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Thread: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

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    "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Most understand the "sea' in this text is a "sea" of many nations. That the beast rises up from the mass of people in the world. But this is incorrect. The sea here is literal as John is looking over the body of water and sees a beast come up from beneath the sea. Now beneath the sea there is the earth at some point. Thus the beast rises up from the earth and the sea the location he was cast into in the previous chapter 12. I would say the literal gates of Hell are located in the sea wherein John was looking.

    Cast into the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 12
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Cast up from the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;

    End time king does rise up from the bottomless pit.

    Rev 11
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Rev 17
    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

    So this last fourth kingdom is not of this world, but arises from the pit of Hell NOT from the peoples of the earth which is currently taught.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Most understand the "sea' in this text is a "sea" of many nations. That the beast rises up from the mass of people in the world. But this is incorrect. The sea here is literal as John is looking over the body of water and sees a beast come up from beneath the sea. Now beneath the sea there is the earth at some point. Thus the beast rises up from the earth and the sea the location he was cast into in the previous chapter 12. I would say the literal gates of Hell are located in the sea wherein John was looking.

    Cast into the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 12
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Cast up from the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;

    End time king does rise up from the bottomless pit.

    Rev 11
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Rev 17
    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

    So this last fourth kingdom is not of this world, but arises from the pit of Hell NOT from the peoples of the earth which is currently taught.
    I think it's possible that the Beast is both the Roman Empire and the latter day Antichrist. Therefore, Antichrist rises in the endtimes out of the ashes of the old Roman Empire, which had been defeated, spiritually, as a pagan empire. Perhaps this is the wound of the Beast?

    The "sea" I see as an undeveloped state of existence, before something appears on earth. But in the case of the Beast, the sea is like a bottomless pit, a place of endless judgment. Antichrist appears out of a judged pagan empire to reign for only a brief time on earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Most understand the "sea' in this text is a "sea" of many nations. That the beast rises up from the mass of people in the world. But this is incorrect. The sea here is literal as John is looking over the body of water and sees a beast come up from beneath the sea. Now beneath the sea there is the earth at some point. Thus the beast rises up from the earth and the sea the location he was cast into in the previous chapter 12. I would say the literal gates of Hell are located in the sea wherein John was looking.

    Cast into the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 12
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Cast up from the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;

    End time king does rise up from the bottomless pit.

    Rev 11
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Rev 17
    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

    So this last fourth kingdom is not of this world, but arises from the pit of Hell NOT from the peoples of the earth which is currently taught.
    I think it's possible that the Beast is both the Roman Empire and the latter day Antichrist. Therefore, Antichrist rises in the endtimes out of the ashes of the old Roman Empire, which had been defeated, spiritually, as a pagan empire. Perhaps this is the wound of the Beast?

    The "sea" I see as an undeveloped state of existence, before something appears on earth. But in the case of the Beast, the sea is like a bottomless pit, a place of endless judgment. Antichrist appears out of a judged pagan empire to reign for only a brief time on earth.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Most understand the "sea' in this text is a "sea" of many nations. That the beast rises up from the mass of people in the world. But this is incorrect. The sea here is literal as John is looking over the body of water and sees a beast come up from beneath the sea. Now beneath the sea there is the earth at some point. Thus the beast rises up from the earth and the sea the location he was cast into in the previous chapter 12. I would say the literal gates of Hell are located in the sea wherein John was looking.

    Cast into the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 12
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Cast up from the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;

    End time king does rise up from the bottomless pit.

    Rev 11
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Rev 17
    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

    So this last fourth kingdom is not of this world, but arises from the pit of Hell NOT from the peoples of the earth which is currently taught.
    I will not comment on the Dragon as he is an angel. As will be seen presently in the text under discussion, scripture shows two distinct creatures - the Dragon and the Beast.

    Here is Revelation 13:1-5;

    1 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."


    The question at hand is whether the sea is a "sign" or literal. We have tow proofs that it is a "sign" or picture;
    1. Revelation's introductory verse, 1:1, says that Christ would transmit things by "signs" in this Book. That does not mean that there are not many literal and real things, but we can expect things to be described by a sign or picture to save much writing.
    2. The context is full of signs. "Beast", "seven heads" - which later describe seven hills, "ten horns" - which later turn out to be ten kings, "his heads" - a man has only one head, etc., etc.,. The whole context is one of signs.

