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Thread: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

  1. #31
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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker_truth View Post
    Yes, it is a kingdom. Ten Arab nations. However, the number of the beast is the number of a man. REV.13:18
    I would rather say 10 Middle Eastern nations, than 10 Arab nations. Rev 13 says the beast resembles the leopard, the leopard being Alexander's Empire. If you compare that territory to today;s countries, the countries that overlap with the "leopard" are approximately as follows:
    Israel, Egypt, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan.

    I'm not saying those are the 10, I am saying those most likely will be the 10.

  2. #32
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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938
    You aren't making sense here. First you say a beast is a world empire, then mention Rev and the beast with 7 heads, then all of the sudden this world empire suddenly has 7 consecutive empires as well? Also, the heads are not consecutive. All 7 are part of the Rev 13:1 beast empire. So, there are ten smaller empires/kingdoms within this larger (global) empire. I know some translations have the 7 mountains as also 7 consecutive past kings/kingdoms but that is a false and it causes the confusion you are presenting here. Go with the KJV of it, the 7 heads are different than the 7 consecutive kings.
    • Daniel sees 4 consecutive beast empires - Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by a later one. (5 in all)
    • John sees 7 consecutive 'heads' of Satan - Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by a later one. (7 in all)


    John starts at an earlier point than Daniel and uses slightly different symbology, but the visions are basically about beast empires that arise and persecute the people of God.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  3. #33
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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    [*]John sees 7 consecutive 'heads' of Satan
    He was not shown those. He was only told of them and they are not called heads nor are they heads/mountains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    [*]John sees 7 consecutive 'heads' of Satan
    He was not shown those. He was only told of them and they are not called heads nor are they heads/mountains.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #34
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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    • Daniel sees 4 consecutive beast empires - Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by a later one. (5 in all)
    • John sees 7 consecutive 'heads' of Satan - Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by a later one. (7 in all)

    The four beasts in Dan 7 have the 7 heads. The four beasts can't also be some of the 7 heads...…….You have just added Egypt and Assyria to make seven. The four beasts and seven heads are each different.

    Lion - Head 1
    Bear - Head 2
    Leopard - Head 3,4,5,6 (has four heads)
    Beast - Head 7 (10 horns)
    Little horn - Head 8

  5. #35
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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    This doesn't happen anywhere in Revelation though.
    You're right. Nothing in Revelation about 3 kings falling. Don't know how to deal with that. It becomes an argument from silence. All we have is what Daniel says in ch. 7. But then we also have to deal with the fact that in Revelation we have both 10 horns and 7 heads. The loss of 3 heads from the 10 horns may imply that 3 heads were defeated?

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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You're right. Nothing in Revelation about 3 kings falling. ?
    Rev 13 is the fourth beast on Dan 7 rising to power. The three kings falling we're the lion bear leopard

  7. #37
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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Rev 13 is the fourth beast on Dan 7 rising to power. The three kings falling we're the lion bear leopard
    Yes, as I said that's one possibility. On the other hand these were 3 horns, and not 3 beasts, that were defeated by the Little Horn. So we cannot positively ID the 3 fallen "horns," as I see it. I'm not sure how we can ID all of the 10 horns?

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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    [LIST]

    [*]John sees 7 consecutive 'heads' of Satan - Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by a later one. (7 in all)
    No, John saw a beast with 7 intact heads at the same time not consecutive and the heads aren't kingdoms in Rev. The kingdoms are represented by Horns who are kings that have their kingdoms one hour with the beast.

    The closest Rev comes to what you are saying is John speaking about the 8 consecutive kings, 5 had already fallen, one was in the process and two were left to come. Those aren't the 7 heads of the Rev 13:1 beast despite some translations saying they are. They have caused people to have confusion of these things.

    Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    "having seven heads" disproves the idea of being consecutive and there are only 7 heads not 8 heads as is the case with the consecutive kings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    [LIST]

    [*]John sees 7 consecutive 'heads' of Satan - Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, followed by a later one. (7 in all)
    No, John saw a beast with 7 intact heads at the same time not consecutive and the heads aren't kingdoms in Rev. The kingdoms are represented by Horns who are kings that have their kingdoms one hour with the beast.

    The closest Rev comes to what you are saying is John speaking about the 8 consecutive kings, 5 had already fallen, one was in the process and two were left to come. Those aren't the 7 heads of the Rev 13:1 beast despite some translations saying they are. They have caused people to have confusion of these things.

    Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    "having seven heads" disproves the idea of being consecutive and there are only 7 heads not 8 heads as is the case with the consecutive kings.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  9. #39
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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You're right. Nothing in Revelation about 3 kings falling. Don't know how to deal with that. It becomes an argument from silence. All we have is what Daniel says in ch. 7. But then we also have to deal with the fact that in Revelation we have both 10 horns and 7 heads. The loss of 3 heads from the 10 horns may imply that 3 heads were defeated?
    Rev does not show 3 heads being defeated, neither does Daniel for that matter. Heads are not horns. They shouldn't be mixed up like that.

    The ten horns are ten kings who each have a kingdom. Since the horns are on the heads, the heads are the territories where those ten kingdoms are located. Rev calls the heads "mountains". Kingdoms were founded on mountains because it gives defensive advantages. Modern people don't think along these lines so we have to have the mindsets and understanding of people who lived when actual kingdoms were built by kings and why they were built.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: FOUR BEASTS AND THE MARK OF THE BEAST

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, as I said that's one possibility. On the other hand these were 3 horns, and not 3 beasts, that were defeated by the Little Horn. So we cannot positively ID the 3 fallen "horns," as I see it. I'm not sure how we can ID all of the 10 horns?
    We can't because the ten kings receive kingdoms for one hour with the beast so IMO these are new kingdoms formed out of the ones that existed before the beast comes to power. History has done this, changing the size of various nations usually from the result of a war etc.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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