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Thread: Moses and God and ministry

  1. #1
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    Moses and God and ministry

    Moses was a King in Egypt, but became a shepherd in the wilderness. He learned to lead a flock. After learning to be a shepherd, God used him to lead Israel, God's flock. There was a time when the Lord got agitated (a soft word considering the circumstances) with Israel and told Moses something astounding.

    Exodus 33:1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, "Depart, go up from here, you and the people whom you have brought up from the land of Egypt, to the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, 'To your descendants I will give it.' 2 "I will send an angel before you and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3 "Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, because you are an obstinate people, and I might destroy you on the way."

    He told Moses that He would help Israel come into the life of fullness! He would help them overcome the strongholds in battle. They would conquer the promised land. BUT, God would not go with them. Instead, He would send His angel ahead of them.

    Moses had the chance to minister to people. To help them. To help bring them into God's promises. To help them overcome the strongholds in their lives. But it would be done, without God! That was the offer that God made to Moses. Basically, God was saying "I'll honor my word. I will keep my promises to you and to the people. But I am not going to be with you." What a terrifying thought! A life of fullness in the natural, and even victory over my strongholds, but without the presence of God.

    Moses, a man who loved God said this later in the chapter:

    Exodus 33:12 Then Moses said to the Lord, "See, You say to me, 'Bring up this people!' But You Yourself have not let me know whom You will send with me. Moreover, You have said, 'I have known you by name, and you have also found favor in My sight.' 13 "Now therefore, I pray You, if I have found favor in Your sight, let me know Your ways that I may know You, so that I may find favor in Your sight. Consider too, that this nation is Your people." 14 And He said, "My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest." 15 Then he said to Him, "If Your presence does not go with us, do not lead us up from here. 16 "For how then can it be known that I have found favor in Your sight, I and Your people? Is it not by Your going with us, so that we, I and Your people, may be distinguished from all the other people who are upon the face of the earth?"

    Moses did not want ministry that improved people's lives without God being there too. Also, Moses readily admitted that He did not understand why God was behaving as He did and asked God to help him learn His ways. God granted all that was in Moses' heart. His presence went with Moses and Moses learned God's heart, His ways. The Psalmist said that Moses knew God's ways and Israel knew His acts.

    As ministers of the gospel, we can move forward in ministry and see God help people. He will send His angel to enforce His word. People will get set free. They will get saved, delivered, overcome their strongholds, but all that can happen without God being with us in His manifest presence. Let us be careful that we do not move out to build our ministry, or to solely improve people's spiritual lives, etc. For ultimately, the main purpose, is to make sure we are intimate with God, with His heart, with His ways, and that when it comes to others, we minister WITH Him (or more accurately, He ministers while we walk with Him) rather than ministering just so mankind can have a better spiritual life, or be improved, or our own reputation, or for a blessing to "our" ministry, or even just "FOR" Him as He keeps His promises and enforces His word.

    Written in fear and trembling.

    God bless!
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  2. #2
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    Re: Moses and God and ministry

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Moses was a King in Egypt, but became a shepherd in the wilderness. He learned to lead a flock. After learning to be a shepherd, God used him to lead Israel, God's flock. There was a time when the Lord got agitated (a soft word considering the circumstances) with Israel and told Moses something astounding.

    Exodus 33:1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, "Depart, go up from here, you and the people whom you have brought up from the land of Egypt, to the land of which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, 'To your descendants I will give it.' 2 "I will send an angel before you and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite. 3 "Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey; for I will not go up in your midst, because you are an obstinate people, and I might destroy you on the way."

    He told Moses that He would help Israel come into the life of fullness! He would help them overcome the strongholds in battle. They would conquer the promised land. BUT, God would not go with them. Instead, He would send His angel ahead of them.

    Moses had the chance to minister to people. To help them. To help bring them into God's promises. To help them overcome the strongholds in their lives. But it would be done, without God! That was the offer that God made to Moses. Basically, God was saying "I'll honor my word. I will keep my promises to you and to the people. But I am not going to be with you." What a terrifying thought! A life of fullness in the natural, and even victory over my strongholds, but without the presence of God.

    Moses, a man who loved God said this later in the chapter:

    Exodus 33:12 Then Moses said to the Lord, "See, You say to me, 'Bring up this people!' But You Yourself have not let me know whom You will send with me. Moreover, You have said, 'I have known you by name, and you have also found favor in My sight.' 13 "Now therefore, I pray You, if I have found favor in Your sight, let me know Your ways that I may know You, so that I may find favor in Your sight. Consider too, that this nation is Your people." 14 And He said, "My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest." 15 Then he said to Him, "If Your presence does not go with us, do not lead us up from here. 16 "For how then can it be known that I have found favor in Your sight, I and Your people? Is it not by Your going with us, so that we, I and Your people, may be distinguished from all the other people who are upon the face of the earth?"

