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Thread: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

  1. #61
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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    You should at least spell my daughter's name {TRIVALEE} which I use on this Board correctly. It is not Trivalle.
    Thank you and God bless.
    I do apologize if, I spelled it wrong *Trivalee*, you're welcome and God Bless you also

  2. #62
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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Since we are congruous about the unification of 'living Israel and Judah', I'd like you and anyone else objective enough to consider the following. If the purported 10 tribes were still "lost" and not united with those of Judah at the time of Christ, then in all good conscience, no one can blame them (Israel's 10 tribes) for rejecting Christ! This, of course, means that the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians and the few other minorities during the 1st advent whom Jesus flayed and admonished for rejecting him were ALL devoid of those from ISRAEL!
    Couldn't really follow this whole statement, maybe you can define in your view who the Sarmatians are, and it would clear up a lot of stuff. By the word of the Women at the well John 4:4–26 The Samaritans and the *Jews* did not mix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Yet, I doubt if anyone believes Paul was in error when he made the under copied statement?

    1 Thess 2:14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind 16 by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them at last! (70 AD)!
    Where the Samaritans also exiled from the Land in 70AD? Did they crucify Jesus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. The blame for the death of the prophets falls on both Israel and Judah.
    Judah is a tribe of Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    2. Is there anyone who will read v-15 and conclude that Paul was referring to Judah alone even though he called them "Jews"?
    The term "Jew" does not refer to the tribe of Judah exclusively
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    3. Let's face the truth if Israel is indeed not yet unified with Judah, then they can't be responsible for Paul's accusations above, can they?
    I guess not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    4. This also brings us to the crunch question regarding Romans 11. Since Israel was not united with Judah at the time of Christ and didn't receive Jesus Christ' message of salvation: could they be accused of rejecting him and consequently "broken off/cast away" from the tree/root which is Christ as posited by Paul?
    Now you seem to be talking about the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah? How can they have been reunited when the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed, I know you believe if 1 or two people from any tribe joined the Kingdom of Judah this would have fulfilled passages that speak of a reunification. But seriously who constituted the Kingdom of Israel in this reunification? Who are the Samaritans, do you personally believe they have no Israeli ancestry.

    Also, have you ever heard of the Talmud?

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Couldn't really follow this whole statement, maybe you can define in your view who the Sarmatians are, and it would clear up a lot of stuff. By the word of the Women at the well John 4:4–26 The Samaritans and the *Jews* did not mix. Where the Samaritans also exiled from the Land in 70AD? Did they crucify Jesus?
    First, we must understand why the Samaritans were not accepted as Jews nor mixed with them. Let's find out from scripture.

    2 Kings 17:20 And the Lord rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.
    2 Kings 17:23 Until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

    2 Kings 17:24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.

    From v-24 we note that the people of Samaria are not wholly ethnic Israel, but a mix-up of Gentiles. So why did the woman at the well claim ancestry from Jacob in her exchange with Jesus (John 4:11-12)? We find the answer from the book of kings.

    2 Kings 17:25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the Lord: therefore the Lord sent lions among them, which slew some of them.

    26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.

    27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.

    28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the Lord.

    From verses 27-28 we see that an Israeli priest was brought back from exile to teach the Gentiles and no doubt a few remaining ethnic Israel about the Sovereign God of Israel. No doubt, the history of Israel, their lineage and God, taught by this priest would have been preserved and passed on from generation to generation. Thus convincing the generation at the time of Christ to believe they were truly descended from Jacob. As already mentioned, it is not inconceivable that some Samaritans were actually true blood Israel. However, having intermarried with non-Israel in contradiction to God's command, they were no longer considered pure and true Israel.

    Another question for you to ponder is if the Samaritans were truly the 10 tribes of Israel, why then do people claim they are *lost* given they are now called Samaritans, living in their ancestral land, Samaria? So in conclusion, the Samaritans were IMHO not Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Now you seem to be talking about the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah? How can they have been reunited when the Kingdom of Israel was destroyed, I know you believe if 1 or two people from any tribe joined the Kingdom of Judah this would have fulfilled passages that speak of a reunification. But seriously who constituted the Kingdom of Israel in this reunification? Who are the Samaritans, do you personally believe they have no Israeli ancestry.

