Page 16 of 16 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213141516
Results 226 to 236 of 236

Thread: Seven year tribulation period

  1. #226
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Not adding anything to 1 Thess 4. It very simply states those who WERE dead are brought to life and meet Jesus in the clouds. 1 Cor 15 also notes this event and states that those who were in Christ are clothed in immortality.

    Actually this clearly IS to immortality, as it states that those who are raised to life in this first resurrection will NOT suffer the second death - for it has no power over them.

    As 1 Cor 15 IS the SAME event as 1 Thess 4, so your claim is wrong. You are trying to claim it is a different time, but 1 Cor 15 EXPLICITLY is AT the return.
    Your insistent belief that something which is clearly shown, somehow isn't makes you look...
    You are so locked into your beliefs that any thing different to what you hold to, is just not even considered.
    ! Corinthians 15 is NOT all about the Return. From verse 24 to 56 is all about after the Millennium, when Jesus hands the Kingdom back to the Father. Read that passage carefully and see how any idea any of it is before the end, as verse 24 EXPLICITLY states; is impossible.

    In verse 23 Paul states: Christ the firstfruits, then at His Return, those who belong to Christ.
    Then we see in Revelation 20:4 that it is only the GT martyrs who are raised then. So Paul does not say 'all' will be raised and to believe as you do; makes a Bible anomaly. Another impossibility.

    Your false beliefs would have immortals mingling with mortals during the Millennium. A third impossibility, as Isaiah 65:20 says those of His people can die then. Only after the Millennium and the GWT Judgment, does Eternity come and therefore immortality for those found worthy.

    Also re the 'second death'. This can happen to those raised. Lazarus is the prime example, he died again, but the second death has no power over his soul, as his name is in the Book of Life.

  2. #227
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,845
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    You are so locked into your beliefs that any thing different to what you hold to, is just not even considered.
    Incorrect. I consider it and then delve into the DETAILS, and the implications of those details, which you are unwilling to do. It is not I who is unwilling to consider.

    ! Corinthians 15 is NOT all about the Return. From verse 24 to 56 is all about after the Millennium, when Jesus hands the Kingdom back to the Father. Read that passage carefully and see how any idea any of it is before the end, as verse 24 EXPLICITLY states; is impossible.
    I didn't say it is ALL about the return. After all verse 24 speaks about AFTER the Millennium.
    Verse 26 speaks about the destruction of death itself, which means for EVERYONE, and therefore speaks of the time of the GWToJ.
    However verse 27 goes back to the time when things are put "in subjection" which therefore speaks about the Millennium period.
    From verse 35 speaks about the resurrection of the dead, which leads Paul to declare that those who have the seed of Christ are raised in His image. This then OCCURS, as Paul has ALREADY stated in this passage AT His RETURN. There is NO EQUIVOCATION or alternative to this understanding.

    In verse 23 Paul states: Christ the firstfruits, then at His Return, those who belong to Christ.
    Then we see in Revelation 20:4 that it is only the GT martyrs who are raised then. So Paul does not say 'all' will be raised and to believe as you do; makes a Bible anomaly. Another impossibility.
    At His RETURN is those who belong in Christ THEREFORE it is AT HIS RETURN when we are resurrected and given immortality.
    It is therefore you bringing in a passage EXTERNAL to what Paul says to try to claim it is NOT about His RETURN, when in CONTEXT it is 100% AT His RETURN when this happens.

    Further Rev 20:4 does NOT say ONLY the GT martyrs are raised. You are ADDING words to scripture, specifically the word ONLY!
    In Rev 20:4 there is a SPECIAL promise for those who go through the GT that they will CERTAINLY be raised and live and reign with Christ.

    Your false beliefs would have immortals mingling with mortals during the Millennium. A third impossibility, as Isaiah 65:20 says those of His people can die then. Only after the Millennium and the GWT Judgment, does Eternity come and therefore immortality for those found worthy.
    Was Jesus raised immortal? Then it is certainly possible for mortals and immortals to be on earth together. In Genesis 17 and 18 did Abraham meet with the immortal God?
    Was not the Lord's feet washed and did He not eat with a mortal?
    So there is NO impossibility.
    As for Isaiah 65:20, who is it who dies? Is it speaking of those who are in Christ or those who are still alive who are mortal? Do you not believe there will be mortals alive DURING the Millennium? I certainly do. You see the sinner is NOT one who is IN Christ, so we see this speaks of the mortals who are living at this time.

