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Thread: Seven year tribulation period

  1. #196
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Revelation 2:8 uses the exact same Greek word [G2198 - ezēsen] (as Rev20:4), but are you going to suggest that this verse does not suggest Jesus "resurrected" [i.e. 'lived again']?? https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/2-8.htm


    ...and the word "souls" is used in the following verses, of persons, but are you suggesting that the bodies of these folks were "on holiday" while the "souls" of these persons were all that these contexts held/describe/were concerned with?

    --"Therefore those indeed having received his word were baptized, and on that day about three thousand souls were added." Acts 2:41 [does this mean that "souls were added" to these somewhat-lacking bodies they already possessed, like prepping ingredients to a cake mix??]

    --"And Joseph, having sent, called for his father Jacob and all the kindred, seventy-five souls in all." Acts 7:14 [did Joseph say, "don't bother bringing your bodies along, I only have need of your 'souls'. Your bods can chill out!"]

    --"And we were altogether two hundred seventy-six souls in the ship." Acts 27:37 [had all the bodies decided to jump ship and do some deep-sea diving for awhile, while the 'souls' were sunning on the deck of the ship?]

    --"at one time having disobeyed, when the longsuffering of God was waiting in the days of Noah, of the ark being prepared, in which a few--that is, eight souls--were saved through water" 1 Peter 3:20 [was it that the 'souls' were actually dragged through the water while the bodies resided high and dry on the ark, or was it vice versa, do you think?]


    I believe that the word "thrones" gives us a major clue, as to whether these persons exist only in their "souls" (in this context), or whether this word actually means "persons" [who "lived again" G2198 https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/20-4.htm (like this same Greek word says of Jesus in Rev2:8)], just as all of the above-mentioned verses prove to refer to whole persons (though not "resurrected" ones, except for Rev2:8/Jesus, as I said).
    Correctly stated. CONTEXT shows beyond doubt, that this is a SEPARATE resurrection, as it divides the resurrection into BEFORE the 1,000 years and AFTER the 1,000 years AND that this is of PEOPLE, using the word soul to mean the entire person.

  2. #197

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Do you mean, just theirs, or that "their souls" were included with others' also, at the time? (I'm guessing you mean the latter)
    I believe only souls were resurrected with Jesus. But to be honest, I could be persuaded it was body and soul. I have gone back and forth on this for 30 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    So, I'm guessing you believe the references to "the 144,000" (Rev7 and Rev14) were people in the past [??] rather than people in the future (or no... just that you are referring to their "souls" that didn't exist yet??), do I understand you correctly? I agree that they are called "firstfruit," and in the past I've pointed out the TWO distinct "firstfruit" of Leviticus 23: 1) in verses 10-12; 2) in v.17... I believe the first one refers to JESUS [SINGULAR, but not alone (per Paul's references to US)] which took place ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection Day [I believe He "[ACTIVELY] ASCEND[-ed]" that very day]; and the second one [Lev23:17] referring to "the 144,000 [plural]" and that they have not yet taken their place in time/history (though I do believe Paul was a "TYPE" of the future 144,000... "as of one born out of due time" [or, BEFORE the rest]). I could supply more scripture references for this (as I have in the past), but I'm outta gas for now...
    I believe the term 144,000 is a term coined to represent the chosen of Israel. Whether it was 144,001 or an enumerable number, I do not know. But I believe it could have been any large number of people.

    I believe the souls of the chosen of Israel who died before Christ died were resurrected when Christ rose, so they were indeed in heaven with Jesus. But if you read regarding the ones that were sealed 12,000 in each tribe, you will notice that the tribe of Dan was not sealed 12,000. The tribe of Dan was cut off. This is why I believe these 144,000 was a representation of the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel, who were cut off because of their unbelief, when the apostle turned to the gentiles. These will later be converted to Christ under the preaching of the 2 witnesses.

  3. #198

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    I'm not needing to discuss these.

    If you would like to see WHY I am saying that "time" [on the earth] FOLLOWS the point/s in time spoken of in each of the passages I listed, feel free to take a look at them / examine them thoroughly (which is what I expect someone in discussion together will do, with regard to each others' posts and scriptural references supporting their POINTS), and if you happen to disagree with how that/those support/s MY POINT [that "time" follows on from those, on the earth], then feel free to point out how you disagree. This is something I would be happy to discuss. But I've already supplied the references in support of the point I have already made. I'm not wanting to make it again.