    Also, have you ever heard of the Talmud?
    1. When you say Israel was destroyed, are you referring to the 'people' or their land?
    2. I have explained who the Samaritans were and used scripture to show how their Israeli ancestry came about.
    3. Again, I agree that some of them might have had Israeli blood, but they have ultimately been polluted in contradiction to God's injunction in Deut 7:3

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I always enjoy your posts even when I disagree with them as unfortunately is mostly the case here. Your in-depth insight is commendable; right or wrong it shows you actually study the scriptures. Something worth emulating from those whose constant response is no more than one-liners...
    Thank you for your kind words. Go well and God bless.

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    First, we must understand why the Samaritans were not accepted as Jews nor mixed with them. Let's find out from scripture.


    2 Kings 17:20 And the Lord rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.
    2 Kings 17:23 Until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.


    2 Kings 17:24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.


    From v-24 we note that the people of Samaria are not wholly ethnic Israel, but a mix-up of Gentiles. So why did the woman at the well claim ancestry from Jacob in her exchange with Jesus (John 4:11-12)? We find the answer from the book of kings.


    2 Kings 17:25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the Lord: therefore the Lord sent lions among them, which slew some of them.


    26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.


    27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.


    28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the Lord.


    From verses 27-28 we see that an Israeli priest was brought back from exile to teach the Gentiles and no doubt a few remaining ethnic Israel about the Sovereign God of Israel. No doubt, the history of Israel, their lineage and God, taught by this priest would have been preserved and passed on from generation to generation. Thus convincing the generation at the time of Christ to believe they were truly descended from Jacob. As already mentioned, it is not inconceivable that some Samaritans were actually true blood Israel. However, having intermarried with non-Israel in contradiction to God's command, they were no longer considered pure and true Israel.
    Correct so the Kingdom of Israel was taken into captivity and in their place was imported, a mixed race of people we called the Samarians, who were mixed blood, and though they claim ancestry from Jacob as you say they are not considered ethnic Jews (Those from the Southern Kingdom of Judah) so the Jews (The southern Kingdom members) did not mix with this mixed-race group of people . So in Light of our statements above, if even the Sarmatians (the closest thing we got to the scatted northern kingdom) were rejected by the Jews, for the reasons you mentioned, Who represented the Kingdom of Israel during the reunification you believe happened after the return from Babylon?


    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Another question for you to ponder is if the Samaritans were truly the 10 tribes of Israel, why then do people claim they are *lost* given they are now called Samaritans, living in their ancestral land, Samaria?
    Once more, you started this OP claiming that you used to Hold the position I'm now defending so you personally should be able to answer this question yourself. However, for others, I will just point out that even the passage you brought forth in kings clearly states 2 Kings 17:22 b-23 until he had cast them out of his sight. Until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    So in conclusion, the Samaritans were IMHO not Israel.
    So once more in the reunification, you believed happened after the return from Babylon Between the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah who represented the Kingdom of Israel? We know it wasn't the Samaritans, and they were at least a Mixed race with Hebrew ancestry but they were outright rejected by the Jews.






    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. When you say Israel was destroyed, are you referring to the 'people' or their land?
    I'm Referring to the Kingdom of Israel in contrast to the Kingdom of Judah.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    2. I have explained who the Samaritans were and used scripture to show how their Israeli ancestry came about.
    Yes, I believe you did an excellent job brother.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    3. Again, I agree that some of them might have had Israeli blood, but they have ultimately been polluted in contradiction to God's injunction in Deut 7:3
    This is once more correct, but my question here is to me when the exiles returned they reconstituted the Kingdom of Judah, not the Kingdom of Israel, hence why they got the Term "Jews". NOTE: The English term Jew originates in the Biblical Hebrew word Yehudi, meaning "from the Kingdom of Judah", or "Jew".