    Also re the 'second death'. This can happen to those raised. Lazarus is the prime example, he died again, but the second death has no power over his soul, as his name is in the Book of Life.
    Lazarus was NOT raised to eternal life. Jesus was the first (and so far ONLY one) to be resurrected to eternal life, so Lazarus isn't a particular good example.

  3. #228
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Revelation 20:4-5 puts it very plainly: The martyrs of the Great Tribulation will be brought back to life and all the rest of the dead must wait until the GWT Judgment.

    With your belief that all Christians are raised at Jesus' Return and are given immortality, this necessitates a Judgment of individuals. Where is this in the Bible?
    Will we live in the Millennium along with millions of immortal people; including the OT saints as well?
    What do all of them do at the GWT? Sit it out, or maybe clean the apartments in the New Jerusalem?

    No FHG, you ideas of immortality before Judgment and the Book of life is opened, is pretentious rubbish and conflicts with all the prophesies about the Return and the Millennium.

  4. #229
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,845
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Revelation 20:4-5 puts it very plainly: The martyrs of the Great Tribulation will be brought back to life and all the rest of the dead must wait until the GWT Judgment.
    The problem with your view is that you separate out the martyrs from everyone else IN Christ.
    Rev clarifies this for you:
    Rev 20:6* Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

    Who will be priests and reign with Christ for a thousand years. This is NOT restricted to the martyrs of the GT.
    You INSERT a restriction where there isn't one.

    Rev 6:9* When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.*
    Rev 6:10* They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”*
    Rev 6:11* Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.*

    Note this refers to those who are martyred BEFORE the GT. Yet TOGETHER they are raised. I have underlined above for you that they are considered one group.

    With your belief that all Christians are raised at Jesus' Return and are given immortality, this necessitates a Judgment of individuals. Where is this in the Bible?
    Will we live in the Millennium along with millions of immortal people; including the OT saints as well?
    What do all of them do at the GWT? Sit it out, or maybe clean the apartments in the New Jerusalem?
    Actually no my view does NOT necessitate a judgement of individuals.
    You see EVERYONE who is IN Christ has been sealed by the Holy Spirit. The only thing REQUIRED therefore for resurrection in the FIRST Resurrection (and this would be TRUE for the martyrs as well, rendering your point moot), is that they are SEALED by the Holy Spirit.
    This is stated in various scriptures. The seal is NOT the fulfillment, but it is the means by which the fulfillment is completed.
    There will be millions of immortals, but no OT saints as there resurrection is for judgement as they are NOT IN Christ. I have noted this in another thread, and no one has provided any scriptural support for OT saints being raised UNTIL the GWToJ.
    We will all have a place in the NJ, just as Jesus promised.
    Further we are told elsewhere in scripture that we will reign with Christ:
    2Ti 2:11* The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;*
    2Ti 2:12* if we endure, we will also reign with him;

    No FHG, you ideas of immortality before Judgment and the Book of life is opened, is pretentious rubbish and conflicts with all the prophesies about the Return and the Millennium.
    If you wish to state that God's plan is pretentious, well I can't help you there.
    As our work will be the SAME work God gave to Adam, to look after this world and more, to see it restored then there will be plenty to do.
    There is ZERO conflict with a SINGLE prophecy about the Return or the Millennium.
    In contrast your view has Christians NOT being resurrected AT His RETURN contrary to 1 Cor 15. Your view is contrary to the statement that we do NOT face judgement for eternal life in John 5:24.

  5. #230
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The problem with your view is that you separate out the martyrs from everyone else IN Christ.

    In contrast your view has Christians NOT being resurrected AT His RETURN contrary to 1 Cor 15. Your view is contrary to the statement that we do NOT face judgement for eternal life in John 5:24.
    Revelation 20:4 does that separation. It could not be plainer and although those Tribulation martyrs are part of the all the souls kept under the heavenly Altar, ONLY them will be raised when Jesus Returns.