    Good night, bro.
    The book of Revelation is not written as a story book to be interpreted in the order as written in Chronological order from start to finish. From chapter 4 onward, the book tells the same story over and over again several times, each time from a different view point or perspective. The things that happen in chapter 7 happened after some of the events in chapter 12. And some of the events in chapter 20 happened before the events in chapters 9.

    The only way to piece together the events is to diagram it like we did with Paul's teachings. Paul described our gathering unto him is only after the wicked man of sin is revealed. He also described the order of the resurrection of the just and unjust. Which puts our gathering to him as the 1st order, and then the destruction on those that trouble the Christians and the man of sin as happening afterward. So with all of this diagramed out, how does it compare with Revelation?

    We can do this too with Revelation, we know that the Beast that arose out of the pit killed the 2 witnesses, We know that he was in the pit for 1000 years. We know that his period is for 42 months. We know that God destroys him with the brightness of his coming.

    But Revelation is not written like a story book to be interpreted in that way. When we attempt to place the events in chronological order, then the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and Peter become a stumbling stone to our understanding.

    The teaching in Matthew, Corinthians, Thessalonians, Peter is plain spoken and are not written as a mystery for those who hath understanding to let him hear. But as we read revelation, then we should consider to ensure our understanding of Revelation does not conflict with those other teaching of the Jesus and the apostles.


    In my opinion the teachings of John Darby and Cyrus Scofield has really poisoned the beliefs of Eschatology. It was not only in their teachings, but Scofield came up with the Scofield reference bible that has notes and references of scripture that falsely points certain scriptures to align them to others, providing a slant to the real meaning of the scriptures just to support their position. Then in the early 1900's, well known ministers and missionary scholars were taught their theory's in missionary schools and they pushed this doctrine into main stream communities, TV programs, books and so forth.

    But this was not the believe system of the early church history until around the 1800's. This is my opinion and I know there are so many that will dispute this idea, but the scriptures as a whole do not prove out their teachings of Eschatology. In fact, I wonder if this is the same form that the antichrist will use, to get in and poison the Christians by perverting the gospel and the teachings of the very word, causing them to believe a lie.

  4. #199

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Revelation 2:8 uses the exact same Greek word [G2198 - ezēsen] (as Rev20:4), but are you going to suggest that this verse does not suggest Jesus "resurrected" [i.e. 'lived again']?? https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/2-8.htm


    ...and the word "souls" is used in the following verses, of persons, but are you suggesting that the bodies of these folks were "on holiday" while the "souls" of these persons were all that these contexts held/describe/were concerned with?
    The bible said plainly that John saw the souls of those that were beheaded. He said the 1st resurrection is after the 1000 years.

    So you can't put something in there that is not written. Therefore, you have no choice but to imply what it really means is this or it really means that.

    If he intended you to believe they were anything other than souls, then he would have mentioned it just like he did when he described the 1st resurrection of being after the 1000 years. This supports the teaching of Paul, "in that day" our gathering is when he destroys the wicked and the man of sin. "In that day" when the Lord is revealed.

    Not 7 years in between and not 1000 years in between. But "In that day".

  5. #200

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    He said the 1st resurrection is after the 1000 years.
    No he didn't.

    He said, "THE REST lived not again until the 1000 years shall have been completed. THIS [what you see right here and now in this context] is the first resurrection" (but the later [when "THE REST" are brought before the GWT] is not the "THIS" John is talking about! JUST LIKE how in 1Cor15:53's TWO "THIS" words refer SPECIFICALLY and ONLY to the verses 51-52 people [i.e. "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (both the "dead IN Christ" AND the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto")… "MYSTERY"--Recall, Martha WELL-KNEW of "resurrection," so THAT was NO MYSTERY to OT saints!!]... and not specifically applicable here to ALL ppl everywhere! [though eventually "resurrection" will apply, but that is not the CONTEXT in this usage of "THIS" here in 1Cor15:51-52,53!! which is referring to a very SPECIFIC "dead" and "still-living" "IN CHRIST"/"CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY" )

  6. #201

    Re: Seven year tribulation period


  7. #202

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    The book of Revelation is not written as a story book to be interpreted in the order as written in Chronological order from start to finish. From chapter 4 onward, the book tells the same story over and over again several times, each time from a different view point or perspective.

