set upon a road that will lead to us humans being in the image of Christ. And this is done by an INDWELLING SPIRIT Who contains thr FULL PACKAGE of successful human life, death and resurrection.
    I'll leave the "predestination" thing alone!
    Thanks for your comments!

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Jesus, being the First Fruits, received the Spirit first. Itís not complicated.

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I understand, and I agree. However, I'm referring to the use of the Holy Spirit, and not to who He is. The Holy Spirit was put into use by God in many ways. And there are, I would argue, dispensations of His use. For example, the Prophets of the OT utilized the Holy Spirit to declare their prophecies. But it is an entirely new sense for Jesus to breath upon his disciples the Holy Spirit. They are not just being given the gift of prophecy. Rather, they are being empowered with the ability to be ambassadors for himself!

    And after the resurrection, on the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was given with the intention of providing power to anoint the message of that ambassadorship. In other words, the apostles had already been made ambassadors. But now they were being sent out to proclaim the NT message. This is a new dispensational application of the use of the Holy Spirit.



    I don't believe the "human experience" was outside of the realm of God. Otherwise, God could not have done that with Jesus! If God is infinite, and he is, then He can make Himself present in finite things. That is the very definition of "infinite." The infinite absorbs all finite things.



    Though the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus as a dove at Jesus' baptism, this was not the "promised coming of the Holy Spirit," which God promised *following* his ascension in glory.

    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.




    This is irrelevant to the subject. The word "make" does not necessarily contain metaphysical connotations. It only implies a change, which can happen to an eternal Being as to a temporal being.



    I absolutely agree with you, but again--this is not the subject. Our intrinsic application of God's Spirit in our lives is essential to our salvation. But it doesn't explain the dispensational differences of the application of the Holy Spirit.



    You see, there are 2 diverse elements that you are here joining into one, which I think is just confusing the argument. We both agree on the essential involvement of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Unless we have Him we cannot be like Christ.

    On the other hand, this does not explain how the Holy Spirit operated in men in the OT and how He operates in the NT with men! Clearly, there is a difference! And we know the difference is the difference between what I call "temporary atonement" in the OT, and final atonement in the NT. Men received the Holy Spirit to be like Jesus under the Law, but did not receive final absolution for their sin nature. But in the NT we receive the Holy Spirit as a confirmation of our full pardon.

    Again, this does not explain everything associated with Pentecost, although it certainly is part of it. So I'm not saying you're way out in left field. On the contrary, it has some relevance, but doesn't point out the essential differences in dispensations, nor does it explain why Pentecost had to follow the ascension.



    These things were available after the resurrection, and after the cross, were they not? And yet Pentecost did not happen until *after* Jesus was glorified on the right hand of God, right? And I'm just asking, Why?



    I'll leave the "predestination" thing alone!
    Thanks for your comments!
    Sorry I missed the point. You can disregard my notes. You are right. I went over and above the single verse in Acts 2.

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Jesus, being the First Fruits, received the Spirit first. Itís not complicated.
    I'm not so sure. The Spirit that our Lord Jesus received was that One which He gave further to His disciples. It is alluded to in Ephesians 4:7-12.

    7 "But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
    8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
    ...
    11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ
    :"


    And concerning these gifts 1st Corinthians 12:4-6 says;

    4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
    6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all IN all."


    These gifts, in which the whole Tri-une God is involved, are not for Christ. They are for the members of His Body. Also, they are given "according to the measure of the Gift", whereas Christ received the Spirit WITHOUT measure.

  8. #8

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    I believe it has to do with the soul living of man. That is from whence is his being. The first man Adam was made a living soul. From Lev 17:11 literally - for the soul of the flesh is in the blood;

    That was the first man Adam who was the figure of him to come, Jesus, conceived in the virgin Mary and because Joseph knew her not until she brought forth, Jesus was brought forth of the virgin Mary.

    Jesus was born of Mary a living soul with the soul of his flesh being in the blood. For atonement. He would give that life. He would be dead. Just as dead as Adam was after 730 years of life.

    For the Man Jesus to have life again he would need to be regenerated and be renewed with Spirit Holy.

    The baptism shows this very thing. A pictorial prophecy.
    He went down into the water = death
    Came up out of the water = regeneration
    The dove resting on him = renewing of Spirit Holy
    This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased - Thou art my son this day have I begotten thee

    Acts 2:32,33 says the same thing as Titus 3:5,6 It is the baptism of Jesus, of which, we also have to be baptized with.

    The preeminence

  9. #9

    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Being I can not edit, I will add.

    I do not believe the soul/life of the Man Jesus is any longer in the blood but in his Spirit being. John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    Before his resurrection by the Father his soul/life being was in the blood. Through his washing of regeneration, Spirit being, our sins are washed away in his blood, soul/life being.

  10. #10
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Sorry I missed the point. You can disregard my notes. You are right. I went over and above the single verse in Acts 2.
    Not a problem....

  11. #11
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Being I can not edit, I will add.

    I do not believe the soul/life of the Man Jesus is any longer in the blood but in his Spirit being. John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

    Before his resurrection by the Father his soul/life being was in the blood. Through his washing of regeneration, Spirit being, our sins are washed away in his blood, soul/life being.
    I believe our spiritual life is still in the blood. It's just that as Christians Christ has added his spirituality to the life in our blood. We are "regenerated."

