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Thread: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Why?

  1. #46
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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The text does not support that. It rises and has only 42 months.



    This is not a logical conclusion. The beast rises and is given a mouth. The very fact that is rises up proves that is it's beginning.



    I think that's clear enough to be all the same day. Even the fact that the ten kingdoms are kings with the beast for one hour means there is a certain timeframe that the beast has ten horns and we know that is the 42 months. How can ten kings have kingdoms for thousand of years? The same ten kings rule for the entire time the beast exists so that goes against your theory as well. Not to mention the matching amount of time given to the two witnesses of 1260 days.
    In Daniel 7 the 4th beast comes first, then the ten horns arise. And this beast has the same description as the Rev beast being a final ten horned empire. So in that way they are the same beast.

    But there is a twist that makes me somewhat agree with you, because in my view the final 42 month human manifestation of the beast is in a new location ( he comes to power in Israel), and Israel "was and is not and is to come" to the shock of unbelievers in the Middle East:
    The inhabitants of the "ge" whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

  2. #47

    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Yes, I know those chapters well. The same final 3.5 years is mentioned there, in what way is it relevant to our discussion.
    you don't see relevance?

    And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

    Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

    Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
    **Daniel‬ *7:3, 17, 19, 23-25‬ *KJV‬‬


    “And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.

    And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

    And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.”
    **Daniel‬ *11:2-4, 6‬ *KJV‬‬


    it's further insight into the Kings were discussing, do you see that this King came beforehand, and will return in the end of years?

    sorry tho, I shouldn't jump in to other folks conversations, I appologize I'll let you guys discuss it all, God bless

  3. #48

    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Well said, I agree with everything except I think the ten come first, then the 3.

    It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it

    The ten horns come out of the fourth kingdom, then the 11th comes up and the three ruling kings bow to him, he subdues them, and uses thier authority over the ten.

    look down a bit further in the chapter

    “Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

    And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.”
    **Daniel‬ *7:23-24‬ *KJV‬‬


    the fourth beast is the kingdom which the ten kingd come from, the last one is another king different from all the others, coming from the kingdom different from the others.

  4. #49

    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
    Dan_7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    Dan_7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

    Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

    Yet when we look at Revelation we do not find any of the kings/horns being "plucked up":

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    All ten horns remain as kings with kingdoms the entire "hour" of the GT. The only time any of them fall or are subdued is when the entire beast with all ten horns and 7 heads is defeated by Christ at Armageddon.

    Also, all ten kings eventually get angry at Babylon and attack her further showing all ten are intact and not "plucked up" etc. by the antichrist.

    Anyone want to explain this?

    you know how your talking there about the ten kings attacking Babylon " the great whore who poured out her fornications ?


    I'm just gonna leave some scriptures in prophecy, if you look elsewhere in Ezekiel and Jeremiah you will find much more to this

    Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations....

    ...Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I thoroughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.

    I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

    Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God. <<<<her appearance in glory in revelation 12

    ...But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.


    Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

    Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

    And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood. And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord God

    Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms. Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.

    Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way. Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.

    Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord God, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman;

    But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom. And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.

    Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord: Thus saith the Lord God; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;

    Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.

    And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare. They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.”
    **Ezekiel‬ *16:1-2, 6-18, 20-23, 25-30, 32-41‬ *KJV‬‬


    Israel,and Judah both throughout prophecy are called whores , it's said they have taken thier cup of fornications and defiled all those round about, it is always promised they will drink the cup of Gods wrath, and will be left desolate but for the remnant. They are called sod don't and Gomorrah by God, harlot, whore, adulterer, the spirit of Babylon.....just a thought to consider

  5. #50
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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Well said, I agree with everything except I think the ten come first, then the 3.

    It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns. “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it
    I don't disagree. The 10 horns come 1st, and then the defeat of 3 of them.

  6. #51

    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post

    In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns.

    In Revelation this does not happen.

    Anyone want to explain this?
    I have an explanation, but i'm not sure that i want to say it.

    I don't think you'll like my explanation. I doubt that we'll solve this in a forum note

    You are right though, none of the horns on Revelation 13's composite beast will be plucked up by their roots. Some of the historicists were correct, the three who were plucked up by the roots happened already a long time ago in the Foxe Book days of Europe. Google the Vandals and read their Wiki page.