    Wait a second, you're not going to try to tell me that the "SEALS--TRUMPETS--VIALS" are NOT to occur SEQUENTIALLY. Have you fallen for that falsehood?? oh boy...


    [by the way, I've not said that every word in the Revelation is showing a Chronological order in its entirety, I agree there is some back-tracking or further elaboration in some places... but there ARE SOME things that ARE INDEED "chronological" such as what I've referred to (or, if you prefer, "SAID") above, as well as the general outline in 1:19 (with 19c being the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" aspects of the Book, which are the 1:1/4:1/7:3 FUTURE aspects of the Book, that last exactly 2520 days from Rev5 [opening SEAL #1] to Rev19 [His "RETURN" to the earth], and I could supply Scripture but don't have time to elaborate right now... I've supplied some of that in past [old] posts of mine)]

  8. #203
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Nowhere does Paul state this is about what happens AFTER the Millennium. This is ENTIRELY your own conjecture, especially based on failing to note that ONLY those who are IN Christ are being discussed as receiving eternal life at this juncture.
    Paul never states in his prophecy of 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, that it happens at Jesus' Return, either.
    It is your unsupported conjecture that it does.
    Eternal life is given to those whose names are in the Book of Life, only opened at the GWT Judgment.

    I proved it happens after the Millennium, by the fact that then; Death is no more. We know people will die during the Millennium. Isaiah 65:20
    You are wrong and your fav theory of a 'rapture to heaven' will never happen.

  9. #204

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    No he didn't.

    He said, "THE REST lived not again until the 1000 years shall have been completed. THIS [what you see right here and now in this context] is the first resurrection" (but the later [when "THE REST" are brought before the GWT] is not the "THIS" John is talking about! JUST LIKE how in 1Cor15:53's TWO "THIS" words refer SPECIFICALLY and ONLY to the verses 51-52 people [i.e. "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (both the "dead IN Christ" AND the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto")… "MYSTERY"--Recall, Martha WELL-KNEW of "resurrection," so THAT was NO MYSTERY to OT saints!!]... and not specifically applicable here to ALL ppl everywhere! [though eventually "resurrection" will apply, but that is not the CONTEXT in this usage of "THIS" here in 1Cor15:51-52,53!! which is referring to a very SPECIFIC "dead" and "still-living" "IN CHRIST"/"CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY" )
    I don't understand how you could interpret this in any other way. It states the dead did not live again until after the 1000 years and says "this" is the first resurrection. Living again after death is the definition of resurrection and it clearly states it the "first resurrection", and not the second.

    Revelation 20:5
    But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    The scripture says what it says. I realize that you believe it is to be interpreted in another way other than the way it is written. But lets stick with what the scripture actually says and not what John intended it to mean.

  10. #205

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Wait a second, you're not going to try to tell me that the "SEALS--TRUMPETS--VIALS" are NOT to occur SEQUENTIALLY. Have you fallen for that falsehood?? oh boy...


    [by the way, I've not said that every word in the Revelation is showing a Chronological order in its entirety, I agree there is some back-tracking or further elaboration in some places... but there ARE SOME things that ARE INDEED "chronological" such as what I've referred to (or, if you prefer, "SAID") above, as well as the general outline in 1:19 (with 19c being the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" aspects of the Book, which are the 1:1/4:1/7:3 FUTURE aspects of the Book, that last exactly 2520 days from Rev5 [opening SEAL #1] to Rev19 [His "RETURN" to the earth], and I could supply Scripture but don't have time to elaborate right now... I've supplied some of that in past [old] posts of mine)]
    No, I believe they are in consecutive order. The ones I like to give focus on is the 5th, 6th, and 7th of each. Regarding the trumpets, notice John mentions and aligns the 5th trumpet with the 1st woe, 6th trumpet with the 2nd woe and 7th trumpet with the 3rd woe. There are several places in Revelation where events are mentioned as a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd woe. This will also help determine the order of events where they fall.

