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Thread: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

  1. #16
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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    John spoke of a singular and particular antichrist who was to yet come:

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specific one certain Antichrist (singular) that was yet to come. This is known as "the Antichrist".


    Paul spoke of this same singular evil person using different names:

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    John writes of this same singular antichrist person calling him different names/terms in the book of Revelation, the false prophet and the (second) beast.

    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    What name or term used to describe this singular evil person is irrelevant because many names are used whether Antichrist, false prophet, (second) beast, man of sin, that Wicked, the son of perdition, the little horn, abomination of desolation and so on. It's all speaking of the same individual who will reign the world during the great tribulation and claim to be God.

    The concept of a future singular "antichrist" person is biblical. Who this person is has been debated very much, but denying that there is a future singular antichrist denies what scripture tells us.

    Was John speaking of an antichrist to come in HIS DAY, or ours 2,000 years in the future?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    John spoke of a singular and particular antichrist who was to yet come:

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    He says "now" there were many antichrists but does specific one certain Antichrist (singular) that was yet to come. This is known as "the Antichrist".


    Paul spoke of this same singular evil person using different names:

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    John writes of this same singular antichrist person calling him different names/terms in the book of Revelation, the false prophet and the (second) beast.

    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    What name or term used to describe this singular evil person is irrelevant because many names are used whether Antichrist, false prophet, (second) beast, man of sin, that Wicked, the son of perdition, the little horn, abomination of desolation and so on. It's all speaking of the same individual who will reign the world during the great tribulation and claim to be God.

    The concept of a future singular "antichrist" person is biblical. Who this person is has been debated very much, but denying that there is a future singular antichrist denies what scripture tells us.

    Was John speaking of an antichrist to come in HIS DAY, or ours 2,000 years in the future?
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  2. #17
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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Was John speaking of an antichrist to come in HIS DAY, or ours 2,000 years in the future?
    All he makes clear is many AC's existed in his day but a singular one was yet to come so that could be near future or far future. The AC hasn't come yet so it's still future even now. Hopefully he comes soon.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  3. #18

    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Was John speaking of an antichrist to come in HIS DAY, or ours 2,000 years in the future?

    There will be and have been many anti-Christs. Many will come claiming to be Christ. Jesus taught us this in Matthew 24:5 ("For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many").

    But the one who John was not speaking of (which is to come) will be one with great power. He will do great miracles and come with great deception. We don't know how many years in the future it will be, but we do know it is relatively close to the end of time. We know this by what Jesus and Apostle Paul both taught.

    Teachings of Jesus:
    Matthew 24:
    3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
    13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    14) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Teachings of Apostle Paul
    2 Thessalonians 2
    1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

  4. #19
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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Subriemannian View Post
    For the first 19 centuries the prevailing wisdom used to be that Jews are antichrist are both bad and, in many ways, they are tied together as Jews await for their Messiah, which was commonly identified as antichrist. But then, after the holocaust, an interesting twist took place: Jews are regarded as God's chosen people, while antichrist continues to be viewed as bad. Since nobody could have anticipated such a dramatic positive shift in the opinion regarding the Jews, could it be that a century later we would have another big shift that nobody anticipates of as of now: the dramatic shift in the opinion regarding the antichrist. Just like today Jews are regarded as good guys and its antisemitic to say bad things about them, maybe a century later antichrist will be regarded as a good guy and it would be antisemitic to say bad thing about him. And yes I used the word "antisemitic" rather than "xenophobic" for a reason. Since antichrist is a Jewish messiah, maybe a century later they will say "the reason people used to view antichrist as a bad thing is because he is tied to Jews and they are antisemites; but now that we have condemned antisemitism, its time to revise our views regarding other Jewish things, including antichrist". And yes, they would say it while identifying themselves as Christians. Remember: "anti" doesn't mean "against", it means "in place of". So if people were to embrace the possibility of having more than one Christ, then sure they can have both Jesus and antichrist at the same time. Just like today Christians that otherwise reject ecumenism accept the possibility of having Judaism and Christianity at the same time -- in the form of Messianic Judaism -- so maybe one of the future forms of Messianic Judaism would be worshipping Jesus and antichrist at the same time. Like Messianic Jews of today don't FULLY combine Judaism with Christianity, yes they take MOST of Judaism, but they throw away one important thing -- Messiah -- since they have Jesus as Messiah. Well, the idea that "Jesus is incompatible with another Messiah" that is prevalent today is analogous to the idea that "Jesus is incompatible with keeping Jewish law" that was prevalent a century ago. So if people were able to get over the latter (in Messianic congretations) maybe a century later they will get over the former. Thus, Messianic congretations in their worship would borrow the Messiah that Orthodox would be following (to be fully and completely Jewish) while retain their belief in Jesus, thus they would follow two Messiahs at the same time. Sure, it sounds like a huge piece of fiction. But if you were to tell someone in 19-th century about Messianic synagogues today they would say its a fiction too. So we know that with progress what seems to be fiction at one point will become reality a century later. So yeah, maybe a century later they would seriously embrace Jesus and antichrist at the same time, however silly it might sound, and claim that people thorughout history who rejected antichrist were just antisemitic.
    All of this is true, and already people do believe in Jesus and the Antichrist (the AC is us, he's Paul's "old man" which he says we must put off - the man of sin)

