Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789
Results 121 to 128 of 128

Thread: Seven year tribulation period

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,747
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Your two 'proof' verses fail totally to prove a 'rapture to heaven' of the church. They say no such thing.
    Incorrect - 1 Thess 4 EXPLICITLY states a rapture to heaven. I do wonder when you will get what is STATED in the Greek, and then get with dealing with the real question of this thread instead of going on a side-track.
    The rapture to heaven in 1 Thess 4 is to the sky.

    Proof of a theory is; that what is postulated exists or is true. It is stupidity to say I must prove that something doesn't exist, or is false.
    I have done that anyway. I quoted the five verses where Jesus says such a thing as people going to live in heaven, is impossible.
    Irrelevant.
    Try to deal with actual point.

    I am not Post Mill, if that means I think people go to heaven at the Return of Jesus, we who remain are just transported to where Jesus is; coming to earth for His Millennium reign.
    Our hope is the appearance of Jesus, Titus 2:14, NOT a resurrection at that time.
    The world is renewed after the GWT, not before. Revelation 21:1-7
    Seven out of seven wrong, FHG, you must really do better or you will be in the dark about what God has planned for His people.
    I a
    Well, your previous post means you believe PostMil as Post Mil has Jesus coming at the END of the Millennium, and that is when all are raised in resurrection.

    In order to have that Hope fulfilled it REQUIRES a resurrection of those who died IN Christ, which is what 1 Thess 4 states WILL HAPPEN.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    203

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    It is ALREADY proven in 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15.
    The actual ONUS is on you to prove that there CANNOT be a resurrection of Christians UNTIL the GWToJ.


    I hadn't realised you followed PostMil ideas so closely.
    I haven't speculatively added anything.
    Scripture states that we are raised when He returns.
    This is our blessed hope.
    The world as it is ENDS when Jesus returns. His return is world changing.

    The subject that Paul is addressing in chapter 4 continues on in Chapter 5. Who writes regarding the times and the seasons, but says the Lord will come as a thief in the night. Then goes on to speak about the sudden destruction that will come upon the rest, "as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."


    1 Thessalonians 5
    1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.



    When the bible was written, there were no chapters or verses. This is all one subject regarding the coming of Jesus. The resurrection of the saints and the destruction of the wicked both occur in one event and at the same time. And not separated by 1000 years.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,700

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    When the bible was written, there were no chapters or verses. This is all one subject regarding the coming of Jesus. The resurrection of the saints and the destruction of the wicked both occur in one event and at the same time. And not separated by 1000 years.
    Amen to that.
    Paul makes that clear....,

    This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Incorrect - 1 Thess 4 EXPLICITLY states a rapture to heaven. I do wonder when you will get what is STATED in the Greek, and then get with dealing with the real question of this thread instead of going on a side-track.
    The rapture to heaven in 1 Thess 4 is to the sky.
    Classic 'shot in the foot'! I commented a while ago how you have a propensity for foot problems.
    1 Thess 4:17 says that the Lord will gather His people to Him, reiterated in Matthew 24:30-31. Thru the clouds, the atmosphere then ON EARTH to rule and reign with Him for the Millennium. Revelation 5:9-10

    There is no 'rapture to heaven' of the church. Nothing in the Bible says there will be such a thing, It is an entirely made up theory and will never happen.

    I believe that Jesus will Return when He told us He will; immediately after the time of distress; the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:29-30
    Those who died in Christ that will be brought back to life at His Return, are indisputably ONLY the Trib martyrs. Revelation 20:4
    The rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:5
    Additions to Revelation as you like to do is a very bad idea.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,747
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Classic 'shot in the foot'! I commented a while ago how you have a propensity for foot problems.
    1 Thess 4:17 says that the Lord will gather His people to Him, reiterated in Matthew 24:30-31. Thru the clouds, the atmosphere then ON EARTH to rule and reign with Him for the Millennium. Revelation 5:9-10
    I believe that Jesus will Return when He told us He will; immediately after the time of distress; the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:29-30
    Those who died in Christ that will be brought back to life at His Return, are indisputably ONLY the Trib martyrs. Revelation 20:4
    The rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:5
    Additions to Revelation as you like to do is a very bad idea.
    We agree then that Jesus will return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the GT.
    However your ERROR is in claiming ONLY those who are martyred will be raised.
    You are correct to note that Rev 20:4 speaks of those martyred being raised, but it is NOT an EXCLUSIVE statement.
    You see 1 Thess 4 states UNEQUIVOCALLY when those who have died IN Christ, and those who are ALIVE IN Christ will be raised and MEET Him. You even NOTE in your quote about 1 Thess 4 WHEN this happens.
    So the classic "shot in the foot" is ENTIRELY your own.