    But regarding the seals, I believe the 7th seal incorporates all the 7 trumpets. And the 7th trumpet incorporates the 7 vials. But with each of the opening of each one of these, John introduces visions that may or may not be associated with that particular event.

    Notice in Revelation 10: When this angel lifted up his hand to heaven and swore by him that liveth forever, that the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer. Then when this happens, that is it. Nothing else is living from this point onward. But was this the 6th trumpet or the seventh trumpet when he actually did this? The next verse makes me think it may have actually been in the 7th because verse 7 says in the days of the voice of the seventh angel begins to sound, the mystery of God should be finished.

    Revelation 10:
    5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
    6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
    7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    Then we turn to chapter 11 and John writes about the 2 witnesses which were killed by the beast. The 2 witnesses prophesied for 3-1/2 years, and most likely, their ministry began before the 6th trumpet because the beast that killed them was in the 6th trumpet.

    Revelation 11:
    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

  11. #206
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I don't understand how you could interpret this in any other way. It states the dead did not live again until after the 1000 years and says "this" is the first resurrection. Living again after death is the definition of resurrection and it clearly states it the "first resurrection", and not the second.

    Revelation 20:5
    But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    The scripture says what it says. I realize that you believe it is to be interpreted in another way other than the way it is written. But lets stick with what the scripture actually says and not what John intended it to mean.
    Scripture does indeed say what it says and it does NOT say what YOU are claiming it says.
    You say it says (I underline in your quote above) "It states the dead did not live again..."
    However that is NOT what scripture says. There is an IMPORTANT difference between what scripture says and what you claim it says.
    You see you put in BOLD the part which does NOT clarify clearly. I will underline from the scripture what you are IGNORING:
    "But the rest of the dead"
    Now what does "the rest of" mean? It means a GROUP separate to the others.
    So PLEASE try to stick with what the scripture actually says and not what YOU want it to mean.
    The sentence this is the "first resurrection" is NOT a sentence in reference to "the rest of the dead". It is a sentence related to those who lived and reigned.
    You see remove the verses and you have this:
    Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.*The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.*Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

    When you put it like this you see that the part about "the rest of the dead (who do not come to life)" is but a parenthesis within the passage.

  12. #207
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Paul never states in his prophecy of 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, that it happens at Jesus' Return, either.
    Actually Paul does.
    He states it SPECIFICALLY in THREE ways:
    1) In 1 Cor 15:23 & 24 Paul explains the ORDER of events:
    1Co 15:23* But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.*Then comes the end,...
    Here then Paul has noted three groups.

    2) Then Paul speaks about US - not the whole world, but WE.
    1Co 15:49* Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

    Now this verse CANNOT apply to everyone. ONLY Christians shall bear the image of the man of heaven. Are you truly claiming that this verse speaks of EVERYONE? Will everyone be transformed into the likeness of God's Son?

    3) Next Paul speaks to his brothers and speaks of US, and associates US with himself as WE:
    1Co 15:50* I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.*
    1Co 15:51* Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,*
    1Co 15:52* in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.*

    This speaks about Christians ONLY. Notice in verse 50 it states the perishable does NOT inherit the imperishable. Which therefore disqualifies anyone who is NOT IN Christ.
    Yet verse 51 states WE shall be changed and verse 52 states the dead will be raised imperishable.
    So WHO is raised imperishable?
    The dead, yet which dead are so raised? ONLY those who are IN Christ. The rest of the dead are NOT in Christ and are NOT raised imperishable. They are NOT given Eternal Life.

    You fail to grasp that this passage is SPECIFICALLY about those who are IN Christ and so try to make it a UNIVERSAL application, when it is NOT.

  13. #208
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually Paul does.
    He states it SPECIFICALLY in THREE ways:
    1) In 1 Cor 15:23 & 24 Paul explains the ORDER of events:
    1Co 15:23* But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.*Then comes the end,...
    Here then Paul has noted three groups.

    2) Then Paul speaks about US - not the whole world, but WE.
    1Co 15:49* Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.

