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Thread: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

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    Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Revelation 17:1-5
    1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

    The physical city of Babylon was originally built by Nimrod after the flood and was by the Euphrates River. The name Babylon came from the Tower of Babel that was constructed there and means "the portal of the gods", or "gate of the gods". Jesus is the spiritual husband of the church therefore if a church unites with or receives favors of one who is not her husband, she commits spiritual adultery.

    Here we see Babylon is called the “great whore” who committed fornication or spiritual adultery. The “many waters” she sits on are the countless people she has deceived and “made drunk” with her doctrines. The “kings of the earth” represent civil powers or the power of the state. When churches lose the power of the gospel to transform hearts and lives they turn to the power of the state to support their doctrines and thus they commit spiritual fornication.

    We see this repeated in many verses in Revelation...


    Revelation 14:8
    8And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 16:19
    19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    The name Babylon or "the portal of the gods" in a sense portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to Gods plan. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith. Numerous verses in the book of Revelation warn against Babylon, and admonish Gods people to come out of Babylon.

    Revelation 18:1-3 1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
    2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
    3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
    4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
    5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


    The unclean and hateful birds reference the counterfeit spirit of demons that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, John hears "another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." This warns Gods people not to become entangled with this "Mystery Babylon" so they are not "partakers of her sins" or her abominations to avoid the "her plagues".

    The Babylon is not the physical Babylon but spiritual Babylon as we see even Peter used it.

    1 Peter 5:13
    13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

    Peter wrote these words when literal Babylon no longer existed. The woman that rides the beast also has all the identifying features as we see, "the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication". The great prostitute is obviously not a good woman and has issues that go beyond just a few mistakes. So who and what is this spiritual Babylon?

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Revelation 17:1-5
    1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

    The physical city of Babylon was originally built by Nimrod after the flood and was by the Euphrates River. The name Babylon came from the Tower of Babel that was constructed there and means "the portal of the gods", or "gate of the gods". Jesus is the spiritual husband of the church therefore if a church unites with or receives favors of one who is not her husband, she commits spiritual adultery.

    Here we see Babylon is called the “great whore” who committed fornication or spiritual adultery. The “many waters” she sits on are the countless people she has deceived and “made drunk” with her doctrines. The “kings of the earth” represent civil powers or the power of the state. When churches lose the power of the gospel to transform hearts and lives they turn to the power of the state to support their doctrines and thus they commit spiritual fornication.

    We see this repeated in many verses in Revelation...


    Revelation 14:8
    8And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

    Revelation 16:19
    19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    The name Babylon or "the portal of the gods" in a sense portrays a means of access to the gods that is contrary to Gods plan. Access is granted through the system and not by faith in Jesus Christ. It is a system where salvation by works replaces salvation by faith. Numerous verses in the book of Revelation warn against Babylon, and admonish Gods people to come out of Babylon.

    Revelation 18:1-3 1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
    2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
    3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
    4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
    5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


    The unclean and hateful birds reference the counterfeit spirit of demons that would power the system and lead people to believe that they are working with the power of God when it is a deception masquerading as truth. In verse 4, John hears "another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." This warns Gods people not to become entangled with this "Mystery Babylon" so they are not "partakers of her sins" or her abominations to avoid the "her plagues".

    The Babylon is not the physical Babylon but spiritual Babylon as we see even Peter used it.

    1 Peter 5:13
    13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

    Peter wrote these words when literal Babylon no longer existed. The woman that rides the beast also has all the identifying features as we see, "the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication". The great prostitute is obviously not a good woman and has issues that go beyond just a few mistakes. So who and what is this spiritual Babylon?
    We agree in the main. My understanding is thus.

    Men rate a nation or coalition of nations by their military prowess. And it is true that a strong military has always played a roll in one nation subjugating another. But the Bible does not look at military prowess. The Bible addresses "the Prince of this world" - a spirit, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph.6:12). So Colossians 2:15, written in the past tense, declares of our Lord Jesus, "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

    A boss at a firm has power over his employees by threatening less, or no pay. This causes hardship and the employee will be motivated to obey the boss. A General commanding troops can demand anything of his troops on the threat of execution for treason if they disobey. This is a great motivation - one's life. And yet men have refused orders and taken into account loss of their lives. But the strongest motivation to move a man to total loyalty is if you can convince him that you hold power over his ETERNAL FUTURE. A man's RELIGION - his BELIEFS - are the strongest force available to get men to do one's bidding. Thus, the bible recognizes RELIGION and not military prowess as the real power over men. It has produced men like Kamikazes and Muslim suicide bombers, and millions of Roman Catholics buy indulgences - sometimes leaving huge estates for the Roman Church for the assurance of salvation.