    The people who think these are two different beasts come close. But it's the same beast system, with two different visitations. Like the second beast that rises from the earth has TWO horns like the Lamb, two visitations. Two different prophetic time periods of authority. Like Terminator, and Terminator II.

    Some people think that Rome will make a resurgence. That there will be a revived Roman Empire. But there won't be. Daniel 7's monster beast at it's core was never really Rome. It was, but it wasn't. Look deeper at what was happening. It was England, it was Germany and it was France. It was how Martin Luther could be on the run for his life in his own home country. And it was how the Church in Rome had been given such great iron teeth to dictate the authority to say who would be burnt at the stake. Even the king of England was afraid and had to ask the Pope if he could divorce his wife. It was this deadly combination of Church and State.

    The Daniel 7 beast is the same one as the Revelation 12 beast with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. In Revelation 13, the "crowns" have shifted to the ten horns. The authority has shifted to the world's governments in this end time church/state entity. But it really is the many nations and tongues and peoples of the world that the composite beast has risen from. They voted it into power this time. It rises from the sea of many nations.

    The word worship comes from the Greek proskuneo, it can also mean to submit to, or to obey. So by following the composite beast, people are worshiping the dragon by proxy, who gave it his power and his throne and his great authority. I think it's happening now, right before our eyes. We are growing with the tares, and right at the latter end of their world wide reign. The transgressors have become just about completely wicked now. Their Stern Faced King should be coming around the mountain any minute now. It's baked in the cake.

    Spooky, or what?

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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman View Post
    I have an explanation, but i'm not sure that i want to say it.

    I don't think you'll like my explanation. I doubt that we'll solve this in a forum note

    You are right though, none of the horns on Revelation 13's composite beast will be plucked up by their roots. Some of the historicists were correct, the three who were plucked up by the roots happened already a long time ago in the Foxe Book days of Europe. Google the Vandals and read their Wiki page.
    The 3 horns are removed, in my view, in the last days, after Antichrist rises. Antichrist had not yet risen in the time of the Vandals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman
    The people who think these are two different beasts come close. But it's the same beast system, with two different visitations. Like the second beast that rises from the earth has TWO horns like the Lamb, two visitations. Two different prophetic time periods of authority. Like Terminator, and Terminator II.
    The Antichrist, called "the beast," and the False Prophet, are viewed in the book of Revelation as simultaneous--not in different time periods. Even if the 2 beasts represent kingdoms, or empires, they are given individual faces, representing their leaders, specifically the Antichrist and the False Prophet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman
    Some people think that Rome will make a resurgence. That there will be a revived Roman Empire. But there won't be. Daniel 7's monster beast at it's core was never really Rome. It was, but it wasn't.
    Now this is confusing! It was, but it wasn't? In Dan 7 the 4th Beast is generally held to be the Roman Empire, which endures until the coming of the Kingdom of God. There has been no other kingdom that followed after Babylon that could fit this description, in my view.

    Rome fell in 476 AD, but as others have pointed out, Rome was simply taken over, and the E. Empire never even fell at that point. The Roman Imperial Tradition continued through the Holy Roman Empire, and so I believe a "resurgence" of the old pagan Roman Empire is certainly possible--especially since Christianity has been on the decline in Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman
    Look deeper at what was happening. It was England, it was Germany and it was France. It was how Martin Luther could be on the run for his life in his own home country. And it was how the Church in Rome had been given such great iron teeth to dictate the authority to say who would be burnt at the stake. Even the king of England was afraid and had to ask the Pope if he could divorce his wife. It was this deadly combination of Church and State.
    To think the union of Church and State was bad is itself antichristian! God joined His Kingdom with the Israeli State in OT times! This is what God wanted--a State completely absorbed in the things of God, and without compromise towards false gods. Why should Christian civilization be any different?

