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Thread: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

  1. #31
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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    She is Jerusalem.
    She is not the literal city of Jerusalem, she is the mystical city of Jerusalem, which is Zion. The name of Zion in spiritual destitution is Ariel. That is to say, when Zion breaks away from God, she is no longer known by that name, she is cast off and "divorced" from her husband for her idolatry.

    But the redemptive work of God as a redeemer king is to restore and save Zion/Ariel from her temptation and idolatry, dying for her if necessary, to release her from the bondage to sin, and into an everlasting relationship with him as the glorious city of Zion.

    God speaks through the prophets about Zion as the place where the faithful people of God live, but whenever the social and cultural environment around the people of God no longer shows the relationship with God through the customary signs of marriage (goodness, love, modesty, loyalty, wedding garments, which go with being the wife of a king) that's when God calls Jerusalem's creditors and foes to consume her.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  2. #32
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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    She is not the literal city of Jerusalem, she is the mystical city of Jerusalem, which is Zion. The name of Zion in spiritual destitution is Ariel. That is to say, when Zion breaks away from God, she is no longer known by that name, she is cast off and "divorced" from her husband for her idolatry.

    But the redemptive work of God as a redeemer king is to restore and save Zion/Ariel from her temptation and idolatry, dying for her if necessary, to release her from the bondage to sin, and into an everlasting relationship with him as the glorious city of Zion.

    God speaks through the prophets about Zion as the place where the faithful people of God live, but whenever the social and cultural environment around the people of God no longer shows the relationship with God through the customary signs of marriage (goodness, love, modesty, loyalty, wedding garments, which go with being the wife of a king) that's when God calls Jerusalem's creditors and foes to consume her.
    LOL. You certainly did not get this out of Revelation. This is nothing but a little fact mixed with a lot of fiction. Babylon is precisely what chapters 17 and 18 describe her to be - Jerusalem of old.

  3. #33
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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    LOL. You certainly did not get this out of Revelation. This is nothing but a little fact mixed with a lot of fiction. Babylon is precisely what chapters 17 and 18 describe her to be - Jerusalem of old.
    Can it be Jerusalem OF NEW?

  4. #34
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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    She is not the literal city of Jerusalem, she is the mystical city of Jerusalem, which is Zion. The name of Zion in spiritual destitution is Ariel. That is to say, when Zion breaks away from God, she is no longer known by that name, she is cast off and "divorced" from her husband for her idolatry.

    But the redemptive work of God as a redeemer king is to restore and save Zion/Ariel from her temptation and idolatry, dying for her if necessary, to release her from the bondage to sin, and into an everlasting relationship with him as the glorious city of Zion.

    God speaks through the prophets about Zion as the place where the faithful people of God live, but whenever the social and cultural environment around the people of God no longer shows the relationship with God through the customary signs of marriage (goodness, love, modesty, loyalty, wedding garments, which go with being the wife of a king) that's when God calls Jerusalem's creditors and foes to consume her.
    I agree with your analogy somewhat. I see the woman as a literal city future Jerusalem which is located within Zion Rev 12 but leaves her closet to earth whereby she ends up committing fornication Rev 17 and then later redemption Rev 21.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    As I've said elsewhere, this is explained as a correlation between Rev 13 and Dan 7. The 4th beast of Dan 7 is the beast of Rev 13. This is the final beast on earth before the coming of the Kingdom of God.
    Absolutely. Notice though the origin of this final kingdom... The kings comes from HELL.

    You may ask how an empire that seemed to fall in 476 AD could've led to the coming of God's Kingdom? Quite simply, in the prophecy in Dan 7, the 4th beast breaks up into 10 nations. Indeed, the Roman Imperial Tradition has continued through much of NT history, and has indeed broken up into a number of states, several of which have claimed to be heir to this imperial tradition. Ultimately, 10 nations will united around the "little horn" of Dan 7, aka the Antichrist.

    The religious element in the Roman tradition consisted of paganism and emperor worship. This has been the regular temptress of Western civilization, which has ultimately capitulated to a plurality of religions, and to outright paganism. It won't be long until Europe is willing to worship its central political figure, the Antichrist.
    Now I say the kings comes from HELL but the city comes from heaven.

    How would it be called fornication if the city were just some other earthly city. That would not be called fornication. Fornication gives a sense that this woman was to be espoused to another.

  6. #36

    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    No one has mentioned New York City. Things may change in the future but as it stands right now NYC is the obvious candidate—for Revelation 18 at least. Remember the shock when two buildings were knocked down on 9-11; imagine the horror if the whole city fell.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Can it be Jerusalem OF NEW?
    Let me hear you out on why you would think in may the New Jerusalem.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Absolutely. Notice though the origin of this final kingdom... The kings comes from HELL.



    Now I say the kings comes from HELL but the city comes from heaven.

    How would it be called fornication if the city were just some other earthly city. That would not be called fornication. Fornication gives a sense that this woman was to be espoused to another.
    So you're saying the Roman kings originate from Hell? I can certainly see how they're inspired by Hell! Certainly there are demonic forces from Hell that drive these kings!