    True to this is the RELIGIOUS power of the six world powers we have had. Before Nimrod's Babel could capture all men, God confused their languages and the religious system was stunted. But it's roots were there, and by the time of Egypt this Babylonian Religion was in full bloom. Though the Nations changed and the names changed with the host nations tongue, the RELIGION of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome WAS THE SAME. For the sake of brevity I will not go into the mechanisms of this Religion, but suffice to say that its purest form today is found in the Free Mason Lodges. And it is loyalty and adherence to this Babylonian religion that has given the nations their power. A gun pointed at you is motivation enough, but the pulpit is stronger.

    The last world power - Rome, seeing its military power crack and break, decided in and about 313 AD, under the then Pontifex Maximus - Constantine, to change their armor for priests robes. The Roman Empire, almost overnight, became the "Holy Roman Empire". The small Vatican has almost no military, but from the pulpit it wields a power over men and kings to be jealous for. And 1,200 years later the Holy Roman Empire was so established that the Reformation - over RELIGIOUS doctrine - saw much blood shed. The Roma Church still today has 1.3 billion adherents, second only to Islam with 1.6 billion. It has, more than any religion yet, "fornicated" politically and spiritually with the kings of this earth. It is the most successful persecutor of Christianity and is splashed with the blood of martyrs. It is the single most wealthy entity on earth and no serious politician would dream of angering the Roman Church - especially those who are to be elected by the people.

    The Mystery Babylon of Revelation Chapter 17 is ROME. All physical indications point that way, starting from Daniel 9. But the RELIGION, the spiritual power behind it, is the the ancient one of Nimrod's Babylon. And it's end is fitting. It is NOT our Lord Jesus that ultimately destroys Mystery Babylon. It the the very kings who supported it (Rev.17:16-17). Why? Because ALL religion must be eradicated for the Beast to get universal worship (Rev.13:16-17). Mystery Babylon is killed by the very kings that fed it. Fitting!

    But Mystery Babylon has another side - Her Commercial Power. The fornication with the kings of the earth lead ultimately to the banks, "For the love of money is the root of all evil, ... ." (1st Tim.6:10). Men love money, for it rewards their evil and gives them power to do evil. And so we find COMMERCIAL "Babylon THE GREAT" in Revelation Chapter 18. The details are there for the reading, but this time it IS GOD Who destroys the monetary system of this world (Rev.18:8). It is THIS BABYLON that Christians are involved in for the call is, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev.18:4). Most Christian will not get involved in the worship of sun, moon, stars, ancestors and idols. It is clear to most Christians that this is false and vain worship. But do Christians run after wealth? Do the Christians who have no money not worry about getting money? And do the Christians who have money not worry about keeping it? Will countless Christians not be so involved in the Trading System of this world that they are found in Babylon the GREAT when the Lord's judgement falls on it - AND must partake of her destruction?

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    I answered this a little while back. In my view it's Rome. You make a lot of good points, though. It does represent the power of man, operating by inspiration of demons.

    In my opinion, God gave Rome a name of "mystery," to not put John on the spot, who at that time was held prisoner by Rome. The use of "Babylon" may originate from the 1st Beast of Dan 7, the last Beast of this group of four being the Roman Beast.

    This is the city that ruled over that area of the world, since it was an empire. And it was the 6th kingdom in line after Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece, identified as the "king that is" in Rev 17.10.

    Rome also had "7 hills," as indicated in Rev 17.9. Rome was also the kingdom that put to death the apostles and prophets of the 1st century, as well as Christ himself.

    I don't think there's any mystery that this "Babylon" was Rome. She was a harlot because she enticed the Church and Israel to follow the god of this world, who is Satan. Emperor worship was idolatry, and to follow Roman paganism was to commit adultery in the eyes of God.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    What is Babylon

    Babylon is a literal city.

    The city is referred to as a woman who has committed adultery. What other woman/city has dome such? Jerusalem.