  12. #12
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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    I believe it has to do with the soul living of man. That is from whence is his being. The first man Adam was made a living soul. From Lev 17:11 literally - for the soul of the flesh is in the blood;

    That was the first man Adam who was the figure of him to come, Jesus, conceived in the virgin Mary and because Joseph knew her not until she brought forth, Jesus was brought forth of the virgin Mary.

    Jesus was born of Mary a living soul with the soul of his flesh being in the blood. For atonement. He would give that life. He would be dead. Just as dead as Adam was after 730 years of life.

    For the Man Jesus to have life again he would need to be regenerated and be renewed with Spirit Holy.

    The baptism shows this very thing. A pictorial prophecy.
    He went down into the water = death
    Came up out of the water = regeneration
    The dove resting on him = renewing of Spirit Holy
    This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased - Thou art my son this day have I begotten thee

    Acts 2:32,33 says the same thing as Titus 3:5,6 It is the baptism of Jesus, of which, we also have to be baptized with.

    The preeminence
    I agree that we need to be regenerated through Jesus. That may be the reason the Holy Spirit is poured out only *after* the ascension. That is when the atoning work of Christ was applied from on High to all believers. It is at that point that we became ambassadors of the New Covenant.

    The earlier outpourings/workings of the Holy Spirit had to do with a time prior to the New Covenant of Christ. God was, of course, active in those times. But there had to be a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit after Christ was seated on the right hand of God, so that the New Covenant could be proclaimed with power.

    In the ministry of Jesus on earth, he sent out his apostles with spiritual power and anointing. But the New Covenant was not yet. This was a healing work of Christ, as well as a forgiving work of Christ. It was also a ministry of repentance, even though it was still under the Law.

    But after Pentecost, God's People were sent out with a new mission, with redemption having been completed by Christ. Thanks for your input!

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Jesus, being the First Fruits, received the Spirit first. It’s not complicated.
    And He is our example. He had to do many things as a man to show us how to live. Watching Him live a Spirit filled life makes Him the perfect example for us.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    Jesus, being the First Fruits, received the Spirit first. Itís not complicated.
    It may be that people have made it complicated by proposing all kinds of things? Was the Spirit in operation in the OT, and if so, how? Why is the Spirit poured out on Jesus' disciples *before* Pentecost, and why again
    *afterwards?*

    I raised the questions because there has been a lot of confusion even here on this forum over the difference of the two dispensations, OT and NT. Certainly, the outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost signaled a new era, quite different from the previous era? And I think Jesus not only had to be raised from the dead, but also had to be raised to the right hand of God, in order to administer this new outpouring of the Spirit.

    When we think of Jesus as the "first fruits," we often think in terms of his being the 1st to rise from the dead, never to die again. Others were raised from the dead in their old bodies, and still had to die. Enoch and Elijah went up to heaven without dying, but still had to die in their old bodies.

    But Jesus is a different kind of "first fruit," because in his resurrection he never had to die again. He has done all this to pave the way for us, so that we also may be resurrected to bodies that never again have to die.

    But this doesn't identify the role of the Spirit in the various phases, or dispensations. That's what I was referring to. If this is still simple for you, great. We want to keep it simple, right?

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    Re: Why the Spirit is given to Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Acts 2.33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Do you have an explanation as to why God the Father gave Jesus the "promised Holy Spirit" after he had been "exalted to the right hand of God?" I have my own inclinations, which I may share later, if there is some good input on this.

    I do find that there are many Christians who have been ignorant of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, and that includes me. I've been a Pentecostal for many years, but was raised up in the Lutheran Church. So the change in theology, from the classic "salvation of Jesus" to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" brought about some confusion in my mind. Pentecostals, raised up in the Pentecostal tradition, simply accepted the "Spirit Baptism" without thought. But more traditional Christian thought has had to challenge some of their assumptions, as have I.

    One thing I agree with my Pentecostal brethren, however. And that is on the importance of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life. We are to be "filled with the Spirit," making melody in our hearts to the Lord and praying continually. We are to walk in the light, and make the most of every opportunity. This is the "Spirit-filled life."

    What I'd like to say initially, however, is that Jesus walked in the Spirit before he "received the promised Holy Spirit." And prophets in the OT also "spoke by the Spirit of God." So the Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a special anointing upon the Church to preach the Gospel, just as the prophets of old received the power of the Holy Spirit to proclaim the word of God to their own generation.

    Christian salvation, therefore, should always be characterized by spiritual living. But we should also rely on the power of the Spirit to proclaim our testimony. We do not need to wait for another Pentecost, however, since the Spirit has already been given both to Jesus and to the Church. What we do need, though, is to be led by the Spirit when we are proclaiming the Gospel, so that it will be carried out in power.

    Any thoughts?
    I don't think he received the Spirit after the ascension, in any case.

    ESV
    Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.

    Many other translations are similar, just stating he had (previously) received the Spirit.

    Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
    Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
    Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
    Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Clearly, Jesus had the Spirit.

    We see 2 different things in Acts 2.33.
    1. Jesus received the Spirit of Promise
    2. What you see here

    IOW, he who received the Spirit is behind what you are seeing now.

    These are not the same thing. There is the initial receiving of the Spirit/being born again, then there is the pouring of the Spirit. They have different purposes.

    Why would the glorified Lord need to receive the Spirit of Promise? No reason at all.

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