    We do know there have been problems associated with Christian States when the people and the leadership come to be controlled by less than fully Christian leaders. Why not reform these situations, rather than toss out the whole concept of a Christian State. What would you prefer--a Moslem State? Quite frankly, the idea of a democratic, religiously-neutral State is a dream, and not reality, nor is it even godly. Religious pluralism is the opposite of what the 10 Commandments demanded. And a democratic majority often rules against the truth, and is easily misled by demagogues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman
    The Daniel 7 beast is the same one as the Revelation 12 beast with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. In Revelation 13, the "crowns" have shifted to the ten horns. The authority has shifted to the world's governments in this end time church/state entity. But it really is the many nations and tongues and peoples of the world that the composite beast has risen from. They voted it into power this time. It rises from the sea of many nations.
    It is interesting how Satan in Rev 12 has the crowns on the 7 heads, while Antichrist has the crowns on the 10 horns. I'm not sure why, unless it's because Satan focuses on the leadership, while Antichrist focuses on the confederation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman
    The word worship comes from the Greek proskuneo, it can also mean to submit to, or to obey. So by following the composite beast, people are worshiping the dragon by proxy, who gave it his power and his throne and his great authority. I think it's happening now, right before our eyes. We are growing with the tares, and right at the latter end of their world wide reign. The transgressors have become just about completely wicked now. Their Stern Faced King should be coming around the mountain any minute now. It's baked in the cake.

    Spooky, or what?
    I agree that Antichrist is soon to rise. I don't know how much else we can agree on?

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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    The Antichrist, called "the beast," and the False Prophet, are viewed in the book of Revelation as simultaneous--not in different time periods. Even if the 2 beasts represent kingdoms, or empires, they are given individual faces, representing their leaders, specifically the Antichrist and the False Prophet.
    The first beast is the fourth kingdom of Dan 7. The second beast is the little horn Dan 7. Rev 17 is this little horn in power.


    Now this is confusing! It was, but it wasn't? In Dan 7 the 4th Beast is generally held to be the Roman Empire, which endures until the coming of the Kingdom of God. There has been no other kingdom that followed after Babylon that could fit this description, in my view.
    How about a future kingdom?

    Understand "from the sea" is not a "sea" of many nations. It is literally from the earth under the sea. The pit.

    3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

    It is interesting how Satan in Rev 12 has the crowns on the 7 heads, while Antichrist has the crowns on the 10 horns. I'm not sure why, unless it's because Satan focuses on the leadership, while Antichrist focuses on the confederation?
    This is due to the fourth beast Dan 7 has the 10 horns which now he is in power.

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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman
    I have an explanation, but i'm not sure that i want to say it.

    I don't think you'll like my explanation. I doubt that we'll solve this in a forum note

    You are right though, none of the horns on Revelation 13's composite beast will be plucked up by their roots. Some of the historicists were correct, the three who were plucked up by the roots happened already a long time ago ...
    The general historicist approach seem good, but I have a few adjustments to their list of 10 kings. For several hundred years during the dark ages the Roman Empire fractionated into 10 geopolitical regions. Three of them were swallowed up shortly afterwards. Here are some maps of the situation up to AD 700 AD. (sorry, I cant upload image into the post)

    Scroll down to maps of Rome
    "Your name and renown
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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman View Post

    The Daniel 7 beast is the same one as the Revelation 12 beast with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.
    The problem with that is Daniel's 4th beast is the last beast. There isn't a fifth beast. It's destroyed by fire after a day of judgment which matches Rev 19 where the beast is also destroyed by fire at the same timeframe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Watchman View Post

    The Daniel 7 beast is the same one as the Revelation 12 beast with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.
    The problem with that is Daniel's 4th beast is the last beast. There isn't a fifth beast. It's destroyed by fire after a day of judgment which matches Rev 19 where the beast is also destroyed by fire at the same timeframe.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Trying again to get the map up.





    The vision of Daniel clearly says “out of this (4th) kingdom ten kings shall arise” (Dan 7:24) The early church believed it was speaking of Rome, and that it meant the empire would break into ten. And that’s what happened. It did break into ten – no more, no less.
    "Your name and renown
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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    In Daniel 7 the 4th beast comes first, then the ten horns arise. And this beast has the same description as the Rev beast being a final ten horned empire. So in that way they are the same beast.

    But there is a twist that makes me somewhat agree with you, because in my view the final 42 month human manifestation of the beast is in a new location ( he comes to power in Israel), and Israel "was and is not and is to come" to the shock of unbelievers in the Middle East:
    The inhabitants of the "ge" whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.
    I'm not sure that Israel is the one that "was and is not and is to come". This phrase is associated with beast from the bottomless pit aka Abaddon or Apollyon who will kill the 2Ws according to Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them..

    Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


    Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm not sure that Israel is the one that "was and is not and is to come". This phrase is associated with beast from the bottomless pit aka Abaddon or Apollyon who will kill the 2Ws according to Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them..

    Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


    Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
    I agree that beasts do have an association with demon kings, but they also have an association with kingdoms. When a kingdom falls, so does it's demon prince. Even the demons in the pigs were begging not to be sent to the abyss, I'm sure it has more than one inhabitant, not only Apollyon who is in that pit.

    In 70 AD Israel fell due to its disobedience, that demon prince most involved with leading Israel into disobedience would have fallen too. It is that demon pirnce that would have arisen in the end-times. Knowing that the final Israel will also be in sin, it is only logical that it would be under the influence of a demon prince, as in fact all countries are.

    And of all the countries in the world, which country's re-establishment would amaze only non-believers as per Rev 17:8
    The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

    Explain in your view, how the inhabitants of the earth will be amazed at the re-arising of Apollyon? What will unsaved Mrs smith see, that you as a believer won't be amazed about, but she will? How will she interpret an ancient Apollyon re-arisen, how did an ancient Apollyon even manifest?

    These are all questions my view clearly answers. As background, a demon prince is expressed in a kingdom (4 kings, 4 princes in Daniel 7). A beast that disappears to re-arise
    is a kingdom that disappears to re-arise. And this is why only the unsaved are amazed according to v8 because the saved were expecting a certain kingdom to re-arise. This kingdom is expected by the saved to re-arise.

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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    The vision of Daniel clearly says “out of this (4th) kingdom ten kings shall arise” (Dan 7:24) The early church believed it was speaking of Rome, and that it meant the empire would break into ten. And that’s what happened. It did break into ten – no more, no less.
    I believe that outside of the western Roman Empire, Rome more fully expressed itself in the eastern Roman Empire, and that empire continued without a break until WWI. By the end of WWI the region of the Ottomans had been split into approximately ten regions awaiting to give a future Turkey their power. It was the allies, the British Empire which was most involved in splitting the Ottoman Empire up into smaller pieces. And among those pieces has risen a small country Israel.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire
    "The Byzantine Empire, also referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantium, was the continuation of the Roman Empire in its eastern provinces during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, when its capital city was Constantinople (modern-day Fatih, İstanbul, and formerly Byzantium). It survived the fragmentation and fall of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century AD and continued to exist for an additional thousand years until it fell to the Ottoman Turks in 1453"

    When Mehmed conquered Constantinople, he went to great lengths to ensure the continuity of the Roman Empire, keeping structures intact, having his own ancestral claim to the throne, and he kept the prior heirs to the throne in powerful positions within his empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_the_Conqueror
    "After the conquest of Constantinople, Mehmed claimed the title "Caesar" of the Roman Empire (Qayser-i Rûm), based on the assertion that Constantinople had been the seat and capital of the Roman Empire since 330 AD, and whoever possessed the Imperial capital was the ruler of the Empire.[12] The contemporary scholar George of Trebizond supported his claim.[13][14] The claim was not recognized by the Catholic Church and most of, if not all, Western Europe, but was recognized by the Eastern Orthodox Church. Mehmed had installed Gennadius Scholarius, a staunch antagonist of the West, as the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople-New Rome with all the ceremonial elements, ethnarch (or milletbashi) status and rights of property that made him the second largest landlord in the said empire by the Sultan himself in 1454, and in turn Gennadius II recognized Mehmed the Conqueror as successor to the throne.[15][16] Mehmed also had a blood lineage to the Byzantine Imperial family: his predecessor, Sultan Orhan I, had married a Byzantine princess, and Mehmed claimed descent from John Tzelepes Komnenos.

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    Re: In Daniel the AC overthrows 3 kings/horns. In Revelation this does not happen. Wh

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude
    When Mehmed conquered Constantinople, he went to great lengths to ensure the continuity of the Roman Empire, keeping structures intact, having his own ancestral claim to the throne ...
    So, you are saying that the Ottoman empire was really a continuation of Rome? That's a stretch. Alexander's conquests were much the same. He fancied himself as the next Persian Emperor keeping Persian institutions and customs intact. He would have made Babylon his capital if it were not for his untimely death. Yet we all treat Greece as separate to the previous empire. I can't accept your construct DD.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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