    This is my point here, you're trying to make the term Jew refer to the Whole house of Israel reunited as it was under the time of King David and Solomon, but my main objection is who represented the Kingdom of Israel for this Reunification, it is clear that the Jews mainly represent the Southern Kingdom of Judah. Thought experiment, after King Solomon who was the Next King to rule over the United House of David(1 King over all 12 Tribes)? Just Like Saul, David and Solomon?


    As brother Keraz says often when the Jews returned to the land of Canaan in modern times they originally were gonna name the nation "Judah" but instead opted for the name "Israel" which leads to a Host of Confusion!. Also why i Mentioned the TALMUD something you should look into because this is what modern day "Judaism" hold to an even higher standard to our modern day OT, See Oral Law vs Written Law for more Info. Notice that the Oral law wasn't codified and written down until AFTER the Jews where kicked out of Jerusalem after 70 AD.

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    And you know that for sure?

    In Luke 2:36 we see the prophetess Anna from the tribe of Asser living in Jerusalem with her family. The consequential inference is, how many others from the supposed lost 10 tribes were living in plain sight with their brethren from Judah from the time of the 1st advent till today?

    I see the purported future unification of living Israel as merely a fantasy as God who cannot lie has already done it. Yet in our poor understanding of the fulfilment of scripture, we hold out hope in an illusion. I often wonder how many times God shakes his head and smiles at our ignorance and folly?
    You seem to have set the bar really low when understanding the prophecy notice what Ezekiel 37:21 says for example. This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 24 ‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees.

    They will Become a United KINGDOM With a King Over them, that's the prophesy, your claim is that The Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel was reunited under some biblical King in the OT that once more ruled over both Kingdoms, like Saul, David, and Solomon. So my question is who was it? What was his claim to the throne of Israel(The northern Kingdom)? Look how low your bar is "how many others from the supposed lost 10 tribes were living in plain sight with their brethren from Judah from the time of the 1st advent till today?" That in no way is the reunification of a Kingdom or a Throne.

  7. #67

    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Why do you think Judah and Benjamin are mentioned specifically in this passage?

    The question by Jesuslovesus stands.

    Ezra 4:1 Now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the children of the captivity builded the temple unto the LORD God of Israel;

    Why do you think Judah and Benjamin are mentioned specifically in this passage?

    The question by Jesuslovesus stands.

    Ezra 4:1 Now when the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the children of the captivity builded the temple unto the LORD God of Israel;

  8. #68

    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel. The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD. So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son. And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel. And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel. And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Hosea 1:1-9

    And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. Jer 2:8

    Question

    Could, you are not my people and I will not be your God, she who had been given a bill of divorce, remotely return to God before some form of reconciliation? Would that reconciliation require death and life again from the dead?

    Who's?

  9. #69

    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Another thought.

    Was the old covenant a covenant of marriage? Will the new covenant also be a covenant of marriage?

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Correct so the Kingdom of Israel was taken into captivity and in their place was imported, a mixed race of people we called the Samarians, who were mixed blood, and though they claim ancestry from Jacob as you say they are not considered ethnic Jews (Those from the Southern Kingdom of Judah) so the Jews (The southern Kingdom members) did not mix with this mixed-race group of people . So in Light of our statements above, if even the Sarmatians (the closest thing we got to the scatted northern kingdom) were rejected by the Jews, for the reasons you mentioned, Who represented the Kingdom of Israel during the reunification you believe happened after the return from Babylon?
    Most of the exiled people from the northern kingdom of Israel returned with their brethren from the south, Judah. I don't believe it was a one-off exodus like when they left Egypt. It was more in phases. It is impossible to prove that the teeming population of Israel since the end of the captivities were only made up of Judah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Once more, you started this OP claiming that you used to Hold the position I'm now defending so you personally should be able to answer this question yourself. However, for others, I will just point out that even the passage you brought forth in kings clearly states 2 Kings 17:22 b-23 until he had cast them out of his sight. Until the Lord removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.
    I'm not sure of what you are arguing here? If you are building a case on the basis of the statement that "Israel is carried away to Assyria unto this day" then you have to prove that all the millions who identify themselves as Jews today are all from the southern kingdom of Judah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    I'm Referring to the Kingdom of Israel in contrast to the Kingdom of Judah.
    Indeed, the land of Israel was destroyed. But we know that only a few of the ancient boundaries remain. A quick Wikipedia search places Samaria today as "adjacent or within the modern Palestinian village of Sebastia". It is also commonly known today as the West Bank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    This is once more correct, but my question here is to me when the exiles returned they reconstituted the Kingdom of Judah, not the Kingdom of Israel, hence why they got the Term "Jews". NOTE: The English term Jew originates in the Biblical Hebrew word Yehudi, meaning "from the Kingdom of Judah", or "Jew".

