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Thread: Seven year tribulation period

  1. #91
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The flaw in your post #85, is that the Jewish people are not all of Israel.
    In fact, the historical record indicates that most of them have no claim to descent from Judah and Benjamin. Let alone any of the other 10 tribes.

    I have to bring up the 'rapture to heaven' theory, as it is foundational to the discussion of who is Israel today. You must have the visible entity who call themselves Israel around, so they will be here for the Great Tribulation, while the Church sits in heaven. Neither idea is Biblical.

    God does know who are His own people, the absolute basis for that is faith and trust in Him. But Amos 9:8-9 makes it clear that the majority of them will be actual, traceable descendants of Jacob, in order for God's promises to the Patriarchs to be fulfilled. Some won't be, as Isaiah 56:1-8 tells us.
    OK. We'll leave it at that. But while we stalk around each other waiting for the next round, here is something to consider. Your objection is based on Romans 9:6, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" Consider the grammar;
    "which are OF Israel". This can only mean that they were born to Jacob. He is renamed "Israel" and his seed after Him are named Israel. Over and over, whether good or bad, lawless or law-abiding, this posterity of Jacob is called "Israel". So which are "THEY OF ISRAEL" but who are NOT Israel? You cannot show them because if you are "OF Israel" you must be Israel! If you create a new nation FROM Jacob you create an absurdity. They are "OF Israel" but NOT Israel! How? In Genesis 1:11-12 God set forth an immutable Law. Each with seed within itself would produce the same. Jacob's seed via four women constitutes Israel. Which part is OF Israel but NOT Israel? Methinks you will have to reconsider that verse in light of its context lest you dwell in absurdity.

    The next verse proves my point. To Abraham and his seed are the Promises made. But Abraham is "father of nations (plural)". He has Ishmael from Hagar - firstborn, but who does not inherit. He has Isaac from Sarah - not firstborn but heir. Then he has Keturah with her sons. And then we have, in Genesis 25:6, "sons" (plural) from Abraham's "concubines" (plural) who did not inherit. So we could correctly say that OF Abraham's seed NOT all are HEIRS. But of Jacob we can say no such thing. He did not take wives outside of the four who constitute Israel. Correct would be; "ALL of Jacob are Israel". So who are those OF Israel but not Israel?

    The answer lies in the context. Romans 9:6-8 reads;

    6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."


    Who does the context say are NOT Israel? Why, THE SONS OF GOD! We have Israel, SONS OF JACOB (ISRAEL), and then, those that believed are SONS OF GOD by the REBIRTH. But these SONS by REBIRTH, ARE THEY ISRAEL? NO!!! They lose their ethnicity by the rebirth (2nd Cor.5:17). But are the OF Jacob? YES!!! VIA CHRIST (Gal.3:29). Thus, the text under consideration shows what the rest of the Bible shows; THERE IS ISRAEL, AND OF ISRAEL (Eph.2:15) God makes a New Man via Christ. Romans 9:6-8 shows TWO PEOPLES - OF JACOB - BOTH BEING ELIGIBLE FOR THE PROMISES TO ABRAHAM BUT BEING TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLES - ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH, or sons of Jacob via the flesh - Israel, OR, sons of God via the Holy Spirit via Christ Who was via Jacob.

    1. Jacob brings forth a People with the flesh - Israel. They are eligible for the Promises.
    2. One of these Israelites is Christ. Christ is eligible for the Promises. Christ causes a birth by the Holy Spirit on the basis of FAITH
    3. Those of FAITH are OF Jacob via Jesus to make them eligible for the promises, but are NOT Israel but the New Man

    And THUS is Paul's argument for the restoration of ALL Israel. Though they NOT be the New Man THEY ARE STILL ELIGIBLE FOR THE PROMISES VIA THE FLESH. Romans Chapters 9 to 11 shows
    1. ONE PATH to the Promises to Abraham, via Jacob.
    2. a SECOND path to the Promises to Abraham via Christ.

    Students of the Bible, because of the bitter battles of the Reformation, are still stuck in a groove around "salvation" by faith. But the issue, the purpose, the goal of this salvation is "WHO GETS THE EARTH PROMISED TO ABRAHAM???" (Rom.4:13). It is of course ...
    1. Israel - who get Canaan but cannot be co-kings over the nations
    2. The Church - who get the Earth and the Nations and rule over them

    BOTH are eligible for their specific Land, and Romans and Galatians show how this comes to pass - legally.