    A city with a beast (king) in scarlet color. This would be his scarlet color attire. What other king wears scarlet color upon his return? Rev 19. Christ has a blood (scarlet) vesture.

    A city dressed in purple and scarlet. Did you know Jerusalem of old was arrayed in these colors linens the people? She also is decked in gold, precious stones, and pearls. Do you know what city will also be dressed this way? New Jerusalem.

    A city located in a wilderness. Wilderness? The WHOLE world is a wilderness whereby this city rises up, this city will not rise up until after this world becomes a wilderness.

    A city in which the WHOLE world is made rich by her abundance of goods. No other cities, only this city. This is the major city on earth like New Jerusalem will be providing for all as well.

    A city responsible for the blood of prophets, saints and martyrs. What city before was such responsible, Jerusalem.

    A city whom God calls out HIS people. His people is Israel.

    A city which will be rewarded double for her iniquity and calls herself a window. Jerusalem has been called a widow.

    A city which no longer voices or lights of a candle. Representative of Jerusalem.


    Who is Babylon


    Babylon represents Jerusalem.

    However not the Jerusalem of old or current but future. This Jerusalem will have the appearance as of NEW Jerusalem upon the earth, streets of God, gates of pearls ect.... It will also have a king whom will have the appearance of Christ, power over life of mankind, a mark, miracles ect..., This city will come upon the earth after wars, pestilence, plagues, death likened unto the seals, trumpets, vials and the coming of real kingdom of God.

    Who is this woman whom John admires. Is she some different woman who is some strange unknown woman that just some happens to appear. Or has John seen her before? Folks, the reason why this woman looks like a double of the woman in heaven is she is this woman. You see this woman (city) comes down to earth from heaven early in Rev 12 to a wilderness. She flees Satan in heaven to come to earth. Actually this was Satan's plan as he needed her on earth for him to commit fornication and deceive the world. He can't do it without her.

    Regardless if you believe she in the same woman in Rev 12 or a mere replication, She is representative of Jerusalem no doubt. Was a strong delusion it will be.

  5. #5

    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    We agree in the main. My understanding is thus.

    Men rate a nation or coalition of nations by their military prowess. And it is true that a strong military has always played a roll in one nation subjugating another. But the Bible does not look at military prowess. The Bible addresses "the Prince of this world" - a spirit, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Eph.6:12). So Colossians 2:15, written in the past tense, declares of our Lord Jesus, "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

    A boss at a firm has power over his employees by threatening less, or no pay. This causes hardship and the employee will be motivated to obey the boss. A General commanding troops can demand anything of his troops on the threat of execution for treason if they disobey. This is a great motivation - one's life. And yet men have refused orders and taken into account loss of their lives. But the strongest motivation to move a man to total loyalty is if you can convince him that you hold power over his ETERNAL FUTURE. A man's RELIGION - his BELIEFS - are the strongest force available to get men to do one's bidding. Thus, the bible recognizes RELIGION and not military prowess as the real power over men. It has produced men like Kamikazes and Muslim suicide bombers, and millions of Roman Catholics buy indulgences - sometimes leaving huge estates for the Roman Church for the assurance of salvation.

    True to this is the RELIGIOUS power of the six world powers we have had. Before Nimrod's Babel could capture all men, God confused their languages and the religious system was stunted. But it's roots were there, and by the time of Egypt this Babylonian Religion was in full bloom. Though the Nations changed and the names changed with the host nations tongue, the RELIGION of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome WAS THE SAME. For the sake of brevity I will not go into the mechanisms of this Religion, but suffice to say that its purest form today is found in the Free Mason Lodges. And it is loyalty and adherence to this Babylonian religion that has given the nations their power. A gun pointed at you is motivation enough, but the pulpit is stronger.

    The last world power - Rome, seeing its military power crack and break, decided in and about 313 AD, under the then Pontifex Maximus - Constantine, to change their armor for priests robes. The Roman Empire, almost overnight, became the "Holy Roman Empire". The small Vatican has almost no military, but from the pulpit it wields a power over men and kings to be jealous for. And 1,200 years later the Holy Roman Empire was so established that the Reformation - over RELIGIOUS doctrine - saw much blood shed. The Roma Church still today has 1.3 billion adherents, second only to Islam with 1.6 billion. It has, more than any religion yet, "fornicated" politically and spiritually with the kings of this earth. It is the most successful persecutor of Christianity and is splashed with the blood of martyrs. It is the single most wealthy entity on earth and no serious politician would dream of angering the Roman Church - especially those who are to be elected by the people.

    The Mystery Babylon of Revelation Chapter 17 is ROME. All physical indications point that way, starting from Daniel 9. But the RELIGION, the spiritual power behind it, is the the ancient one of Nimrod's Babylon. And it's end is fitting. It is NOT our Lord Jesus that ultimately destroys Mystery Babylon. It the the very kings who supported it (Rev.17:16-17). Why? Because ALL religion must be eradicated for the Beast to get universal worship (Rev.13:16-17). Mystery Babylon is killed by the very kings that fed it. Fitting!

    But Mystery Babylon has another side - Her Commercial Power. The fornication with the kings of the earth lead ultimately to the banks, "For the love of money is the root of all evil, ... ." (1st Tim.6:10). Men love money, for it rewards their evil and gives them power to do evil. And so we find COMMERCIAL "Babylon THE GREAT" in Revelation Chapter 18. The details are there for the reading, but this time it IS GOD Who destroys the monetary system of this world (Rev.18:8). It is THIS BABYLON that Christians are involved in for the call is, "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Rev.18:4). Most Christian will not get involved in the worship of sun, moon, stars, ancestors and idols. It is clear to most Christians that this is false and vain worship. But do Christians run after wealth? Do the Christians who have no money not worry about getting money? And do the Christians who have money not worry about keeping it? Will countless Christians not be so involved in the Trading System of this world that they are found in Babylon the GREAT when the Lord's judgement falls on it - AND must partake of her destruction?
    You are hitting the proverbial nail with some mighty blows, and you are right it is all about worship, true versus the substitute false worship. In the Bible the symbol of a woman represents the church.

    Jeremiah 6:2
    2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.

    In Isaiah we see it extends the symbol of a woman to that of a bride.

    Isaiah 62:5
    5 As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

    Obviously the pure bride represents the pure church, and in the New Testament the same symbolism is used.

    2 Corinthians 11:2
    2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

    Babylon is described in Revelation 'mother of harlots' a unchaste woman which basically is a apostate religious systems or church which is a abomination to God. So how did it get picked up and what does it do to deceive and bring in such a religious and political power, that even has influence over buying and selling, and affects the wealth of people.

    Looking at history, the Babylonian pagan worship of the sun, moon, stars, ancestors and the mystery religions with all its idols came from the time of the tower of Babel all the way to modern time by a surprising path. The Babylon Kings served as both king and priest of the pagan mystery religions, so they had their hand on both the political as well as religious. As priests, they bore the title "Pontifex Maximus" or "Supreme Pontiff," meaning "supreme pathfinder" or "bridge maker," representing "the path or connection between this life and the next". They ruled upon the throne as kings but also as the "hidden god" who ruled as head of the nation but also as divine. When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, the Persian ruler who took over Babylon, Cyrus, forced the Babylonian priests to flee with their mystery religions from the new empire. When they were driven out of Medo-Persia, they established themselves at Pergamum, taking with them their titles and false worship. They transferred their mystery religions or what amounted to the throne of Satan with its system of worship away from Babylon, to Pergamum or Pergamos. They built their temples and sacred places there and continued their mystery religions until the Roman Empire took over and then it spread into the Roman Empire.

    Soon after Rome took over, the city had three temples dedicated to the worship of the Roman emperor, and John refers to it when he writes to the church in the city.

    Revelation 2:12-14
    12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
    13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
    14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.


    The College of Pontiffs or Collegium Pontificum in Rome, came from the mystery religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. Julius Caesar had himself elected Supreme Pontiff and became emperor of Rome and vested the office of Roman emperor with the priestly powers and functions of the mystery religion. So we see how Rome picked up the title which became held by the Emperor himself and so you can see how emperor worship again showed itself.

    So how did it affect Christians if they did not allow this Babylonian pagan worship by any of their believers. Obviously if God's people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations. How could Christians allow idols, and rites and false worship of man with all its pagan traditions to come into the church...