    It then behooves us to interpret scripture with scripture without adding human thoughts.
    • "Standing on the sand of the sea". This term is used to describe Israel (Gen.22:17). It is also used elsewhere to describe a great number (1st Sam.13:5). Thus, it can be inferred that since the Beast is intimately connected with Israel (Dan.9:26-27, 2nd Thess.2:4), the "sand of the sea" speaks of all Israel.
    • "Rise up out of the sea". The "sea" is used in prophecy to mean the Nations (Isa.9:1; Ezek.26:3; Matt.4:14; etc.). Daniel 9:26-27 shows the Beast to be a "prince" of the people who destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem in AD 70 - Romans.
    • "He". While in Daniel 7 a "Beast" can be a Nation, the vast majority of references to THE Beast refer to a single MAN.

    Lastly, in Revelation 17:8 the Beast rises out of the "Bottomless Pit". The King James translators, great language specialist as they were, also suffered from 1,000 years of Roman myth. The word "hell" does not appear in the Bible. At best, "hell" is a concept - a concept of unimaginable suffering. The Bible uses THREE different words for three different things whereas our esteemed translators used "hell".
    1. "Hades" - the place under the earth where our Lord's soul descended to for three days and nights, and every other dead man's soul goes to to wait for the resurrection
    2. "Gehenna" - which comes from the Valley of Hinnom, a valley on the south side of Jerusalem where all the city's reuse was burned. It is also the place where the Canaanites, and later Israel too, caused their living children to pass through fire to appease the fire-demon-god Molech. It is used interchangeably with "perdition" and "the Lake of Fire. It is a CONDITION of unending suffer of both living body and soul (Matt.10:28)
    3. "Tartaroo" - the place under the earth of the angels who mixed with women at Noah's time (2nd Pet.2:4). Whereas Hades is for the SOULS of men, Tartaroo is for "spirits" (because angels are spirits - Ps.104:4)

    The Beast, being a MAN, "was, and is not" - that is, he has died and languishes in HADES (Rev.17:10-11). At the time appointed and allowed by God, he will be resurrected and "was, and is not and will be the eighth".

    Thus we see the Beast, a GENTILE king, one of five of John's time, who has died by the time John wrote Revelation in 95 AD, but who will rise out of Hades (not hell) and usurp universal power for at least 7 years, only to be cast alive into the Lake of Fire - perdition. In the text above, Revelation 13:4, the Dragon gives his power to the Beast - making them two distinct persons - an angel and a resurrected man.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The question at hand is whether the sea is a "sign" or literal. We have tow proofs that it is a "sign" or picture;
    1. Revelation's introductory verse, 1:1, says that Christ would transmit things by "signs" in this Book. That does not mean that there are not many literal and real things, but we can expect things to be described by a sign or picture to save much writing.
    2. The context is full of signs. "Beast", "seven heads" - which later describe seven hills, "ten horns" - which later turn out to be ten kings, "his heads" - a man has only one head, etc., etc.,. The whole context is one of signs.

    It then behooves us to interpret scripture with scripture without adding human thoughts.
    [LIST]
    So then are all things a sign in Revelation? I think not. It is yourself making human interpretations what is and what is not.

    [*]"Standing on the sand of the sea". This term is used to describe Israel (Gen.22:17). It is also used elsewhere to describe a great number (1st Sam.13:5). Thus, it can be inferred that since the Beast is intimately connected with Israel (Dan.9:26-27, 2nd Thess.2:4), the "sand of the sea" speaks of all Israel.
    [*]"Rise up out of the sea". The "sea" is used in prophecy to mean the Nations (Isa.9:1; Ezek.26:3; Matt.4:14; etc.)
    So is he standing on top of Israel. So he was standing on Israel??????

    No. The fact is that John was on the isle of Patmos which so happened to be surrounded by sea and had a sand shore. So John in his vision literally walked down to the sea shore while standing on the sand and swa a beast rise up literally from the water. Just so happens this beast is a serpent one which is of the land and of the sea.

    The bottomless pit, Hades, is located beneath the sea under the earth. And I would surmise the exact location of it's gates is in the sea wherein the Greek islands where John was looking.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I think it's possible that the Beast is both the Roman Empire and the latter day Antichrist. Therefore, Antichrist rises in the endtimes out of the ashes of the old Roman Empire, which had been defeated, spiritually, as a pagan empire. Perhaps this is the wound of the Beast?
    Scriptures does support the latter day AC but not Rome.

    You definitely are sold on the Rome narrative. I was for a time too, but soon found the theory was in error.

