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Thread: Seven year tribulation period

  1. #151

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    In every place that the phrase "the Day of the Lord" is used in the same contexts as the phrase "IN THAT DAY," they refer to the same time period (which is not merely a singular 24-hr day); and this is ALSO the case in 2 Thessalonians chapters 1 and 2 (and this clearly demonstrates that it is not merely made up on one singular 24-hr day).

    "The Day of the Lord"/"IN THAT DAY" refers to one or more of the following (depending on CONTEXT; but "the DOTL" consists of ALL THREE):

    1) the 7-yr tribulation period upon the earth (the "DARK" portion)

    2) Christ's Second Coming to the earth (the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" portion)

    3) His 1000-yr reign on/over the earth (the "reign...GLORIOUSLY" portion)


    ALL 3 of these (and ALL "earthly-located" time period).
    Sorry my friend. There is no scripture no where in the bible that supports this notion. If a period of time was to be implied, it would have been specified, as with all the other specific periods that state 3-1/2 years, 42 months, 3 days, 1260 days, and so on.

    Christ is risen from the dead and become the firstfruits of them that slept. In the day of the Lord, when he returns, the order of the resurrection is; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. That day will not end until all his unfinished work is complete. Until then, he will reign till he hath put all enemies under his feet. And last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    1 Corinthians 15
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    If there was 3-1/2 years, 7 years, or 1000 years between, Paul would have specified. He said, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God"

    My friend, you cannot get any more clear on this subject than this.

  2. #152

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Sorry my friend. There is no scripture no where in the bible that supports this notion. If a period of time was to be implied, it would have been specified, as with all the other specific periods that state 3-1/2 years, 42 months, 3 days, 1260 days, and so on.

    Christ is risen from the dead and become the firstfruits of them that slept. In the day of the Lord, when he returns, the order of the resurrection is; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. That day will not end until all his unfinished work is complete. Until then, he will reign till he hath put all enemies under his feet. And last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    1 Corinthians 15
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    If there was 3-1/2 years, 7 years, or 1000 years between, Paul would have specified. He said, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God"

    My friend, you cannot get any more clear on this subject than this.
    Here are a few things I've posted in the past, on these ^ :

    [quoting my previous posts]

    1 Corinthians 15:23-28 (note especially the bold I'm pointing out) -

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [<---note how far apart, time-wise, these two listed items take place]

    24 Then [G1534 - eita ] cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


    The word "G1534 - eita - THEN" is a SEQUENCE word "with no time-element attached" to it (unlike another Greek word translated "then" which is "G5119 - tote" like is used in 2Th2:8 and other places). THIS word for "THEN" (G1534) is only with regard to "SEQUENCE"... and if you'll notice the THREE items LISTED here START with Jesus' own Resurrection some 2000 YEARS [+] before the NEXT LISTED item. So it is no problem at all for the THIRD LISTED item to be speaking of something that SEQUENTIALLY takes place 1000 years after the second listed item! (Note: the word "comes [cometh]" is not in the text. The text just reads "THEN [G1534] the end"... and it is NOT "THEN IMMEDIATELY the end," as the Amill-teaching skews it to mean! )


    [and]

    The Thessalonians were being [wrongly] convinced that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT"... THAT was what was on their distraught minds, that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT"

    --not that it was "near / approaching," but "IS PRESENT"

    --not Jesus Himself, but "the Day of the Lord" (a time period involving JUDGMENTS and VERY NEGATIVE things, just like they were already ENDURING... so this idea that it "IS PRESENT" was PERFECTLY *REASONABLE* to them... they were not dippy people)

    --not that His Kingdom had arrived (SOMEwhere... over there, somewhere. No, they well knew of Jesus' teachings on that, Paul wasn't neglecting to tell them such truths)

    --not that "a singular 24-hr day" had arrived

    --and NOT [was on their distraught minds] anything about the "Caught Up/Away" Truth (absolutely no one had disappeared, and they were under NO SUCH DELUSION that that had taken place--the CONTEXT of their "thinking" was what Paul SAID, here, and that was, essentially, "don't let anyone convince you that THE DAY OF THE LORD [an EARTHLY TIME PERIOD involving JUDGMENTS, etc] IS PRESENT. [because] ONE THING must happen *FIRST*..." [according to the text here]. This is Paul's corrective to them [and this SEQUENCE is REPEATED 3x in this chpt 2, as well as being the SAME SEQUENCE as was shown in 1Th4-5!] And in verse 15 [at the other end of this entire context] says, basically, "believe what WE taught you INSTEAD!" And Paul had already acknowledged that they understood WHAT "the DOTL" involved and that [they knew perfectly that] it "so cometh as a thief IN THE NIGHT" in his previous letter to them, 5:2-3; [note: Jesus Himself will come "AS A THIEF." NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase accompanies this, when referring to HIM/HIS PERSON/HE HIMSELF!]