    Now this verse CANNOT apply to everyone. ONLY Christians shall bear the image of the man of heaven. Are you truly claiming that this verse speaks of EVERYONE? Will everyone be transformed into the likeness of God's Son?

    3) Next Paul speaks to his brothers and speaks of US, and associates US with himself as WE:
    1Co 15:50* I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.*
    1Co 15:51* Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,*
    1Co 15:52* in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.*

    This speaks about Christians ONLY. Notice in verse 50 it states the perishable does NOT inherit the imperishable. Which therefore disqualifies anyone who is NOT IN Christ.
    Yet verse 51 states WE shall be changed and verse 52 states the dead will be raised imperishable.
    So WHO is raised imperishable?
    The dead, yet which dead are so raised? ONLY those who are IN Christ. The rest of the dead are NOT in Christ and are NOT raised imperishable. They are NOT given Eternal Life.

    You fail to grasp that this passage is SPECIFICALLY about those who are IN Christ and so try to make it a UNIVERSAL application, when it is NOT.
    Pauls prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 has been grabbed by the 'rapture to heaven' proponents.
    It is a prophecy entirely about what happens at the Great White Throne Judgment. This is indisputably proved by how it is only then, that Death is no more. At the GWT, everyone who has ever lived will be raised to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

    Those who belong to Christ, will receive immortality, the rest go to eternal damnation. The interesting facet of this transformation, is that the people who have not died by then, but do have their names Written in the Book of Life, will change directly into immortal bodies.
    We have already been over verse 23; those at His coming who belong to Christ.... We are plainly told they are just the martyrs of the GT, the rest of the dead await the GWT.

    Your mis-interpretation and additions to this scripture is a result of the false belief that it takes place sometime before the end of the Millennium.

  14. #209

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The sentence this is the "first resurrection" is NOT a sentence in reference to "the rest of the dead". It is a sentence related to those who lived and reigned
    The souls of the beheaded who lived and reigned in verse 4, were resurrected after the 1000-year period, because this is when John said the first resurrection is. It says clearly in verse 5.

    My friend, there is only (1) first resurrections. No where does it say the ones in verse 4, that these were resurrected. John saw souls of the beheaded.

    You will need to look at verse 5 regarding resurrected people. This is where he speaks referring to the first resurrection and notice, he does not refer to these as "souls" in verse 5. Why? Because they are resurrected people and not souls of dead. After after the 1000-year period, they become resurrected and no where in the bible does it say before the 1000-years they are resurrected. "No where" my friend does it say this.

    So please stick with what the bible says, rather than implying what you think occurred in verse 4.

    Revelation 20:
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

  15. #210

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    When you put it like this you see that the part about "the rest of the dead (who do not come to life)" is but a parenthesis within the passage.
    AGREED!


    _______

    Further (and where you and I tend to disagree a bit), this passage in 1Cor15:51-53 refers solely to "the Church which is His body" in the phrases "THIS corruption ["the DEAD IN Christ"]" and "THIS mortal" [the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"] of the "mystery" that had not yet been disclosed before Paul was tasked with doing so; but we see that Martha, and ALL OT saints already WELL-UNDERSTOOD about "resurrection [IN the Last Day]"... but this what Paul is saying here, was not yet disclosed [but he is disclosing said "mystery" here]; and...


    1Cor15:23 had said "[re: resurrection] but each IN HIS OWN ORDER" (meaning, there remains more than one... but that "the resurrection OF LIFE" [being distinct from "the resurrection of damnation"], John 5:29, has more than one-point-in-time of application: firstfruit Christ in 32ad, the "many" that arose also at that time in 32ad, "the Church which is His body [the 'ONE BODY']"'s 'dead IN Christ' at the time of our Rapture, the two witnesses at the 6th Trumpet time-slot, the martyred/beheaded trib saints and those saints who die in the trib in Rev20:4, the OT saints "at the end of the days [the specific 'days' referred to in THAT context, Dan12:6-7,1, meaning AFTER/END of the trib, per Dan12:13]--ALL of THAT referring to "the FIRST resurrection" ['the resurrection OF LIFE'] but "EACH IN HIS OWN ORDER" [sequence/chronology] )

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