    This is my point here, you're trying to make the term Jew refer to the Whole house of Israel reunited as it was under the time of King David and Solomon, but my main objection is who represented the Kingdom of Israel for this Reunification, it is clear that the Jews mainly represent the Southern Kingdom of Judah. Thought experiment, after King Solomon who was the Next King to rule over the United House of David(1 King over all 12 Tribes)? Just Like Saul, David and Solomon?

    As brother Keraz says often when the Jews returned to the land of Canaan in modern times they originally were gonna name the nation "Judah" but instead opted for the name "Israel" which leads to a Host of Confusion!. Also why i Mentioned the TALMUD something you should look into because this is what modern day "Judaism" hold to an even higher standard to our modern day OT, See Oral Law vs Written Law for more Info. Notice that the Oral law wasn't codified and written down until AFTER the Jews where kicked out of Jerusalem after 70 AD.
    A brief study of ancient Israel's history shows that the division (northern and southern kingdoms) that existed prior to the captivity ended when the exiles returned. I don't know how to address your question about "who represented the kingdom of Israel" because, after the return of exile, the primary objective for Israel and Judah was to rebuild not only their shattered lives but their land as well. There was no requirement for those from Israel to stand out from those of Judah. They needed each other and shared the same dream of rising up from the ashes.

    I purposely left out your question regarding the Talmud because I haven't read up on it.

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Most of the exiled people from the northern kingdom of Israel returned with their brethren from the south, Judah. I don't believe it was a one-off exodus like when they left Egypt. It was more in phases. It is impossible to prove that the teeming population of Israel since the end of the captivities were only made up of Judah.
    Honestly, you're just making assertions with no biblical or historical proof to back it up. I really wish you would take this matter seriously and put more time into your research before making these claims.

    Essentially what you're claiming is that the southern kingdom of Judah was taken into captivity by Babylon and 70 years later they and all the people who were taken captive by the Assyrians returned at the same time which is false. You read the passage yourself from Kings, when they returned to the land there was a NEW group of people called Samarians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I'm not sure of what you are arguing here? If you are building a case on the basis of the statement that "Israel is carried away to Assyria unto this day" then you have to prove that all the millions who identify themselves as Jews today are all from the southern kingdom of Judah.
    I don't have to prove this at all if you care to search for the information the Jews provide extensive records of their lineage. I already showed you what the term Jew means in opposition to those who where members of the house of Israel. My only point is that in no time in the past where the 2 Kingdoms reunited under 1 King.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Indeed, the land of Israel was destroyed. But we know that only a few of the ancient boundaries remain. A quick Wikipedia search places Samaria today as "adjacent or within the modern Palestinian village of Sebastia". It is also commonly known today as the West Bank.
    Once more i'm not talking about the "Land of Israel" i'm talking about the *Kingdom of Israel*.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    A brief study of ancient Israel's history shows that the division (northern and southern kingdoms) that existed prior to the captivity ended when the exiles returned. I don't know how to address your question about "who represented the kingdom of Israel" because, after the return of exile, the primary objective for Israel and Judah was to rebuild not only their shattered lives but their land as well. There was no requirement for those from Israel to stand out from those of Judah. They needed each other and shared the same dream of rising up from the ashes.
    Once more the bible provides a very clear and detailed list of the Kings of Judah and the Kings of Israel. The Prophesy claims that the Kingdoms Will be reunited, I honestly don't have time to teach this stuff, i'm just gonna link some very basic reading you can do on the topic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Judah. Also we know from the history that after the Babylonian captivity The Kingdom of Judah also ended instead being reduced to a Province. NOTE what is said about the Last King of Judah His reign saw the second rebellion against Nebuchadnezzar (588–586 BC). Jerusalem was captured after a lengthy siege, the temple burnt, Zedekiah blinded and taken into exile, and Judah reduced to a province.