    The "sea" I see as an undeveloped state of existence,
    This is human thinking not supported by scripture.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Rev 13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Does the above mean that John saw the Beast rise out of a literal body of water - the Mediterranean, Atlantic or Pacific ocean, perhaps? That will, of course, be a ludicrous rendition of the text. So what does the "sea" represent if not the physical water? Before I get to the answer, let's look for similar references in scripture.

    Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    Here we see the same language - beasts rising or coming up from the sea. We know that these "Beasts" represent Kings/Kingdoms that had at various times subjugated, oppressed and ruled over Daniel's people, Israel. Hence, the label, beast! This helps us to understand that they are humans - not spirits with magical powers that they can just materialise out of the water. So what does the sea represent? Incidentally, scripture also gave us the answer; only many don't recognise it. Let's look at the passages below:

    Dan 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near unto one of them that stood by and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made me know the interpretation of the things.

    17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.


    Viola! The sea denotes the earth or more specifically, the peoples of the earth! As I said earlier, these kings/kingdoms which are Babylon, Persia, Rome and the end-time Antichrist are all humans. The passages are simply telling us that these kings rise from among us - people of the earth. Now, despite being endued with supernatural power by the dragon/Satan, I hope no one mistakes the Antichrist as anything but a human being, born of a woman with red blood in his veins? He's not a spirit being capable of coming to life without being born of a woman.

    So when Rev 13:1 says the beast will rise from the sea, we know it means that he will be born as one of the 7 billion+ population of the earth. Albeit, his nationality and race remain a hot potato.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Most understand the "sea' in this text is a "sea" of many nations. That the beast rises up from the mass of people in the world. But this is incorrect. The sea here is literal as John is looking over the body of water and sees a beast come up from beneath the sea. Now beneath the sea there is the earth at some point. Thus the beast rises up from the earth and the sea the location he was cast into in the previous chapter 12. I would say the literal gates of Hell are located in the sea wherein John was looking.

    Cast into the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 12
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Cast up from the earth beneath the sea.

    Rev 13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;

    End time king does rise up from the bottomless pit.

    Rev 11
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    Rev 17
    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

    So this last fourth kingdom is not of this world, but arises from the pit of Hell NOT from the peoples of the earth which is currently taught.

    consider the sea


    “And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”
    **Revelation‬ *4:5‬ *KJV‬‬


    “And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.”
    **Revelation‬ *4:6‬ *

    a lot of wrath begins happening when the seals are opened....and trumpets blown....

    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”
    **Revelation‬ *13:1‬ *KJV‬‬

    “He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”
    **Revelation‬ *13:10‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
    **Revelation‬ *14:9-10, 12-13‬ *KJV‬‬


    "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:

    and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.”
    **Revelation‬ *15:2‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
    **Revelation‬ *21:1‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    **Revelation‬ *22:1‬ *KJV‬‬ compare to revelation 4 what proceeds from the throne....

    The sea is creAtion, in the beginning it appears clear as crystal, pure....

    “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good......”
    **Genesis‬ *1:31‬ *KJV‬‬

    we know man corrupted it and brought wrath,,,,then the Angel in chapter 8 casts fire from the throne into the earth, and the beast eventually rises and begins persecuting the saints who will not accept the mark of his children. You then sea wrath mixed into the sea, represented by fire. And those who did not worship the beast are standing on the sea before the throne of God.

    it was the doctrine all along that the first creation , both earth and the heavens would be destroyed by fire of the wrath upon sin and or perdition.


    “But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    ...But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    ....Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
    **2 Peter‬ *3:7, 10, 13‬ *KJV‬‬

    John is seeing a condensed spiritual view of the entire plan of salvation from when creation was very good, to when men followed the serpents word bringing wrath , and then salvation from those things. Even unto the appearance of a new heaven and earth which is the promise of Jesus Christ. All the prophets were seeing different things pertaining to this revelation. remember, he's told to write things he has already seen , things that were currently in his day , and the things which would be her after.


    when the new heavens and earth appear, the old creation the sea in which the beast arose from, represented by the changing sea of glass before the throne, Is no more but has become

    “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
    **Revelation‬ *20:10, 14-15‬ *KJV‬‬


    we know because Peter said the heavens and earth that are now, are reserved for the fire of wrath upon ungodliness ....the sea goes from pure and clean, to mingled with fire, and eventually is a lake of fire and there is no more sea in the new creation, because it's the old creation reserved for the fire of judgement.

    revelation isn't a book that we read and then try to match it to geographical locations, and specific rulers, or try to add up days and years and figure out when and how things are happening. It's a view into the heavens, things we never saw happening in the spiritual realms, and then how those things affect the earth.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Scriptures does support the latter day AC but not Rome.