    Keep in mind that there is a great deal of personification in the Bible, and the antichrist is not a dude. In fact, the antichrist boogeyman that people are so jazzed about is a guy who, ironically does exactly what Jesus Christ says he'll do when he returns.

    Bankrupt everything
    Abolish fake currency (divers weights and measures)
    Enforce peace (repent or die - eternally)
    Insist on living in Jerusalem in a Temple
    Wipe out genetic impurities (nephilim bloodlines)
    Have the cure to disease (and aging)
    destroy all other gods, including all arcane knowledge and material things he deems detestable stumbling blocks.
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

  5. #20
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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
    All of this is true, and already people do believe in Jesus and the Antichrist (the AC is us, he's Paul's "old man" which he says we must put off - the man of sin)

    Keep in mind that there is a great deal of personification in the Bible, and the antichrist is not a dude. In fact, the antichrist boogeyman that people are so jazzed about is a guy who, ironically does exactly what Jesus Christ says he'll do when he returns.

    Bankrupt everything
    Abolish fake currency (divers weights and measures)
    Enforce peace (repent or die - eternally)
    Insist on living in Jerusalem in a Temple
    Wipe out genetic impurities (nephilim bloodlines)
    Have the cure to disease (and aging)
    destroy all other gods, including all arcane knowledge and material things he deems detestable stumbling blocks.
    This is why the Apostasy is so "successful". People can't tell the difference between the false Christ and the true Christ.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  6. #21
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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    All he makes clear is many AC's existed in his day but a singular one was yet to come so that could be near future or far future. The AC hasn't come yet so it's still future even now. Hopefully he comes soon.
    Well I think, with everything taken into account, [i.e. the big picture - the end of the Old Covenant/sacrificial system and the birth of the new, [ it is finished ] as well as the fast approaching 70AD apocalypse, ] it makes far for sense to see/think that what he was talking about already happened in his day. Occam’s Razor comes to mind. Most likely NERO held this title.

    I see no reason, rational or evidence to think that what he was referring to should be placed in 2019 or beyond.

    Your position assumes dispensationalism is true. Many of us would disagree.

    The Bible was written for all of us, but not just us living in the moment, it was written in a time for them, about them in many aspects, it’s not all prophecy. We can’t yank things into 2019 when they actually belong in AD60.

    Hope that made sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    All he makes clear is many AC's existed in his day but a singular one was yet to come so that could be near future or far future. The AC hasn't come yet so it's still future even now. Hopefully he comes soon.
    Well I think, with everything taken into account, [i.e. the big picture - the end of the Old Covenant/sacrificial system and the birth of the new, [ it is finished ] as well as the fast approaching 70AD apocalypse, ] it makes far for sense to see/think that what he was talking about already happened in his day. Occams Razor comes to mind. Most likely NERO held this title.

    I see no reason, rational or evidence to think that what he was referring to should be placed in 2019 or beyond.

    Your position assumes dispensationalism is true. Many of us would disagree.

    The Bible was written for all of us, but not just us living in the moment, it was written in a time for them, about them in many aspects, its not all prophecy. We cant yank things into 2019 when they actually belong in AD60.

    Hope that made sense.
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  7. #22
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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    Well I think, with everything taken into account, [i.e. the big picture - the end of the Old Covenant/sacrificial system and the birth of the new, [ it is finished ] as well as the fast approaching 70AD apocalypse, ] it makes far for sense to see/think that what he was talking about already happened in his day. Occam’s Razor comes to mind. Most likely NERO held this title.