    --In 2Th2:3-9a, he is elaborating on this and saying that "the DOTL [time period]" won't be present [to unfold upon the earth] until ONE THING happens *FIRST* ... *AND* the man of sin BE REVEALED [and that happens at the START of the 7-yr trib, in the "whose COMING/ARRIVAL/ADVENT/PRESENCE/parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" parallels Daniel 9:27[26]'s "prince THAT SHALL COME"... "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]" at the BEGINNING of it [2Th2:3-9a has the SAME "BEGINNING, MIDDLE, END" that Dan9:27a/b/c does!], aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'," when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" at the START of the 7-yrs/70th-Wk when HE HIMSELF [in Heaven] will open the FIRST SEAL [aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" unfolding upon the earth)

    So "the DOTL [time period]" will be present at the same time that "the man of sin" is present to DO ALL he is slated TO DO (over the course of the ENTIRE 7-yr period: [its ARRIVAL at] its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END... ALL of that).


    [and this correlates precisely with]

    "... note additionally the TWO "PUNISH" words (in Isaiah 24:21-22[23]) which are SEPARATED by "and after many days" (meaning, that "punish" not only occurs at His Second Coming to the earth BUT ALSO the later GWTj [the TWO "punish" words in Isa24:21-22(23)]) and correlating [time-wise] with that of Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 at the time (context/setting) of His Second Coming to the earth. Meaning, there is still much "time" that will transpire on the earth following His Second Coming to the earth. And this is what the "IN THAT DAY" of Zechariah 14 shows [the MK time period]. So STARTING way back at the beginning of trib, and continuing [minus the "man of sin" after Christ's 2nd Coming to the earth] clear throughout the entire MK age. THAT is what the "IN WHICH" refers to in 2Pet3:10-12 [encompassing the entire span of time referred to (the DOTL time period)], as well as the "IN WHICH" of other passages (ex. Acts 17:31's "IN WHICH"), none of which are referring to merely "a singular 24-hr day" (2Pet3:10-12 should be understood in view of the entire context of Isaiah chpts 34-35 and not merely the single verse of 34:4, as 2Pet3:10-12's "IN WHICH" [in which DOTL time period] is a long span of time)


    [end of those quoted posts]


    I hope this helps you understand my perspective.

  3. #153

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Here are a few things I've posted in the past, on these ^ :

    [quoting my previous posts]

    1 Corinthians 15:23-28 (note especially the bold I'm pointing out) -

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [<---note how far apart, time-wise, these two listed items take place]

    24 Then [G1534 - eita ] cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


    The word "G1534 - eita - THEN" is a SEQUENCE word "with no time-element attached" to it (unlike another Greek word translated "then" which is "G5119 - tote" like is used in 2Th2:8 and other places). THIS word for "THEN" (G1534) is only with regard to "SEQUENCE"... and if you'll notice the THREE items LISTED here START with Jesus' own Resurrection some 2000 YEARS [+] before the NEXT LISTED item. So it is no problem at all for the THIRD LISTED item to be speaking of something that SEQUENTIALLY takes place 1000 years after the second listed item! (Note: the word "comes [cometh]" is not in the text. The text just reads "THEN [G1534] the end"... and it is NOT "THEN IMMEDIATELY the end," as the Amill-teaching skews it to mean! )


    [and]

    The Thessalonians were being [wrongly] convinced that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT"... THAT was what was on their distraught minds, that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT"

    --not that it was "near / approaching," but "IS PRESENT"

    --not Jesus Himself, but "the Day of the Lord" (a time period involving JUDGMENTS and VERY NEGATIVE things, just like they were already ENDURING... so this idea that it "IS PRESENT" was PERFECTLY *REASONABLE* to them... they were not dippy people)

    --not that His Kingdom had arrived (SOMEwhere... over there, somewhere. No, they well knew of Jesus' teachings on that, Paul wasn't neglecting to tell them such truths)