    The reason I feel Rome is the earthly city that commits fornication is because the term "fornication" is being used metaphorically for religious corruption. The influence of Christianity within the Roman Empire had not yet happened in the time this was written. But over the centuries Roman civilization has come to be completely dominated by Christianity.

    Nevertheless, beneath the Christian veneer has been a perseverance of original Roman religious corruption. And we've seen that corruption take hold in the Enlightenment, and following.

    The reemergence of ancient Roman paganism seems to be the fulfillment of Mystery Babylon, to me. Even before Antichrist rises, the Christian culture of Roman civilization is being corrupted and destroyed. I don't know if you believe in a *future* Antichrist, but you can't deny that Rome is still having its old pagan impact on Christianity today?

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    Let me hear you out on why you would think in may the New Jerusalem.
    The woman in Rev 12, Rev 17, and Rev 21 are in fact the same woman.

    Satan needs this woman for his deception

    Satan knowing that if his claims to be accepted as him being the Messiah he needs to be presented along with this woman. If He were to claim to be king from any other city, he would or should be known to be a fraud. Thus the reason Satan works to get her out from heaven unto earth. And we see that this woman does flee heaven to the wilderness, wilderness being the earth Rev 12.

    Her appearance

    A quick read of the characteristics of this woman should give the reader a double take. We see she is dressed like the heavenly woman, gold, jewels, pearls. In addition, she is central to the world provided all needed to it's inhabitants. And the king whom committed fornication is dressed in scarlet.

    Her history as a whore

    Only one woman has been described as such in the scriptures, Jerusalem. Described as a boastful prideful woman committing adultery being a whore and claiming she is no widow. Jerusalem has killed the prophets. The mere fact that she commits fornication should tell you she was espoused to another but joins with one she should have not. Imagine God's anger, Satan himself together with his woman!!!


    So we have seen the record of old Jerusalem, it's wickedness and abominations, it's whoredoms. Unfortunately the heavenly city to represent such also will also fall to fornication. However like the earth, heavens, and ourselves she shall be purified thru fire and redeemed.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    So you're saying the Roman kings originate from Hell?
    No, the kings originate from hell, they are not Roman in nature. They are these kings....

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    This evil kingdom comes upon earth.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The woman in Rev 12, Rev 17, and Rev 21 are in fact the same woman.

    Satan needs this woman for his deception

    Satan knowing that if his claims to be accepted as him being the Messiah he needs to be presented along with this woman. If He were to claim to be king from any other city, he would or should be known to be a fraud. Thus the reason Satan works to get her out from heaven unto earth. And we see that this woman does flee heaven to the wilderness, wilderness being the earth Rev 12.

    Her appearance

    A quick read of the characteristics of this woman should give the reader a double take. We see she is dressed like the heavenly woman, gold, jewels, pearls. In addition, she is central to the world provided all needed to it's inhabitants. And the king whom committed fornication is dressed in scarlet.

    Her history as a whore

    Only one woman has been described as such in the scriptures, Jerusalem. Described as a boastful prideful woman committing adultery being a whore and claiming she is no widow. Jerusalem has killed the prophets. The mere fact that she commits fornication should tell you she was espoused to another but joins with one she should have not. Imagine God's anger, Satan himself together with his woman!!!


    So we have seen the record of old Jerusalem, it's wickedness and abominations, it's whoredoms. Unfortunately the heavenly city to represent such also will also fall to fornication. However like the earth, heavens, and ourselves she shall be purified thru fire and redeemed.
    What you say about Jerusalem as a matter of biblical history is true but, this does not explain how Babylon can possibly be represented as the New Jerusalem.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    The woman in Rev 12, Rev 17, and Rev 21 are in fact the same woman.
    The woman in Rev 12 is the mother of the child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. So you really think that woman who the mother is the mother of her child that was caught up unto God, and to his throne is same woman as the woman in Rev 17 & 21?

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    The woman in Rev 12, Rev 17, and Rev 21 are in fact the same woman.
    The woman in Rev 12 is the mother of the child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. So you really think that woman who the mother is the mother of her child that was caught up unto God, and to his throne is same woman as the woman in Rev 17 & 21?

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The woman in Rev 12, Rev 17, and Rev 21 are in fact the same woman.
    The bride of Christ is not the whore Babylon. They are two very different symbolic women. One represents the saved, one the unsaved.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The woman in Rev 12, Rev 17, and Rev 21 are in fact the same woman.
    The bride of Christ is not the whore Babylon. They are two very different symbolic women. One represents the saved, one the unsaved.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The bride of Christ is not the whore Babylon. They are two very different symbolic women. One represents the saved, one the unsaved.
    Who is the woman in the wilderness Rev 12?

    Who is the woman in the wilderness Rev 17?

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    The woman in Rev 12 is the mother of the child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. So you really think that woman who the mother is the mother of her child that was caught up unto God, and to his throne is same woman as the woman in Rev 17 & 21?

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    Let's start by stating the "mother" is not Mary, agree. The woman is a city not a physical woman. The woman is Jerusalem. The whole picture of the vision including sun, moon, stars represents Zion. Now this woman flees heaven and comes down to earth (wilderness).

    Gal 4:26
    But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.


    So my question to you is there two different woman in the same wilderness at the same time?

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