    I see no reason, rational or evidence to think that what he was referring to should be placed in 2019 or beyond.

    Your position assumes dispensationalism is true. Many of us would disagree.

    The Bible was written for all of us, but not just us living in the moment, it was written in a time for them, about them in many aspects, it’s not all prophecy. We can’t yank things into 2019 when they actually belong in AD60.

    Hope that made sense.



    Well I think, with everything taken into account, [i.e. the big picture - the end of the Old Covenant/sacrificial system and the birth of the new, [ it is finished ] as well as the fast approaching 70AD apocalypse, ] it makes far for sense to see/think that what he was talking about already happened in his day. Occam’s Razor comes to mind. Most likely NERO held this title.

    I see no reason, rational or evidence to think that what he was referring to should be placed in 2019 or beyond.

    Your position assumes dispensationalism is true. Many of us would disagree.

    The Bible was written for all of us, but not just us living in the moment, it was written in a time for them, about them in many aspects, it’s not all prophecy. We can’t yank things into 2019 when they actually belong in AD60.

    We also can't take prophecies that have never been fulfilled and toss them in the Ad's and ignore them either. Since no one, not even Christ knew when his return or the end of the world was to be, the language used was always future but "soon"...soon being very flexible on God's timeline and not very soon from a human perspective.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #23
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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    [QUOTE=ewq1938;3503150]We also can't take prophecies that have never been fulfilled and toss them in the Ad's and ignore them either.[QUOTE]

    I agree. Question is tho, what is yet to come? There’s where we differ. Rightly dividing the Word is our quarry.

    Since no one, not even Christ knew when his return or the end of the world was to be, the language used was always future but "soon"...soon being very flexible on God's timeline and not very soon from a human perspective.
    Totally agree. We all agree it’s “soon”, but how soon? What makes more sense? Given what happened in 70AD, and at the Cross, “soon” could very well be within their life time, and in fact, much evidence supports this hypothesis. It’s an old view to, if not the oldest. I would argue the Apostles felt this way.

    [QUOTE=ewq1938;3503150]We also can't take prophecies that have never been fulfilled and toss them in the Ad's and ignore them either.[QUOTE]

    I agree. Question is tho, what is yet to come? Theres where we differ. Rightly dividing the Word is our quarry.

    Since no one, not even Christ knew when his return or the end of the world was to be, the language used was always future but "soon"...soon being very flexible on God's timeline and not very soon from a human perspective.
    Totally agree. We all agree its soon, but how soon? What makes more sense? Given what happened in 70AD, and at the Cross, soon could very well be within their life time, and in fact, much evidence supports this hypothesis. Its an old view to, if not the oldest. I would argue the Apostles felt this way.
    A cannot be A & not A at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky22 View Post
    I agree. Question is tho, what is yet to come? There’s where we differ. Rightly dividing the Word is our quarry.
    Well, none of the Olivet discourse has happened since Christ said everything including the second coming and angels gathering the elect would be seen by one generation of people...no one has seen those things yet so it's future. The AC and GT and death and resurrection of the two prophets haven't happened...no miracles done by the AC nor an image coming to life...none of it has happened.



    Totally agree. We all agree it’s “soon”, but how soon? What makes more sense? Given what happened in 70AD, and at the Cross, “soon” could very well be within their life time, and in fact, much evidence supports this hypothesis. It’s an old view to, if not the oldest. I would argue the Apostles felt this way.
    They also thought the second coming would happen in their lives but it didn't. They had limited knowledge, and none as to when the second coming would happen. They only knew of various signs to look for that haven't appeared yet. Even the ECF's thought the RCC was the beast and the pope the AC but that didn't end up being correct. It "made sense" as you said earlier about things seeming to add up at the time but hindsight and being able to look back at history is always perfect vision whereas their vision so long ago was clouded by the events and situations of their time.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Is it antisemitic to hate the antichrist?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    This is why the Apostasy is so "successful". People can't tell the difference between the false Christ and the true Christ.
    Indeed. the antichrist hides in plain sight "in the midst".

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    This is why the Apostasy is so "successful". People can't tell the difference between the false Christ and the true Christ.
    Indeed. the antichrist hides in plain sight "in the midst".
    As the "thief" in the night, Christ is going to suddenly appear on the throne of Israel - not the antichrist.

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