    --not that "a singular 24-hr day" had arrived

    --and NOT [was on their distraught minds] anything about the "Caught Up/Away" Truth (absolutely no one had disappeared, and they were under NO SUCH DELUSION that that had taken place--the CONTEXT of their "thinking" was what Paul SAID, here, and that was, essentially, "don't let anyone convince you that THE DAY OF THE LORD [an EARTHLY TIME PERIOD involving JUDGMENTS, etc] IS PRESENT. [because] ONE THING must happen *FIRST*..." [according to the text here]. This is Paul's corrective to them [and this SEQUENCE is REPEATED 3x in this chpt 2, as well as being the SAME SEQUENCE as was shown in 1Th4-5!] And in verse 15 [at the other end of this entire context] says, basically, "believe what WE taught you INSTEAD!" And Paul had already acknowledged that they understood WHAT "the DOTL" involved and that [they knew perfectly that] it "so cometh as a thief IN THE NIGHT" in his previous letter to them, 5:2-3; [note: Jesus Himself will come "AS A THIEF." NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase accompanies this, when referring to HIM/HIS PERSON/HE HIMSELF!]

    --In 2Th2:3-9a, he is elaborating on this and saying that "the DOTL [time period]" won't be present [to unfold upon the earth] until ONE THING happens *FIRST* ... *AND* the man of sin BE REVEALED [and that happens at the START of the 7-yr trib, in the "whose COMING/ARRIVAL/ADVENT/PRESENCE/parousia" of the man of sin "IN HIS TIME" parallels Daniel 9:27[26]'s "prince THAT SHALL COME"... "for ONE WEEK [7 yrs]" at the BEGINNING of it [2Th2:3-9a has the SAME "BEGINNING, MIDDLE, END" that Dan9:27a/b/c does!], aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'," when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" at the START of the 7-yrs/70th-Wk when HE HIMSELF [in Heaven] will open the FIRST SEAL [aka the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" unfolding upon the earth)

    So "the DOTL [time period]" will be present at the same time that "the man of sin" is present to DO ALL he is slated TO DO (over the course of the ENTIRE 7-yr period: [its ARRIVAL at] its BEGINNING, its MIDDLE, its END... ALL of that).


    [and this correlates precisely with]

    "... note additionally the TWO "PUNISH" words (in Isaiah 24:21-22[23]) which are SEPARATED by "and after many days" (meaning, that "punish" not only occurs at His Second Coming to the earth BUT ALSO the later GWTj [the TWO "punish" words in Isa24:21-22(23)]) and correlating [time-wise] with that of Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 at the time (context/setting) of His Second Coming to the earth. Meaning, there is still much "time" that will transpire on the earth following His Second Coming to the earth. And this is what the "IN THAT DAY" of Zechariah 14 shows [the MK time period]. So STARTING way back at the beginning of trib, and continuing [minus the "man of sin" after Christ's 2nd Coming to the earth] clear throughout the entire MK age. THAT is what the "IN WHICH" refers to in 2Pet3:10-12 [encompassing the entire span of time referred to (the DOTL time period)], as well as the "IN WHICH" of other passages (ex. Acts 17:31's "IN WHICH"), none of which are referring to merely "a singular 24-hr day" (2Pet3:10-12 should be understood in view of the entire context of Isaiah chpts 34-35 and not merely the single verse of 34:4, as 2Pet3:10-12's "IN WHICH" [in which DOTL time period] is a long span of time)


    [end of those quoted posts]


    I hope this helps you understand my perspective.
    None of any of this supports anything other than the events are connected to are same time event in the same day.

    Strong has the word "eita": Of uncertain affinity; a particle of succession (in time or logical enumeration), then, moreover - after that (-ward), futhermore.

    The word "eita" was inserted prior to the his statement of the day of the event, (verse 24) "then (a particle of succession (in time or logical enumeration), then, moreover - after that (-ward), futhermore) cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    So yes, the sequence starts at the point when the kingdom is delivered up to God, "at his coming".

    So my friend, your point is invalid.


    Your other point is also invalid. Because the day of Christ is at hand. Jesus told us directly that no man knows the hour or the day when the Lord comes, so to be prepared. Indeed, "the day" is at hand. But none of these scriptures anywhere suggests that the period is more that one day. Paul says "that day" and he also says "the day of Christ". No where implied the event is anything such as an extended time period or anything more than one day.

    So, again, all you suggest is total conjecture, and not supported by the scripture.