    All the Christian dead are not raised when Jesus Returns. 1 Corinthians 15:24-8 and 35-56 is paralleled by Revelation 20:1-5 and Revelation 21:1-7.
    You simply fail to read scripture for what it really says. Plainly there will be Death during the Millennium; of righteous people, Isaiah 65:20 and of the wicked; Revelation 20:9
    John 5:24 confirms that the Christian believer, has the Promise of Eternal life and when our names are found in the Book of Life, at the GWT; we will receive it.
    John 5:25-29 goes on to say how the dead will hear His voice and will come out of the grave, those righteous to Eternal life and those wrongdoers, to Judgment. When is the Judgment? The ONLY time we are told this will happen, is after the Millennium. Revelation 20:12-13 Any idea that this could happen before then, is just speculation and error.

    I note that support for your belief, as well as mine is lacking here. Those who usually have much to say are un-naturally quiet on this issue. Why?

  6. #231
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,845
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Revelation 20:4 does that separation. It could not be plainer and although those Tribulation martyrs are part of the all the souls kept under the heavenly Altar, ONLY them will be raised when Jesus Returns.

    All the Christian dead are not raised when Jesus Returns. 1 Corinthians 15:24-8 and 35-56 is paralleled by Revelation 20:1-5 and Revelation 21:1-7.
    You simply fail to read scripture for what it really says. Plainly there will be Death during the Millennium; of righteous people, Isaiah 65:20 and of the wicked; Revelation 20:9
    John 5:24 confirms that the Christian believer, has the Promise of Eternal life and when our names are found in the Book of Life, at the GWT; we will receive it.
    John 5:25-29 goes on to say how the dead will hear His voice and will come out of the grave, those righteous to Eternal life and those wrongdoers, to Judgment. When is the Judgment? The ONLY time we are told this will happen, is after the Millennium. Revelation 20:12-13 Any idea that this could happen before then, is just speculation and error.

    I note that support for your belief, as well as mine is lacking here. Those who usually have much to say are un-naturally quiet on this issue. Why?
    Of course there will be death DURING the Millennium. However those who are immortal will not die, ONLY those who are mortal.
    As ALL the Christian dead are raised when Jesus returns as ! Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 BOTH state, so your argument fails.
    Rev 20:1 - 6 does NOT contradict 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15, it simply focuses on those who have been through the GT, who are need of encouragement and support.
    There is no death of those who were raised to eternal life.

    Your error is to think that the just means the same as those in Christ. We who are in Christ are NOT the just, we are the justified.
    You also confuse the judgement of the just and unjust - which is EVERYONE who does NOT KNOW Christ, with the judgement OF THOSE who are IN Christ.
    The purpose of the GWToJ is to determine IF someone should receive eternal life, but the judgement Christians face is for rewards (or lack of them).

  7. #232
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    As ALL the Christian dead are raised when Jesus returns as ! Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15 BOTH state, so your argument fails.
    The ALL is an addition to scripture and a lie of the first magnitude. You will have to answer for it.

    It is obvious to all except those who have believed false theories, that Eternal life only comes in Eternity; AFTER the Millennium.

  8. #233
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,845
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The ALL is an addition to scripture and a lie of the first magnitude. You will have to answer for it.
    It is obvious to all except those who have believed false theories, that Eternal life only comes in Eternity; AFTER the Millennium.
    Really? The ALL is an addition? I agree the word "all" is not used. However it isn't needed to be used:
    1Th 4:14* For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.*
    1Th 4:15* For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.*
    1Th 4:16* For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.*
    1Th 4:17* Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.*

    Paul clearly states "the dead in Christ", so who among "the dead in Christ" are NOT included? I did not say that EVERYBODY is resurrected. I stated ALL who are IN Christ.
    Now apart from "the dead IN Christ" we have those "who are alive" IN Christ. This again does NOT leave ANYONE out who is IN Christ.
    The dead IN Christ AND the alive IN Christ are ALL raptured to meet Christ in the clouds.
    This is UNEQUIVOCALLY clear.