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Revelation 17:1-5 1 So who and what is this spiritual Babylon?
    She is Jerusalem.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post

    I don't think there's any mystery that this "Babylon" was Rome. She was a harlot because she enticed the Church and Israel to follow the god of this world, who is Satan. Emperor worship was idolatry, and to follow Roman paganism was to commit adultery in the eyes of God.
    And I see that as a type or shadow of what's to come...something far bigger and far worse than 1st century Rome was.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    And I see that as a type or shadow of what's to come...something far bigger and far worse than 1st century Rome was.
    AbsoScoopingLutely!
    “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever,
    that we may observe all the words of this law."
    Deuteronomy 29:29

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    And I see that as a type or shadow of what's to come...something far bigger and far worse than 1st century Rome was.
    I would agree with you, brother, that this will lead to something in the future, but I'm not sure how much worse it can get than what Jesus and the apostles went through? Getting nailed to crosses is pretty bad!

    I do believe the Roman Empire was just the beginning of a long imperial tradition that will end with the Antichrist and the False Prophet. What we will get at the end is the same as what Jesus and the apostles got at the beginning--persecution and resistance to God's Kingdom. But this time, the Kingdom will come!

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I would agree with you, brother, that this will lead to something in the future, but I'm not sure how much worse it can get than what Jesus and the apostles went through? Getting nailed to crosses is pretty bad!
    I meant worse as in overall not down to each persons experience. I'm not sure anything can compare to what Christ went through but the souls of the dead in heaven are told their fellowservants will be killed as they were:

    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Either this means in similar ways of being killed, or just also being killed in general...either way it's being murdered.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Here we see a group specifically killed in a certain way. I believe this is beheadings just as it says and not code for other ways of being killed.


    All in all I see the final fulfillment of what is found in the OD is severe persecution, vaster, bigger, more global and possibly larger numbers of Christians being killed than anytime before.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I meant worse as in overall not down to each persons experience. I'm not sure anything can compare to what Christ went through but the souls of the dead in heaven are told their fellowservants will be killed as they were:

    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Either this means in similar ways of being killed, or just also being killed in general...either way it's being murdered.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Here we see a group specifically killed in a certain way. I believe this is beheadings just as it says and not code for other ways of being killed.


    All in all I see the final fulfillment of what is found in the OD is severe persecution, vaster, bigger, more global and possibly larger numbers of Christians being killed than anytime before.
    Yep--larger persecution, more numbers, more casualties--same suffering. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I meant worse as in overall not down to each persons experience. I'm not sure anything can compare to what Christ went through but the souls of the dead in heaven are told their fellowservants will be killed as they were:

    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Either this means in similar ways of being killed, or just also being killed in general...either way it's being murdered.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Here we see a group specifically killed in a certain way. I believe this is beheadings just as it says and not code for other ways of being killed.


    All in all I see the final fulfillment of what is found in the OD is severe persecution, vaster, bigger, more global and possibly larger numbers of Christians being killed than anytime before.
    Yep--larger persecution, more numbers, more casualties--same suffering. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I meant worse as in overall not down to each persons experience. I'm not sure anything can compare to what Christ went through but the souls of the dead in heaven are told their fellowservants will be killed as they were:

    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Either this means in similar ways of being killed, or just also being killed in general...either way it's being murdered.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Here we see a group specifically killed in a certain way. I believe this is beheadings just as it says and not code for other ways of being killed.


    All in all I see the final fulfillment of what is found in the OD is severe persecution, vaster, bigger, more global and possibly larger numbers of Christians being killed than anytime before.
    Yep--larger persecution, more numbers, more casualties--same suffering. Thanks.

  12. #12
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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    You are hitting the proverbial nail with some mighty blows, and you are right it is all about worship, true versus the substitute false worship. In the Bible the symbol of a woman represents the church.

    Jeremiah 6:2
    2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.

    In Isaiah we see it extends the symbol of a woman to that of a bride.

    Isaiah 62:5
    5 As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

    Obviously the pure bride represents the pure church, and in the New Testament the same symbolism is used.

    2 Corinthians 11:2
    2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

    Babylon is described in Revelation 'mother of harlots' a unchaste woman which basically is a apostate religious systems or church which is a abomination to God. So how did it get picked up and what does it do to deceive and bring in such a religious and political power, that even has influence over buying and selling, and affects the wealth of people.