    The 2 Thessalonians 2
    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    The word "G1534 - eita - THEN" is a SEQUENCE word "with no time-element attached" to it (unlike another Greek word translated "then" which is "G5119 - tote" like is used in 2Th2:8 and other places). THIS word for "THEN" (G1534) is only with regard to "SEQUENCE"... and if you'll notice the THREE items LISTED here START with Jesus' own Resurrection some 2000 YEARS [+] before the NEXT LISTED item. So it is no problem at all for the THIRD LISTED item to be speaking of something that SEQUENTIALLY takes place 1000 years after the second listed item! (Note: the word "comes [cometh]" is not in the text. The text just reads "THEN [G1534] the end"... and it is NOT "THEN IMMEDIATELY the end," as the Amill-teaching skews it to mean! )
    You are attempting to take what Paul was saying out of context to support your position. Let's stick to what the scripture actually says, and not what you imply that he said.

    Paul said that every man will be risen from the dead in his own order. He was not being specific regrading the time event in this passage. He was referring to the order. The order of the resurrection is Christ the firstfruits, being the 1st order of the risen from the dead. The next order are "afterward they that are Christ's at his coming". And then, cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God.

    So yes, Paul is very clear in this point to eliminate any and all shadow of doubt that Christ was the 1st raised and then the next one is afterward "they" at his coming. Then he gives the sequence of end event that will occur "at his coming.... when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God," The word "When" ties the end with that of delivering up the kingdom. You can't make this to be 3-1/2 years apart, 7 years apart, or 1000 years apart. It happens "when".... Which ties it to the same events of his coming.

    1 Corinthians 15
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    There is no way you can justify your position with the things you wrote. It is not at all valid and the scriptures proves that it is invalid.

  4. #154
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    In every place that the phrase "the Day of the Lord" is used in the same contexts as the phrase "IN THAT DAY," they refer to the same time period (which is not merely a singular 24-hr day); and this is ALSO the case in 2 Thessalonians chapters 1 and 2 (and this clearly demonstrates that it is not merely made up on one singular 24-hr day).

    "The Day of the Lord"/"IN THAT DAY" refers to one or more of the following (depending on CONTEXT; but "the DOTL" consists of ALL THREE):

    1) the 7-yr tribulation period upon the earth (the "DARK" portion)

    2) Christ's Second Coming to the earth (the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" portion)

    3) His 1000-yr reign on/over the earth (the "reign...GLORIOUSLY" portion)


    ALL 3 of these (and ALL "earthly-located" time period).
    It is a fallacy to say that a single word or phrase must mean something regardless of the context, simply because it is used elsewhere in a particular way. You tend to do this with "Day of the Lord," and with "Birth Pains." Words and phrases mean what they mean *in context.* You are not free to extrapolate from a previous instance what a completely different use of a word or phrase may mean.

    To conclude that there is a "Dark, Arise, and Glorious" portion of the "Day of the Lord," regardless the context, is not valid. This full meaning is not fully loaded into the term unless the context requires it. And this has never been proven in all instances.

    I will give you this, that the term "Day of the Lord" is a ubiquitous term, and has been used, biblically, for judgment, restoration, and an era of blessing. This does not dictate, however, how it is to be used in NT eschatology. It is the context that determines how it is to be used.

    Some of your points may be valid. But I suspect your hermeneutics.

  5. #155

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Paul said that every man will be risen from the dead in his own order. He was not being specific regrading the time event in this passage. He was referring to the order. The order of the resurrection is Christ the firstfruits, being the 1st order of the risen from the dead. The next order are "afterward they that are Christ's at his coming". And then, cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God.

    So yes, Paul is very clear in this point to eliminate any and all shadow of doubt that Christ was the 1st raised and then the next one is afterward "they" at his coming. Then he gives the sequence of end event that will occur "at his coming.... when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God," The word "When" ties the end with that of delivering up the kingdom. You can't make this to be 3-1/2 years apart, 7 years apart, or 1000 years apart. It happens "when".... Which ties it to the same events of his coming.

    1 Corinthians 15
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

    There is no way you can justify your position with the things you wrote. It is not at all valid and the scriptures proves that it is invalid.
    Where it says "THEN the end" (using the "G1534 - eita" word in v.24), note also that the previous verse uses a related word (translated in English as "afterward") "G1899 - epeita," meaning, "only then" (and this speaks to those [plural] "at His coming" [Daniel 12:13; Matt8:11 and parallel; Job 19:25-26; John 11:25-26 "IN the last day"; (ALL FOR the earthly MK time period) etc], and not "the Church which is His body [singular]" who, as Paul continually makes point of, are "G4862 - syn - UNITED-with / IDENTIFIED-with" Him [Christ], just as Eve was taken out of Adam on the 6th Day and joined to Him (not the 7th/Last Day ).