    1Co 15:22* For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.*

    Here Paul DOES state that ALL shall be made alive, but Paul states this in regards to those who are IN Christ. It is not a blanket all of EVERYBODY, but a SPECIFIC statement about those who are IN Christ. I am ONLY separating out AS Paul has separated out. The separation is those IN Christ and those who are NOT. Paul speaks on about those who are IN Christ.
    Rev 20 does EXACTLY the same, for those who take part in the first resurrection are stated as living and reigning with Christ as priests of God. Therefore this does NOT refer to EVERYBODY, but ONLY those who are IN Christ.
    Rev 20:6* Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.*
    All scripture points to the SAME thing.

  9. #234
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    I tried researching the subject of when Eternal Life is received.
    Most just say that we Christians get it when we become Christian, but when questioned further, pastors and people who keep the faith, are just not sure when we finally become immortal.

    Obviously you, FHG, have the very fixed idea that it will happen when Jesus Returns. I totally disagree, as there has to be a final Judgment before God takes any humans to live with Him forever. This will be the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium.

    So you continue to dream on and the truth will dawn on you and the millions of Christians who have fanciful notions of living in heaven; when things really start to happen on earth, with the great world changer of the Sixth Seal event. As several prophesies say: it will only be after the great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, that peoples eyes will be opened and their ears unstopped.

  10. #235
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,845
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I tried researching the subject of when Eternal Life is received.
    Most just say that we Christians get it when we become Christian, but when questioned further, pastors and people who keep the faith, are just not sure when we finally become immortal.

    Obviously you, FHG, have the very fixed idea that it will happen when Jesus Returns. I totally disagree, as there has to be a final Judgment before God takes any humans to live with Him forever. This will be the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium.
    Sorry, but IF you ware waiting for JUDGEMENT then you are NOT living in HOPE.
    The seal for the promise is given us NOW, which is why many say that is when Eternal Life is received, however Paul doesn't claim it as being at that moment, but rather Paul and Peter, have the FULFILLMENT of the promise AT the time when Jesus returns.
    You have an error BECAUSE you do NOT separate out what happens with those who are IN Christ, with those who are NOT.
    It is ONLY those who are IN Christ who do NOT face the judgement for eternal life as Jesus is recorded as saying in John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

    Now "the rest of the dead" are indeed to face the judgement for eternal life, and the verses which speak about that are clear that this occurs AFTER the MK, which is at the GWToJ.

    Our faith is that we have hope NOW and do not face that judgement for Christ has already been sentenced on our behalf, and we die with Him and so will live with Him.
    This promise is sure, it is not a wishy-washy hope, but a certainty based on Himself and His promise.

  11. #236
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post

    Now "the rest of the dead" are indeed to face the judgement for eternal life, and the verses which speak about that are clear that this occurs AFTER the MK, which is at the GWToJ.

    Our faith is that we have hope NOW and do not face that judgement for Christ has already been sentenced on our behalf, and we die with Him and so will live with Him.
    This promise is sure, it is not a wishy-washy hope, but a certainty based on Himself and His promise.
    The people Judged at the GWT are every person that has ever been born. Revelation 20:12-13 makes that clear. Even Daniel 12:13, will stand before God then.

    We Christians do have the hope of the Promise of Eternal life. We will receive it when the Book of life is opened, not before.
    Peter and Paul DO NOT say all the dead in Christ will rise at Jesus' Return. You fail to explain how or why every Christian could rise then. Our names may have been Written in the Book of Life at our conversion, but many scriptures say a name can be erased because of sin or backsliding. We have all seen it happen.
    Therefore; there must be a judgment and the ONLY time we see that for individuals, is at the GWT, AFTER the Millennium.

    1 Peter 4:12 also says there will be a time of testing for everyone. A fiery Day that will test everyone for their faith in God. Not happened yet.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 12
    Last Post: Apr 7th 2017, 04:28 AM
  2. 7 year tribulation
    By rom826 in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 102
    Last Post: Jun 3rd 2015, 08:31 AM
  3. Question About the 7-Year Tribulation Period (moved from BC)
    By mom_of_four in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Mar 4th 2011, 05:38 PM
  4. 7 Year Period Verses
    By Whitey in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Jul 29th 2009, 06:00 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •