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Thread: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

  1. #61
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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    Gods word always has the understanding of Gods word.
    Somehow this is both true and contradictory at the same time.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #62

    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Somehow this is both true and contradictory at the same time.

    Not at all contradictory, it's just scattered throughout the scriptures ....

    heres what I mean another example of the man child


    And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: <<< Israel

    And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?”
    **Genesis‬ *37:9-10‬ *KJV‬‬

    if you don't understand the connection, Joseph is one son of Israel ( Jacob) there are eleven others represented here in his dream by stars, the sun represents Jacob, and the moon his wife. It's a representation of glorified Israel, when God took them as his own.



    ....And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. ....<<< this because prophecy promised a son would be born who would rule all nations, Israel was expecting the Christ's birth.

    And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.”
    **Revelation‬ *12:1-4‬ *KJV‬‬

    Remember Satan ( the dragon ) is a spiritual being, he works through man to do his will.....

    “Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? ....... And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.


    .... And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.<<< so devious obviously satans spirit...

    ....And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

    And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.”
    **Matthew‬ *2:1-8, 12-13, 15‬ *KJV‬‬

    Satan was trying to destroy the Christ through Herod, because the Christ was already foretold that a son would be born, and would rule all nations with the rod of his mouth, iron, unbreakable.

    “And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
    **Revelation‬ *12:5‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature

    (showing his rule over all nations, see also Matthew 28:18-20.)....."So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.” He is caught up to God and his throne.....
    **Mark‬ *16:15, 19‬ *KJV‬‬


    that's just a quick example of what I mean. Revelation is not like the other books , it isn't a historical record, it's not chronological either. In it were seeing things revealed in heaven, and how they are affecting the earth. I understand most see it as everything written in revelation is only for future events...but John is told something some miss while the intent of the book is to reveal things to come, everything there is not future, the whole book has a " past, present and future " aspect it's why johns told to


    “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ( past present future)

    Write the things which thou hast seen, ( past) and the things which are, ( present) and the things which shall be hereafter;” (future)
    **Revelation‬ *1:8, 19‬ *KJV‬‬


    it's better grasped through the prophets, and the gospel.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Uh, Israel existed long before Jerusalem did so there is no way Jerusalem gave birth to Israel.
    It is not earthly Jerusalem. But the heavenly daughter Jerusalem, the daughter of Zion which will come to the earth as seen in Rev 12.

    Lam 2
    1 How hath the Lord covered the daughter of Zion with a cloud in his anger, and cast down from heaven unto the earth the beauty of Israel, and remembered not his footstool in the day of his anger!
    2 The Lord hath swallowed up all the habitations of Jacob, and hath not pitied: he hath thrown down in his wrath the strong holds of the daughter of Judah; he hath brought them down to the ground: he hath polluted the kingdom and the princes thereof.
    3 He hath cut off in his fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, which devoureth round about.
    4 He hath bent his bow like an enemy: he stood with his right hand as an adversary, and slew all that were pleasant to the eye in the tabernacle of the daughter of Zion: he poured out his fury like fire.
    5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.
    6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the Lord hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.
    7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the Lord, as in the day of a solemn feast.
    8 The Lord hath purposed to destroy the wall of the daughter of Zion: he hath stretched out a line, he hath not withdrawn his hand from destroying: therefore he made the rampart and the wall to lament; they languished together.
    9 Her gates are sunk into the ground; he hath destroyed and broken her bars: her king and her princes are among the Gentiles: the law is no more; her prophets also find no vision from the Lord.
    10 The elders of the daughter of Zion sit upon the ground, and keep silence: they have cast up dust upon their heads; they have girded themselves with sackcloth: the virgins of Jerusalem hang down their heads to the ground.
    11 Mine eyes do fail with tears, my bowels are troubled, my liver is poured upon the earth, for the destruction of the daughter of my people; because the children and the sucklings swoon in the streets of the city.
    12 They say to their mothers, Where is corn and wine? when they swooned as the wounded in the streets of the city, when their soul was poured out into their mothers' bosom.
    13 What thing shall I take to witness for thee? what thing shall I liken to thee, O daughter of Jerusalem? what shall I equal to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin daughter of Zion? for thy breach is great like the sea: who can heal thee?
    14 Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.
    15 All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth?




    Rev 12
    1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    Rev 17
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    What you say about Jerusalem as a matter of biblical history is true but, this does not explain how Babylon can possibly be represented as the New Jerusalem.
    Let me clarify, the woman is a daughter, the daughter of Zion. However this daughter, this woman, will become a NEW woman once redeemed.

    The total image in Rev 12 is Zion, the woman herself is the daughter. As I noted in previous post, Lamentations 2.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Your question: Would not the woman be a city?

    If that's the way for you to look at it, which makes the most sense to you regarding the scriptures, then I don't know that I would argue too much to convince otherwise. But I think the best way to view it would be as the church of the old covenant. But Zion probably fits the best description. The woman is the people of Israel whom God has chosen as his people. Not merely the people, but the covenant that God made with them as his chosen people.