    Looking at history, the Babylonian pagan worship of the sun, moon, stars, ancestors and the mystery religions with all its idols came from the time of the tower of Babel all the way to modern time by a surprising path. The Babylon Kings served as both king and priest of the pagan mystery religions, so they had their hand on both the political as well as religious. As priests, they bore the title "Pontifex Maximus" or "Supreme Pontiff," meaning "supreme pathfinder" or "bridge maker," representing "the path or connection between this life and the next". They ruled upon the throne as kings but also as the "hidden god" who ruled as head of the nation but also as divine. When Medo-Persia conquered Babylon, the Persian ruler who took over Babylon, Cyrus, forced the Babylonian priests to flee with their mystery religions from the new empire. When they were driven out of Medo-Persia, they established themselves at Pergamum, taking with them their titles and false worship. They transferred their mystery religions or what amounted to the throne of Satan with its system of worship away from Babylon, to Pergamum or Pergamos. They built their temples and sacred places there and continued their mystery religions until the Roman Empire took over and then it spread into the Roman Empire.

    Soon after Rome took over, the city had three temples dedicated to the worship of the Roman emperor, and John refers to it when he writes to the church in the city.

    Revelation 2:12-14
    12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
    13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
    14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.


    The College of Pontiffs or Collegium Pontificum in Rome, came from the mystery religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. Julius Caesar had himself elected Supreme Pontiff and became emperor of Rome and vested the office of Roman emperor with the priestly powers and functions of the mystery religion. So we see how Rome picked up the title which became held by the Emperor himself and so you can see how emperor worship again showed itself.

    So how did it affect Christians if they did not allow this Babylonian pagan worship by any of their believers. Obviously if God's people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations. How could Christians allow idols, and rites and false worship of man with all its pagan traditions to come into the church...
    Exactly ... .

  13. #13
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    Cool Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    " Originally Posted by hobie: The College of Pontiffs or Collegium Pontificum in Rome, came from the mystery religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. Julius Caesar had himself elected Supreme Pontiff and became emperor of Rome and vested the office of Roman emperor with the priestly powers and functions of the mystery religion. So we see how Rome picked up the title which became held by the Emperor himself and so you can see how emperor worship again showed itself.

    So how did it affect Christians if they did not allow this Babylonian pagan worship by any of their believers. Obviously if God's people are the chaste woman faithful to her husband, then Babylon is the opposite system of worship which is unfaithful to God, and has a mystery religion and teaches and practices abominations. How could Christians allow idols, and rites and false worship of man with all its pagan traditions to come into the church...
    Rev. 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

    So, what does all this have to say for all those Protestant Churches that spun off Madam RCC? Daughters?
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Rev. 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

    So, what does all this have to say for all those Protestant Churches that spun off Madam RCC? Daughters?
    If what is being said in these posts is true, I think you know what it means.
    Every religious group that has come from the RC has something wrong with it.
    From corruption comes corruption.
    Put away what you have been told and find the truth for yourself.
    Take away the false teachings and search for the truth in the bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Rev. 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

    So, what does all this have to say for all those Protestant Churches that spun off Madam RCC? Daughters?
    If what is being said in these posts is true, I think you know what it means.
    Every religious group that has come from the RC has something wrong with it.
    From corruption comes corruption.
    Put away what you have been told and find the truth for yourself.
    Take away the false teachings and search for the truth in the bible.

  15. #15

    Re: Who and what is the Babylon of Revelation?

    All:

    I am new here, but I think that if we take out trying to identify the city exactly and concentrate on what each of these world empires had in common, it might be more illuminating. The empires focus on false gods and false religion and thwarting men to worship that which is not from the one true God. The whole point of each of these empires was to turn towards the adversary that which should have been turned to our Lord.

    I don't see Babylon being Jerusalem because Jerusalem could not have whored with all the nations and in today's climate, who would mourn over a destroyed Jerusalem? I think that Babylon is either (as suggested by Dave Hunt) the Catholic church and Vatican City or it is a newly risen empire constructed by the anti-Christ. Only a city with strong international economic ties can qualify and Jerusalem, while a city with huge political consequences, simply has nothing of significance when it comes to economic ties. The Catholic church, however, has been a major economic and political player for a very long time and is tied in like an octopus' tentacles all throughout the world.

    That's just my thoughts on it anyway.

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