Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
[INDENT]I previously believed the doctrine of a future gathering of Israel to their homeland. However, I have recently been confronted with thoughts that have forced me to question that general belief. Among the various scriptures cited by those who hold out to a future gathering of Israel include, but not limited to Deut 30:3-4, Jeremiah 30, Ezekiel 37:20-28, etc.
"And Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on the head of Ephraim, and it was evil in his eyes. And he held up his father's hand to remove it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. And Joseph said to his father, Not so, my father. For this is the first-born. Put your right hand on his head.

And his father refused and said, I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he is, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations. " (Genesis 48:17-19)

It's m'lo goyi in the Hebrew ("fullness of Gentiles") which is quite correctly translated as multitude of nations.

The Northern tribes were collectively called "Ephraim". The seed of the handful that escaped to Judah when Assyria invaded and scattered Israel became amalgamated with Judah over time; and the seed of the majority that were scattered became amalgamated with a multitude of nations over time.

It is both the house of Israel and the house of Judah which are joined into one stick:

"And you, son of man, take a stick and write on it, For Judah and for his companions, the sons of Israel. And take another stick and write on it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and all the house of Israel, his companions. And join them to one another into one stick. And they shall become one in your hand."
(Ezekiel 37:16-17)

Joseph is the father of Ephraim, and a Biblical type of Jesus. Ephraim's seed would become "a multitude of nations or "fullness of Gentiles.

Ehpraim (the Northern tribes) were told:

"And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you. Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God. (Hosea 1:9-10)

Now where do you read Paul quoting those verses which in their context refer to "Ephraim" or the Northern tribes, and applying the promise to the Gentiles?

" As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved." And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God." (Romans 9:25-26)

How can Paul rip these verses out of their context and apply them to a multitude of nations, the fullness of the Gentiles (or whatever you want to call Gentile believers in Christ who are grafted into the olive tree called Israel among its remnant)?

So we read about the regathering,

"Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land. For great shall be the day of Jezreel." (Hosea 1:9-11)

They are gathered together (the Hebrew states "assembled together") in Christ, the antitype of Joseph, who is the type of Jesus, because in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile:


"There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28)

"For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very deceitfully against Me, says the LORD." (Jeremiah 5:11)

" For as you (Gentiles or the house of Israel?) also then disbelieved God, but now have been shown mercy through their (Jews or the house of Judah?) disbelief, even so these also have not believed now, so that through your mercy they may also obtain mercy. For God has shut up all in unbelief, so that He might show mercy to all." (Romans 11:30-32)

"For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has come in." (Romans 11:25 ).

"And He shall lift up a banner for the nations, and shall gather the outcasts of Israel and gather together the scattered ones of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

"And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." (Matthew 24:31).

I do not believe that the state of Israel, the country today called Israel, is [God "regathering Israel" - many Christians have deluded themselves that it is a fulfillment of these prophecies - but how did modern-day Israel come about? Through God defeating Christ's enemies and gathering a nation of believers in Jesus from boththe house of Israel and the house of Judah back into the land of their fathers to be governed by Christ in His Messianic millennial kingdom?

Or was it secular and powerful Jews who though secular, nevertheless absolutely deny Christ (see the apostle John's definition of antichrist) and His name, and who, with an understandable desire to have a homeland for the Jews, started the Zionist movement, worked towards it, received a letter of intent from Lord Balfour in 1917, and then a United Nations (evil human Babylon type organization) resolution to establish a homeland for the Jews (after partitioning Palestine between Jew and Arab, of which most of Judah/Judea falls inside the West Bank and Jerusalem in terms of the resolution was to be governed by the U.N and belong to no single nation)?

So all they got was conflict - and they have been sneakily retaking Juda/Judea little by little through illegal (in terms of U.N law) settlements in the West Bank.

Did God organize for Joseph's brothers to betray him and sell him, at the instigation of Judah to the Egyptians for 20 pieces of silver? Or did God, knowing what they were going to do, allow them to do what they did against His will, and turn man's ways around to bring about His own purpose of saving Jacob and his family from famine? Did God, knowing that Judas was going to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver allow it to happen in order to turn the betrayal of Christ around to bring about His salvation of the whole world?

Is this "Israel" of 1948 God regathering the tribes into the land of their fathers? Or is this God knowing beforehand what man was going to do, and allowing man to do what he will do, and yet turning it around to bring His own purposes and plans to fruition?

Let each man answer this question regarding Israel himself - but it seems to me every single "Christian Zionist" is under a very strong delusion regarding what it all means that Jews have been granted by the nations the right to push themselves back into the land amidst much conflict and against the will of the Arabs who have been living in the region for many centuries.