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    You seem to have set the bar really low when understanding the prophecy notice what Ezekiel 37:21 says for example. This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 24 ‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees.

    They will Become a United KINGDOM With a King Over them, that's the prophesy, your claim is that The Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel was reunited under some biblical King in the OT that once more ruled over both Kingdoms, like Saul, David, and Solomon. So my question is who was it? What was his claim to the throne of Israel(The northern Kingdom)? Look how low your bar is "how many others from the supposed lost 10 tribes were living in plain sight with their brethren from Judah from the time of the 1st advent till today?" That in no way is the reunification of a Kingdom or a Throne.
    Consider this, in the ancient world (when Ezekiel lived) a nation/kingdom is invariably ruled by a king. So when Ezekiel says that God will unite them (Israel+Judah) to make them one nation under one king - the question is, how will this materialise in the modern era with kings and kingdoms a thing of the past? I will start from the time of the rebuilt Jewish state (Judea) at the time of Antiochus 4, the Hasmonean kings and up to the time of Christ. They were ONE NATION just as Ezekiel prophesied, albeit divided into Pharisees, Sadducees and Herodians in accordance with their interpretation of the law.

    During the 1900 years of exile following 70 AD, once again we see them identify themselves by different sects e.g. Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, etc. Today, they remain united under the modern state of Israel with one "king" - the Prime Minister! I hope you are hoping for David to rise up from the dead to rule over them again?

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Another thought. Was the old covenant a covenant of marriage? Will the new covenant also be a covenant of marriage?
    Neither the Old nor the New Covenant is a covenant of marriage. Rather, both contained a set of agreements; one part to be fulfilled by man and the other by God.

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Neither the Old nor the New Covenant is a covenant of marriage. Rather, both contained a set of agreements; one part to be fulfilled by man and the other by God.
    Why would you say that? God threatened a certificate of divorce to Israel and accused her of adultery. Both suggest marriage or at least betrothal. And in the NT, we are called the bride of Christ. Again, suggesting marriage, or at least betrothal.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: The touted future gathering of Israel: truth or myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Consider this, in the ancient world (when Ezekiel lived) a nation/kingdom is invariably ruled by a king. So when Ezekiel says that God will unite them (Israel+Judah) to make them one nation under one king - the question is, how will this materialise in the modern era with kings and kingdoms a thing of the past? I will start from the time of the rebuilt Jewish state (Judea) at the time of Antiochus 4, the Hasmonean kings and up to the time of Christ. They were ONE NATION just as Ezekiel prophesied, albeit divided into Pharisees, Sadducees and Herodians in accordance with their interpretation of the law.
    They weren't a nation at all after their return from captivity they became a province.

    How this will materialize in the Modern world is Simple Jesus Christ will return from heaven and establish a kingdom on earth with ruler-ship from Jerusalem. <----- (Does this sound crazy or impossible to you?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    During the 1900 years of exile following 70 AD, once again we see them identify themselves by different sects e.g. Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardi Jews, etc. Today, they remain united under the modern state of Israel with one "king" - the Prime Minister!
    Oh the Prime minister is a King now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I hope you are hoping for David to rise up from the dead to rule over them again?
    I believe that Jesus will rule over them again, and yes I believe my Savior rose from the dead and now lives. Hope you believe the same. Once more check the charts, the last king over the United Kingdom of Israel was Solomon the Next will be Jesus, there is no-else between them if you believe there is or was quote the name so people here can research him.

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