  2. #92

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    So after 7 pages, no one has answered my original question.
    If one does not use Daniel 9:27, can anyone prove with Scripture that a seven year tribulation period is a future event?

  3. #93
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK. I'm not going to press it, and we can walk away from it. But I tell you, if I was answering that question I would go to lengths to explain why ...
    1. Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
    2. Romans 10:13 says, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
    3. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

    ... and then up pops 1st Timothy 2:15, "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety", a totally different way of being saved, open only to women, and by works.

    And what is more is the deafening silence from our normally vocal posters.
    Thanks but that can't be literal think about it how would that be fair to a barren woman?

    If you also look at 1 Tim 2:15 it says that she is to "continue in faith' charity' holiness & sobriety" so she was saved before this. So my reasoning must be right as faith is proved by works.


    Below is a rule of thumb that I use to get the true meaning of scripture

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

    And what is more is the deafening silence from our normally vocal posters.
    LOL at least I'm being vocal

  4. #94
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    So after 7 pages, no one has answered my original question.
    If one does not use Daniel 9:27, can anyone prove with Scripture that a seven year tribulation period is a future event?
    Did you see my post #5?

  5. #95

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Did you see my post #5?
    Yes I did. You said there is no Scripture.
    What I am asking is for anyone who does believe in a seven year tribulation period to give me Scripture to prove their belief.

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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    Yes I did. You said there is no Scripture.
    What I am asking is for anyone who does believe in a seven year tribulation period to give me Scripture to prove their belief.
    I don't think that you will get it because there isn't any including Daniel 9:27 LOL

  7. #97

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I don't think that you will get it because there isn't any including Daniel 9:27 LOL
    Surely if one believes in a seven year tribulation period, and many if not most do, it should be based on Scripture that they can present, not on just what they have been taught.

  8. #98
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    Smile Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    Yes I did. You said there is no Scripture.
    What I am asking is for anyone who does believe in a seven year tribulation period to give me Scripture to prove their belief.
    Dayle
    Wait Exekiel 39 mentions a seven year period.

    Oh wait....also....If you add 3.5 years and 3.5 years together, Revelation has a seven year period.

    (except Revelation has FIVE 3.5 year periods, with no instruction to add any of them together...so is it 3.5 concurrent 5 times, or 3.5 and 3.5 minus 3.5 and 3.5 plus 3.5, or is it a total of 17.5, or some other decoded secret answer?

    that gives you possibly 2 more verses besides Daniel 9:27 that at least possibly mention a seven year period that could be interpretted to be the 7 year tribulation at the end of time.

    Also didn't Jospeph store grain for seven years? Isn't that 7 years? Isn't that symbolic of the pretrib rapture 7 years? Just like the jewish wedding is the 7 year rapture, and the john being called up hither is start of the 7 year rapture; and the timing of the seals, trumpets, and bowls...they are all 7 years, right? it clearly tells you that, if you only rightly divide???

    Also I had a preacher.... and there was this other guy who wrote a book, ...and alot of folks over in this group .... all of them believe and teach a 7 year tribuation period at the end of time (well not really the end of time, more like 1,007 years before the end of time)....

    but they all really teaching this 7 year tribulation period that I should also believe; why would they be incorrect or should I not listen to them?

    Hey, I don't want to be left behind.

    I am a member of the church...white and spoteless...God wouldn't want to bruise and tarnish His bride, so there must be a 7 year marriage in heaven after the pretrib rapture...we aren't appointed to wrath, only the lowly trib-saints are.

    Does that help any at all, finding the 7 year trib period?