    You definitely are sold on the Rome narrative. I was for a time too, but soon found the theory was in error.
    This is human thinking not supported by scripture.
    Just curious what sold you on the change from Rome to something else? I do see Rome as both an ancient and a contemporary reality. My argument is based on the fact the 4th Beast of Dan 7 leads to the Kingdom of Christ.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post


    So then are all things a sign in Revelation? I think not. It is yourself making human interpretations what is and what is not.


    Here's what I said. You misrepresent me. Quote:

    Walls:
    That does not mean that there are not many literal and real things, but we can expect things to be described by a sign or picture to save much writing.
    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So is he standing on top of Israel. So he was standing on Israel??????

    No. The fact is that John was on the isle of Patmos which so happened to be surrounded by sea and had a sand shore. So John in his vision literally walked down to the sea shore while standing on the sand and swa a beast rise up literally from the water. Just so happens this beast is a serpent one which is of the land and of the sea.
    About right. He was standing in a position of the view point of Israel because the Beast is intimately connected to Israel. And if the "sand of the sea" is literal then the Beast, which is actually a MAN, is also literal making him not a man. And besides all the other things, which you decided not to address, if the sea is literal then the Beast came out of the sea adjacent to Patmos 1,900 years ago. See the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The bottomless pit, Hades, is located beneath the sea under the earth. And I would surmise the exact location of it's gates is in the sea wherein the Greek islands where John was looking.
    Matthew 12:40 says it is in the "heart of the earth", so I guess the heart of the earth is also under the sea. But the interesting thing is that in all the cases that resurrection is described it says that "the graves where opened". Seems like land to me.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    And if the "sand of the sea" is literal then the Beast, which is actually a MAN, is also literal making him not a man.
    How does this happen?

    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;



    How does an entity come up from the bottomless pit and wage war, kill, and be a man king seen in Rev 17?

    if the sea is literal then the Beast came out of the sea adjacent to Patmos 1,900 years ago. See the problem?
    The problem is that you think it to happen 1900+ years ago. Rev 13 is in the future.

    Matthew 12:40 says it is in the "heart of the earth", so I guess the heart of the earth is also under the sea.
    That's right.

    Ever wonder why he is called a serpent?

    The gates of hell are under the earth which so happens to be under the sea as well.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Just curious what sold you on the change from Rome to something else?
    The Spirit.

    I do see Rome as both an ancient and a contemporary reality. My argument is based on the fact the 4th Beast of Dan 7 leads to the Kingdom of Christ.
    [/QUOTE]


    I also see the 4th beast of Dan 7 leads to the kingdom of Christ, but what biblical fact is there that it is Rome?

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    consider the sea


    “And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”
    **Revelation‬ *4:5‬ *KJV‬‬


    “And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.”
    **Revelation‬ *4:6‬ *

    a lot of wrath begins happening when the seals are opened....and trumpets blown....

    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”
    **Revelation‬ *13:1‬ *KJV‬‬

    “He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”
    **Revelation‬ *13:10‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

    Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
    **Revelation‬ *14:9-10, 12-13‬ *KJV‬‬


    "And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire:

    and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.”
    **Revelation‬ *15:2‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
    **Revelation‬ *21:1‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    **Revelation‬ *22:1‬ *KJV‬‬ compare to revelation 4 what proceeds from the throne....

    The sea is creAtion, in the beginning it appears clear as crystal, pure....

    “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good......”
    **Genesis‬ *1:31‬ *KJV‬‬

    we know man corrupted it and brought wrath,,,,then the Angel in chapter 8 casts fire from the throne into the earth, and the beast eventually rises and begins persecuting the saints who will not accept the mark of his children. You then sea wrath mixed into the sea, represented by fire. And those who did not worship the beast are standing on the sea before the throne of God.

    it was the doctrine all along that the first creation , both earth and the heavens would be destroyed by fire of the wrath upon sin and or perdition.