    Let me quote and UNDERLINE for you!
    1 Thess 4:13 - 17
    But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

    We who are ALIVE do NOT precede those who have died. This is a BLANKET statement about EVERYONE who has fallen asleep IN Christ. It is NOT limited to martyrs!

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    We agree then that Jesus will return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the GT.
    However your ERROR is in claiming ONLY those who are martyred will be raised.
    You are correct to note that Rev 20:4 speaks of those martyred being raised, but it is NOT an EXCLUSIVE statement.
    You see 1 Thess 4 states UNEQUIVOCALLY when those who have died IN Christ, and those who are ALIVE IN Christ will be raised and MEET Him. You even NOTE in your quote about 1 Thess 4 WHEN this happens.
    So the classic "shot in the foot" is ENTIRELY your own.

    We who are ALIVE do NOT precede those who have died. This is a BLANKET statement about EVERYONE who has fallen asleep IN Christ. It is NOT limited to martyrs!
    ...and the dead in Christ will rise first......I see no 'all' , or 'everyone' there.
    Do you really think 'all' the dead in Christ will rise at Jesus' Return? Every Christian since the disciples until those who die just prior to that glorious Day?
    Or maybe just the millions of martyrs since Stephen? Be more specific, please.

    I see Revelation 20:4 as being absolutely specific as to who will rise at the Return. This fits perfectly with Paul's prophecy, just adds some detail.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,747
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    ...and the dead in Christ will rise first......I see no 'all' , or 'everyone' there.
    "the dead IN Christ" means ALL who are dead IN Christ. It is NOT limited, but a COMPLETE whole. CONTEXT tells you this.

    Do you really think 'all' the dead in Christ will rise at Jesus' Return? Every Christian since the disciples until those who die just prior to that glorious Day?
    Or maybe just the millions of martyrs since Stephen? Be more specific, please.
    I see Revelation 20:4 as being absolutely specific as to who will rise at the Return. This fits perfectly with Paul's prophecy, just adds some detail.
    Who was a Christian who died BEFORE Stephen? The ONLY one we know of for sure is the bandit who died on the cross with Jesus. Now there may have been one or two others that scripture does NOT mention, but that is speculation.
    Abraham or Daniel or John the Baptist were NOT IN Christ, so they are not going to be resurrected.
    However EVERY Christian, since the disciples, who is indeed IN Christ will be raised, as that is what Paul teaches for those he wrote to in 1 Thessalonians. So Paul was meaning people who had ALREADY died BEFORE Paul wrote the letter, who had accepted Jesus and died BEFORE Jesus returned - note this is the CONTEXT.
    As Jesus has yet to return, so this remains true until He does.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,747
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Seven year tribulation period

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I see Revelation 20:4 as being absolutely specific as to who will rise at the Return. This fits perfectly with Paul's prophecy, just adds some detail.
    This is indeed SPECIFIC. However it is NOT stated as a LIMITING specification.
    It is saying these people will CERTAINLY be raised. They are mentioned because they will face the Beast and will live through (and die in) the Great Tribulation - which is just before Jesus returns.
    Paul then has those from the 1st century and John has those from the last century, and in fact all in between who are IN Christ will be raised.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 12
    Last Post: Apr 7th 2017, 04:28 AM
  2. 7 year tribulation
    By rom826 in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 102
    Last Post: Jun 3rd 2015, 08:31 AM
  3. Question About the 7-Year Tribulation Period (moved from BC)
    By mom_of_four in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Mar 4th 2011, 05:38 PM
  4. 7 Year Period Verses
    By Whitey in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Jul 29th 2009, 06:00 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •