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Thread: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

  1. #91

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    So let me see if I got this straight.

    God created Adam and Eve. Then Adam sinned and God said, go forth out of the garden and multiply. So Adam and Eve populated the earth. Then one day, the fallen angels decided to come down to earth, have sexual relations with women. Then the next thing you know, they knocked them up, had they had children together. But what in essence, they corrupted the gene pool. So when this all happened, all of flesh became corrupt. Now this left God no choice at all but to destroy all flesh. Except of course for Noah and his family who was totally unaffected by all of this.

    Let's reflect! All of this happened on the account of what those little nasty fallen demonic angels did? Gee, it looks like God would have seen this coming and prevented it from happening to his wonderful creation?

    That's the problem with fallen demonic angels, they go around messing up everything which God created.
    noah was perfect in his genes it doesnt say the same of his wife(s) and children. and couldnt you say the same about the garden of eden? seems like God could have prevented the father of lies from manipulating his ignorant creations. no doubt he saw that coming

  2. #92

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    I have already addressed that. See post #29.
    how come you didnt respond please i would like to understand your reasoning for believing the sons of God in Job are mere men. im very interested

  3. #93
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    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    Then allow me to address it in this manner. The LXX, of which there are many versions, is nothing more than a translation and as such, is subject to human error and human bias, as are all translations. When the translators substituted ἀγγέλων for ben-Elohim, they failed to translate the language of the text. The translation of ben-Elohim is sons of God, not angels. That is a failure of the translators to uphold the integrity of the original language of the text. Some translators of English versions, usually paraphrases versions, have done precisely the same thing. The Hebrew word for angel is Mal-ach and it never appears in any text associated with sons of God, NOT ONE!
    Yea this claim is false. The idea that the term Ben-Elohim never appears in any "text" as referring to Angels is a false one. Maybe you can argue it never appears in any biblical text but once more we have contemporary material which does indeed claim that the Ben- Elohim were in fact Angels. Which is why posts like yours in #9 is so misleading Contemporary material not assumptions (like Bene- Elohim refers to men) is the basis of our position. People like you claim that other sources should be ignored since they're not inspired. But if we are taking the bible to be a historical text which is what we're doing on the matter contemorary material should be admitted, and when it is you whole position just falls apart. No longer can you claim we're the ones arguing from assumptions.

  4. #94
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    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    So let me see if I got this straight.

    God created Adam and Eve. Then Adam sinned and God said, go forth out of the garden and multiply. So Adam and Eve populated the earth. Then one day, the fallen angels decided to come down to earth, have sexual relations with women. Then the next thing you know, they knocked them up, had they had children together. But what in essence, they corrupted the gene pool. So when this all happened, all of flesh became corrupt. Now this left God no choice at all but to destroy all flesh. Except of course for Noah and his family who was totally unaffected by all of this.

    Let's reflect! All of this happened on the account of what those little nasty fallen demonic angels did? Gee, it looks like God would have seen this coming and prevented it from happening to his wonderful creation?

    That's the problem with fallen demonic angels, they go around messing up everything which God created.
    Just to make sure we clear this up Satan wasn't involved in this rebellion or he would have been locked up in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. Otherwise, you're pretty spot on.

  5. #95
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    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Yea this claim is false. The idea that the term Ben-Elohim never appears in any "text" as referring to Angels is a false one. Maybe you can argue it never appears in any biblical text but once more we have contemporary material which does indeed claim that the Ben- Elohim were in fact Angels. Which is why posts like yours in #9 is so misleading Contemporary material not assumptions (like Bene- Elohim refers to men) is the basis of our position. People like you claim that other sources should be ignored since they're not inspired. But if we are taking the bible to be a historical text which is what we're doing on the matter contemorary material should be admitted, and when it is you whole position just falls apart. No longer can you claim we're the ones arguing from assumptions.
    You are completely misrepresenting what I said. I do not know if this was deliberate or merely an oversight. I never said that Ben-Elohim never appeared in any biblical text. What I said was that "The Hebrew word for angel is Mal-ach and it never appears in any text associated with sons of God - ben-Elohim, NOT ONE!" That is a true statement. As for the LXX, that was such a poorly rendered mss and so full of errors and mistranslations that it had to be repeatedly corrected over the centuries. In fact, in some cases, it was so poorly translated that entire books of the OT had to be virtually retranslated.

    You seem to be getting upset over this so I am simply going to let you ponder on this a while.

  6. #96
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    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    You are completely misrepresenting what I said. I do not know if this was deliberate or merely an oversight. I never said that Ben-Elohim never appeared in any biblical text. What I said was that "The Hebrew word for angel is Mal-ach and it never appears in any text associated with sons of God - ben-Elohim, NOT ONE!" That is a true statement. As for the LXX, that was such a poorly rendered mss and so full of errors and mistranslations that it had to be repeatedly corrected over the centuries. In fact, in some cases, it was so poorly translated that entire books of the OT had to be virtually retranslated.

    You seem to be getting upset over this so I am simply going to let you ponder on this a while.
    Not upset about anything... but enjoy your hiatus, not sure what i'm supposed to be pondering either. But to each his own..

  7. #97
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    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    seems like God could have prevented the father of lies from manipulating his ignorant creations. no doubt he saw that coming
    Adam was not manipulated by the serpent. He sinned willfully, knowing in advance, the commandant of God. The burden of fall of man is as a result of man. Not as a result of the father of lies interfering with mankind, by mating with their women and having offspring.

    The sin is on man, not demonic angels.

  8. #98
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    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus View Post
    Just to make sure we clear this up Satan wasn't involved in this rebellion or he would have been locked up in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. Otherwise, you're pretty spot on.
    Ohhhh no, of course not! Satan would never be apart of such an evil rebellion. I mean, Satan does have some morals. This is all on those fallen demonic angels who corrupted the gene pool. And they can never say, "the devil made me do it".

  9. #99

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Job 1
    6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

    Job 38
    7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    how is that a reference to Angels being sons of God? Satan appears with men before God to accuse them.

    “And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?”
    **Zechariah‬ *3:1-2‬ *KJV‬‬


    and the morning star again not. Reference to Angels....

    “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.”
    **Revelation‬ *2:26-28‬ *KJV‬‬


    I'm not thinking that's a promise to give us the Angel. Wouldn't really make sense.

    besides that , Angels are spirits and couldn't breed with humans.

    “But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
    **Hebrews‬ *1:13-14‬ *KJV‬‬

    further there in Hebrews sort of makes it further clear

    For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?”
    **Hebrews‬ *1:5‬ *KJV‬‬


    in other words Angels have no reference in scripture that they are children of God. But there are many referring to men as sons of God.

  10. #100

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Adam was not manipulated by the serpent. He sinned willfully, knowing in advance, the commandant of God. The burden of fall of man is as a result of man. Not as a result of the father of lies interfering with mankind, by mating with their women and having offspring.

    The sin is on man, not demonic angels.
    have you ever read the bible?

    “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
    **Revelation‬ *12:9‬ *KJV‬‬

    “Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

    And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

    And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done?

    And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”
    **Genesis‬ *3:1-6, 12-19‬ *KJV‬‬

    “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
    **1 John‬ *3:8‬ *KJV‬‬


    Satan exploited mans free will. God told Adam " you are free. To eat of any tree in the garden , but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you must not eat for you will surely die"

    along comes Satan, did God really say? .....she responds correctly, he replies with a lie , completely contrary " you will not surely die" then he further deceives them by making it seem as if God doesn't want them to have something that is good for them.

    The blame goes to Adam, only because he was given dominion over the earth. Definitely something Satan plotted and it shows how he works . He doesn't just say " let's all rebel against our creator" he comes as a friend telling them something they didn't know, something " God was deceiving them about " Pssss he sayssss with his forked tongue , you will not sssssurely die, God just doesnt want you to have thissssss fruit, it will make you as gods.....

    you can literally watch her thinking change she goes from afraid to eat or even touch the fruit because of what God had said, to now she knew that the fruit was good for her....sin is in fact the will of Satan, he used the first commandment to bring death to ma through Adam ....

  11. #101

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    Adam was God direct creations jesus was the 2nd adam. notice it does not say enos which was the son of God, who gave birth to seth which was the son of God. of course Adam is the Son of God he doesnt have any other father.

    it is not true that God has always considered men his son. this is false and i challenged anyone to find a scripture to justify it. it is a fact that men are children of God through adoption because of the covenant God made with Abraham and the covenant he made with jesus.

    also consider the lack of logic in your argument. if the sons of God were the first generation of mankind then so too were the daughters of men. so pretty much your saying the that the verse is saying "men and women from the first generation married and it produced giants"

    the daughter of men in the hebrew is literally daughters of adam so they are also desceneded from adam. so then what was the significance of this verse if we take your understanding of it?

    there's more than one scripture showing you that in the comment you replied to. You've already agreed that Adam was the son of God,

    here's what he says of the people of Israel

    “And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:”
    **Exodus‬ *4:22‬ *KJV‬‬


    here again is I guess one you missed in the comment you replied to

    “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.”
    **Psalms‬ *82:6‬ *KJV‬‬


    so you have Adam , to whom you agree. You have Israel when they were about to be delivered from Egypt called his son his firstborn, you have the psalm which is also quoted by Jesus in the gospel saying " you are all children of the most high.


    but where's even one scripture saying Angels are Gods sons? Consider the first chapter of Hebrews

    For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”
    **Hebrews‬ *1:5-8‬ *KJV‬‬


    Angels are spirits they don't breed with flesh. And they aren't God, so they can't speak forth and create. The Angels clearly there according to Hebrews, are ministering spirits.

    “But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
    **Hebrews‬ *1:13-14‬ *KJV‬‬


    I'm. It sure people are recognizing, the battle is for the hearts of man , because God gave an,one the dominion on earth from the beginning. Satan works through our minds and hearts like God does, based on what we choose to believe whether good of God, or evil of Satan. Satan can't do anything unless he accomplishes rule of a mind or heart. That's why he went straight for mankind in the beginning. Because God gave dominion to us, not to the Angels, but man.

    in those beginning generations you have one who never even died, you have also Noah who is declared perfect, and you have lives that lasted from 600-900 years. After the flood you have and years cut to 120. All this long before the mosaic law ever came.


    Jesus is about reconciling man and God. In the beginning man was already in his presence dwelt in Eden with him, had a relationship with God. Ruled creation at Gods side we were made in his image and likeness.....


    but there's not a single reference to Angels as his children. Sorry we disagree it's just a factor scripture.

  12. #102

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    Adam was God direct creations jesus was the 2nd adam. notice it does not say enos which was the son of God, who gave birth to seth which was the son of God. of course Adam is the Son of God he doesnt have any other father.

    it is not true that God has always considered men his son. this is false and i challenged anyone to find a scripture to justify it. it is a fact that men are children of God through adoption because of the covenant God made with Abraham and the covenant he made with jesus.

    also consider the lack of logic in your argument. if the sons of God were the first generation of mankind then so too were the daughters of men. so pretty much your saying the that the verse is saying "men and women from the first generation married and it produced giants"

    the daughter of men in the hebrew is literally daughters of adam so they are also desceneded from adam. so then what was the significance of this verse if we take your understanding of it?

    what makes us his children is his name, we have that in the gospel

    “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
    **John‬ *1:12‬ *KJV‬‬


    now note

    “And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.”
    **Genesis‬ *4:26‬ *KJV‬‬


    all men aren't children of God sadly, Satan has his children also. Mankind are Gods only children, through his name. Now notice that after the law has come, no one is given his name u til Jesus came declaring it.


    there was existence before the flood, before the mosaic law was given and look how different it is afterwards. Men. Go from living nearly a thousand years, to living 120 years, men are put under the mosaic law, not allowed to speak Gods name, never even really could pronounce the name in thier language. Just are told " I am that I am" weren't allowed to speak it anyhow.

    all men aren't Gods children those who believe sincerely are whether they serve Gods will, or satans....

    “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
    **1 John‬ *3:10‬ *KJV‬‬

    “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

    He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
    **John‬ *8:44‬ *KJV‬‬


    it's always been mans place to be Gods children it's why he was so frustrated that they si ply would not hear consider why he would have sent this word to man

    How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

    They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.”
    **Psalms‬ *82:2-7‬ *KJV‬‬


    seems as if man is created to be children of God, and we blew it by the time of Noah, having been corrupted by the knowledge of evil, and Jesus is about " redemption" " reconciliation" to the things in the beginning. A relationship with God the father apart from the law over sin, but free in the gospel of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.

  13. #103
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    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    have you ever read the bible?

    have you ever read Timothy?
    1 Timothy 2:14
    And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    have you ever read Romans?
    Romans 5
    12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,
    Romans 5:14
    14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,

    So my question to you is; have you ever read the bible?
    The burden of the transgression was on Adam and not Eve. Adam transgressed willing, while Eve was deceived by the serpent. Being deceived, Eve was in the transgression.

    Genesis 3
    16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

  14. #104

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by grogers View Post
    You are completely misrepresenting what I said. I do not know if this was deliberate or merely an oversight. I never said that Ben-Elohim never appeared in any biblical text. What I said was that "The Hebrew word for angel is Mal-ach and it never appears in any text associated with sons of God - ben-Elohim, NOT ONE!" That is a true statement. As for the LXX, that was such a poorly rendered mss and so full of errors and mistranslations that it had to be repeatedly corrected over the centuries. In fact, in some cases, it was so poorly translated that entire books of the OT had to be virtually retranslated.

    You seem to be getting upset over this so I am simply going to let you ponder on this a while.

    how come you never answered my question? do you not have a response?

  15. #105

    Re: Who were The Sons of God in genesis 6?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Adam was not manipulated by the serpent. He sinned willfully, knowing in advance, the commandant of God. The burden of fall of man is as a result of man. Not as a result of the father of lies interfering with mankind, by mating with their women and having offspring.

    The sin is on man, not demonic angels.
    Eve was deceived by the serpent but he ate the fruit because even had so they both were manipulated by the serpent fore if it had not been for the serpent then they would not have eaten the fruit

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