  9. #99
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK. We'll leave it at that. But while we stalk around each other waiting for the next round, here is something to consider. Your objection is based on Romans 9:6, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" Consider the grammar;
    "which are OF Israel". This can only mean that they were born to Jacob. He is renamed "Israel" and his seed after Him are named Israel. Over and over, whether good or bad, lawless or law-abiding, this posterity of Jacob is called "Israel". So which are "THEY OF ISRAEL" but who are NOT Israel? You cannot show them because if you are "OF Israel" you must be Israel! If you create a new nation FROM Jacob you create an absurdity. They are "OF Israel" but NOT Israel! How? In Genesis 1:11-12 God set forth an immutable Law. Each with seed within itself would produce the same. Jacob's seed via four women constitutes Israel. Which part is OF Israel but NOT Israel? Methinks you will have to reconsider that verse in light of its context lest you dwell in absurdity.
    But you didn't 'leave it at that'.
    Your interpretation of Romans 9:6, makes a completely wrong conclusion.
    What that verse tells us is that some who are actual Israelites are now deemed to be no longer of Israel, because of their rejection of Jesus. This is confirmed by Jesus in Matthew 8:12 and Romans 2:29
    The children of Jacob via the flesh are only accepted into the true Israel of God by faith in God. That the majority of them WILL be actual descendants of Jacob is my belief, because that is how God will fulfil His promises to the Patriarchs. But only a very small minority of them will consist of those who claim the name of Israel today.
    The majority are people who have lost their Israelite identity, as God intended, but who have accepted the Gospel in faith.
    Praise God, the sending of His Son to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel has been successful and we Christians are the grateful recipients of His salvation. WE are the Israelites of God by faith AND most of us, by descent as well.

    Dayle: there is no 7 year Tribulation.
    It seems that during the final 3 1/2 years of this age, before Jesus Returns, there will be the 7 Trumpet and the 7 Bowl Judgements against the ungodly peoples. Half of the Christians will be taken to a place of safety for those 1260 days, the remainder must stay in the holy Land. Revelation 12:14-17

  10. #100
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    Surely if one believes in a seven year tribulation period, and many if not most do, it should be based on Scripture that they can present, not on just what they have been taught.
    Of course but nobody can give you one because there isn’t one

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Dayle
    Wait Exekiel 39 mentions a seven year period.

    Oh wait....also....If you add 3.5 years and 3.5 years together, Revelation has a seven year period.

    (except Revelation has FIVE 3.5 year periods, with no instruction to add any of them together...so is it 3.5 concurrent 5 times, or 3.5 and 3.5 minus 3.5 and 3.5 plus 3.5, or is it a total of 17.5, or some other decoded secret answer?

    that gives you possibly 2 more verses besides Daniel 9:27 that at least possibly mention a seven year period that could be interpretted to be the 7 year tribulation at the end of time.

    Also didn't Jospeph store grain for seven years? Isn't that 7 years? Isn't that symbolic of the pretrib rapture 7 years? Just like the jewish wedding is the 7 year rapture, and the john being called up hither is start of the 7 year rapture; and the timing of the seals, trumpets, and bowls...they are all 7 years, right? it clearly tells you that, if you only rightly divide???

    Also I had a preacher.... and there was this other guy who wrote a book, ...and alot of folks over in this group .... all of them believe and teach a 7 year tribuation period at the end of time (well not really the end of time, more like 1,007 years before the end of time)....

    but they all really teaching this 7 year tribulation period that I should also believe; why would they be incorrect or should I not listen to them?

    Hey, I don't want to be left behind.

    I am a member of the church...white and spoteless...God wouldn't want to bruise and tarnish His bride, so there must be a 7 year marriage in heaven after the pretrib rapture...we aren't appointed to wrath, only the lowly trib-saints are.

    Does that help any at all, finding the 7 year trib period?

    Nice one LOL ..........

  11. #101
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    So after 7 pages, no one has answered my original question.
    If one does not use Daniel 9:27, can anyone prove with Scripture that a seven year tribulation period is a future event?
    No they can’t. They can only prove a 3.5 year event, and even then it should not be taken from chapter 9. A future 3.5 period is taught in chapter 7. Chapter 9 is done and dusted.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  12. #102
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    Yes I did. You said there is no Scripture.
    What I am asking is for anyone who does believe in a seven year tribulation period to give me Scripture to prove their belief.
    There is no scripture which speaks of a 7 year tribulation.
    What you do have is a 7 year period, and then you have two lots of approximately 3 and a half years, which follow each other. These are the 6th and 7th trumpet.

    Personally I don't believe in a 7 year Great Tribulation, and this is partly why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    Yes I did. You said there is no Scripture.
    What I am asking is for anyone who does believe in a seven year tribulation period to give me Scripture to prove their belief.
    There is no scripture which speaks of a 7 year tribulation.
    What you do have is a 7 year period, and then you have two lots of approximately 3 and a half years, which follow each other. These are the 6th and 7th trumpet.