  6. #156

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Your other point is also invalid. Because the day of Christ is at hand. Jesus told us directly that no man knows the hour or the day when the Lord comes, so to be prepared. Indeed, "the day" is at hand. But none of these scriptures anywhere suggests that the period is more that one day. Paul says "that day" and he also says "the day of Christ". No where implied the event is anything such as an extended time period or anything more than one day.

    So, again, all you suggest is total conjecture, and not supported by the scripture.

    The 2 Thessalonians 2
    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    Incorrect. The word is not "is AT HAND," but "IS PRESENT [PERFECT tense]" and this word is used in the PERFECT tense 6 out of the 7x it is used (the other being "future tense"): https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm … every time it's used in the "perfect tense" it means "is present"...

    and "the Day of the Lord" (what 2Th2 should read, as most agree) is always and ever ONLY "EARTHLY-located" (in contrast to "the Day of Christ/our Lord Jesus Christ" which is when WE ["the Church which is His body"] will be present UP THERE "with Him" [at our Rapture])


    You are attempting to take what Paul was saying out of context to support your position. Let's stick to what the scripture actually says, and not what you imply that he said.

  7. #157

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    ...not "the Church which is His body [singular]" who, as Paul continually makes point of, are "G4862 - syn - UNITED-with / IDENTIFIED-with" Him [Christ], just as Eve was taken out of Adam on the 6th Day and joined to Him (not the 7th/Last Day ).
    EDIT: should read "[Eve taken out of Adam...] and joined to him" (lowercase "h" not CAPS, as I had it )

  8. #158

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    […]portion of the "Day of the Lord," regardless the context, is not valid. This full meaning is not fully loaded into the term unless the context requires it. And this has never been proven in all instances.

    I will give you this, that the term "Day of the Lord" is a ubiquitous term, and has been used, biblically, for judgment, restoration, and an era of blessing. This does not dictate, however, how it is to be used in NT eschatology. It is the context that determines how it is to be used.
    My point is simply: in the places where [the phrase] "the Day of the Lord" is used IN THE SAME CONTEXT as [the phrase] "IN THAT DAY,", that they refer to the SAME TIME PERIOD (and such is indeed the case of the context of 2 Thess 1-2 [both chpts' context], where a CONTRAST is being made between what some will come to believe [in that future time period] as opposed to what others will believe [in that future time period]--"The DOTL"/"IN THAT DAY" being the SAME future time period, and the context here proves that [the wording of] "IN THAT DAY" is indeed a "time period," rather than "a singular 24-hr day". THIS is where I get my point from: the context itself! as I pointed out)

  9. #159

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Incorrect. The word is not "is AT HAND," but "IS PRESENT [PERFECT tense]" and this word is used in the PERFECT tense 6 out of the 7x it is used (the other being "future tense"): https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm … every time it's used in the "perfect tense" it means "is present"...

    and "the Day of the Lord" (what 2Th2 should read, as most agree) is always and ever ONLY "EARTHLY-located" (in contrast to "the Day of Christ/our Lord Jesus Christ" which is when WE ["the Church which is His body"] will be present UP THERE "with Him" [at our Rapture])
    My friend, he says, "that the day"

    The KJV says "at hand".

    Strong has the word hand as "enistemi" - to place at hand, that is, (reflexively) impend, (particle) be instant; come, be at hand, present.

    Again, this is exactly what Jesus told us. The day will come as a thief in the night. No man knows when the day or the hour. So Paul was preaching the gospel of Jesus, as "that the day of Christ is at hand". We preach the same gospel today.

    Then again in the following verse 3, "that day shall not come".

    So yout points are all invalid and none support you position. None of your positions are at all supported by the scriptures.

    2 Thessalonians 2
    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Instead of trying to imply what it is implied in other places of the bible, let's keep our focus on how it is used in the context of Pauls teaching where he inserted the words. Lets not twist or reshape the words to mean something other that what is written in the context of the passage.

    Otherwise, you will come up with all kinds of theories other that what the bible actually says.