    Moses did not want ministry that improved people's lives without God being there too. Also, Moses readily admitted that He did not understand why God was behaving as He did and asked God to help him learn His ways. God granted all that was in Moses' heart. His presence went with Moses and Moses learned God's heart, His ways. The Psalmist said that Moses knew God's ways and Israel knew His acts.

    As ministers of the gospel, we can move forward in ministry and see God help people. He will send His angel to enforce His word. People will get set free. They will get saved, delivered, overcome their strongholds, but all that can happen without God being with us in His manifest presence. Let us be careful that we do not move out to build our ministry, or to solely improve people's spiritual lives, etc. For ultimately, the main purpose, is to make sure we are intimate with God, with His heart, with His ways, and that when it comes to others, we minister WITH Him (or more accurately, He ministers while we walk with Him) rather than ministering just so mankind can have a better spiritual life, or be improved, or our own reputation, or for a blessing to "our" ministry, or even just "FOR" Him as He keeps His promises and enforces His word.

    Written in fear and trembling.

    God bless!
    Mark, I think God was recognizing the fact that in an entire nation there are many who have no interest in the things of God. And yet God had to call the whole nation in order to secure a few devoted followers. That's why, I believe, God couldn't go with the nation, because with so many irreligious people, whose worship was purely external, God could not bless the whole nation with His presence, except in token form in the tabernacle.

    None of this means God doesn't want to make Himself known to individuals. He certainly did that with Moses. But it means that most people go through the ceremonies and rituals without genuine faith--the kind of faith that produces the works of faith.

    And so, what we can learn from this is that if we are to find favor with God, it will not be by joining in with the nation in practicing hollow ceremonies and rituals. Rather, it will be by seeking God personally. Then God will dwell with us, even if He will not indwell the collective.

    If we have a good church I believe God will, in fact, indwell the collective, because that's what God wants. The reason, I believe, God called a nation is because that is precisely what He wants, to indwell the collective--not just individuals. There is nothing more glorious than God's dwelling in His collective people!

    It is God dwelling with us that indicates God's favor towards us. If favor with God is what we want we should pursue God, even at the loss of popularity with the group. We must look beyond the shallow services of men who do religious works and worship ceremonially, and yet lack what really matters--the presence of God.

  3. #3
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    Re: Moses and God and ministry

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Mark, I think God was recognizing the fact that in an entire nation there are many who have no interest in the things of God. And yet God had to call the whole nation in order to secure a few devoted followers. That's why, I believe, God couldn't go with the nation, because with so many irreligious people, whose worship was purely external, God could not bless the whole nation with His presence, except in token form in the tabernacle.
    Hey brother Randy. Thank you for taking time to post. In the end, God's presence did go up with Israel. Moses asked God to not lead them anywhere, unless He went with them and the Lord answered that payer.

    Exodus 33:14 And He said, "My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest."

    None of this means God doesn't want to make Himself known to individuals. He certainly did that with Moses. But it means that most people go through the ceremonies and rituals without genuine faith--the kind of faith that produces the works of faith.

    And so, what we can learn from this is that if we are to find favor with God, it will not be by joining in with the nation in practicing hollow ceremonies and rituals. Rather, it will be by seeking God personally. Then God will dwell with us, even if He will not indwell the collective.

    If we have a good church I believe God will, in fact, indwell the collective, because that's what God wants. The reason, I believe, God called a nation is because that is precisely what He wants, to indwell the collective--not just individuals. There is nothing more glorious than God's dwelling in His collective people!

    It is God dwelling with us that indicates God's favor towards us. If favor with God is what we want we should pursue God, even at the loss of popularity with the group. We must look beyond the shallow services of men who do religious works and worship ceremonially, and yet lack what really matters--the presence of God.
    Amen! Of course, I see Israel as a type of one believer more than I do as a multitude. For in our heart, there's a mixture. What put a real "fear of God" in my heart about this passage, was that it seemed possible to me, to lead people into some victories, to help them overcome issues of the heart (i.e. anger, lust, etc.). But we could do that and not have real intimacy with God... to never come to know Him and His heart intimately... to never really enjoy His manifest presence.

    That to me, would be a mostly wasted ministry! For ultimately, the entire journey is about knowing Him. It is easy to want the benefits of the relationship (i.e. natural blessings, and healing of the heart/soul, etc.), without the intimacy of the relationship. However, our exceeding great reward, is God Himself. And to me, to only know His blessings, His hand, without knowing His heart would be great loss!
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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