    “But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    ...But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    ....Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
    **2 Peter‬ *3:7, 10, 13‬ *KJV‬‬

    John is seeing a condensed spiritual view of the entire plan of salvation from when creation was very good, to when men followed the serpents word bringing wrath , and then salvation from those things. Even unto the appearance of a new heaven and earth which is the promise of Jesus Christ. All the prophets were seeing different things pertaining to this revelation. remember, he's told to write things he has already seen , things that were currently in his day , and the things which would be her after.


    when the new heavens and earth appear, the old creation the sea in which the beast arose from, represented by the changing sea of glass before the throne, Is no more but has become

    “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
    **Revelation‬ *20:10, 14-15‬ *KJV‬‬


    we know because Peter said the heavens and earth that are now, are reserved for the fire of wrath upon ungodliness ....the sea goes from pure and clean, to mingled with fire, and eventually is a lake of fire and there is no more sea in the new creation, because it's the old creation reserved for the fire of judgement.

    revelation isn't a book that we read and then try to match it to geographical locations, and specific rulers, or try to add up days and years and figure out when and how things are happening. It's a view into the heavens, things we never saw happening in the spiritual realms, and then how those things affect the earth.
    ...……………………………...

  13. #13
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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Rev 13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Does the above mean that John saw the Beast rise out of a literal body of water - the Mediterranean, Atlantic or Pacific ocean, perhaps? That will, of course, be a ludicrous rendition of the text.
    Yes it does mean the body of water adjacent to Patmos. Not only does it say "sea" but John is standing on the sand. Do you say John is a liar?

    The entrance of the pit does exist, right?


    Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    Here we see the same language - beasts rising or coming up from the sea. We know that these "Beasts" represent Kings/Kingdoms that had at various times subjugated, oppressed and ruled over Daniel's people,
    This is your interpretation. The kingdoms in Dan 2 are not the beasts in Dan 7. The beasts in Dan 7 are the beast in Rev 13. (note they are the first four seals). Note these beasts were not on the earth in the past. The four beast make up the 4th kingdom of Dan 2.

    This helps us to understand that they are humans - not spirits with magical powers that they can just materialise out of the water. So what does the sea represent? Incidentally, scripture also gave us the answer; only many don't recognise it. Let's look at the passages below:
    What come up from the bottomless pit that kills the 2W and is seen with the woman in Rev 17? So your logic fails as this entity was not human coming up from the pit either.

    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.[/I]
    Viola! The sea denotes the earth or more specifically, the peoples of the earth!
    "out of the earth"...….one can still be out of the earth AND from the sea. Much of our land mass is covered by water you know.

    I hope no one mistakes the Antichrist as anything but a human being, born of a woman with red blood in his veins? He's not a spirit being capable of coming to life without being born of a woman.
    Can the Spirit of the AC indwell living flesh?

    12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;


    Bata book bata boom!!!!

    So when Rev 13:1 says the beast will rise from the sea, we know it means that he will be born as one of the 7 billion+ population of the earth. Albeit, his nationality and race remain a hot potato.
    You been mislead, we have all been mislead. Sea is the literal sea in Rev 13. John is literally standing on the sand of the shore.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The Spirit.

    I also see the 4th beast of Dan 7 leads to the kingdom of Christ, but what biblical fact is there that it is Rome?
    1) Dan 2 mentions 4 kingdoms, and Dan 7 mentions 4 kingdoms, and they both seem to begin with Babylon and end with Rome.
    2) Daniel places a lot of emphasis on the Greek Kingdom, out of which comes to the diabolical Antiochus 4. And he is stifled by Rome.
    3) Dan 9 and the 70 Weeks ends with the death of Christ, followed by the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
    4) Rome appears to be the "city that reigns over the earth" in Rev 17, seducing the earth with its paganism.

    Dan 7 indicates that 4th Beast ultimately divides into 10 entities, 3 of which fall. Rev also identifies the 10 entities and 7 (reduced by 3) entities in the endtimes under Satan and the Antichrist. The Beast Kingdom is presented as being led by 2 leaders, the Antichrist and the False Prophet. The city called "Babylon" is destroyed by the Antichrist. This appears to be the city of Rome.

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    Re: "Sea' Rev 13 is the location whereby the beast rises. He rises from UNDER the sea

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Yes it does mean the body of water adjacent to Patmos. Not only does it say "sea" but John is standing on the sand. Do you say John is a liar?

    You been mislead, we have all been mislead. Sea is the literal sea in Rev 13. John is literally standing on the sand of the shore.
    Revelation 13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    The Beast from the Sea
    13 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.

    John is in the Spirit the whole time somewhere on Patmos.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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