    Personally I don't believe in a 7 year Great Tribulation, and this is partly why.

  13. #103
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Thanks but that can't be literal think about it how would that be fair to a barren woman?

    If you also look at 1 Tim 2:15 it says that she is to "continue in faith' charity' holiness & sobriety" so she was saved before this. So my reasoning must be right as faith is proved by works.


    Below is a rule of thumb that I use to get the true meaning of scripture

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture



    LOL at least I'm being vocal
    Thanks for your reply. I have read it and noted it.

  14. #104
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    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    But you didn't 'leave it at that'.
    Your interpretation of Romans 9:6, makes a completely wrong conclusion.
    What that verse tells us is that some who are actual Israelites are now deemed to be no longer of Israel, because of their rejection of Jesus. This is confirmed by Jesus in Matthew 8:12 and Romans 2:29
    The children of Jacob via the flesh are only accepted into the true Israel of God by faith in God. That the majority of them WILL be actual descendants of Jacob is my belief, because that is how God will fulfil His promises to the Patriarchs. But only a very small minority of them will consist of those who claim the name of Israel today.
    The majority are people who have lost their Israelite identity, as God intended, but who have accepted the Gospel in faith.
    Praise God, the sending of His Son to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel has been successful and we Christians are the grateful recipients of His salvation. WE are the Israelites of God by faith AND most of us, by descent as well.

    Dayle: there is no 7 year Tribulation.
    It seems that during the final 3 1/2 years of this age, before Jesus Returns, there will be the 7 Trumpet and the 7 Bowl Judgements against the ungodly peoples. Half of the Christians will be taken to a place of safety for those 1260 days, the remainder must stay in the holy Land. Revelation 12:14-17
    Thank you for your reply.

  15. #105

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    So after 7 pages, no one has answered my original question.
    If one does not use Daniel 9:27, can anyone prove with Scripture that a seven year tribulation period is a future event?
    By two particular events that occur back to back, we are able to determine a 7 year period in end times that will take place immediately prior to the coming of the Lord in his glory.

    One event is mentioned in verses 3-6 below. The ministry of the two witnesses, and the duration is a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years).

    Rev 11
    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.


    The second event is that of the beast and the man of sin (son of perdition). which killed the two witnesses. When the man of sin is revealed, this marks the event that occurs just prior to the coming of the Lord. And his allowed time to do his work is 42 months (3-1/2 years).

    Rev 11:7
    And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


    We can read in (2 Thess 2) that the man of sin will be consumed by the brightness of the Lord at his coming.

    2 Thessalonians 2
    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


    These 2 events combined are approximately 7 years. Whether there will be any overlapping in these events is hard to say. I cannot determine that from scriptures.

    And to say all of these 7 years will be great tribulation. Again, I am not certain of that either. But by the time the man of sin is actually revealed, I would image things are already starting to turn down hill pretty fast. But know for sure when he is revealed, times will be extremely bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayle View Post
    So after 7 pages, no one has answered my original question.
    If one does not use Daniel 9:27, can anyone prove with Scripture that a seven year tribulation period is a future event?
    By two particular events that occur back to back, we are able to determine a 7 year period in end times that will take place immediately prior to the coming of the Lord in his glory.

    One event is mentioned in verses 3-6 below. The ministry of the two witnesses, and the duration is a thousand two hundred and threescore days (3-1/2 years).

    Rev 11
    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.


    The second event is that of the beast and the man of sin (son of perdition). which killed the two witnesses. When the man of sin is revealed, this marks the event that occurs just prior to the coming of the Lord. And his allowed time to do his work is 42 months (3-1/2 years).

    Rev 11:7
    And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


    We can read in (2 Thess 2) that the man of sin will be consumed by the brightness of the Lord at his coming.

    2 Thessalonians 2
    1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,


    These 2 events combined are approximately 7 years. Whether there will be any overlapping in these events is hard to say. I cannot determine that from scriptures.

    And to say all of these 7 years will be great tribulation. Again, I am not certain of that either. But by the time the man of sin is actually revealed, I would image things are already starting to turn down hill pretty fast. But know for sure when he is revealed, times will be extremely bad.

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