    Consider this; metaphorically speaking, the woman of Rev 12 is God's wife.

    Your Question: But is Jesus in view as the "man" child? Was Israel to rule the nations?

    Rev 2:27
    "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."

    So yes! Jesus is the man child who was to rule the world with a rod of iron. And he was caught up unto God and to his throne. This is Jesus and only Jesus.
    The woman is the daughter of Zion. heavenly Jerusalem, a city. See post 63.

    The man child is her children, which shall be the house of Israel.

    IS 66
    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
    9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
    10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:

  6. #66
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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3500473]




    The woman is the daughter of Zion. heavenly Jerusalem, a city. See post 63.

    The man child is her children, which shall be the house of Israel.

    IS 66
    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
    9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
    10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
    No, the woman is Zion. This is the same prophecy regarding the woman, the man child (verse 7) and the remnant of the woman's seed (verse 8). All three are included in this prophecy.

    Rev 12:17
    "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

    IS 66
    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
    9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
    10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    The woman has been correctly called the Church by most commentaries.


    The woman is a city. A Woman has been referenced a city all thru the OT and we have a woman stated a city in Revelation. A woman is directly called a city In rev 17, but somehow is to be translated to a "church" in Rev 12.????

    The woman is the daughter of Zion.

    Whereas the man child is definitely Jesus.
    Nowhere is Jesus called a "man child". IS 66 says the "man child" are the children of this woman.

    Notice the wording "WAS to rule". Meaning was to rule but will not.

    Why were Israel given "rods" in Numbers? Were they to rule but failed?

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    [QUOTE=TMarcum;3500477]
    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    No, the woman is Zion.
    OK. Zion, the daughter of Zion.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3500482]
    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post

    OK. Zion, the daughter of Zion.
    It may help if you consider it this way:

    The Woman brought forth the man child and he was caught up to God and his throne.
    Rev 12:5
    "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

    When Christ was crucified and resurrected, he entered the kingdom of Heaven and took his seat on the throne on the right hand of God. Only then, as he was caught up to God and his throne, was the Woman's children brought forth, being the remnant of the woman's seed.
    Rev 12:17
    "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

    Without the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, there is no seed of the Woman. The seed is the new grace covenant church of today and Christ (which is the head of the corner being the chief cornerstone of the foundation) died for her. In the resurrection, is returning for her to take her home to the place he has prepared.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    When Christ was crucified and resurrected, he entered the kingdom of Heaven and took his seat on the throne on the right hand of God. Only then, as he was caught up to God and his throne, was the Woman's children brought forth, being the remnant of the woman's seed.
    So the woman's children were brought forth upon the crucifixion? It does not appear there is some 2000+ gap in Rev 12 from the supposed crucifixion till the Satan making war with the remnant......

    Rather IS 66 gives understanding on the man child. Israel.

    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
    9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
    10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:


    The seed is the new grace covenant church of today and Christ
    The seed are those which keep his commandments a remnant of Israel not the church.

    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I just watched a video by Bill Salus in which he presents some ideas which I've never heard put exactly this way before.

    He says Mystery Babylon in Revelation 17 is Vatican City and the Catholic Church. The Antichrist will tolerate her until he's acquired enough power then ultimately destroy her.

    The second beast of Revelation 13 is the False Prophet, a religious leader the Antichrist will install to replace the Pope. In this sense he'll have two horns of a lamb but speak as a dragon.

    Greater Rome will be the great city Babylon described in Revelation 18. Rome doesn't seem to fit this description of a great commercial center right now but it might in the future.
    Mystery Babylon is not the Roman Catholic church as commonly propagated. The prophecy itself is self-explanatory because the text says “And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns (Rev 17:7).

    The angel went on to explain the Seven-headed Beast. This is about the Seven Rulers who arise, i.e. seven kings and had direct influence over Israel. In Rev 17:9 we are told that she sits on Seven Mountains which denotes seven kings: IOW, it is seven heads or kingdoms. We are told also that five of these kings or kingdoms have fallen, but One is and one is yet to come.

    In Dan 7, the beasts were described as follows; the Lion is Babylon, the Bear is Persia and the Leopard is Greece. Rome is represented mainly as the Beast/Dragon. The concept and understanding of the term “Beast” were made popular in the Book of Daniel and denotes the brutal powers/kingdoms that at one time or another subjugated, oppressed and ruled Daniel’s people, the Jews. Since we are told that Five has fallen (no longer exist). Religious history easily confirms the FIVE as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece. One is (that is, still standing at the time John saw the visions) and is easily identified at the Roman empire.

    The one that is yet to come is the Beast of Revelation 13. This the Antichrist and his 10 kings (who will conquer Israel in the end-times according to Zech 14:2 and set up the AoD). It is noteworthy that after Israel’s dispersal in 70AD, there was no beast over them since according to Ezekiel 37 they were “dry bones”. They only came back to life in 1948 when they once again, inhabited their ancestral land. So the beast to come is the end-time Antichrist.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So the woman's children were brought forth upon the crucifixion? It does not appear there is some 2000+ gap in Rev 12 from the supposed crucifixion till the Satan making war with the remnant......


    The seed are those which keep his commandments a remnant of Israel not the church.

    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    How did you come up with 2000+ years anyway?

    Satan made war with the Woman. His tail drew 1/3 of the stars from heaven and then stood before the Woman ready to devour the child as soon as it was born. Numerous times Satan tried to kill Jesus before his time. Herod was the 1st when Jesus was a baby. How many other times did the Jews try to get their hands on him, but he escaped out of their hands? So, Satan did not devour him.
    REV 12:4
    "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."



    Then the text goes on to say, she delivered the man child and he was caught up unto God, and to his throne. It appears you are having a problem accepting the work Jesus did on the cross.

    Rev 12:5
    And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    OK, then lets go on: lets talk more about this war. Now we're seeing the name Michael and his angles and that they fought against the dragon. Can you see now that the focus is not on the Woman, but on Michael and his angles. The war was started with the woman and now turned over to the hands of Michael and his angles? Can you see who won the war? And that Satan was defeated and cast out into the earth and his angles with him?

    Rev 12:
    7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



    What happens next?
    * Now is come salvation (When do you suppose salvation came? 2000 years in the future after Christ died?)
    * Now is come the kingdom of our God (When do you suppose the kingdom of God is come? Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."
    * Now is come the power of his Christ (When did Christ come into his kingdom with power and glory and take his seat on his throne on the right hand of God?)

    Rev 12:10
    "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."



    How did Michael and his angles overcome? They overcame by the blood of Jesus and his angles by word of their testimony. Who do you think his angels were? Stating from John the Baptist and with his Apostles. They all died as martyrs. The bible says, the foundation of the church is based on the prophets and apostles and Jesus Christ the Chief Corner Stone (Eph 2:20). This is who his angels were and they loved not their lives unto death.

    Rev 12:11
    "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."


    Are you going to make this about anything other than the work Jesus did on the cross? Jesus gets all the credit for this defeat. It's not about Mother Mary, it's not about the 2 witnesses that come in later days, it's not the rapture in the millennial.

    This is all about Jesus and his life that he gave for you and I on the cross of Calvary.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Then the text goes on to say, she delivered the man child and he was caught up unto God, and to his throne. It appears you are having a problem accepting the work Jesus did on the cross.
    I have a problem with Jesus never being referred to as the "man child" but scriptures does denote the children of the woman as such.

    IS 66
    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
    9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the Lord: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
    10 Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:

    OK, then lets go on: lets talk more about this war.
    Woe, woe, not so fast Charlie Brown. You skipped verse 6.

    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    If you claim that both verses 5 and 7 happen at the time of Christ and his crucifixion then verse 6 also needs to occur during this time. Note this is the same time as reference in Rev 13 the 42 months. Thus if verse 6 did not happen during the time of Christ then neither did verses 5 or 7. Thus the chapter does not speak of Christ but yet of a future event. Chew on that a bit.



    This is all about Jesus and his life that he gave for you and I on the cross of Calvary.
    Sorry the above highlighted proves otherwise.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    Woe, woe, not so fast Charlie Brown. You skipped verse 6.

    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days
    The period starts with John the Baptist, at the point Jesus came to John to be baptized, "Spoken of by the prophet Esaias, the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight (Matthew 3:3)". John came was making the people prepared to receive Christ and indeed, Christ came.

    Matthew 11:
    12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
    13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
    14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.


    Verse 12: the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Indeed, this is covered all in the chapter of Rev 12. referring to Satan.

    In conclusion, the woman was fed; a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years). She was fed by the gospel of her salvation, a place prepared for her of God. The ministry of Jesus is from his age 30 to 33-1/2 years; a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years).

    But don't ever forget how the war was won.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    Woe, woe, not so fast Charlie Brown. You skipped verse 6.

    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days
    The period starts with John the Baptist, at the point Jesus came to John to be baptized, "Spoken of by the prophet Esaias, the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight (Matthew 3:3)". John came was making the people prepared to receive Christ and indeed, Christ came.

    Matthew 11:
    12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
    13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
    14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.


    Verse 12: the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. Indeed, this is covered all in the chapter of Rev 12. referring to Satan.

    In conclusion, the woman was fed; a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years). She was fed by the gospel of her salvation, a place prepared for her of God. The ministry of Jesus is from his age 30 to 33-1/2 years; a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years).

    But don't ever forget how the war was won.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    In conclusion, the woman was fed; a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years). She was fed by the gospel of her salvation, a place prepared for her of God. The ministry of Jesus is from his age 30 to 33-1/2 years; a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years).
    So where was the wilderness that she fled?

    When did this happen during Jesus ministry?

    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
    15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
    16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


    So then we skipped 2000+ years to Rev 13?

    Where are they teaching these things, where are you getting your interpretations?

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