  10. #160

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Incorrect. The word is not "is AT HAND," but "IS PRESENT [PERFECT tense]" and this word is used in the PERFECT tense 6 out of the 7x it is used (the other being "future tense"): https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm … every time it's used in the "perfect tense" it means "is present"...

    and "the Day of the Lord" (what 2Th2 should read, as most agree) is always and ever ONLY "EARTHLY-located" (in contrast to "the Day of Christ/our Lord Jesus Christ" which is when WE ["the Church which is His body"] will be present UP THERE "with Him" [at our Rapture])
    Verse 1 - [refers to our Rapture event]

    Verse 2 - Paul is telling them not to be convinced by anyone telling them that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (this was easy for them to fall for that "false" word, seeing as they were presently and ongoingly enduring "persecutions and tribulations" per 1:4)

    Verse 3 - Paul is saying, "that day [the one mentioned in the IMMEDIATELY-PRECEDING verse [v.2!], GRAMMATICALLY!] will not be present, if not shall have come THE Departure *FIRST* [THIS now is the event of v.1! (ONE THING *FIRST* [not two!] has to occur)], and the man of sin BE REVEALED..." [<--"the DOTL" WILL be present THEN!]

  11. #161

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    My friend, he says, "that the day"

    The KJV says "at hand".

    Strong has the word hand as "enistemi" - to place at hand, that is, (reflexively) impend, (particle) be instant; come, be at hand, present.
    Did you even look at all [6x] that "PERFECT TENSE" is used, for this word (at link)?? Every time, it's speaking of something already present (not soon to be, or upcoming, or at hand)

  12. #162

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    In 2Th2:2 it is "perfect indicative":

    [quoting from Greek grammar source] "Perfect - Completed, with Results - Time Element (In Indicative Mood): past, with present results"

  13. #163

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Verse 1 - [refers to our Rapture event]

    Verse 2 - Paul is telling them not to be convinced by anyone telling them that "the Day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (this was easy for them to fall for that "false" word, seeing as they were presently and ongoingly enduring "persecutions and tribulations" per 1:4)

    Verse 3 - Paul is saying, "that day [the one mentioned in the IMMEDIATELY-PRECEDING verse [v.2!], GRAMMATICALLY!] will not be present, if not shall have come THE Departure *FIRST* [THIS now is the event of v.1! (ONE THING *FIRST* [not two!] has to occur)], and the man of sin BE REVEALED..." [<--"the DOTL" WILL be present THEN!]
    verse 1- Was referring to "the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him." That's what the texts says, and does not say "rapture event".

    verse 2 - not be troubled because "that the day of Christ is at hand". This is a 2nd reassurance from the previous passages when he already said to them, "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels (2 Thessalonians 1:7)". This is the gospel of Jesus, "that the day of Christ is at hand.)

    verse 3 - "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" The day will not come until after the man of sin is revealed.


    2 Thessalonians 2
    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    I am very sorry my friend, you can't make something out of this, that is not written nor implied.

  14. #164

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I will give you this, that the term "Day of the Lord" is a ubiquitous term, and has been used, biblically, for judgment, restoration, and an era of blessing. This does not dictate, however, how it is to be used in NT eschatology. It is the context that determines how it is to be used.

    Some of your points may be valid. But I suspect your hermeneutics.
    2Th2 is preceded by 1Th5, where Paul had already said the Thessalonians "knew perfectly" something about the term [used].

    ["COMETH UPON" those others/unsaved persons, just like an INITIAL birth pang does , and an INITIAL birth pang never remains alone... it continues on to many more birth pangs, which ultimately lead to something else that is no longer birth pangs ]

  15. #165

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Where it says "THEN the end" (using the "G1534 - eita" word in v.24), note also that the previous verse uses a related word (translated in English as "afterward") "G1899 - epeita," meaning, "only then" (and this speaks to those [plural] "at His coming" [Daniel 12:13; Matt8:11 and parallel; Job 19:25-26; John 11:25-26 "IN the last day"; (ALL FOR the earthly MK time period) etc], and not "the Church which is His body [singular]" who, as Paul continually makes point of, are "G4862 - syn - UNITED-with / IDENTIFIED-with" Him [Christ], just as Eve was taken out of Adam on the 6th Day and joined to Him (not the 7th/Last Day ).
    Yes, "then the end", is related to "afterward the end" and also "only the end". But none of this implies to a plural sense.

    And the rest of your post is not at all relevant to the passage of Paul. Nor am I interested in knowing what you believe is being implied by other books of the bible. All the scriptures stand on their own without implying what they really mean, or what the writer intended to say.

    The only thing you should consider is; What does the scripture say? This is all that is relevant.

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